McKinsey to Pay 650M To Defer Prosecution in Purdue Pharma Case

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You have become a legal know-it-all now.  They had to pay this straight to the DOJ to avoid further consequences.  Well, actually over a period of five years.

Purdue already gave them the playbook on how to skate (from the same article):

Quote

Three Purdue executives pleaded guilty to misbranding charges in 2007 and the company agreed to pay a fine. The company pleaded guilty to criminal charges in 2020 and agreed to $8.3 billion in penalties and forfeitures — most of which will be waived as long as it executes a settlement through bankruptcy court that is still in the works.

Spare me.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

24 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Purdue already gave them the playbook on how to skate (from the same article):

Spare me.

McKinsey ain't filing for bankruptcy.  Unlike most of Trump world and the Sacklers, McKinsey is trying to protect their reputation.

The money Purdue Pharma would have paid to DOJ before bankruptcy will be folded into the settlement, which is probably a better place for it than DOJ.

Edited December 14 by TwiceHorn

[Anastasis 23716]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Approval or approval of the non-addictive label? 

The OG label included wording that suggested the contin formulation was associated with lower abuse potential. Which was total bullshit, esp once you took one of those high dose tablets and crushed it to destroy the delivery mechanism. You went from having oxycodone tablets with 5-10mg of oxy to tablets with 80mg and eventually 160mg floating the market and kids starting dying. 

3 hours ago, Parliament said:

Crush it fine and snort it.

Fun fact, it was one of the pharmacy professors at UT that formulated the v2 delivery system that actually addressed this problem. Wonder how much UT pocketed off that patent.  

 

[Rex Kramer 1535]

8 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

This is right when I was doing my orthopedic surgery residency. Between fractures and big surgeries, our specialty writes. a ton of appropriate opiate prescriptions. You learned pretty quick that Tylenol with codeine and low-dose hydrocodone work for most people for most things. And you learn that oxycodone is potential fucking trouble. Kids these days would say it hits different. People asking for Percs was always a big red flag

 

 

 

Then all of a sudden you have all these reps coming into clinic telling you it’s not the Percocet that is the problem, it’s the immediate release. If you give them a slow steady dose over 12 to 24 hours, nobody gets addicted. All of us laughed at that bullshit, but a fuck ton of primary care doctors started prescribing this shit and pretty soon their patients were crushing them and snorting them. These were normal fucking people with garden variety ailments and they wind up losing their jobs and ending up buying heroin off the street. 
 

Hanging is too good for these fucks

How hot were the reps, tho?

[scottsins 2046]

“Side effects include … anal fissures, nazi sympathies, and random violent bleeding from the urethra”

Sounds like a Friday night with South Austin’s mom.

[boilerhorn 1621]

16 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 

Great cut.

Lyrics, for the unitiated.

Oh yeah, oh, no, the train, the train
Every two or three years the train kill somebody
Every two or three years, yeah
Everybody knows about the train, okay?
You hear it constantly
You... I, I think the train is a way to find your way out of this life
If you get hit by it

 

A couple of kids got hit by a Union Pacific train
Carrying sheet metal and household appliances
Through the pouring rain
They were planning on getting married after graduation
Had a little baby girl, trouble came and shut it down
Things like that ain't supposed to happen

 

In this quiet town
Families are tight
Good people, they still don't deadbolt their doors at night
In this quiet town

 

When we first heard opioid stories
They were always in whispering tones
Now banners of sorrow mark the front steps of childhood homes
Parents wept through daddy's girl eulogies
And merit badge milestones with their daughters and sons
Laying there lifeless in their suits and gowns
Somebody's been keepin' secrets

 

In this quiet town
They know how to live
Good people who lean on Jesus
They're quick to forgive
In this quiet town

 

Now whenever I'm near the town
I'll find some reason to give
And I will walk with the dead and the living where I used to live
And every time I see my parents in the prime of their lives
Offering their son the kind of love he could never put down
Part of me is still that stainless kid, lucky

 

In this quiet town
Salt of the land
Hard-working people, if you're in trouble
They'll lend you a hand
Here in this quiet town

 

The first crop of hay is up
School let out and the sun beats down
Smoke billows from a Sunday train
That cries away from a quiet town

 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

McKinsey ain't filing for bankruptcy.  Unlike most of Trump world and the Sacklers, McKinsey is trying to protect their reputation.

The money Purdue Pharma would have paid to DOJ before bankruptcy will be folded into the settlement, which is probably a better place for it than DOJ.

Does kind of raise the issue, where do criminal fines and penalties go?  Those nominated restitution do go to victims, and often are paid directly to the victims, either by the defendant or the registry of the court.  Where fines and forfeitures go is somewhat a mystery.  The DOJ professionals/employees are a sunk cost, but some of it may well go to supplementing their budget, while some is also paid to victims and quasi-victims, if indirectly, as in funding of programs for the benefit of victims, etc.

Whereas settlements/judgments in a civil context, including bankruptcy, go to the claimants after any costs and attorneys fees, probably 40% or thereabouts.

[C-Man 27777]

18 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Annual sales. Oxycontin's approval by the FDA was a clear example of regulatory capture and the obvious problem with a revolving door between industry and the FDA. Purdue wrote the fucking approval letter in a hotel room with the FDA reviewer and without a compliance officer present. The FDA does a lot of really good work, but man when they shit the bed they really shit the bed. 

 

18 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Approval or approval of the non-addictive label?  As I recall, it took them years to get the label approved after an all out assault on FDA.  Not an ideal outcome by any means, but not exactly a rubber stamp, either.

Can’t remember if it was in Dopesick or The Pharmacist but at least one (or more) high-ranking FDA folks went to work for Purdue at some point. The Sackler family can rot in eternal hell as far as I’m concerned.

I’m convinced one of my dear friends was a casualty of Purdue’s bullshit. Had a shoulder surgery go completely sideways, had MRSA and then FF 4-5 years he’s dead of a heroin overdose. None of us had any fucking clue he was shooting smack. Overdose. Dead. Successful attorney in Houston, coached all three of his kids’ soccer teams and was by-all-appearances a model father. RIP, Kevin.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

 

Can’t remember if it was in Dopesick or The Pharmacist but at least one (or more) high-ranking FDA folks went to work for Purdue at some point. The Sackler family can rot in eternal hell as far as I’m concerned.

I’m convinced one of my dear friends was a casualty of Purdue’s bullshit. Had a shoulder surgery go completely sideways, had MRSA and then FF 4-5 years he’s dead of a heroin overdose. None of us had any fucking clue he was shooting smack. Overdose. Dead. Successful attorney in Houston, coached all three of his kids’ soccer teams and was by-all-appearances a model father. RIP, Kevin.

That's right and I confirmed that that was pretty accurate.  They did have to work on the guy for a long time, though, to get the approval.  And, he didn't land at Purdue immediately after leaving FDA.

Edited December 14 by TwiceHorn

[austingirl 2194]

On 12/13/2024 at 7:14 PM, Sbbruin said:

I've been prescribed opioids several times in the last few years.  I've always really tried to slow play their use.  I have a somewhat addictive personality.  Been able to avoid any abuse.  Been sitting on 2 half filled bottle- one of hydrocodone and one of Percocet, and have touched them in months.  But now that I think about it, it is Friday...

Lots of pharmacies are take-back locations or have in-home disposal products, if you want to safely get rid of the extra.

When I gave birth in 2008 there were complications and afterwards, a nurse gave me a Percocet. I remember thinking, once it hit, that I now completely understood how people got addicted. I wanted to float like that forever. I've never taken it since, nor have I been offered it. Several years later I was in an accident and given fentanyl before they debrided some wounds and it felt like it didn't do shit compared to the Percocet.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2475]

Fentanyl is used a lot by EMS for those in pain  due to traumatic injuries. 

[F250 29195]

1 hour ago, austingirl said:

Lots of pharmacies are take-back locations or have in-home disposal products, if you want to safely get rid of the extra.

When I gave birth in 2008 there were complications and afterwards, a nurse gave me a Percocet. I remember thinking, once it hit, that I now completely understood how people got addicted. I wanted to float like that forever. I've never taken it since, nor have I been offered it. Several years later I was in an accident and given fentanyl before they debrided some wounds and it felt like it didn't do shit compared to the Percocet.

I was given morphine after a surgery and yeah, that shit was heavenly. It felt like floating through a nexus of bliss. At one point, I drifted off to sleep and had a vivid dream that I was an anthropomorphic cartoon slice of pizza and it was awesome.

I've never had it since but damn that stuff was amazing and I can see why people develop opioid addictions.

[Clintonaldo 2618]

On 12/13/2024 at 4:43 PM, Sawbonz said:

This is right when I was doing my orthopedic surgery residency. Between fractures and big surgeries, our specialty writes. a ton of appropriate opiate prescriptions. You learned pretty quick that Tylenol with codeine and low-dose hydrocodone work for most people for most things. And you learn that oxycodone is potential fucking trouble. Kids these days would say it hits different. People asking for Percs was always a big red flag

 

 

 

Then all of a sudden you have all these reps coming into clinic telling you it’s not the Percocet that is the problem, it’s the immediate release. If you give them a slow steady dose over 12 to 24 hours, nobody gets addicted. All of us laughed at that bullshit, but a fuck ton of primary care doctors started prescribing this shit and pretty soon their patients were crushing them and snorting them. These were normal fucking people with garden variety ailments and they wind up losing their jobs and ending up buying heroin off the street. 
 

Hanging is too good for these fucks

I’ve told this in another thread but my father had a motorcycle wreck and was prescribed OxyContin for pain after. Well, 6 years and $300,000 spent and a divorce later he ends up shooting hisself because he felt like he was out of options but all that did was give him a traumatic brain injury and blind him so he got to spend another 6 years in hell at the worsts nursing homes you can imagine. 
 

I’ve been cheated out of so much due to that drug. My son only got to meet my dad one time when he was 6 months old. Luckily my dad passed away late last year. 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

19 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

I’ve told this in another thread but my father had a motorcycle wreck and was prescribed OxyContin for pain after. Well, 6 years and $300,000 spent and a divorce later he ends up shooting hisself because he felt like he was out of options but all that did was give him a traumatic brain injury and blind him so he got to spend another 6 years in hell at the worsts nursing homes you can imagine. 
 

I’ve been cheated out of so much due to that drug. My son only got to meet my dad one time when he was 6 months old. Luckily my dad passed away late last year. 

Didn't know the oxy connection, but was aware of the saga of your father.  Condolences, again.  Having something to blame probably makes it that much worse.

[Clintonaldo 2618]

22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Didn't know the oxy connection, but was aware of the saga of your father.  Condolences, again.  Having something to blame probably makes it that much worse.

As I get older (44 now) I am having more sympathy for my dad and realize it’s not all his fault. He was a great dad until he couldn’t be. He would have been a phenomenal grandfather in a different life. I try not to get angry because it is just wasted energy at this point. 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

6 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

As I get older (44 now) I am having more sympathy for my dad and realize it’s not all his fault. He was a great dad until he couldn’t be. He would have been a phenomenal grandfather in a different life. I try not to get angry because it is just wasted energy at this point. 

I was thinking that the opioid crisis may have helped change the thinking about addiction some.  Unlike more "voluntary" cases like drinking or recreational drugging, the addict gets exposed to something they're highly vulnerable to through little fault of their own.

Because it's that exposure, voluntary or otherwise, that sets the addict off on that path.  And even in "voluntary" cases, the addict doesn't do anything that most everyone else does (engage in some drinking or drugging).

[Clintonaldo 2618]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I was thinking that the opioid crisis may have helped change the thinking about addiction some.  Unlike more "voluntary" cases like drinking or recreational drugging, the addict gets exposed to something they're highly vulnerable to through little fault of their own.

Because it's that exposure, voluntary or otherwise, that sets the addict off on that path.  And even in "voluntary" cases, the addict doesn't do anything that most everyone else does (engage in some drinking or drugging).

You are absolutely correct and the Alcoholic thread here is also amazing for me and cathartic. 

[956 Worldwide 35589]

On 12/13/2024 at 9:54 PM, TwiceHorn said:

McKinsey ain't filing for bankruptcy.  Unlike most of Trump world and the Sacklers, McKinsey is trying to protect their reputation.

The money Purdue Pharma would have paid to DOJ before bankruptcy will be folded into the settlement, which is probably a better place for it than DOJ.

I audibly chortled at this line.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

42 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I audibly chortled at this line.

I said trying.  While a great number of us think McKinsey and their ilk may be the greatest financial/business charlatans of their time, the fact remains that they are credible among the credulous.

They are trying to avoid the fate of Arthur Andersen, another set of charlatans, whose Enron conviction was actually reversed.

Edited December 15 by TwiceHorn

[Captainant 28506]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

They are trying to avoid the fate of Arthur Andersen, another set of charlatans, whose Enron conviction was actually reversed.

What fate? Creating one of the largest and most successful business consulting firms that continues to propagate their toxic business plans?

And besides, Enron is BACK baby! They've got billboards up off WB I-10 coming out of downtown Houston. Who gives a shit about fraud these days, honestly

[Parliament 14593]

9 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Fentanyl is used a lot by EMS for those in pain  due to traumatic injuries. 

And it's wonderful.  Doesn't make the pain go away.  Makes you not CARE about the pain.  Scary stuff.  Do not recommend.

[956 Worldwide 35589]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I said trying.  While a great number of us think McKinsey and their ilk may be the greatest financial/business charlatans of their time, the fact remains that they are credible among the credulous.

They are trying to avoid the fate of Arthur Andersen, another set of charlatans, whose Enron conviction was actually reversed.

Its just that there’s no in-between, you either get a PowerPoint made by a 24 year old or something comically immoral like “sure, we will help you find the people most likely to get addicted to smack and sell them Oxy.”  Only consulting can deliver that type of bland villainy. 

[austingirl 2194]

11 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Fentanyl is used a lot by EMS for those in pain  due to traumatic injuries. 

Yeah, I understand - I meant that I was expecting it to pack a lot more punch than it did. 

[TwiceHorn 32071]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Its just that there’s no in-between, you either get a PowerPoint made by a 24 year old or something comically immoral like “sure, we will help you find the people most likely to get addicted to smack and sell them Oxy.”  Only consulting can deliver that type of bland villainy. 

Shit, my Dad told me about McKinsey 40 years ago.  They came to his Fortune 500 company, where he was a one-man public-relations department, to tell upper management pretty much exactly what he'd been telling them for the past 20 years.

Still, like Andersen, a criminal conviction would destroy the money machine.

[Vegas64 713]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:59 AM, TwiceHorn said:

While a great number of us think McKinsey and their ilk may be the greatest financial/business charlatans of their time, the fact remains that they are credible among the credulous.

Look, I agree with everyone on this thread, but this is a ridiculous statement. McKinsey as a strategic and management consulting firm is amazingly effective and highly credible...which is part and parcel why they got in this immoral hot water as they made opiates explode and caused such irreparable harm. Because when you hire them they generally do a great job at whatever you are struggling to do (e.g. efficiencies, cost-takeout, GTM, growth, optimizing processes, etc.).

Edited Monday at 04:22 PM by Vegas64

[Vegas64 713]

On 12/15/2024 at 8:12 AM, Captainant said:

What fate? Creating one of the largest and most successful business consulting firms that continues to propagate their toxic business plans?

Full disclosure, I've worked for Accenture. So what's the beef there? What's toxic about implementing software programs? We weren't some major strategy setter for anyone.

Edited Monday at 04:25 PM by Vegas64

[Captainant 28506]

3 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Full disclosure, I've worked for Accenture. So what's the beef there? What's toxic about implementing software programs? We weren't some major strategy setter for anyone.

I've handled operations for several projects handed over to my customers from ACN, and it's always been integration hell with zero documentation and very poor code quality. And then on top of that, the customer got rid of most of their engineering/dev staff because "it's cheaper to contract out projects and we got a great rate from them".

The majority of interactions I've been a part of have ended with either ACN leaving before the project finishes, or the customer nearly completely scrapping the ACN work and redoing it themselves. There have been successful projects, and ACN does have some heavy hitters, but they're the exception more than the rule from my first-hand experience over the last decade or so.

 

My point being - their association with Arthur Anderson did not harm their reputation or ability to get customers one bit. And my customers that have been burned before by them always keep reaching for them again and again and get similar results every time

[Vegas64 713]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

I've handled operations for several projects handed over to my customers from ACN, and it's always been integration hell with zero documentation and very poor code quality. And then on top of that, the customer got rid of most of their engineering/dev staff because "it's cheaper to contract out projects and we got a great rate from them".

The majority of interactions I've been a part of have ended with either ACN leaving before the project finishes, or the customer nearly completely scrapping the ACN work and redoing it themselves. There have been successful projects, and ACN does have some heavy hitters, but they're the exception more than the rule from my first-hand experience over the last decade or so.

 

My point being - their association with Arthur Anderson did not harm their reputation or ability to get customers one bit. And my customers that have been burned before by them always keep reaching for them again and again and get similar results every time

Well, in the interest of avoiding a squabble, I'll address the AA point. I didn't even realize ACN was the offshoot of AA until like the third interview. I imagine most of the dumb public has zero idea. 

[royiv 9771]

22 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The majority of interactions I've been a part of have ended with either ACN leaving before the project finishes, or the customer nearly completely scrapping the ACN work and redoing it themselves. 

This is my experience with them at the last company I worked at. Tens of millions were spent before the company finally fired them, scrapped everything they did and redid the mission critical stuff themselves. 

[Tuco 5093]

On 12/15/2024 at 6:28 AM, Parliament said:

And it's wonderful.  Doesn't make the pain go away.  Makes you not CARE about the pain.  Scary stuff.  Do not recommend.

My stepdad had a myriad of health issues in his late 80s, including cancer and a hernia.  The cancer was the bigger concern, but the hernia was more painful, but he was too frail for them to operate on him to fix it.  The dude was in agony despite several different rounds of pain killers.  I think the combo of the pain killers and pain kept him pretty delusional through this period, which may have been a blessing.  Finally they gave him a Fentanyl patch, and it was miraculous.  It blocked the pain and we got our dad back, for a couple of years at least until he passed.  

On the flip side, my cousin lost her 21 year old son to an OD, heroin likely laced with fentanyl.   

[Brisketexan 106873]

12 minutes ago, royiv said:

This is my experience with them at the last company I worked at. Tens of millions were spent before the company finally fired them, scrapped everything they did and redid the mission critical stuff themselves. 

"I should start a bullshit consulting company"

[BabaYaga 15623]

On 12/14/2024 at 11:25 AM, C-Man said:

Can’t remember if it was in Dopesick or The Pharmacist but at least one (or more) high-ranking FDA folks went to work for Purdue at some point.

They all do - there's a revolving door between big pharma and the FDA.  The same FDA who's budget - more than half comes directly from the same big pharma they supposedly have oversight over.  It's fucked.  

[BabaYaga 15623]

17 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My stepdad had a myriad of health issues in his late 80s, including cancer and a hernia.  The cancer was the bigger concern, but the hernia was more painful, but he was too frail for them to operate on him to fix it.  The dude was in agony despite several different rounds of pain killers.  I think the combo of the pain killers and pain kept him pretty delusional through this period, which may have been a blessing.  Finally they gave him a Fentanyl patch, and it was miraculous.  It blocked the pain and we got our dad back, for a couple of years at least until he passed.  

On the flip side, my cousin lost her 21 year old son to an OD, heroin likely laced with fentanyl.   

Fentanyl in measured doses, sure.  Unregulated doses cooked up in someone's basement, not so much.  I know guys that did tours overseas thot got wounded and got the magic fentanyl lollipop of awesomeness.  

[Brisketexan 106873]

28 minutes ago, Tuco said:

My stepdad had a myriad of health issues in his late 80s, including cancer and a hernia.  The cancer was the bigger concern, but the hernia was more painful, but he was too frail for them to operate on him to fix it.  The dude was in agony despite several different rounds of pain killers.  I think the combo of the pain killers and pain kept him pretty delusional through this period, which may have been a blessing.  Finally they gave him a Fentanyl patch, and it was miraculous.  It blocked the pain and we got our dad back, for a couple of years at least until he passed.  

On the flip side, my cousin lost her 21 year old son to an OD, heroin likely laced with fentanyl.   

Coming out of surgery a coupla years ago, I had a post-anesthesia headache that was BRUTAL.   They gave me some Fentanyl for it.  It might as well have been an M&M.  It did NOTHING for my pain.  Like, nada.  Your mileage may vary.

[BabaYaga 15623]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Coming out of surgery a coupla years ago, I had a post-anesthesia headache that was BRUTAL.   They gave me some Fentanyl for it.  It might as well have been an M&M.  It did NOTHING for my pain.  Like, nada.  Your mileage may vary.

Isn't that the reason why anesthesiologists have some of the highest malpractice premiums in the business?  The biodiversity of people is just that, and everyone seems to react a little different.  Then there are the horror stories of people that otherwise are seemingly healthy just up and dying on the operating table due to adverse reactions to the anesthesia.  

[HRSchenker 2340]

On 12/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, royiv said:

Pharma ads are a whole industry unto itself. It’s completely bizarre.

Despite being in the industry I don't understand why prescription drugs are advertised on TV as if physicians don't do continuing education on new and upcoming drugs. I can watch a Ford commercial and buy a Ford truck. I can watch a Chipotle commercial and buy a burrito. I can watch a Verzenio commercial but I can't buy it without a physician's order. Do you really want an oncologist to say to your wife "hey I know you have a high risk early detected breast cancer and I saw this commercial with a dancing lady on it that treats your condition, you wanna try it?" I wouldn't lol

[Brisketexan 106873]

15 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Isn't that the reason why anesthesiologists have some of the highest malpractice premiums in the business?  The biodiversity of people is just that, and everyone seems to react a little different.  Then there are the horror stories of people that otherwise are seemingly healthy just up and dying on the operating table due to adverse reactions to the anesthesia.  

I think I was fine under anesthesia (that is, my body was fine, no adverse reaction to any major functions).  It just gave me a fucking hangover like a mofo.  And the hangover cure of Fentanyl did jack shit (whereas I know that vicodin is like magic for me -- I've taken a leftover pill for a stubborn migraine, and a badly tweaked muscle, and it helped tremendously with both).  But then, my wife has an allergic reaction to vicodin and codeine, and pukes.  So, yeah, everyone is a bit different.

[BabaYaga 15623]

17 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Despite being in the industry I don't understand why prescription drugs are advertised on TV as if physicians don't do continuing education on new and upcoming drugs. I can watch a Ford commercial and buy a Ford truck. I can watch a Chipotle commercial and buy a burrito. I can watch a Verzenio commercial but I can't buy it without a physician's order. Do you really want an oncologist to say to your wife "hey I know you have a high risk early detected breast cancer and I saw this commercial with a dancing lady on it that treats your condition, you wanna try it?" I wouldn't lol

Because reasons.  It's fucked.  They have so much influence because of the tens of billions in yearly ad dollars they dole out.  Someone in power could cut that cord tomorrow, but every media outlet in the country would be screaming bloody murder.

[bolverk 30313]

41 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

Despite being in the industry I don't understand why prescription drugs are advertised on TV as if physicians don't do continuing education on new and upcoming drugs. I can watch a Ford commercial and buy a Ford truck. I can watch a Chipotle commercial and buy a burrito. I can watch a Verzenio commercial but I can't buy it without a physician's order. Do you really want an oncologist to say to your wife "hey I know you have a high risk early detected breast cancer and I saw this commercial with a dancing lady on it that treats your condition, you wanna try it?" I wouldn't lol

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think drug commercials were a thing until the 1990s. At least, I don't think drugs that required a prescription were allowed to be advertised until then. Who fucking decided it was a good idea and pushed it on us?

I want someone to blame.

[TwiceHorn 32071]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

I've handled operations for several projects handed over to my customers from ACN, and it's always been integration hell with zero documentation and very poor code quality. And then on top of that, the customer got rid of most of their engineering/dev staff because "it's cheaper to contract out projects and we got a great rate from them".

The majority of interactions I've been a part of have ended with either ACN leaving before the project finishes, or the customer nearly completely scrapping the ACN work and redoing it themselves. There have been successful projects, and ACN does have some heavy hitters, but they're the exception more than the rule from my first-hand experience over the last decade or so.

 

My point being - their association with Arthur Anderson did not harm their reputation or ability to get customers one bit. And my customers that have been burned before by them always keep reaching for them again and again and get similar results every time

I have had some similar experiences from clients on pure software projects from AC/Accenture.  I almost went to work for them after undergrad.

On the plus side, two friends went to work for AC as engineers and their projects are not pure software, but manufacturing and OR-related along with software to implement their recommendations.  They have done very well for themselves and I think their clients.

That said, their billing structures and practices make big law blush.  And that seems to be true across the consulting-verse.

[Captainant 28506]

I guess this is the Purdue Opiod thread now

Giant Companies Took Secret Payments to Allow Free Flow of Opioids Drugmakers including Purdue Pharma paid pharmacy benefit managers not to restrict painkiller prescriptions, a New York Times investigation found.

 

Quote

In 2017, the drug industry middleman Express Scripts announced that it was taking decisive steps to curb abuse of the prescription painkillers that had fueled America’s overdose crisis. The company said it was “putting the brakes on the opioid epidemic” by making it harder to get potentially dangerous amounts of the drugs.

The announcement, which came after pressure from federal health regulators, was followed by similar declarations from the other two companies that control access to prescription drugs for most Americans.

The self-congratulatory statements, however, didn’t address an important question: Why hadn’t the middlemen, known as pharmacy benefit managers, acted sooner to address a crisis that had been building for decades?

One reason, a New York Times investigation found: Drugmakers had been paying them not to.

For years, the benefit managers, or P.B.M.s, took payments from opioid manufacturers, including Purdue Pharma, in return for not restricting the flow of pills. As tens of thousands of Americans overdosed and died from prescription painkillers, the middlemen collected billions of dollars in payments.

 

The details of these backroom deals — laid out in hundreds of documents, some previously confidential, reviewed by The Times — expose a mostly untold chapter of the opioid epidemic and provide a rare look at the modus operandi of the companies at the heart of the prescription drug supply chain.

The P.B.M.s exert extraordinary control over what drugs people can receive and at what price. The three dominant companies — Express Scripts, CVS Caremark and Optum Rx — oversee prescriptions for more than 200 million people and are part of health care conglomerates that sit near the top of the Fortune 500 list.

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19453]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Express Scripts, CVS Caremark and Optum Rx — oversee prescriptions for more than 200 million people

200 million people are on some sort of prescription.  That is fucked up.

I guess I'm lucky that I haven't had a prescription in God knows how long.  It's probably been at least 15 years.

[Deej 77803]

On 12/13/2024 at 5:26 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Where else am I going to hear about he latest drugs that can potentially cause nausea, blindness, schizophrenia, hives, and shitting out my lower intestine.

I've got just the taco truck for you up on North Lamar. 

[Brisketexan 106873]

15 minutes ago, Deej said:

I've got just the taco truck for you up on North Lamar. 

Well?  Name?