Film Study Why we struggled in pass defense vs Clemson(nothing to worry about folks)

[Dahobbs 18,434]

5 hours ago, dcar00 said:

the rule is between the tackles and 3 yards on either side of the LOS I believe.  that said.  there is a ton of leeway given to OL or TE blocking blitzers or ends rushing in the back as they go by even if it is well behind the LOS

I get it doesn't get called often, but when the QB is in shotgun, because the ball immediately leaves the blocking zone, by rule the zone disintegrates, and any blocks in the back after the initial blocking action should be penalties. 

[kevwun 16,454]

I think Howard just had the game of his life on Saturday.  He hasn't made throws like that all year.

[Thatguy 9,462]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I do too and that is what I tried to convey - maybe I didn't word it well. 

No I got you which is why I agreed.

[Thatguy 9,462]

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

I think Howard just had the game of his life on Saturday.  He hasn't made throws like that all year.

Tennessee plays primarily man and just fucked around and found out is all that was. Their weakness is their QB's ability to read complex defenses and throw into tight windows. Tenn decided "let's clear up his picture for him and try to man cover all 5 star receivers". I drool over the tOSU receiving corp. That's the one thing with us. We have never had top notch receivers. The closest we came was the trio, but even then they weren't as good as WE thought they were. I think that's why our fans think what we currently have is good until you turn on the TV and see what Oregon and tOSU have. Now running backs is a different story.

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

9 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

You are wrong. Oline never get called for that as long as they're near the line of scrimmage. Every lookout block would be a block in the back then. Anytime a LB or DE drops a shoulder it would be called.

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:03 PM by StassneyHorn

[Dark Horse 2,436]

9 hours ago, Texas Flood said:

Wait is That Guy P?

Damn, I think you’re right. 

[Dahobbs 18,434]

41 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.
 

It is literally the rule. Some of the things you're talking about in your post (e.g., the defender dropping a shoulder) are covered by other exceptions even if they occur outside the blocking zone. There is definitely some leeway given here as I don't think the exact parameters of the blocking zone (3 yards longitudinally and 5 yards laterally in each direction) are easy to see and enforce. The rules have changed over the year (e.g., getting rid of low-block zone in favor of a general blocking zone). I know other organizations have specifically addressed shotgun snaps disintegrating the blocking zone over the years, but I'm not entirely sure the NCAA has ever expressly addressed it in a casebook. But yeah, when the block in the back in question occurs 5 yards away from the line of scrimmage well after the initial contact and the ball is 10 yards away from the line of scrimmage, it is a penalty by rule. 

 

Rule 9

Section 3 Blocking, Use of Hands or Arms

ARTICLE 5 Blocking in the Back

A block in the back (other than against the ball carrier) is illegal (A R 9-3-3-I, VII and -IX; and A R 10-2-2-XII) Exceptions:

1 Offensive players who are on the line of scrimmage at the snap within the blocking zone (Rule 2-3-6) may legally block in the back in the blocking zone, subject to the following restrictions: (a) A player on the line of scrimmage within this blocking zone may not leave the zone, return and block in the back (b) The blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone (Rule 2-3-6)

2 When a player turns their back to a potential blocker who has committed themselves in intent and direction or movement

3 When a player attempts to reach a runner or legally attempts to recover or catch a fumble, a backward pass, a kick or a touched forward pass, they may push an opponent in the back above the waist (Rule 9-1-5 Exception 3)

4 When the opponent turns their back to the blocker under Rule 9-3-3-a-1-(b)

5 When an eligible player behind the neutral zone pushes an opponent in the back above the waist to get to a forward pass (Rule 9-1-5 Exception 4)

 

Rule 2

Section 3 Blocking

ARTICLE 6 Blocking Zone

a. The blocking zone is a rectangle centered on the middle lineman of the offensive formation and extending five yards laterally and three yards longitudinally in each direction

b The blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone;

 

 

 

 

[Tex Pete 21,529]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.

 

Stop being a fucking beating. He’s right. You’re wrong. 

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

He literally proved me right with the definition you fucking CR gatekeeping bitch. You can disintegrate my dick.

Edited Tuesday at 05:17 PM by StassneyHorn

[sith_horn 2,537]

Rod Babers goes into detail about secondary struggles in this video. I've linked it to start at 15:09 and he finishes around the 25 minute mark. He's about as good as it gets for secondary analysis.

 

[Jkwellborn 7,076]

There is also a block in the back on Guilbreau that probably should be called there. It was a pretty blatant, full extension push once he got around the guard. Ref appears to be looking right at it, so I'm not sure why that doesn't get called. Probably didn't affect the play, but hard to say. 
 

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a block in the back called between the tackles or on a blitz.

[Jkwellborn 7,076]

Wait is That Guy P?

I wondered that earlier in the season.

[Nivek 17,438]

Damn, I think you’re right. 

Let me here him say ungghhh

[Pato del Muerto 53,621]

3 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

Damn, I think you’re right. 

As in Pete?

[D3zii 3,956]

2 hours ago, sith_horn said:

Rod Babers goes into detail about secondary struggles in this video. I've linked it to start at 15:09 and he finishes around the 25 minute mark. He's about as good as it gets for secondary analysis.

 

I agree with Rod. I’m not sure what’s going on with Gilbeaux but I could see limited snaps going forward, with more Holmes at CB and Barron back at Nickel, and I really hate that being from the same area plus all the snaps under his belt,  but he hasn’t shown any growth and has become a liability. 
 

I think Manny will be okay, think he’ll watch film, and have a great week of prep and come back focused. Could be lackluster with teams not going at him and probably not as focus on his technique.  And like Rod said, when the QB and WR do everything right, DB’s lose everytime and I think that happen a lot. 
 

Like I said Hill will be okay to, we’ve seen him drop in pass drops and be great at it, often getting INTs, just feel like the coaches put a lot on his plate and he felt like he had to make a play, instead of trusting his teammates. 

[Dark Horse 2,436]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

As in Pete?

Guy Pierce

[Dahobbs 18,434]

7 minutes ago, D3zii said:

I agree with Rod. I’m not sure what’s going on with Gilbeaux but I could see limited snaps going forward, with more Holmes at CB and Barron back at Nickel, and I really hate that being from the same area plus all the snaps under his belt,  but he hasn’t shown any growth and has become a liability. 
 

I think Manny will be okay, think he’ll watch film, and have a great week of prep and come back focused. Could be lackluster with teams not going at him and probably not as focus on his technique.  And like Rod said, when the QB and WR do everything right, DB’s lose everytime and I think that happen a lot. 
 

Like I said Hill will be okay to, we’ve seen him drop in pass drops and be great at it, often getting INTs, just feel like the coaches put a lot on his plate and he felt like he had to make a play, instead of trusting his teammates. 

Gilbeau is better in run support than coverage. But it also seemed like we ran a lot more variation in coverage than normal and maybe that is why a few guys got confused. We've been so good at quarters and cover 3 that we've rarely had to do much besides our base.

I do think we may see more of Barron back at nickel against more spready teams (especially teams like ASU without a high priority receiving threat). He may serve more utility there than just locking down one side of the field. 

[bullet 1,631]

On 12/23/2024 at 4:24 PM, Thatguy said:

I apologize for the video. I couldn't find a full game copy anywhere so had to rip a few plays.

 

@Dahobbswas explaining a little bit of this to a fellow poster. ZSo thanks to him for getting the ball rolling. Let's get this out of the way right now. For those of you that didn't think Dabo was a good coach we just all fucked around and found out on Sat-ur-dee. Ole ball coach played us like a fiddle. They had a lovely opening script capped off with a double pick that we actually helped with but we will get to that in a minute. They got on the board first and then Sark and PK proceeded to drag their balls on Clemson's facemask by going on a 31-3 run. The offense did it's thing but PK's defense settled in and stymied the Clemson offense. However Dabo, as championship coaches do, found something. He sped up their offense when he got the right defensive personnel on the other side. Two things that did. We lost our pass rush because the guys caught in the game aren't the type that gets pressure. Second, when a defense is sped up they scrap the exotics and stick to simplistic defensive schemes like man v man or basic zone schemes. So by doing that they could slow our pass rush and manipulate our secondary. To do that your coaches have to be pretty savvy and have a QB with full command of the passing offense. So we shouldn't see that too often so we can all relax. If we do then PK is a dumb ass for falling for the same trick twice.

So let's get into it shall we?

I mean what the hell were the refs looking at here. First thing first I am wondering if this was a mistake by our secondary here to start. I know we are in man but instead of letting the routes tell us which man we are taking Barron and Guilbeau cross streams and allow the TE/Barron route to pick Guilbeau. The TE is literally blocking Barron well past the five yard mark for a pass that is being thrown past the line of scrimmage. Guilbeau is already out of position only to be physically blocked a second time, again for a pass thrown past the line. To miss an illegal pick once is bad but two times on the same play? Come on refs.

 

 

 

Two pretty flagrant blocks downfield.  Probably neither made a difference, but those weren't even subtle.

[BurntEyes 6,369]

Many of the more knowledgeable folks here have already noted it, but I think PK is mixing in a lot of different coverages for 2 reasons. First is, Clemson/Klubnik was the best passing offense/QB we've faced this year. That many new packages/looks are going to cause some errors with the DBs. However, it also caused some issues for Klubnik which was exactly the point.

Second, getting some reps in and figuring it out as well as extra film to process by the opposing OC is critical if we end up facing Oregon (which i think we probably will). That's the best passing team out there, but when Ohio State is on, they aren't too far behind. (I'm far more concerned about the OSU D than O, personally) I think we'll see more of that mix against ASU, but I think we'll focus on making them 1 dimensional and force them to pass. That will also cause some hand-wringing here as it will open some passing lanes, but worth the price imo.

Edited Tuesday at 11:25 PM by BurntEyes

[Thatguy 9,462]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Gilbeau is better in run support than coverage. But it also seemed like we ran a lot more variation in coverage than normal and maybe that is why a few guys got confused. We've been so good at quarters and cover 3 that we've rarely had to do much besides our base.

I do think we may see more of Barron back at nickel against more spready teams (especially teams like ASU without a high priority receiving threat). He may serve more utility there than just locking down one side of the field. 

Guilbeau has bad eye discipline and situational awareness. Manny hasn't really been tested because most teams don't have time to stand back and let routes develop down the field in long yardage situations. With them catching us with run stoppers on the field and not letting us sub you have to be more cautious as a DB and not jump on all the short stuff like you usually can because you know the ball has to come out. That's really all Manny was guilty of. These guys develop a clock in their heads and know when the ball should be out. Georgia is the same way. Their DBs are jumping short routes in long yardage situations because they know the QB cannot hold the ball. 

[Thatguy 9,462]

If you really wanna get pissed off about pass defense watch us vs Washington from the all 22. Penix could sit down and eat lunch back there. Rushers falling face first on the ground and getting back up and he still hadn't thrown the ball yet. Ugh.

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,989]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:24 PM, Thatguy said:

I apologize for the video. I couldn't find a full game copy anywhere so had to rip a few plays.

 

@Dahobbswas explaining a little bit of this to a fellow poster. ZSo thanks to him for getting the ball rolling. Let's get this out of the way right now. For those of you that didn't think Dabo was a good coach we just all fucked around and found out on Sat-ur-dee. Ole ball coach played us like a fiddle. They had a lovely opening script capped off with a double pick that we actually helped with but we will get to that in a minute. They got on the board first and then Sark and PK proceeded to drag their balls on Clemson's facemask by going on a 31-3 run. The offense did it's thing but PK's defense settled in and stymied the Clemson offense. However Dabo, as championship coaches do, found something. He sped up their offense when he got the right defensive personnel on the other side. Two things that did. We lost our pass rush because the guys caught in the game aren't the type that gets pressure. Second, when a defense is sped up they scrap the exotics and stick to simplistic defensive schemes like man v man or basic zone schemes. So by doing that they could slow our pass rush and manipulate our secondary. To do that your coaches have to be pretty savvy and have a QB with full command of the passing offense. So we shouldn't see that too often so we can all relax. If we do then PK is a dumb ass for falling for the same trick twice.

So let's get into it shall we?

I mean what the hell were the refs looking at here. First thing first I am wondering if this was a mistake by our secondary here to start. I know we are in man but instead of letting the routes tell us which man we are taking Barron and Guilbeau cross streams and allow the TE/Barron route to pick Guilbeau. The TE is literally blocking Barron well past the five yard mark for a pass that is being thrown past the line of scrimmage. Guilbeau is already out of position only to be physically blocked a second time, again for a pass thrown past the line. To miss an illegal pick once is bad but two times on the same play? Come on refs.

 

 

 

Shallow cross with a rub and pick, it's a nice play call vs man, however the entire play is over before it begins.  Look at Guilbeau's tech and stance.  He's shading the sideline?  WTF, if you're man why are your playing outside shoulder when you have the entire field to guard against?  Only thing I could possibly surmise is he's a little confused with Barron jumping into coverage right in front of him at the snap.  Otherwise, this is terrible technique and terrible effort.  I don't give a shit if you're getting beat and then have a pick to get through.   Fucking truck that motherfucker in front of you and do everything you can to at least keep him out of the EZ. This is what pissed me off.  Bad technique and lousy effort from Guilbeau, who's had a very inconsistent year.  Texas has it's holes in the secondary and they were schemed against last week, namely Muhammad and our slot coverage.  Also, Hill look a little lost at times but our LBs are the weakness of the defense overall.

 

On 12/23/2024 at 3:38 PM, Thatguy said:

This is just absolutely monstrous route running. Manny Muhammed is never heard from in games for a reason. That reason is he is really good and sticky in coverage and quarterbacks just don't want to test him. However, he is a guy who plays the man instead of a guy who plays the ball like Barron does. He has good hips and feet and it's hard to lose him in coverage. So when you do throw it his way he is watching the receiver to see when the ball arrives so he can attack the catch area. To beat him you need to be able to get separation. Watch one Bryant Wesco Jr here. Fires off the line and sells the outside release like its a fade. When he gets Manny's hips turned he chops his route down and turns creating separation. Against Manny that's not enough because Manny has the feet to recover. However, instead of sitting and waiting on the ball to get to him Wesco comes back and attacks the football, preventing him from recovering and breaking it up. Just top notch route running that you don't see every week. This kid is good. Take note of the helmet. Never a tell that the ball is headed his way until it's actually in his hands.

 

 

 

 

Not sure why this is highlighted..... Basic comeback or curl out route run to perfection and beating Muhammad's brains in.  Muhammad isn't as good as most of the fanbase thinks he is.  He's solid and I expect to be pretty good next year with all the reps this year but there's a notable drop off from Barron to him.  Remember, we've played some pretty terrible passing QBs this season and our secondary was rarely stressed like this.

 

On 12/23/2024 at 4:41 PM, Thatguy said:

This is the play that made a lot of people mad. 4th and 6 and we have Trey Moore on the sideline. Simmons gets free but we get no pocket pressure on the other side so all Klubnik has to do is drift away from him and buy time to throw. On the back end we are playing zone. Everyone seems to do their job except Ant seemed to be focused on what the QB is doing and loses track of the man that ran past him. TD. There are two other dudes avail in case the QB takes off. Trust your teammates.

 

 

 

 

This is Hill just getting lost in Zone coverage.  There's trips out to the right and he's shading inside shoulder which is pretty regular but once the receiver crosses his face he needs to centering up.  Then another goes right behind him (although he had eyes on him coming his way) and Hill doesn't see him slip behind.  His head was not on a swivel as they say and he's lost in no man's land and panics a bit by taking two false steps to the boundary, when what he's taught to do is to drift to the inside and really be in line or mirrored with the QB.  Go back and looks where Klubnik throws this (inside the hash) and where Hill is when the ball is caught (a good foot outside of the boundary).  Basically, this is just bad football.  Poor pressure on the edge and Hill is basically lost in Zone and it's a pretty easy completion.  I'd be worried as shit about breakdowns like this going forward.  Bad QBs generally don't get to this read before they break the pocket and run.  Good QBs score TDs. 

 

On 12/23/2024 at 4:49 PM, Thatguy said:

Again, absolutely no pressure from Burke. Meanwhile Simmons beats his man around the end. Moore needs to be in there on passing downs but if you get to the line quickly the defense can't sub. On the back end Manny playing tight trail but the receiver stiff arms him at the last moment and creates separation. This kept happening to him so they kept going after him. Not many receiving corps can do this to him but here we are.

 

 

Again, not much to this.... Muhammad just getting his ass cooked.  IIRC, this is the play where Muhammad probably has an illegal chuck early but there is definitely OPI with the push off at the end to create the separation.  College refs will miss this one 80% of the time so don't expect to get this call. 

I'll say this, I don't like Muhammad's lack of hands or bump here.  He's playing tight man but basically allows a free get off.  Look as he doesn't really get a hand on him until his hips have swiveled and they're running.  That's generally bad tech as you got the sideline, try and push him towards the sideline cutting off the throwing zone and constricting space.  He doesn't do that here and ends up paying for it.  I would say this may be bad tech but again, not sure what they're being taught.  I'd also like to see him shading the inside shoulder instead of head up.  Feels like they're expecting a lot from their boundary guy if they're not going to bump at all.

Thanks for the post and discussion..... IMHO, I think we do have some things to be concerned about.  Again, our QB competition this year was underwhelming and the secondary will be tested like never before the rest of the way.  I think the question is, how much can they learn from this and how quickly can they get better.  I'm very concerned about our ability to cover inside receivers and back who can catch.  Very. 

I agree about the pressure but we don't get great pressure without Simmons generally and we're not deep with guys who are natural rushers.  Good dudes who have good motors and try hard but not a ton of natural guys with bend and have natural understanding of leverage.  

[RoyalBevo21 1,000]

On 12/23/2024 at 4:49 PM, Thatguy said:

Again, absolutely no pressure from Burke. Meanwhile Simmons beats his man around the end. Moore needs to be in there on passing downs but if you get to the line quickly the defense can't sub. On the back end Manny playing tight trail but the receiver stiff arms him at the last moment and creates separation. This kept happening to him so they kept going after him. Not many receiving corps can do this to him but here we are.

 

 

I was screaming at my TV on this play.

1. Watch their LTs hands the entire play. Simmons beats him on a speed rush immediately. He hooks Colin’s hip with his left hand, swings around then hooks his other hip with his right and holds on for dear life. If you pay attention to Simmons stride you can see at the end it gets choppy since he’s being held so badly he’s losing forward drive. I have no idea how the ref missed that bad of a hold? 
 

2. That ball was money from Klubnik. I don’t think there are 10 guys at the NCAA level that make that throw.

[RoyalBevo21 1,000]

[Thatguy 9,462]

13 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Shallow cross with a rub and pick, it's a nice play call vs man, however the entire play is over before it begins.  Look at Guilbeau's tech and stance.  He's shading the sideline?  WTF, if you're man why are your playing outside shoulder when you have the entire field to guard against?  Only thing I could possibly surmise is he's a little confused with Barron jumping into coverage right in front of him at the snap.  Otherwise, this is terrible technique and terrible effort.  I don't give a shit if you're getting beat and then have a pick to get through.   Fucking truck that motherfucker in front of you and do everything you can to at least keep him out of the EZ. This is what pissed me off.  Bad technique and lousy effort from Guilbeau, who's had a very inconsistent year.  Texas has it's holes in the secondary and they were schemed against last week, namely Muhammad and our slot coverage.  Also, Hill look a little lost at times but our LBs are the weakness of the defense overall.

 

 

And that's why in my post I questioned whether they were supposed to switch the routes if they crossed. That would be ideal and how high level defensive schemes deal with these man beaters by pattern matching. Either way Guilbeau is a liability. Bad technique is one thing. A general lack of effort is another. He is also awful at blitzing yet we keep firing him. Ugh.

Edited Wednesday at 05:36 PM by Thatguy

[Thatguy 9,462]

11 hours ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

I was screaming at my TV on this play.

1. Watch their LTs hands the entire play. Simmons beats him on a speed rush immediately. He hooks Colin’s hip with his left hand, swings around then hooks his other hip with his right and holds on for dear life. If you pay attention to Simmons stride you can see at the end it gets choppy since he’s being held so badly he’s losing forward drive. I have no idea how the ref missed that bad of a hold? 
 

2. That ball was money from Klubnik. I don’t think there are 10 guys at the NCAA level that make that throw.

Watch Burke's hands and watch Simmons' hands. I would be embarrassed if a true freshman had better hands than me. With any decent hand work at all Burke would be in Klubnik's face. A little bit of effort would affect this throw and they likely don't complete it. Burke should be better than this by now. You are right about Simmons getting manhandled as well.

[Thatguy 9,462]

14 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Shallow cross with a rub and pick, it's a nice play call vs man, however the entire play is over before it begins.  Look at Guilbeau's tech and stance.  He's shading the sideline?  WTF, if you're man why are your playing outside shoulder when you have the entire field to guard against?  Only thing I could possibly surmise is he's a little confused with Barron jumping into coverage right in front of him at the snap.  Otherwise, this is terrible technique and terrible effort.  I don't give a shit if you're getting beat and then have a pick to get through.   Fucking truck that motherfucker in front of you and do everything you can to at least keep him out of the EZ. This is what pissed me off.  Bad technique and lousy effort from Guilbeau, who's had a very inconsistent year.  Texas has it's holes in the secondary and they were schemed against last week, namely Muhammad and our slot coverage.  Also, Hill look a little lost at times but our LBs are the weakness of the defense overall.

 

Not sure why this is highlighted..... Basic comeback or curl out route run to perfection and beating Muhammad's brains in.  Muhammad isn't as good as most of the fanbase thinks he is.  He's solid and I expect to be pretty good next year with all the reps this year but there's a notable drop off from Barron to him.  Remember, we've played some pretty terrible passing QBs this season and our secondary was rarely stressed like this.

 

This is Hill just getting lost in Zone coverage.  There's trips out to the right and he's shading inside shoulder which is pretty regular but once the receiver crosses his face he needs to centering up.  Then another goes right behind him (although he had eyes on him coming his way) and Hill doesn't see him slip behind.  His head was not on a swivel as they say and he's lost in no man's land and panics a bit by taking two false steps to the boundary, when what he's taught to do is to drift to the inside and really be in line or mirrored with the QB.  Go back and looks where Klubnik throws this (inside the hash) and where Hill is when the ball is caught (a good foot outside of the boundary).  Basically, this is just bad football.  Poor pressure on the edge and Hill is basically lost in Zone and it's a pretty easy completion.  I'd be worried as shit about breakdowns like this going forward.  Bad QBs generally don't get to this read before they break the pocket and run.  Good QBs score TDs. 

 

Again, not much to this.... Muhammad just getting his ass cooked.  IIRC, this is the play where Muhammad probably has an illegal chuck early but there is definitely OPI with the push off at the end to create the separation.  College refs will miss this one 80% of the time so don't expect to get this call. 

I'll say this, I don't like Muhammad's lack of hands or bump here.  He's playing tight man but basically allows a free get off.  Look as he doesn't really get a hand on him until his hips have swiveled and they're running.  That's generally bad tech as you got the sideline, try and push him towards the sideline cutting off the throwing zone and constricting space.  He doesn't do that here and ends up paying for it.  I would say this may be bad tech but again, not sure what they're being taught.  I'd also like to see him shading the inside shoulder instead of head up.  Feels like they're expecting a lot from their boundary guy if they're not going to bump at all.

Thanks for the post and discussion..... IMHO, I think we do have some things to be concerned about.  Again, our QB competition this year was underwhelming and the secondary will be tested like never before the rest of the way.  I think the question is, how much can they learn from this and how quickly can they get better.  I'm very concerned about our ability to cover inside receivers and back who can catch.  Very. 

I agree about the pressure but we don't get great pressure without Simmons generally and we're not deep with guys who are natural rushers.  Good dudes who have good motors and try hard but not a ton of natural guys with bend and have natural understanding of leverage.  

Thanks for hopping in and commenting. We need more threads like this if you ask me. We have a lot of people here who see football from different perspectives depending on where their experience lies and it makes for good discussion.

[Longhornlove 5,231]

12 hours ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

Did he give Simmons a reach around?

[Stunns38 3,806]

Good commentary across the board. The D is ahead of schedule but we’re still Inexperienced in crucial spots.

[JBJ 3,830]

On 12/24/2024 at 11:53 AM, Dahobbs said:

b The blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone;

This is worded weird.  The tacklebox extends indefinitely backwards.  The ball being snapped into shotgun does not disintegrate the blocking zone.

It has to go 5 yards towards either sideline or 3 yards downfield.

Edited Wednesday at 07:32 PM by JBJ

[Hard Times 323]

One thing is for sure. ASU is going to take everything that worked well for Clemson and try to exploit the Texas D. Coach K and Joseph better get some of those things worked out or it's going to be a shootout.

[TheRRKid 239]

OP and Bateman pointed out already but I was impressed with Wesco’s ability to get separation at the top of his routes. Some of it is OPI but it’s been pointed out not to expect that call. How good are Oregon and Ohio St receivers at the dark arts of separation?

[sith_horn 2,537]

14 hours ago, RoyalBevo21 said:

I was screaming at my TV on this play.

1. Watch their LTs hands the entire play. Simmons beats him on a speed rush immediately. He hooks Colin’s hip with his left hand, swings around then hooks his other hip with his right and holds on for dear life. If you pay attention to Simmons stride you can see at the end it gets choppy since he’s being held so badly he’s losing forward drive. I have no idea how the ref missed that bad of a hold?

Collins is not the only edge who got held in that game. So while we weren't called for holding all night, they certainly were getting away with a lot of it. While "letting them play" is often lauded as the way to go, I personally think you should call holds and PI's that are obvious and let the ticky tack stuff go as the right way to deal with it. At least we weren't getting jobbed though which could have cost us the game.

I don't know if we held any or not in this game and as yet, have been unable to find a the full game posted on youtube. It's odd, because there are normally two or three different ones posted by this time.

I also thought there were a number of short ball spots.

[Dahobbs 18,434]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

This is worded weird.  The tacklebox extends indefinitely backwards.  The ball being snapped into shotgun does not disintegrate the blocking zone.

It has to go 5 yards towards either sideline or 3 yards downfield.

The tackle box is distinct and covered by a separate section (see below). But blocks in the back are controlled by the blocking zone, which is smaller (I provided the definition in the post you quoted). The blocking zone is called close-line play in the NFL or the free blocking zone in certain states governed by the National Federation of Highschools. 

Rule 2

SECTION 34. TACKLE BOX

ARTICLE 1. a. The tackle box is the rectangular area enclosed by the neutral

zone, the two lines parallel to the sidelines five yards from the snapper, and

Team A’s end line. (See Appendix D.)

b. The tackle box disintegrates when the ball leave

[Hookem10 894]

Great convo but I really think here at the end you just are who you are. Time to win by 1/2 a  point as needed. Each game is the season and it’s all about in game adjustments. I think the score has a lil more to do with the pass defense. I think the refs swallowed some flags also. It was great to see a team play above average and we still beat them by double digits. Once upon a time that game is a loss and we’re talking about the other team playing above average and how we blew it. I look forward to the next 3 one game seasons,  and yes I said 3 games. 

[utexas8 1,721]

This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.

This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.

[Longhornlove 5,231]

18 minutes ago, utexas8 said:

This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.

This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.

[utexas8 1,721]

This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.
This game was weird to me. I hosted a watch party so missed some things but the offense played well and the defense did too. Then the late 3rd and 4th quarter happened. The offense was fairly good, the 4th down stuff kinda messed them up but other than that I think they actually held their own. Then all of a sudden Clemson started scoring points. It wasn’t your typical, oh here goes Texas blowing a lead. Or maybe it was and didn’t notice because I was forced to be a damn host.

If we beat Oregon/tOSU I think we will win the whole thing. A big if, Oregon/tOSU both are complementary and if we can’t run the ball, then sayonara. I am worried after the Clemson game if the defense can hold up. The competition only gets better after asu. Or maybe klubnik had his Penix game against us and the defense is actually that good where it didn’t matter.

Can’t edit it now

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

On 12/23/2024 at 3:53 PM, Thatguy said:

 

 

 

 

This play just screams block in the back

[Dahobbs 18,434]

9 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

This play just screams block in the back

My guy, you have a problem with the rules as written, not me. 

Here are some ref discussions on this very issue:

https://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=14562.0

https://forum.officiating.com/football/38771-blooking-rules-shotgun.html

Under the rules, the blocking zone determines when you can legally block in the back. Under the rules, the blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the blocking zone. Under the rules, the blocking zone extends 3 yards longitudinally from the middle lineman and 5 yards laterally. If you have an exception to the rule that applies, point to it. Here is the rule book: https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4705-2024-ncaa-football-rules-book-online-only.aspx

I'm fine if you don't think it should be rule. As I said, this rule has changed a lot over the years. That's part of what makes the whole thing so confusing. You use to have a separate low blocking zone that now essentially is replaced by the tackle box definition (which is larger). Currently, the tackle box controls blocking below the waist. The blocking zone controls clipping and blocking in the back. 

 

 

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

Didn’t read a fucking thing

[Dahobbs 18,434]

2 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Didn’t read a fucking thing

I'm not convinced you can. 

[Thatguy 9,462]

5 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Didn’t read a fucking thing

 

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm not convinced you can. 

All of us have watched enough football to have seen that called had Guilbeau just turned the corner a little more. 

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

I just read the first link and it’s all about cut blocking you idiot.

EDIT:Seriously did you read your own fucking links? An 18 year 6 post discussion on the same exact thread from the first link.

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 

All of us have watched enough football to have seen that called had Guilbeau just turned the corner a little more. 

You don’t know ball

Edited 22 hours ago by StassneyHorn

[Thatguy 9,462]

10 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

I just read the first link and it’s all about cut blocking you idiot.

EDIT:Seriously did you read your own fucking links? An 18 year 6 post discussion on the same exact thread from the first link.

You don’t know ball

I've seen the tackle called for holding for running the rusher to the ground and both falling.

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

Yea that’s holding

[Dahobbs 18,434]

22 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

I just read the first link and it’s all about cut blocking you idiot.

EDIT:Seriously did you read your own fucking links? An 18 year 6 post discussion on the same exact thread from the first link.

You don’t know ball

They are about disintegration of the blocking zone specifically while in shotgun and how that affects blocking rules. Yes, they aren't specifically discussing blocking in the back. But it is the exact same general principle. Under the current NCAA rules, the blocking zone affects clipping and blocking in the back. 

Also, the two links are two separate forums discussing those issues. One is from 2019 and one is from 2007. They aren't the same thread. I'm not sure what you're talking about. That's like saying a post here and a post on the same topic on orange bloods are "the same exact thread". 

I'm not sure why you get a thrill out of trolling. Especially out of something mundane like this. Just read the rule book. Or continue to be ignorant. It makes no difference to me. Peace son and happy holidays. 

[StassneyHorn 6,790]

"That's like saying a post here and a post on the same topic on orange bloods are "the same exact thread".

Ok I'm arguing with a woman. 

It's not a block in the back penalty and your masculinity should be questioned for not knowing a simple thing like that in a very conclusive video.

[Enemy07 341]

Can someone just tell me who is right and who is wrong?

[TreatyOak 17,434]

On 12/25/2024 at 12:18 AM, RoyalBevo21 said:

When my daughter played youth soccer, the parents on the opposing team tried to show the ref (who was a teenager) their video after the game to show some of our team’s fouls, lol. He declined to watch it.