Film Study Why we struggled in pass defense vs Clemson(nothing to worry about folks)

[Dahobbs 18379]

5 hours ago, dcar00 said:

the rule is between the tackles and 3 yards on either side of the LOS I believe.  that said.  there is a ton of leeway given to OL or TE blocking blitzers or ends rushing in the back as they go by even if it is well behind the LOS

I get it doesn't get called often, but when the QB is in shotgun, because the ball immediately leaves the blocking zone, by rule the zone disintegrates, and any blocks in the back after the initial blocking action should be penalties. 

[kevwun 16446]

I think Howard just had the game of his life on Saturday.  He hasn't made throws like that all year.

[Thatguy 9445]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I do too and that is what I tried to convey - maybe I didn't word it well. 

No I got you which is why I agreed.

[Thatguy 9445]

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

I think Howard just had the game of his life on Saturday.  He hasn't made throws like that all year.

Tennessee plays primarily man and just fucked around and found out is all that was. Their weakness is their QB's ability to read complex defenses and throw into tight windows. Tenn decided "let's clear up his picture for him and try to man cover all 5 star receivers". I drool over the tOSU receiving corp. That's the one thing with us. We have never had top notch receivers. The closest we came was the trio, but even then they weren't as good as WE thought they were. I think that's why our fans think what we currently have is good until you turn on the TV and see what Oregon and tOSU have. Now running backs is a different story.

[StassneyHorn 6790]

9 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

You are wrong. Oline never get called for that as long as they're near the line of scrimmage. Every lookout block would be a block in the back then. Anytime a LB or DE drops a shoulder it would be called.

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by StassneyHorn

[Dark Horse 2436]

9 hours ago, Texas Flood said:

Wait is That Guy P?

Damn, I think you’re right. 

[Dahobbs 18379]

41 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.
 

It is literally the rule. Some of the things you're talking about in your post (e.g., the defender dropping a shoulder) are covered by other exceptions even if they occur outside the blocking zone. There is definitely some leeway given here as I don't think the exact parameters of the blocking zone (3 yards longitudinally and 5 yards laterally in each direction) are easy to see and enforce. The rules have changed over the year (e.g., getting rid of low-block zone in favor of a general blocking zone). I know other organizations have specifically addressed shotgun snaps disintegrating the blocking zone over the years, but I'm not entirely sure the NCAA has ever expressly addressed it in a casebook. But yeah, when the block in the back in question occurs 5 yards away from the line of scrimmage well after the initial contact and the ball is 10 yards away from the line of scrimmage, it is a penalty by rule. 

 

Rule 9

Section 3 Blocking, Use of Hands or Arms

ARTICLE 5 Blocking in the Back

A block in the back (other than against the ball carrier) is illegal (A R 9-3-3-I, VII and -IX; and A R 10-2-2-XII) Exceptions:

1 Offensive players who are on the line of scrimmage at the snap within the blocking zone (Rule 2-3-6) may legally block in the back in the blocking zone, subject to the following restrictions: (a) A player on the line of scrimmage within this blocking zone may not leave the zone, return and block in the back (b) The blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone (Rule 2-3-6)

2 When a player turns their back to a potential blocker who has committed themselves in intent and direction or movement

3 When a player attempts to reach a runner or legally attempts to recover or catch a fumble, a backward pass, a kick or a touched forward pass, they may push an opponent in the back above the waist (Rule 9-1-5 Exception 3)

4 When the opponent turns their back to the blocker under Rule 9-3-3-a-1-(b)

5 When an eligible player behind the neutral zone pushes an opponent in the back above the waist to get to a forward pass (Rule 9-1-5 Exception 4)

 

Rule 2

Section 3 Blocking

ARTICLE 6 Blocking Zone

a. The blocking zone is a rectangle centered on the middle lineman of the offensive formation and extending five yards laterally and three yards longitudinally in each direction

b The blocking zone disintegrates when the ball leaves the zone;

 

 

 

 

[Tex Pete 21500]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

@Dahobbs youre very clearly wrong and two others have given you an out by using "lot of leeway", "kinda depends" and "doesn't get called often" Thinking where a QB receives his snap is borderline r-word.

 

Stop being a fucking beating. He’s right. You’re wrong. 

[StassneyHorn 6790]

He literally proved me right with the definition you fucking CR gatekeeping bitch. You can disintegrate my dick.

Edited 8 hours ago by StassneyHorn

[sith_horn 2533]

Rod Babers goes into detail about secondary struggles in this video. I've linked it to start at 15:09 and he finishes around the 25 minute mark. He's about as good as it gets for secondary analysis.

 

[Jkwellborn 7053]

There is also a block in the back on Guilbreau that probably should be called there. It was a pretty blatant, full extension push once he got around the guard. Ref appears to be looking right at it, so I'm not sure why that doesn't get called. Probably didn't affect the play, but hard to say. 
 

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a block in the back called between the tackles or on a blitz.

[Jkwellborn 7053]

Wait is That Guy P?

I wondered that earlier in the season.

[Nivek 17422]

Damn, I think you’re right. 

Let me here him say ungghhh

[Pato del Muerto 53575]

3 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

Damn, I think you’re right. 

As in Pete?

[D3zii 3953]

2 hours ago, sith_horn said:

Rod Babers goes into detail about secondary struggles in this video. I've linked it to start at 15:09 and he finishes around the 25 minute mark. He's about as good as it gets for secondary analysis.

 

I agree with Rod. I’m not sure what’s going on with Gilbeaux but I could see limited snaps going forward, with more Holmes at CB and Barron back at Nickel, and I really hate that being from the same area plus all the snaps under his belt,  but he hasn’t shown any growth and has become a liability. 
 

I think Manny will be okay, think he’ll watch film, and have a great week of prep and come back focused. Could be lackluster with teams not going at him and probably not as focus on his technique.  And like Rod said, when the QB and WR do everything right, DB’s lose everytime and I think that happen a lot. 
 

Like I said Hill will be okay to, we’ve seen him drop in pass drops and be great at it, often getting INTs, just feel like the coaches put a lot on his plate and he felt like he had to make a play, instead of trusting his teammates. 

[Dark Horse 2436]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

As in Pete?

Guy Pierce

[Dahobbs 18379]

7 minutes ago, D3zii said:

I agree with Rod. I’m not sure what’s going on with Gilbeaux but I could see limited snaps going forward, with more Holmes at CB and Barron back at Nickel, and I really hate that being from the same area plus all the snaps under his belt,  but he hasn’t shown any growth and has become a liability. 
 

I think Manny will be okay, think he’ll watch film, and have a great week of prep and come back focused. Could be lackluster with teams not going at him and probably not as focus on his technique.  And like Rod said, when the QB and WR do everything right, DB’s lose everytime and I think that happen a lot. 
 

Like I said Hill will be okay to, we’ve seen him drop in pass drops and be great at it, often getting INTs, just feel like the coaches put a lot on his plate and he felt like he had to make a play, instead of trusting his teammates. 

Gilbeau is better in run support than coverage. But it also seemed like we ran a lot more variation in coverage than normal and maybe that is why a few guys got confused. We've been so good at quarters and cover 3 that we've rarely had to do much besides our base.

I do think we may see more of Barron back at nickel against more spready teams (especially teams like ASU without a high priority receiving threat). He may serve more utility there than just locking down one side of the field. 

[bullet 1631]

On 12/23/2024 at 4:24 PM, Thatguy said:

I apologize for the video. I couldn't find a full game copy anywhere so had to rip a few plays.

 

@Dahobbswas explaining a little bit of this to a fellow poster. ZSo thanks to him for getting the ball rolling. Let's get this out of the way right now. For those of you that didn't think Dabo was a good coach we just all fucked around and found out on Sat-ur-dee. Ole ball coach played us like a fiddle. They had a lovely opening script capped off with a double pick that we actually helped with but we will get to that in a minute. They got on the board first and then Sark and PK proceeded to drag their balls on Clemson's facemask by going on a 31-3 run. The offense did it's thing but PK's defense settled in and stymied the Clemson offense. However Dabo, as championship coaches do, found something. He sped up their offense when he got the right defensive personnel on the other side. Two things that did. We lost our pass rush because the guys caught in the game aren't the type that gets pressure. Second, when a defense is sped up they scrap the exotics and stick to simplistic defensive schemes like man v man or basic zone schemes. So by doing that they could slow our pass rush and manipulate our secondary. To do that your coaches have to be pretty savvy and have a QB with full command of the passing offense. So we shouldn't see that too often so we can all relax. If we do then PK is a dumb ass for falling for the same trick twice.

So let's get into it shall we?

I mean what the hell were the refs looking at here. First thing first I am wondering if this was a mistake by our secondary here to start. I know we are in man but instead of letting the routes tell us which man we are taking Barron and Guilbeau cross streams and allow the TE/Barron route to pick Guilbeau. The TE is literally blocking Barron well past the five yard mark for a pass that is being thrown past the line of scrimmage. Guilbeau is already out of position only to be physically blocked a second time, again for a pass thrown past the line. To miss an illegal pick once is bad but two times on the same play? Come on refs.

 

 

 

Two pretty flagrant blocks downfield.  Probably neither made a difference, but those weren't even subtle.

[BurntEyes 6336]

Many of the more knowledgeable folks here have already noted it, but I think PK is mixing in a lot of different coverages for 2 reasons. First is, Clemson/Klubnik was the best passing offense/QB we've faced this year. That many new packages/looks are going to cause some errors with the DBs. However, it also caused some issues for Klubnik which was exactly the point.

Second, getting some reps in and figuring it out as well as extra film to process by the opposing OC is critical if we end up facing Oregon (which i think we probably will). That's the best passing team out there, but when Ohio State is on, they aren't too far behind. (I'm far more concerned about the OSU D than O, personally) I think we'll see more of that mix against ASU, but I think we'll focus on making them 1 dimensional and force them to pass. That will also cause some hand-wringing here as it will open some passing lanes, but worth the price imo.

Edited 2 hours ago by BurntEyes

[Thatguy 9445]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Gilbeau is better in run support than coverage. But it also seemed like we ran a lot more variation in coverage than normal and maybe that is why a few guys got confused. We've been so good at quarters and cover 3 that we've rarely had to do much besides our base.

I do think we may see more of Barron back at nickel against more spready teams (especially teams like ASU without a high priority receiving threat). He may serve more utility there than just locking down one side of the field. 

Guilbeau has bad eye discipline and situational awareness. Manny hasn't really been tested because most teams don't have time to stand back and let routes develop down the field in long yardage situations. With them catching us with run stoppers on the field and not letting us sub you have to be more cautious as a DB and not jump on all the short stuff like you usually can because you know the ball has to come out. That's really all Manny was guilty of. These guys develop a clock in their heads and know when the ball should be out. Georgia is the same way. Their DBs are jumping short routes in long yardage situations because they know the QB cannot hold the ball.