Film Study Why we struggled in pass defense vs Clemson(nothing to worry about folks)

[Thatguy 9445]

I apologize for the video. I couldn't find a full game copy anywhere so had to rip a few plays.

 

@Dahobbswas explaining a little bit of this to a fellow poster. ZSo thanks to him for getting the ball rolling. Let's get this out of the way right now. For those of you that didn't think Dabo was a good coach we just all fucked around and found out on Sat-ur-dee. Ole ball coach played us like a fiddle. They had a lovely opening script capped off with a double pick that we actually helped with but we will get to that in a minute. They got on the board first and then Sark and PK proceeded to drag their balls on Clemson's facemask by going on a 31-3 run. The offense did it's thing but PK's defense settled in and stymied the Clemson offense. However Dabo, as championship coaches do, found something. He sped up their offense when he got the right defensive personnel on the other side. Two things that did. We lost our pass rush because the guys caught in the game aren't the type that gets pressure. Second, when a defense is sped up they scrap the exotics and stick to simplistic defensive schemes like man v man or basic zone schemes. So by doing that they could slow our pass rush and manipulate our secondary. To do that your coaches have to be pretty savvy and have a QB with full command of the passing offense. So we shouldn't see that too often so we can all relax. If we do then PK is a dumb ass for falling for the same trick twice.

So let's get into it shall we?

I mean what the hell were the refs looking at here. First thing first I am wondering if this was a mistake by our secondary here to start. I know we are in man but instead of letting the routes tell us which man we are taking Barron and Guilbeau cross streams and allow the TE/Barron route to pick Guilbeau. The TE is literally blocking Barron well past the five yard mark for a pass that is being thrown past the line of scrimmage. Guilbeau is already out of position only to be physically blocked a second time, again for a pass thrown past the line. To miss an illegal pick once is bad but two times on the same play? Come on refs.

 

 

 

[BurgleBro 981]

Been waiting for a thread to explain what happened to the pass rush.  Keep it coming

[Thatguy 9445]

This is just absolutely monstrous route running. Manny Muhammed is never heard from in games for a reason. That reason is he is really good and sticky in coverage and quarterbacks just don't want to test him. However, he is a guy who plays the man instead of a guy who plays the ball like Barron does. He has good hips and feet and it's hard to lose him in coverage. So when you do throw it his way he is watching the receiver to see when the ball arrives so he can attack the catch area. To beat him you need to be able to get separation. Watch one Bryant Wesco Jr here. Fires off the line and sells the outside release like its a fade. When he gets Manny's hips turned he chops his route down and turns creating separation. Against Manny that's not enough because Manny has the feet to recover. However, instead of sitting and waiting on the ball to get to him Wesco comes back and attacks the football, preventing him from recovering and breaking it up. Just top notch route running that you don't see every week. This kid is good. Take note of the helmet. Never a tell that the ball is headed his way until it's actually in his hands.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:38 PM by Thatguy

[Pato del Muerto 53575]

The second pick was closer than I thought to being after the catch. I’m guessing it’s designed to be so, and was close enough that the refs let it go if they saw it.  The te drive blocking though should have been an easy call, pick or not. 

[Not a cat 5819]

So since we're SEC now, what's stopping us from "cramping" whenever this happens?

[MirrOlure 15307]

So with the “4th time out” now a thing, is using a time out if we get caught with the wrong personnel on the field?

[Thatguy 9445]

     So fine example of us getting caught in bad packages. We fire the nickel with our best pass rusher, Collin Simmons, being responsible for the back if he leaks out for a route. That leaves Collins, Lole, and Burke left rushing the passer after Guilbeau, who is not good at blitzing, is easily picked up by the LT. That is a good package at stopping the run. Horrible for pass rushing though and Clemson easily walls it off here.  Clemson goes to 6'6 240lb Jake Briningstool here, who is a physical mismatch for Manny Muhammed. Their receiver coach is really good with the details because all these guys use subtle pushing to get a little space when the ball is in the air. Manny probably has never seen that on a regular basis in his career. Live and learn.

 

 

 

 

[Ignatius 4149]

1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

     So fine example of us getting caught in bad packages. We fire the nickel with our best pass rusher, Collin Simmons, being responsible for the back if he leaks out for a route. That leaves Collins, Lole, and Burke left rushing the passer after Guilbeau, who is not good at blitzing, is easily picked up by the LT. That is a good package at stopping the run. Horrible for pass rushing though and Clemson easily walls it off here.  Clemson goes to 6'6 240lb Jake Briningstool here, who is a physical mismatch for Manny Muhammed. Their receiver coach is really good with the details because all these guys use subtle pushing to get a little space when the ball is in the air. Manny probably has never seen that on a regular basis in his career. Live and learn.

 

 

 

 

Credit where it’s due, that’s a hell of a throw…

[Rimbo 27079]

Yeah, this wasn't a case of us suddenly forgetting to play defense. Sometimes the other team and coaches are good, too.

[Thatguy 9445]

We are in a bear front with 5 down linemen expecting them to run because they have 12 personnel(two tight ends) in the game. Another bad package for what Clemson is trying to do. Collin Simmons is a LB in this package and responsible for dropping into coverage. The actual front as far as rushers go is Burke, Lole, Norton, and Broughton. As you can imagine that is a horrible 4 for pass rushing. Clemson is targeting the LBs. They run 9 up the seam to occupy the safety. 11 on the sideline to pull Manny. The back then runs the numbers and Ant gets caught making sure the QB is staying home and the back runs right by him......touchdown. Ant got caught in conflict a lot in this game.

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:12 PM by Thatguy

[Dnaguy 12707]

42 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I apologize for the video. I couldn't find a full game copy anywhere so had to rip a few plays.

 

@Dahobbswas explaining a little bit of this to a fellow poster. ZSo thanks to him for getting the ball rolling. Let's get this out of the way right now. For those of you that didn't think Dabo was a good coach we just all fucked around and found out on Sat-ur-dee. Ole ball coach played us like a fiddle. They had a lovely opening script capped off with a double pick that we actually helped with but we will get to that in a minute. They got on the board first and then Sark and PK proceeded to drag their balls on Clemson's facemask by going on a 31-3 run. The offense did it's thing but PK's defense settled in and stymied the Clemson offense. However Dabo, as championship coaches do, found something. He sped up their offense when he got the right defensive personnel on the other side. Two things that did. We lost our pass rush because the guys caught in the game aren't the type that gets pressure. Second, when a defense is sped up they scrap the exotics and stick to simplistic defensive schemes like man v man or basic zone schemes. So by doing that they could slow our pass rush and manipulate our secondary. To do that your coaches have to be pretty savvy and have a QB with full command of the passing offense. So we shouldn't see that too often so we can all relax. If we do then PK is a dumb ass for falling for the same trick twice.

So let's get into it shall we?

I mean what the hell were the refs looking at here. First thing first I am wondering if this was a mistake by our secondary here to start. I know we are in man but instead of letting the routes tell us which man we are taking Barron and Guilbeau cross streams and allow the TE/Barron route to pick Guilbeau. The TE is literally blocking Barron well past the five yard mark for a pass that is being thrown past the line of scrimmage. Guilbeau is already out of position only to be physically blocked a second time, again for a pass thrown past the line. To miss an illegal pick once is bad but two times on the same play? Come on refs.

 

 

 

Was at the game and in upper deck.

I didn’t see the offensive PI’s in real time but given how open the receiver was, I knew they had to have run a pick.

Texted a buddy about it right after. 
‘where was the offensive Pi in that play?’

He didn’t answer me.

I feel vindicated.

But also this is a far different reaction than I would have had last year. I would have assumed a blown coverage all the way and would have considered us lucky to have been blocked in the defensive backfield.

[JOSEYWALES66 1857]

Anthony Hill looks really slow in the last clip.  I hope it is because he knew he was beat and he isn't hurt. 

[Dahobbs 18378]

24 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

     So fine example of us getting caught in bad packages. We fire the nickel with our best pass rusher, Collin Simmons, being responsible for the back if he leaks out for a route. That leaves Collins, Lole, and Burke left rushing the passer after Guilbeau, who is not good at blitzing, is easily picked up by the LT. That is a good package at stopping the run. Horrible for pass rushing though and Clemson easily walls it off here.  Clemson goes to 6'6 240lb Jake Briningstool here, who is a physical mismatch for Manny Muhammed. Their receiver coach is really good with the details because all these guys use subtle pushing to get a little space when the ball is in the air. Manny probably has never seen that on a regular basis in his career. Live and learn.

 

 

 

 

There is also a block in the back on Guilbreau that probably should be called there. It was a pretty blatant, full extension push once he got around the guard. Ref appears to be looking right at it, so I'm not sure why that doesn't get called. Probably didn't affect the play, but hard to say. 

 

[Dahobbs 18378]

13 minutes ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

Anthony Hill looks really slow in the last clip.  I hope it is because he knew he was beat and he isn't hurt. 

The way Gbenda acted, immediately turning rather than staying with the slot receiver in the flat, I'm not entirely either he or Hill knew their assignments there. Good use movement to stress the defense. It makes more sense we would have Hill be responsible for the slot and Gbenda the back (at least in terms of matchups). 

Edited Monday at 10:30 PM by Dahobbs

[Thatguy 9445]

Again, look at our personnel on the line. 8, 88, 99, and 95. We try a line stunt with Moore attacking the boundary side B gap to occupy the right tackle so Collins can loop around. However that is slow developing and pickup anyway. On the other side Sorrell is being double-teamed leaving Klubnik all day to throw.  On the backside we are playing zone. Hard to see without the all 22 but it looks to be Cover 3 with the way Manny bails. Clemson runs a nice zone beater sending a man vertically up the seam to occupy the deep defenders, a man running a 5 yard out to occupy Guilbeau's eyes, and then sneaking a 15 yard out behind them. This is a big boy throw here. 15 yard out from the opposite hash. NFL scouts will be watching this one. Again, it's second and 10 and we get caught with our run stopping package in.

 

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 53575]

That’s the thing. They didn’t just get into favorable matchups, they called good plays designed to take advantage and then the players executed them all. 

[Thatguy 9445]

This is the play that made a lot of people mad. 4th and 6 and we have Trey Moore on the sideline. Simmons gets free but we get no pocket pressure on the other side so all Klubnik has to do is drift away from him and buy time to throw. On the back end we are playing zone. Everyone seems to do their job except Ant seemed to be focused on what the QB is doing and loses track of the man that ran past him. TD. There are two other dudes avail in case the QB takes off. Trust your teammates.

 

 

 

 

[Thatguy 9445]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s the thing. They didn’t just get into favorable matchups, they called good plays designed to take advantage and then the players executed them all. 

In no huddle situations they knew what we would default to and had plays ready for those defaults based on what personnel they were showing us. It was really good prep. Lincoln Riley would've been proud. I hated that dude because he was good at offense.

[Dahobbs 18378]

7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Again, look at our personnel on the line. 8, 88, 99, and 95. We try a line stunt with Moore attacking the boundary side B gap to occupy the right tackle so Collins can loop around. However that is slow developing and pickup anyway. On the other side Sorrell is being double-teamed leaving Klubnik all day to throw.  On the backside we are playing zone. Hard to see without the all 22 but it looks to be Cover 3 with the way Manny bails. Clemson runs a nice zone beater sending a man vertically up the seam to occupy the deep defenders, a man running a 5 yard out to occupy Guilbeau's eyes, and then sneaking a 15 yard out behind them. This is a big boy throw here. 15 yard out from the opposite hash. NFL scouts will be watching this one. Again, it's second and 10 and we get caught with our run stopping package in.

 

 

 

Hill ends up guarding grass here. I have to think #3 is supposed to get more depth and then he and Hill can rally to the 7 yard out if it goes that way. That's a long throw, so Guilbeau would have had plenty of time if he just stays at a 10 yard depth. It would have also made that deeper out almost impossible to hit.  

[Thatguy 9445]

Again, absolutely no pressure from Burke. Meanwhile Simmons beats his man around the end. Moore needs to be in there on passing downs but if you get to the line quickly the defense can't sub. On the back end Manny playing tight trail but the receiver stiff arms him at the last moment and creates separation. This kept happening to him so they kept going after him. Not many receiving corps can do this to him but here we are.

 

 

[Dahobbs 18378]

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Again, absolutely no pressure from Burke. Meanwhile Simmons beats his man around the end. Moore needs to be in there on passing downs but if you get to the line quickly the defense can't sub. On the back end Manny playing tight trail but the receiver stiff arms him at the last moment and creates separation. This kept happening to him so they kept going after him. Not many receiving corps can do this to him but here we are.

 

 

Nothing you can do about that throw other than not let it happen. 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

I would think others will try to target Hill in passing situations if he is struggling.  

[Lou Loomis 933]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah, this wasn't a case of us suddenly forgetting to play defense. Sometimes the other team and coaches are good, too.

Absolutely, and almost no one has gotten many yards after the catch on our defense this season. They tackle receivers well. 5-star QBs throwing to 4- and 5-star receivers are going to connect at times. Playing for their season, they might rise to the occasional occasion. There’s no need to panic. This defense fucks. Hard.

[Thatguy 9445]

17 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

I would think others will try to target Hill in passing situations if he is struggling.  

Hill doesn't usually struggle but Klubnik is a legit run threat and I think it was in his head.

[BurgleBro 981]

Do teams rarely run no huddle hurry up against us?  

Feel like we've not seen that often this season. 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9519]

54 minutes ago, Lou Loomis said:

Playing for their season, they might rise to the occasional occasion. 

Just helpin' a brother out here, dude.

[Thatguy 9445]

48 minutes ago, BurgleBro said:

Do teams rarely run no huddle hurry up against us?  

Feel like we've not seen that often this season. 

SEC doesn't run a whole lot of that. Freshwater does but it just isn't popular.

Edited yesterday at 12:39 AM by Thatguy

[Gucci_Suit 2829]

Lots of stuff to work on and inspire the secondary and pass rush.

But also, Klubnick threw dimes. Both QBs did. 

[BurgleBro 981]

Giving Cade and the Clemson HUNH offense all the credit.   But this makes me terrified about a potential Oregon match up.   You gotta think a 7th year QB will be able to pull even sicker reads, throws, and their WR talent is up there all the same. 

Hope this somehow gets PK into a better mind set for future similar scenarios.   

[shakahorn 1660]

On their first TD, I didn’t realize until now that the second pick happened right in front of the umpire, heck, our guy got blocked almost into the ump. I realize that’s not exactly the ump’s responsibility but jfc come on man.

[Dahobbs 18378]

6 minutes ago, BurgleBro said:

Giving Cade and the Clemson HUNH offense all the credit.   But this makes me terrified about a potential Oregon match up.   You gotta think a 7th year QB will be able to pull even sicker reads, throws, and their WR talent is up there all the same. 

Hope this somehow gets PK into a better mind set for future similar scenarios.   

We can't play Guilbeau against elite passing offenses unless he really ups his game. Malik will be fine. 

[John Coctostan 641]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

This is the play that made a lot of people mad. 4th and 6 and we have Trey Moore on the sideline. Simmons gets free but we get no pocket pressure on the other side so all Klubnik has to do is drift away from him and buy time to throw. On the back end we are playing zone. Everyone seems to do their job except Ant seemed to be focused on what the QB is doing and loses track of the man that ran past him. TD. There are two other dudes avail in case the QB takes off. Trust your teammates.

 

 

 

 

Yeah. We have three guys here covering the empty side of the endzone.

[StassneyHorn 6790]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

There is also a block in the back on Guilbreau that probably should be called there. It was a pretty blatant, full extension push once he got around the guard. Ref appears to be looking right at it, so I'm not sure why that doesn't get called. Probably didn't affect the play, but hard to say. 

 

OL block DL in the back all the time at the line of scrimmage. It’s legal. 

Edited 22 hours ago by StassneyHorn

[Lou Loomis 933]

3 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Just helpin' a brother out here, dude.

You’re a blast at parties, huh?

[horny_gunman 138]

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Hill doesn't usually struggle but Klubnik is a legit run threat and I think it was in his head.

Looks like Hill lost sight of Klubnik’s eyes and for whatever reason figured to drop laterally instead of straight back, as mentioned.  
 

Actually, I just wanted to say thanks for the snippets and discussion.  I also enjoy this type of stuff

[ztejas 44277]

Great analysis and clips, @Thatguy.

There were a couple things I kept harping on leading into this game.

One: Clemson is pretty good - certainly better than a lot of folks were giving them credit for - and closed the season playing some really good football despite the close loss against a damn good SCAR team that was just as good as any of the late CFP inclusions.

Two: All that said - I thought it would take quite a bit for them to not lose by two scores. 

I feel like I was kind of right on both counts (well, obviously the 2nd one) but where I was wrong was I didn't expect us to gash them the way we did (close to 300 yds rushing) and I didn't expect them to air it out as well as they did. 

Ultimately you can't bitch about a 14 point CFP win but my main takeaway was that in a potential UO matchup we're going to need to be better. That's okay - because I've seen us play better - especially on D - multiple times this season. 

I'd love to hold my tongue and avoid being your classic condescending, arrogant Texas fan but ASU doesn't particularly concern me (maybe they will a bit more depending on some of the injuries going in).

Despite dropping 3 games this season and not collecting a signature win until the ACC title game Clemson was extremely tested coming in in a way that ASU simply won't be. Georgia, SCAR and SMU all have more talent than anyone ASU played all season. Shit, Louisville is a much stronger matchup than most of the B12. 

I think we roll in the Peach Bowl and then we can clench our assholes and pray to Jesus that the dice fall the right way against the Ducks. Assuming they take care of tOSU - who I actually like better matchup-wise. 

[Dahobbs 18378]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

OL block DL in the back all the time at the line of scrimmage. It’s legal. 

Neither the ball nor the block is in the blocking zone. That is an illegal block. 

[StassneyHorn 6790]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Neither the ball nor the block is in the blocking zone. That is an illegal block. 

You are wrong. Oline never get called for that as long as they're near the line of scrimmage. Every lookout block would be a block in the back then. Anytime a LB or DE drops a shoulder it would be called.

Edited 19 hours ago by StassneyHorn

[Hookem2147 22048]

One of PK's defaults, whenever we start getting on our heels a bit, is to just fire a nickel blitz. It's been a thing all 4 years he has been here. It gets home occasionally but as noted, Guilbeau is not a very good blitzer.

One of the postgame shows on Saturday pointed it out, but we seemed way too worried about containing Klubnik's legs at times, and it impacted our pass rush. I wonder if that played into some of the personnel decisions as well. We seemed to find ourselves dancing with the OL too often out of fear of getting out of our lanes.

[Texas Flood 1386]

Wait is That Guy P?

[ousux 5648]

Hill doesn't usually struggle but Klubnik is a legit run threat and I think it was in his head.

Leavitt for ASU will be as well. I've got to wonder if Ant is banged up, he didn't have his best game for sure.

[dcar00 14995]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

You are wrong. Oline never get called for that as long as they're near the line of scrimmage. Every lookout block would be a block in the back then. Anytime a LB or DE drops a shoulder it would be called.

the rule is between the tackles and 3 yards on either side of the LOS I believe.  that said.  there is a ton of leeway given to OL or TE blocking blitzers or ends rushing in the back as they go by even if it is well behind the LOS

Edited 18 hours ago by dcar00

[Tex Pete 21500]

1 hour ago, ousux said:

8 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Hill doesn't usually struggle but Klubnik is a legit run threat and I think it was in his head.

Leavitt for ASU will be as well. I've got to wonder if Ant is banged up, he didn't have his best game for sure.

I never played 14 games, but I played 10 several times. It’s impossible to maintain the same level of play in that many games. Sometimes you’re banged up. Sometimes your focus isn’t quite there. Football is a grueling game physically and mentally. People aren’t machines. 

[D3zii 3953]

Great thread! 
 

as a former DB I thought Manny played hard, and on ever pass he was there. Gotta give Klubnik props, dude balled and the WR’s coach form Clemson needs a raise. You don’t see WR come back to the ball like they did, proves other teams know how good Texas is in coverage. but anyway in regards to Manny it wasn’t  like in years past where the DB is five yards away. He just has to make that jump from playing the man to playing the ball, which is the hardest jump to make as a Corner.
I know his confidence was shot though. When you see catches it’s definitely humbling specially when you’re not use to it. 
 

I’m not sure but I think the coaches stressed to Hill about Kades legs which imo made him think to much instead of play ball like we’re used to seeing, I don’t think we should have to worry about that unless we play Oregon. Outside of not being as athletic, Gabriel is just as good as Klubnik in every way we seen Saturday but with better WR’s and with Howard at Ohio State he may not be as good as the other two but he has better talent around him then they do. PK is gonna have to really earn his money if we beat Arizona State both those teams will present problems.
 

I’ll say it again, I like Gilbeaux, he’s from my neck of the woods, but@Thatguyidk how you feel but imo Gilbeaux is a liability out there specially with the amount of snaps he has under his belt. One of the videos you posted, there’s no reason Gilbeaux should bite on a 5-7 yard out and it’s 3rd and 12, giving up the deep That’s DB 101 but if you watch him he does that a lot. He always bites on the short routes, but I think we haven’t played a team to exploit that. Also I rarely see him turn his head in zone to look for the WR’s in his area . 
I like Gilbeaux but I’d personal like to see more Holmes at CB and Barron at Nickel. 
 

anyway great breakdown 

props to Clemson, like I said before ppl hate Dabo but he’s a great coach. They had a great game plan and put our defense in unfamiliar territory, which I think is a great thing , now this lets PK and staff know what they need to work and be ready for against teams that can put us in that position. 

Edited 16 hours ago by D3zii

[Thatguy 9445]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

Great analysis and clips, @Thatguy.

There were a couple things I kept harping on leading into this game.

One: Clemson is pretty good - certainly better than a lot of folks were giving them credit for - and closed the season playing some really good football despite the close loss against a damn good SCAR team that was just as good as any of the late CFP inclusions.

Two: All that said - I thought it would take quite a bit for them to not lose by two scores. 

I feel like I was kind of right on both counts (well, obviously the 2nd one) but where I was wrong was I didn't expect us to gash them the way we did (close to 300 yds rushing) and I didn't expect them to air it out as well as they did. 

Ultimately you can't bitch about a 14 point CFP win but my main takeaway was that in a potential UO matchup we're going to need to be better. That's okay - because I've seen us play better - especially on D - multiple times this season. 

I'd love to hold my tongue and avoid being your classic condescending, arrogant Texas fan but ASU doesn't particularly concern me (maybe they will a bit more depending on some of the injuries going in).

Despite dropping 3 games this season and not collecting a signature win until the ACC title game Clemson was extremely tested coming in in a way that ASU simply won't be. Georgia, SCAR and SMU all have more talent than anyone ASU played all season. Shit, Louisville is a much stronger matchup than most of the B12. 

I think we roll in the Peach Bowl and then we can clench our assholes and pray to Jesus that the dice fall the right way against the Ducks. Assuming they take care of tOSU - who I actually like better matchup-wise. 

I like us better against Ohio State. The Ducks offense scares me because PK doesn't have a good gameplan vs Gabriel types. He seems to get extremely passive as we saw vs Georgia and Clemson and overthinking it. A spy is all you need. Let your nuts hang on passing downs. 

Howard runs but he is not fast or shifty so I think PK stays aggressive for that one. If we get Ohio State then we likely win our side of the bracket and I like our chances vs the other side. If we get Oregon unless we can win in a shootout we go home. 

[Thatguy 9445]

2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

I never played 14 games, but I played 10 several times. It’s impossible to maintain the same level of play in that many games. Sometimes you’re banged up. Sometimes your focus isn’t quite there. Football is a grueling game physically and mentally. People aren’t machines. 

Yeah, Hill is usually aggressive and trusts his eyes. He was very unsure in this game. I think he was just trying to hard to make a play. Sometimes you have to trust your teammates. It happens. Hit the film room and get back at it. 

[Thatguy 9445]

5 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Neither the ball nor the block is in the blocking zone. That is an illegal block. 

 

4 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

You are wrong. Oline never get called for that as long as they're near the line of scrimmage. Every lookout block would be a block in the back then. Anytime a LB or DE drops a shoulder it would be called.

 

3 hours ago, dcar00 said:

the rule is between the tackles and 3 yards on either side of the LOS I believe.  that said.  there is a ton of leeway given to OL or TE blocking blitzers or ends rushing in the back as they go by even if it is well behind the LOS

It kinda depends on the situation. If the DE is trying to do a spin move and the lineman blocks him with his back to him they won't call it. But if the lineman gets beat and the rusher is about to sack the QB and he pushes him in the back they sometimes call that. It's a real grey area call. 

[ztejas 44277]

18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I like us better against Ohio State.

I do too and that is what I tried to convey - maybe I didn't word it well. 

[bluto 4999]

That tOSU defense is no joke

[ztejas 44277]

5 minutes ago, bluto said:

That tOSU defense is no joke

You know who's defense isn't a joke?