Film Study Why we struggle running vs Georgia

[Thatguy 9269]

 Figured it was time to take a look at why we are struggling running vs Georgia. There are many reasons. Sometimes we just aren't physical enough and don't block through the whistle. We turn guys loose too early allowing them to get back in the play. Sometimes the bunch sets don't help as they bring too many defenders close to the ball that wouldn't otherwise be there. However, most of the time it's just simply players losing 1v1 battles or just missing their assignment not Georgia stacking the box to take away the run like SOME posters like to believe.

 

Below we are running our signature OZ. GEORGIA IS IN NICKEL DESPITE US HAVING TWO TIGHT ENDS ON THE FIELD(12 personnel). This is where Sarkisian's stubbornness is bare ass naked for all to see. We should spread Georgia out an run on them like other teams do. But no we make the distance shorter for them to get to the LOZ. Some of you have heard me say you cannot beat Georgia by playing in a phone booth. This play is an example of that. At the snap Juan Davis(81) come across the formation to cut off backside pursuit freeing Helm up to climb to the backside LB. The line is dancing to left. Majors climbs to the second level to find work. That would make for a nice hole but Conner gets whipped immediately and Wisner has to move on. The edge would've looked pretty good but Golden runs right past the nickel. Wisner sees it, cuts it up, and just tries to get what he can.    

 

 

[DFW Horn 6637]

Asking Conner to base-hook a DL playing outside shade in the B gap is a fool's errand.

He doesn't have the footwork for that.

[Thatguy 9269]

Again, Sark trots out 3 backs. Watch all the things that happen here. We fake the jet sweep with Blue. Gibson fires across the formation to handle the backside DE and whiffs, only serving to take himself out. We pull Conner and Majors. Majors has his eyes in the wrong place and runs right past the gap where the LB is. Had he seen that this play could pop for a solid gain. Block inside out.

 

 

 

 

[Thatguy 9269]

4 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

Asking Conner to base-hook a DL playing outside shade in the B gap is a fool's errand.

He doesn't have the footwork for that.

agreed and again it doesn't show up until he is across the los from Georgia.

Edited 17 hours ago by Thatguy

[Dewey 3324]

Because Kirby has a lot of looks for you, enough for two games. Changes a lot up, who's coming,  who's not. Freak athletes to go with it. 

Sark has got to figure some things out. So far just wishful thinking on his part. 

[Zeus 6747]

6 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Again, Sark trots out 3 backs. Watch all the things that happen here. We fake the jet sweep with Blue. Gibson fires across the formation to handle the backside DE and whiffs, only serving to take himself out. We pull Conner and Majors. Majors has his eyes in the wrong place and runs right past the gap where the LB is. Had he seen that this play could pop for a solid gain. Block inside out.

 

 

 

 

Hey I’d rather Sark trot out 3 running backs to run it than Mensa spread out and run QB Power over and over. 
 

We need to work in pistol more. The running back can get more momentum forward and the ball gets to the qb then the RB slightly faster. 

[Thatguy 9269]

 

This one is pretty easy. Conner gets pushed in the backfield on a zone play forcing the back to cut it up and get tacked at the line. Play was dead on arrival.

 

 

 

 

[Zeus 6747]

3 minutes ago, Dewey said:

Because Kirby has a lot of looks for you, enough for two games. Changes a lot up, who's coming,  who's not. Freak athletes to go with it. 

Sark has got to figure some things out. So far just wishful thinking on his part. 

Yeah the counter to complex shifting and blitzing is to run more simple zone and duo type shit where the linemen can just get it and RB hit the hole quick. 
 

Less play action and more quick hitters passing. 

[Zeus 6747]

4 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 

This one is pretty easy. Conner gets pushed in the backfield on a zone play forcing the back to cut it up and get tacked at the line. Play was dead on arrival.

 

 

 

 

Not sure Blue hit the right hole or it just wasn’t there. Play was developing too slow, the lead blocker runs though fine. 

[Had Enough 2107]

28 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

28 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 Figured it was time to take a look at why we are struggling running vs Georgia. There are many reasons. Sometimes we just aren't physical enough and don't block through the whistle. We turn guys loose too early allowing them to get back in the play. Sometimes the bunch sets don't help as they bring too many defenders close to the ball that wouldn't otherwise be there. However, most of the time it's just simply players losing 1v1 battles or just missing their assignment not Georgia stacking the box to take away the run like SOME posters like to believe.

 

Below we are running our signature OZ. GEORGIA IS IN NICKEL DESPITE US HAVING TWO TIGHT ENDS ON THE FIELD(12 personnel). 

What you call Nickel I call OLB.

When we’re in on defense, do we not run Nickel against that same package?

Edited 17 hours ago by Had Enough

[Thatguy 9269]

See how much better we look running out of 11 personnel? We actually have a little room to operate. Helm doesn't win his blocking battle. Hopefully we aren't teaching the receiver to run past the corner and block the dude downfield who is less of a threat. But who am I. This is a 4 more yard run if we block the corner instead.

[Thatguy 9269]

4 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

What you call Nickel I call OLB.

When we’re in on defense, do we not run Nickel against that same package?

We do and we do it for the same reasons Georgia does. Because we can handle the opposition's run game as a secondary concern because our main concern is your passing game. That's why we are the number one pass defense in the country. Georgia is doing the same. Playing our running game as a secondary concern. They are concerned with Ewers and Sark's passing game first.

[Thatguy 9269]

Look at how Georgia is lined up and we are in 12 personnel. They know that no matter how many blockers we have they are going to win some 1v1's and so no need to walk safeties down to handle us. At the snap both Conner and Majors get mauled and both their guys end up in the backfield. Campbell comes across the formation to kick out the DE, doesn't bring his hat, and gets stoned. Wisner doesn't have a chance.

 

[Thatguy 9269]

This last one is just a complete shitshow. Conner gets blown up. Multiple busts. RB never had a chance. The entire secondary could've just sat in the grass. They were not needed.

[Pato del Muerto 53319]

I guess my question, since it appears to be a talent thing and not an effort or knowledge thing, is do Clemson, asu, or the teams we might play after that have the ability to do what Georgia does to us?

[Thatguy 9269]

20 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Yeah the counter to complex shifting and blitzing is to run more simple zone and duo type shit where the linemen can just get it and RB hit the hole quick. 
 

Less play action and more quick hitters passing. 

Agreed. Move people away from the box. It clears up everyone's reads. Line. RB. QB. Everyone.

[Thatguy 9269]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I guess my question, since it appears to be a talent thing and not an effort or knowledge thing, is do Clemson, asu, or the teams we might play after that have the ability to do what Georgia does to us?

I haven't watched much Clemson but looking at the box scores the answer appears to be no. They do seem to be able to get after the QB.

[Gucci_Suit 2801]

To me it looks more like lack of knowledge and conviction than talent. OL dudes are pulling or moving to second level while letting a defender run right by them on the way to planting our RB. Maybe we should just fire off and block the guys in front of us?

[CycleTex87 3003]

And yet we moved the ball better overall than GA did. 

[jimmyjazz 46944]

@Thatguy, walk me through this.  I'm no film guy.

1.  I don't see 2 tight ends

2.  wtf was our LT doing?

 

Quote

Look at how Georgia is lined up and we are in 12 personnel. They know that no matter how many blockers we have they are going to win some 1v1's and so no need to walk safeties down to handle us. At the snap both Conner and Majors get mauled and both their guys end up in the backfield. Campbell comes across the formation to kick out the DE, doesn't bring his hat, and gets stoned. Wisner doesn't have a chance.

 

[Dark Horse 2407]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

@Thatguy, walk me through this.  I'm no film guy.

1.  I don't see 2 tight ends

2.  wtf was our LT doing?

 

 

Juan Davis is lined up as an H next to Helm. 

[Thatguy 9269]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

@Thatguy, walk me through this.  I'm no film guy.

1.  I don't see 2 tight ends

2.  wtf was our LT doing?

 

 

Both TEs are on the right side of the formation. We pull Campbell to kick out the DE. Juan Davis pulls around as a lead blocker. Campbell needed to bring some pop so he doesn't get knocked back into the backfield. Both Majors and Conner get whipped. Conner's was physical strength. Majors improper technique. Three linemen failed for three different reasons. 52 for not bringing enough effort and aggression. We turned the LT loose to climb to the second level and block a LB then Campbell replaces him by blocking the DE.

[ClubWhatever 12274]

Let me summarize:  Conner

[jimmyjazz 46944]

4 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Both TEs are on the right side of the formation. We pull Campbell to kick out the DE. Juan Davis pulls around as a lead blocker. Campbell needed to bring some pop so he doesn't get knocked back into the backfield. Both Majors and Conner get whipped. Conner's was physical strength. Majors improper technique. Three linemen failed for three different reasons. 52 for not bringing enough effort and aggression. We turned the LT loose to climb to the second level and block a LB then Campbell replaces him by blocking the DE.

OK, I see it, I wasn't considering the H a tight end.  Looks like Majors just whiffed on 97.

[Thatguy 9269]

31 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, I see it, I wasn't considering the H a tight end.  Looks like Majors just whiffed on 97.

Indeed he did. Georgia is fucking physical and well coached. Contrast what you are seeing with how the Aggies played us the week prior. No one gets initially whipped at the line and in fact they are able to easily climb to the second level. Even the receiver gets a nice block. Aggies just are pussies. No fight in them. They are happily accepting these blocks. Thank you sir may I please have another.

 

 

 

[Thatguy 9269]

Look at their over-pursuit on the OZ play. We wash down their entire D-line linebackers included. Look at their backside DE getting caught on the inside. Just awful defense. They tried their best to play the Quinn Ewers prevent defense with having their safeties back just willing to live with what we got on the ground. But not 200 yards. Lol

 

 

[BurntOrange&White 41579]

Do we really need another Quinn is a pussy thread?

[dec3169 544]

This might be simplistic, but to me there are really 2 reasons we can't run against GA.

1.  They do have a great defense.  Texas had few problems against most other teams with worse defenses.

2.  They don't have to worry about protecting against the QB run (when Quinn is in).  Quinn might run a few times and maybe even go for a decent gain.  Lately he hasn't been a run threat.

[4th and 5 4992]

WTF is our Oline doing against Georgia, those videos are horrible. Looks like a WW2 Japanese battle plan. How bout just fuck up the guy in front of you?

Edited 14 hours ago by 4th and 5

[Huckleberry 34395]

1 minute ago, 4th and 5 said:

WTF is our Oline doing against Georgia, those videos are horrible.

Some of them are physically overmatched but they're also in their heads. They are waiting for something bad to happen so it does.

It was clear early in the game that spreading them and running at them was the best chance we had on the ground. We were never going to run for 200+ like we do against lesser opponents, but running for 120 at 4 yards per carry would have been enough to win the game. We are not beating Georgia 41-30, we need to control the game and beat them something like 24-17. Which we can absolutely do but the OL needs to get their heads straight, WRs need to catch the ball, and if those two things happen then Ewers has a chance to play better which he also needs to do.

Now let's all just hope we advance to where a third matchup would be a possibility.

[Funk Doctor Spock 13116]

Um, because both of our RB's are small and UGA LB's are bigger and faster?

[Cairn Horn88 8500]

33 minutes ago, dec3169 said:

This might be simplistic, but to me there are really 2 reasons we can't run against GA.

1.  They do have a great defense.  Texas had few problems against most other teams with worse defenses.

2.  They don't have to worry about protecting against the QB run (when Quinn is in).  Quinn might run a few times and maybe even go for a decent gain.  Lately he hasn't been a run threat.

All true…other SEC teams GA played all ran for more yards than we did…probably because of QBs who could/run the ball….if you know Quinn is not gonna run, it makes a difference….and Sark needs to adjust…..accordingly..

[ATXbronco 4378]

Good stuff, thank you Thatguy

[Rimbo 26846]

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I guess my question, since it appears to be a talent thing and not an effort or knowledge thing, is do Clemson, asu, or the teams we might play after that have the ability to do what Georgia does to us?

No.

Look at Georgia's recruiting rankings over the past few years.

2024 - #1 (us: #6)

2023 - #2 (us: #3)

2022 - #3 (us: #5) (lol aggy #1)

2021 - #4 (us: #15)

2020 - #1 (us: #9)

Now there's all kinds of caveats to throw out here and there, but the bottom line is that they've outranked us year after year. We've gotten this far by doing more with less, getting guys like Wisner, Taafe and Helm to develop into really good players.

Against a team like Georgia, you see it. Anyone else? Naw.

[Wilcox Cummingtonite 3534]

Our weakness continues to be OL play. Been that way since 2005 (and 2006).

Hard to win a championship that way.

[Zeus 6747]

Georgias DL is so unstoppable how did Bama beat them? Oh duh Milroe went off..

ok how did the fightin lane kiffins beat them?

Dart leading rusher with 50 yards, but also, Ole Miss just passed all over them in the rain. 
 

success running with RBs was in hurry up and out of pistol…

Edited 9 hours ago by Zeus

[Dahobbs 18178]

14 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Georgias DL is so unstoppable how did Bama beat them? Oh duh Milroe went off..

ok how did the fightin lane kiffins beat them?

Dart leading rusher with 50 yards, but also, Ole Miss just passed all over them in the rain. 
 

success running with RBs was in hurry up and out of pistol…

Their dline isn't unbeatable. But it is a bad matchup for us. And, for whatever reason, Georgia just plays differently against us. Their guys make plays that they haven't done consistently throughout the season. 

[Thatguy 9269]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Some of them are physically overmatched but they're also in their heads. They are waiting for something bad to happen so it does.

It was clear early in the game that spreading them and running at them was the best chance we had on the ground. We were never going to run for 200+ like we do against lesser opponents, but running for 120 at 4 yards per carry would have been enough to win the game. We are not beating Georgia 41-30, we need to control the game and beat them something like 24-17. Which we can absolutely do but the OL needs to get their heads straight, WRs need to catch the ball, and if those two things happen then Ewers has a chance to play better which he also needs to do.

Now let's all just hope we advance to where a third matchup would be a possibility.

This is an interesting take because I think it is also true. We were better schematically vs Aggy by far! Guys were finding their man and getting a hat on them. Aggy has NFL talent up front just undisciplined. They are physically capable though and we looked like we were playing against Sam Houston. Then you put in the tape vs Ga and guys are busting assignments everywhere. That little bit of difference in speed and suddenness is freaking them out. Good call.

[Thatguy 9269]

38 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Georgias DL is so unstoppable how did Bama beat them? Oh duh Milroe went off..

ok how did the fightin lane kiffins beat them?

Dart leading rusher with 50 yards, but also, Ole Miss just passed all over them in the rain. 
 

success running with RBs was in hurry up and out of pistol…

They also played better defense than we did against them. Georgia only scored 10 points. They turned them over 3 times and got after Beck with 5 Sacks. Ga won the TOP by just about 5 minutes.

[Codaxx 6196]

8 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Some of them are physically overmatched but they're also in their heads. They are waiting for something bad to happen so it does.

It was clear early in the game that spreading them and running at them was the best chance we had on the ground. We were never going to run for 200+ like we do against lesser opponents, but running for 120 at 4 yards per carry would have been enough to win the game. We are not beating Georgia 41-30, we need to control the game and beat them something like 24-17. Which we can absolutely do but the OL needs to get their heads straight, WRs need to catch the ball, and if those two things happen then Ewers has a chance to play better which he also needs to do.

Now let's all just hope we advance to where a third matchup would be a possibility.

The answer is pretty simple. #1 the guards got absolutely worked vs Georgia in both games. Hard to run anything when your interior OL gets manhandled. Spreading them out might have worked, but I think that is more likely wish casting.  Georgia has 14 TFLs. 8 from true DL. I dont know a scheme that works in that environment.  #2 Georgia has arguably the best group of LBs in the country and they can move. There is a play where it appears Wisner is looking for the cut back, but the play has a chance if he presses the run outside. That turned into a TFL, because of the athleticism of the Georgia LB. # 3 Depth. Texas has not been a team that has shown they can consistently run the ball under Sark (there are a couple games, but those are the exception). It usually starts out with a heavy dose of passing. As the game progresses the run game finds its groove. That usually coincides with DL tiring. Georgia can bring waves of DL at you.

I did watch the game and want to see more empty sets. I also wanted to see some quick hitting traps/wham blocks, maybe ear holing a DT would slow their penetration down. It is not something you see very often anymore.

Edited 5 hours ago by Codaxx

[Pam Cummings 9822]

4 hours ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Our weakness continues to be OL play. Been that way since 2005 (and 2006).

Hard to win a championship that way.

We were a finalist for the Joe Moore, wtf are you talking about?

[Longhornlove 5130]

12 hours ago, Zeus said:

Hey I’d rather Sark trot out 3 running backs to run it than Mensa spread out and run QB Power over and over. 
 

We need to work in pistol more. The running back can get more momentum forward and the ball gets to the qb then the RB slightly faster. 

Pistol does seem to have worked much better against Georgia than other formations. Less dazzle dazzle and more downhill. Georgia is too fast, need quick hitters. Sark has been stubborn in that regard.

[Had Enough 2107]

7 hours ago, Rimbo said:

No.

Look at Georgia's recruiting rankings over the past few years.

2024 - #1 (us: #6)

2023 - #2 (us: #3)

2022 - #3 (us: #5) (lol aggy #1)

2021 - #4 (us: #15)

2020 - #1 (us: #9)

Now there's all kinds of caveats to throw out here and there, but the bottom line is that they've outranked us year after year. We've gotten this far by doing more with less, getting guys like Wisner, Taafe and Helm to develop into really good players.

Against a team like Georgia, you see it. Anyone else? Naw.

One of the reasons Georgia has been the best program of the past 5 years is right here.  And they’ve had tons of success on the defensive front - recruits, wins, NFL guys.

All teams pretty much attempt to win right here.  You can argue that at the collegiate and pro level Georgia wins as much as anyone in that department.  Oh and that have a top notch defensive guy running the show.

Your LBs are toast if the Ol consistently get to them.  So your DL has to win battles or command double teams. We’ve had significant success here the past 2-3 years.

[Codaxx 6196]

30 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

We were a finalist for the Joe Moore, wtf are you talking about?

This is a good OL, but there is a reason Sark has changed his offense. He came in an inside zone guy. There was talk early that he need IZ to work for his RPO scheme. He has moved to OZ adnd adjusted his scheme because he knows the interior of the OL are not mashers. They are better on the move walling defenders off, than displacing defenders off the LOS. Very few OLs that can do everything. Asking them to go downhill at Georgia is a great discussion for the chalk board, but it is like wondering why WRs screens dont work when Bond is asked to block.

(this one reason why I am very curious to see what the OL/run game looks like next year. I dont think they will be better overall, but they may be better drive blockers)

Edited 4 hours ago by Codaxx

[tokamak 6681]

UMass ran for 5.7 ypc on 40 carries against Georgia two weeks before the SEC Championship game. UMass. Maybe Hayden Conner isn't very good, but I refuse to believe that UMass has 5 OL better than Hayden Conner. It wasn't about having to respect a running QB, either. UMass's QB had 6 rushes for 23 yards (long of 10) not including sacks. He's not a running threat at all.

Every Longhorn fan is all aboard the Sark train, and rightly so, but it seems to me that Kirby has outcoached the shit out of us twice so far this year. Put some blame on Flood and Choice as well.

[morehornsepower 887]

On top of the line/blocking issues, it seems our offense always counts on the ball carrier to make one guy miss. The plays are designed to block everyone else, so that we gain 20 yards if we make one miss, but zero yards if we don’t make that guy miss. Boom or bust. 
Against Georgia’s talent, that one guy never missed. And, thanks to our execution/mindset, there was usually at least one more guy there with him to make the tackle anyway.  
(All opinion given here is without reviewing the tape - I refuse to do that to myself)

[MrX 793]

Georgia treating UMass like the bye week it was doesn’t really say much about our struggles to run the ball on them. 

[Huckleberry 34395]

48 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

The answer is pretty simple. #1 the guards got absolutely worked vs Georgia in both games. Hard to run anything when your interior OL gets manhandled. Spreading them out might have worked, but I think that is more likely wish casting.  Georgia has 14 TFLs. 8 from true DL. I dont know a scheme that works in that environment.  #2 Georgia has arguably the best group of LBs in the country and they can move. There is a play where it appears Wisner is looking for the cut back, but the play has a chance if he presses the run outside. That turned into a TFL, because of the athleticism of the Georgia LB. # 3 Depth. Texas has not been a team that has shown they can consistently run the ball under Sark (there are a couple games, but those are the exception). It usually starts out with a heavy dose of passing. As the game progresses the run game finds its groove. That usually coincides with DL tiring. Georgia can bring waves of DL at you.

I did watch the game and want to see more empty sets. I also wanted to see some quick hitting traps/wham blocks, maybe ear holing a DT would slow their penetration down. It is not something you see very often anymore.

We ran inside 14 times for 56 yards in the SEC championship game. 

We ran outside 5 times for 0 total yards. 

Drives were blown up by running outside for losses on first down, sacks, and penalties. 

[linux 1756]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

We were a finalist for the Joe Moore, wtf are you talking about?

On the back of their pass blocking these past two years, run blocking has been good just not great.

[Thatguy 9269]

48 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

This is a good OL, but there is a reason Sark has changed his offense. He came in an inside zone guy. There was talk early that he need IZ to work for his RPO scheme. He has moved to OZ adnd adjusted his scheme because he knows the interior of the OL are not mashers. They are better on the move walling defenders off, than displacing defenders off the LOS. Very few OLs that can do everything. Asking them to go downhill at Georgia is a great discussion for the chalk board, but it is like wondering why WRs screens dont work when Bond is asked to block.

(this one reason why I am very curious to see what the OL/run game looks like next year. I dont think they will be better overall, but they may be better drive blockers)

This right here. IZ is better for the RPO game. There are more RPO options off of it. It also doesn't expose your quarterback like OZ does on play action. But we suck at it for the most part so Sark went with tap dancing instead.