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Posted
On 3/15/2025 at 3:50 PM, Anton Chigurh said:

Sounds like Ferrari raised the car to avoid potential plank wear issues.

 

On 3/15/2025 at 4:03 PM, wood said:

Wow. that's a pretty smooth circuit, so if that's a problem for them there, it could be a big problem for them much of the year.

Catching up reading the last three pages or so and thought this comment by wood was pretty prescient. The plank wear caused Lewis' DQ right? A problem indeed.

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Posted
Catching up reading the last three pages or so and thought this comment by wood was pretty prescient. The plank wear caused Lewis' DQ right? A problem indeed.

Yes, it seems like it is a rear suspension/compliance issue.

The extra consumption of the plank is not a cause but a consequence. The structure of the rear air does not allow the expected stiffness, which obliges you to increase the height in a closed park to protect yourself with 100kg on board. The main clue is the rear suspension, approved in July last year, together with the new gearbox.
The Haas shares the mechanical parts and worked well after the Australian disaster, however it does not have the performance loading platform or the sophisticated Ferrari aerodynamics. In other words, the SF-25 struggles with the excessive softness that is compromising its operation. It looks like something already seen, for example, on the old Mercedes last year. The Red in the right conditions can generate much more load than the previous car, the sprint showed what the car could do with 35 kg of gasoline. The qualification after three hours canceled expectations again, less downforce in the curve and greater instability of the rear.

Loic Serra arrived in October so relatively late on project 677. The French DT has returned to Maranello and is intervening to correct its effectiveness and reliability but clearly it is premature to formulate a solution or its timing. The problem is not easy to solve, the engineers are also working on some update areas that should be introduced new parts from Bahrain.


It’s a dodgy translation from Italian, but all 3 of Donadoni, Duchessa, and Giuliana are credited as authors here which suggests that they are pretty confident about it.

https://autoracer.it/it/ferrari-sf25-fondo-cina-aggiornamenti
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Posted
4 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

Except that's clearly false and we're only 2 races in.

And last year Lawson wasn’t the better driver. There’s of course different factors that go into the 6 races they had with each other last year but we’re kinda already seeing the same results this year. When it comes to answering questions about the second RB seat I would keep the cockiness down a couple notches if I was Lawson. At least wait till you have shown good results. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, faps said:

Catching up reading the last three pages or so and thought this comment by wood was pretty prescient. The plank wear caused Lewis' DQ right? A problem indeed.

I forgot about that. And China is also a brand new surface that's extremely smooth and grippy. Not a great sign.

Posted
4 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

Except that's clearly false and we're only 2 races in.

30 minutes ago, Levi said:

And last year Lawson wasn’t the better driver. There’s of course different factors that go into the 6 races they had with each other last year but we’re kinda already seeing the same results this year. When it comes to answering questions about the second RB seat I would keep the cockiness down a couple notches if I was Lawson. At least wait till you have shown good results. 

Yep. Yesterday he spent the vast majority of the race ahead of only the Saubers, well behind Yuki in the RB, and finished~3s behind Hadjar who'd been held up by Doohan's dirty driving for the last 1/3 of the race. Lawson spent the whole race on the the opposite end of the grid from his teammate, finishing ~65s behind him. He only beat Yuki because of the front wing failure that ruined Yuki's race. The only rookies he beat were Bortoleto in the shitty Sauber and Doohan in the shitty Alpine, and only then after Doohan's 10s penalty was applied.

While I still don't care for it, it's one thing to talk shit when you can back it up. It's quite another when you're underperforming massively (to put it in the kindest possible terms).

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Posted

That’s interesting to do right before Japan. If yuki doesn’t step in and look better it could blow up. I was thinking they might wait one or two more races but maybe they do care about the constructors championship this year

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:


Yes, it seems like it is a rear suspension/compliance issue.



It’s a dodgy translation from Italian, but all 3 of Donadoni, Duchessa, and Giuliana are credited as authors here which suggests that they are pretty confident about it.

https://autoracer.it/it/ferrari-sf25-fondo-cina-aggiornamenti

I didn't get a good feeling when Ferrari said last season that they were going to completely redo their suspension design in the last year of these regs, and this is why. It takes too much time to understand a new suspension setup and have it mesh with the rest of your car. 

Interestingly, Charles was complaining a ton in the sprint and the main race that the Ferrari couldn't get the rear traction out of the turn that leads onto the long straight to overtake the Merc, despite the Ferrari being clearly quicker overall. Watching his onbaord, he would be following George extremely closely through all the turns and then lose 2-3 tenths accelerating out of that corner, making an overtake on the straight basically impossible. I would assume this is the reason for that as well as the excessive plank wear they've seen the last two races. If they can't quickly figure out a fix besides raising the car, then this year is over and might as well move on to 2026.  

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

Reading rumors that Yuki and Lawson will swap seats effective immediately.

Good. Yuki has proved himself way more and should have gotten the seat anyways. Lawson was a pretty meh prospect coming out of his junior career anyways, so it's not like he has all this untapped potential. 

Edited by Burt Macklin
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Posted
11 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Good. Yuki has proved himself way more and should have gotten the seat anyways. Lawson was a pretty meh prospect coming out of his junior career anyways, so it's not like he has all this untapped potential anyways. 

Yeah, I never understood putting Lawson in that seat from the beginning.  Red Bull is just so bad at #2 drivers.  It's fucking comical. Lawson sucked but he deserved more than 2 races.  And what do they do if Yuki is just as bad?  Swap them back?  Let Hadjar have a go?

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Posted
8 hours ago, aggie08 said:

But, "Fuck you, I've always been faster than you," is also an appropriate response to that challenge.

And what if that is not a true statement?

2019 F3:

image.png.808c3a4e4c8e53f212a430366a77d348.png

2019 Euroformula:

image.png.118e674564aafc71e073d48339b32fec.png

As far as I can tell, that's the only 2 times they've been in the same series head-to-head.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, I never understood putting Lawson in that seat from the beginning.  Red Bull is just so bad at #2 drivers.  It's fucking comical. Lawson sucked but he deserved more than 2 races.  And what do they do if Yuki is just as bad?  Swap them back?  Let Hadjar have a go?

I agree he should've gotten more than two races in a new car. That's absolutely pointless, but RB clearly isn't learning. They burned through Gasly and then kept him at Torro Rosso then let him go, despite him clearly improving and becoming a good driver.  Similar thing happened with Albon. Both those guys are better now than anyone they've had in that second seat since.

If Yuki doesn't work, I expect they'll give Hadjar a shot. I believe Marko is very high on Hadjar IIRC. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I agree he should've gotten more than two races in a new car. That's absolutely pointless, but RB clearly isn't learning. They burned through Gasly and then kept him at Torro Rosso then let him go, despite him clearly improving and becoming a good driver.  Similar thing happened with Albon. Both those guys are better now than anyone they've had in that second seat since.

If Yuki doesn't work, I expect they'll give Hadjar a shot. I believe Marko is very high on Hadjar IIRC. 

I still can't figure out WTF Helmut does or why he has such a prominent role in the team.  As far as I can tell, he just talks shit to reporters 24/7.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I still can't figure out WTF Helmut does or why he has such a prominent role in the team.  As far as I can tell, he just talks shit to reporters 24/7.

Is there a more important job at Red Bull?

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Posted
I still can't figure out WTF Helmut does or why he has such a prominent role in the team.  As far as I can tell, he just talks shit to reporters 24/7.

Man I’ve thought the same, haha.
Posted
4 hours ago, Updawg said:

That’s interesting to do right before Japan. If yuki doesn’t step in and look better it could blow up. I was thinking they might wait one or two more races but maybe they do care about the constructors championship this year

What is the worst that can happen, they look like they have totally fucked up the second driver situation and the team as a whole is in danger of imploding on Helmut?  

Posted
5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I still can't figure out WTF Helmut does or why he has such a prominent role in the team.  As far as I can tell, he just talks shit to reporters 24/7.

He was close with Dietrich Mateschitz through the early years of RBR. With the old man's death, his influence seems to be waning. That whole outfit is a mess right now.

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Posted
I didn't get a good feeling when Ferrari said last season that they were going to completely redo their suspension design in the last year of these regs, and this is why. It takes too much time to understand a new suspension setup and have it mesh with the rest of your car. 
Interestingly, Charles was complaining a ton in the sprint and the main race that the Ferrari couldn't get the rear traction out of the turn that leads onto the long straight to overtake the Merc, despite the Ferrari being clearly quicker overall. Watching his onbaord, he would be following George extremely closely through all the turns and then lose 2-3 tenths accelerating out of that corner, making an overtake on the straight basically impossible. I would assume this is the reason for that as well as the excessive plank wear they've seen the last two races. If they can't quickly figure out a fix besides raising the car, then this year is over and might as well move on to 2026.  


Well, it was the front suspension that they completely changed (went from pushrod to pullrod), which actually does seem to be working really well. The rear is still a pullrod like it has been for years. It seems like it may possibly be the interaction/mounting to the gearbox case not being rigid enough (the translation is not the best, but is this why Lewis had a gearbox problem in testing?) and it is also mounted right by where the diffuser throat is, so it’s not something that’s easily changed without totally messing with the floor. There was a rumor that they are bringing a different/modified floor either to Japan or Bahrain. If true, maybe the goal is to smooth out the downforce peakiness to reduce the compliance issue on that extreme end of the spectrum (where it would cause the most plank wear), or just make it where it is designed to be run a little higher? Either way you lose a bit of performance. 
 
It says they are also working on suspension tuning with the mechanical bits as well. You can “fix” it with that, but it may throw off your balance completely if it’s too drastic a change, or you just lose performance by having to also mess with the front. Who knows. It’s a very fine balance. 
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Posted
57 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 


Well, it was the front suspension that they completely changed (went from pushrod to pullrod), which actually does seem to be working really well. The rear is still a pullrod like it has been for years. It seems like it may possibly be the interaction/mounting to the gearbox case not being rigid enough (the translation is not the best, but is this why Lewis had a gearbox problem in testing?) and it is also mounted right by where the diffuser throat is, so it’s not something that’s easily changed without totally messing with the floor. There was a rumor that they are bringing a different/modified floor either to Japan or Bahrain. If true, maybe the goal is to smooth out the downforce peakiness to reduce the compliance issue on that extreme end of the spectrum (where it would cause the most plank wear), or just make it where it is designed to be run a little higher? Either way you lose a bit of performance. 
 
It says they are also working on suspension tuning with the mechanical bits as well. You can “fix” it with that, but it may throw off your balance completely if it’s too drastic a change, or you just lose performance by having to also mess with the front. Who knows. It’s a very fine balance. 

 

Yeah, they changed their front suspension and also said last year they were changing 99% of the car or something like that, and that’s what concerned me. 
 

It’s hard to imagine a fix for this that doesn’t result in some loss of performance and they’re already way down after two races. I’m sure they have some serious gains to make with improving setup/balance, but their strategy fuck up in Australia and a double DQ in China means they have to make huge strides immediately and can’t afford any steps back. Such a colossal fuck up to start the season. It’s just so Ferrari.
 

On to next year and hoping they nail the new regs (which I’m sure they won’t). 

Posted
19 hours ago, Updawg said:

That’s interesting to do right before Japan. If yuki doesn’t step in and look better it could blow up. I was thinking they might wait one or two more races but maybe they do care about the constructors championship this year

Rumors are Honda money had something to do with it.  Backing Yuki, Japan marketing etc.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, they changed their front suspension and also said last year they were changing 99% of the car or something like that, and that’s what concerned me. 
 

It’s hard to imagine a fix for this that doesn’t result in some loss of performance and they’re already way down after two races. I’m sure they have some serious gains to make with improving setup/balance, but their strategy fuck up in Australia and a double DQ in China means they have to make huge strides immediately and can’t afford any steps back. Such a colossal fuck up to start the season. It’s just so Ferrari.
 

On to next year and hoping they nail the new regs (which I’m sure they won’t). 

They're way down but much of it is of their own doing.

Race 1.  Pitted one lap late to put inters on which cost each driver several places.

Race 2. 0.5mm and 1 kilo cost them a dozen or so points?

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Posted

He reminds me of Stoffel Vandoorne. Dude was good at the lower levels, but really just didn't bring anything in F1. Sucks in qualifying. Sucks just as much in the race. No race pace or racecraft. Not passing anyone or really even pressuring anyone. But worse than SV, and a bigger, more arrogant prick. When it's this bad, then I can see why they'd just move on.  

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Posted
36 minutes ago, wood said:

He reminds me of Stoffel Vandoorne. Dude was good at the lower levels, but really just didn't bring anything in F1. Sucks in qualifying. Sucks just as much in the race. No race pace or racecraft. Not passing anyone or really even pressuring anyone. But worse than SV, and a bigger, more arrogant prick. When it's this bad, then I can see why they'd just move on.  

Hmmmm, maybe they should go dial up DannyRic and give him that seat.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

If I never see him again in F1, I'd love to see Danny in NASCAR, or better yet, V8SC. ETA:  Indycar would be a pretty nice fit as well.

Edited by wood
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Posted
12 hours ago, wood said:

If I never see him again in F1, I'd love to see Danny in NASCAR, or better yet, V8SC. ETA:  Indycar would be a pretty nice fit as well.

Still would love a F1 Manningcast with Danny Ric, co host and a rotating chair of guests.

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Posted (edited)

I wish I could understand Japanese just to be able to listen to his rants.  He likes to cuss so much in English that it's gotta be amazing in his native tongue.

Edited by kevwun
Posted
On 3/25/2025 at 9:32 PM, BigDHornfan said:

a63440b83fbd94b87216091c2a61ef8f.jpg

I was thinking about that old saying that goes about this way;

"if everybody you meet each day is an asshole, then perhaps you are the asshole"

The second seat at RedBull feels a bit that way;

"If everybody sucks in the second car.......".

Posted
On 3/25/2025 at 6:08 PM, Chewbacca said:

I still can't figure out WTF Helmut does or why he has such a prominent role in the team.  As far as I can tell, he just talks shit to reporters 24/7.

We do know how Austrians can be when they get out of control.

But, I think Helmut did win overall at LeMans in a 917. So he did drive, and apparently very well.

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