Home Theater Upgrade.

[GottaB 594]

Back to an earlier question you asked I skipped: no I have not run the room adjustment in this setup.  I guess I'll order another mic.  I think they are $25 on amazon.  a drop in the bucket considering how much I might spend on speakers and I won't be replacing the receiver any time soon.  

The bookcases are there to stay unless I can be very convincing when we replace the rest of the seating in the room.  In the short term I might be able to swap the bookcases and the towers moving them closer to the TV and the speakers on the outside edge.  

It's a Gehan home, but you get the problems.  Windows on the left, no drapes.  Half wall on the right.  Tile.  Slanted Ceiling.  Not ideal.  

I tried wired and wireless (RF and bluetooth) headphones.  I do use wired ones late at night when my wife is sleeping. I really don't like it.  

I went by A&B to listen to the different klipsch speakers they offer.  I really like them, but their space is better, so a bit deceptive compared to what I would experience.  I like the idea of their RP-250 center and a pair of RP-160 bookshelf speakers with and a 110SW sub they had hooked up as a minor upgrade. Again, the sub I am more flexible on but I might opt for a wireless setup depending on where it sounds best.  The problem with the 160 bookshelf speakers is they won't fit in that bookshelf.  The RP150 would. A side benefit of moving from towers to bookshelf speakers is I could get those wider than the towers in that current setup.  

thinking longer term, I expect to have a dedicated home theater space eventually and the bookshelf speakers would make good surrounds when I add proper towers.

The setup that sounded awesome was a RP440c center, two RP250 floor standing speakers and a sub.   Again, it could all be a waste in my current space.  

The quote they ran me for a center, two speakers and a sub was pretty good.  If I hold off on the sub or look elsewhere, they were all within my budget.  

But first, get a mic....

 

[GottaB 594]

Found a mic thru a Walmart.com seller. Imagine that.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

Flip flopping the speakers and bookshelves does nothing to resolve the baffle effect that is caused by all the stuff between the speakers 'smearing' the imaging and would probably make it worse. That is why I asked you to pull them forward and see if the sound improved.

Those Klipsch are rear ported.  That isn't a good choice for putting in a bookshelf. Regardless of being called bookshelf speakers putting speakers in bookshelves is bad for sound quality. The least effected would be sealed(acoustic suspension) speakers.  NHT makes a few- https://www.nhthifi.com/products?categories=bookshelf-speakers The Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE fits the bill as well.  This solution would require a sub as they don't even try to do bass below 70hz so they aren't rattling the furniture they are in. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

 

[GottaB 594]

That makes sense. Hmm.

[GottaB 594]

The more you know....here are some guides that I have come across that speak to RIPs posts.  Thanks again. 

Common Mistakes When Setting Up a Home Theater System

https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/common-mistakes

Is Your Home Theater Setup Ruining Your Movie Experience?

https://www.hometoys.com/article/2010/10/is-your-home-theater-setup-ruining-your-movie-experience/1297/

Taming Bright Speakers and Reverberant Rooms

http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/speakers/taming-bright-speakers/902

[elfenix 34223]

LG 65" B7A OLEDs are $1700 at microcenter for Houston and Dallas surlies

 

 

[Knoxtnhorn 5971]

Gosh dangit what am I doing wrong?  I'm usually pretty good at hooking these things up....

I've got a Smart TV with a sound bar/sub woofer.  The sound bar has input for a digital optical cable, HDMI, and USB.  Problem is, I don't have (or see) an output from my tv for the digital optical cable.  I am currently running the digital optical cable from my DirectTV box to the sound bar which is fine for regular tv but doesn't help if I'm using an of the tv's smart functions - Netflix, YouTube, etc..

How or what would I use to get audio from the tv to the sound bar?  I plugged an HDMI cable from the tv to the sound bar.  I got a msg on the tv screen that it was switching to a different audio output but I never got sound.

[GottaB 594]

Does the sound bar or sub have an HDMI out? More specifically does it support ARC. You can connect tv (arc input) to sub (ARC) and the sub should act like TV speakers. Then DirecTv to sub.

ProTip: my Roku TV requires you to go activate the ARC functionality. It’s in the TV menu under advanced setting IIRC

[GottaB 594]

Panasonic soundbar sub ARC



TCL TV ARC input



TCL TV menu

[Knoxtnhorn 5971]

Thx.  I’ll look when I get home.

[Dutchrudder 11135]

I have 4 surround sound speakers in my ceiling that go back to a Denon receiver. If I get a sound bar to replace my very old l/r and center speakers, can I plug in those ceiling speakers?

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1603]

10 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I have 4 surround sound speakers in my ceiling that go back to a Denon receiver. If I get a sound bar to replace my very old l/r and center speakers, can I plug in those ceiling speakers?

To the sound bar or the receiver?  

[Dutchrudder 11135]

Either one. All the soundbars I have seen don't appear to work with other speakers, but I'm not really an audio guy, so I might be kissing something obvious.

 

 

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1603]

I'd need to see the inputs on the sound bar and output on the receiver.  

[GottaB 594]

From the sound bars I have owned, most used proprietary connections to their subwoofer.   You then use either optical/hdmi/stereo (red/white) inputs to connect to a TV.  Any receiver would have the same outputs as a television.  

Surround speakers use speaker wire to connect to the receiver.  I don't think you can use both.  

I have owned one soundbar that used speaker wire and was able to incorporate it into a full surround setup, but that was the exception.  

I have never seen a soundbar that would connect to other surround speakers directly.

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1603]

1 minute ago, GottaB said:

From the sound bars I have owned, most used proprietary connections to their subwoofer.   You then use either optical/hdmi/stereo (red/white) inputs to connect to a TV.  Any receiver would have the same outputs as a television.  

Surround speakers use speaker wire to connect to the receiver.  I don't think you can use both.  

I have owned one soundbar that used speaker wire and was able to incorporate it into a full surround setup, but that was the exception.  

I have never seen a soundbar that would connect to other surround speakers directly.

With the way sounds bars work, it may sounds a bit strange as well.

[GottaB 594]

yeah.  Agreed

[GottaB 594]

Wanted to give and update on my progress.

 

I got the MCACC mic in. Ran the setup. Still needed to replace speakers and add a center.

 

I went with Klipsch over Ascend Accoustic for two reasons. First I was able to hear them locally. Second, if I went with ascend I’d have to spend another $100-150 on stands. Seemed a waste.

 

Setup:

Pioneer VSX1020 Reciever (kept the same)

Klipsch RP-250f for L/R ($500)

Klipsch RP-450c for center ($400)

Klipsch R-10SWi ($250).

 

I kept the receiver because it was still working and didn’t need wireless though some day I might upgrade.

 

I did not go bookshelf speaker because they would be under sized for the center and the setup would look weird.

 

The center was the hardest decision. RP-250c vs 440 vs 450. The prices were $220, $350, $380. It just seemed like a good place to invest the money. I didn’t think it would be too big for the space and I got the biggest I could afford. Somewhere I read someone explain it that bigger sounds better even if you aren’t using it to it’s fullest ability.

 

As for the sub, I was going to wait. And I’ll eventually upgrade the one I got. But wireless kits run $100-200 alone so a speaker with wireless built in for $250 will work for now. Plus, most of the time we turn it way down when my wife is watching TV because she doesn’t care for it.

 

Result: I like it. In the end, I’ve spent a little more than I planned but I’m happy with it.

 

As for the quality of sound: we’ll see. I don’t hear the brightness yet. Maybe the MCACC adjustment tamed that beast. I’ll test it this weekend when the kids aren’t sleeping and make a better judgment.

 

Thank you guys for helping me put my money to meet my goals. (In a matching front set vs receiver).

 

[elnimo 55]

Recently bought a house and inherited the prior owner's Bose Soundtouch 520 system.  Its all wired into the ceiling of my living room.  I'm not an audiophile, so the speakers are ok for what I watch and listen to.  However, the head unit is a absolute POS.  It doesn't support the new HDMI 4k spec, so I cant pass through any HDMI into it.  Right now, all of my inputs run to my TV, and I have a fiber cable running to the Bose head unit.  To make it worse, Bose's "soundtouch" wireless adapter doesn't let me stream anything but satellite and internet radio to the head unit.  

I thought about buying a receiver with an fiber optic out and just jury rigging it like I am with my TV currently, but I can't find one.  I'd like to just trash the head unit and use the existing speakers (I want to avoid having to re-run wires etc).  I believe the sub is wireless and tied to the head unit, but I plan on buying a sub to use along with a new receiver.  Anyone attempted this (or know someone who has)?

[texasjacket 289]

Has anyone gone with a projector over tv?

[GottaB 594]

Has anyone gone with a projector over tv?

I used a projector for a while.
1) get a screen. I used a flat wall but still the texturing of the paint showed up in faces and it was odd.
2) It was exhausting for certain types of watching. I followed the guides for size and distance but some times it was too big.
3) some projectors are louder than others. It may seem like low fan noise at first but it can be annoying.
4) plan the whole setup and keep in mind how long the cables will need to run. HDMI cables have limits. There are solutions but still a consideration. I started out with the receiver and other equipment close to the projector but it was weird to turn around to change the channel.
5) bulbs can burn out. And they aren’t cheap. I bought the projector in 2009 for $800 and the bulb was $200.

My suggestion would be to go and look at a place that has both a projector and a huge TV side by side. The TV looks better to me, even if the size of the screen is smaller.

[solamente73 1132]

Posting here because I imagine that I'll be buying my first "home theater" stuff...

My 12yo 60 inch DLP died last night.  I haven't bought a TV in 9 years and don't know jack about today's TVs.  I want >60" screen and ability to use Roku and Apple TV, etc.  I've been told I'll likely want a "sound bar," which I had to google before going outside to yell at some kids on my lawn.  This sort of thing I'd usually research the hell out of and hunt for sales, but I have no time as I need a new TV for this weekend. 

Please edumacate me, wise Surly home theatre experts.

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1603]

1 hour ago, solamente73 said:

Posting here because I imagine that I'll be buying my first "home theater" stuff...

My 12yo 60 inch DLP died last night.  I haven't bought a TV in 9 years and don't know jack about today's TVs.  I want >60" screen and ability to use Roku and Apple TV, etc.  I've been told I'll likely want a "sound bar," which I had to google before going outside to yell at some kids on my lawn.  This sort of thing I'd usually research the hell out of and hunt for sales, but I have no time as I need a new TV for this weekend. 

Please edumacate me, wise Surly home theatre experts.

Check out Fry's as bby will typically always be more expensive, if you need one by this weekend.  If you can wait, you can snag an 82" Samsung UN82MU8000 82" Smart LED 4K brand new off ebay for around $2800.  Have one in the living room and love it.

Also make sure you look at distance charts to make sure you're getting the right size.  Here's a nice deal Fry's is running.

 

Sony 70" Class (69.5" Actual Diagonal Size) X690E Series LED 4K Ultra HDR Smart TV - $1299 was $1999

Edited April 11, 2018 by GlenFromTheMailRoom

[elnimo 55]

LG OLED B7A 65" is probably the best TV picture wise.  But if you go bigger than 65", then the Samsung/Sony "LED" tvs are going to be cheaper.

[NoRagrets 1125]

SVS makes great subs and for not a lot of money.

im a huge fan of magnapan speakers if you can find some on sale.

yamaha receivers are awesome and you can airplay really high quality sound through your phone.

[NoRagrets 1125]

Just now, NoRagrets said:

SVS makes great subs and for not a lot of money.

im a huge fan of magnapan speakers if you can find some on sale.

yamaha receivers are awesome and you can airplay really high quality sound through your phone.

SVS is online only, wait till Memorial Day for a sale

[GottaB 594]

Posting here because I imagine that I'll be buying my first "home theater" stuff...
My 12yo 60 inch DLP died last night.  I haven't bought a TV in 9 years and don't know jack about today's TVs.  I want >60" screen and ability to use Roku and Apple TV, etc.  I've been told I'll likely want a "sound bar," which I had to google before going outside to yell at some kids on my lawn.  This sort of thing I'd usually research the hell out of and hunt for sales, but I have no time as I need a new TV for this weekend. 
Please edumacate me, wise Surly home theatre experts.

Sound bars are ok. AVSforum people will tell you sound bars are a simple solution but only use them if you have no other choice.

If you are doing a common area setup, I think soundbars (plus a sub) are ok and easy to setup. If you are serious about watching movies and feeling the sound, or if you are setting up a true home theater you’d be looking at a receiver and a minimum of three speakers and a subwoofer.

Where are you? I ask because if I’m austin A&B tv have some great prices. Frys is another one if they have one on their promo code sales. Sign up for emails to get the code.

TV: I went with a Sony because their smart TV interface is android based and updated more frequently than say Panasonic’s interface.

Receiver: Yamaha gets good reviews, you can get a great deal on a Denon at Frys.

Subs: SVS get high reviews here and elsewhere. Good bang for the buck.

Soundbar? I dunno. I have a Panasonic and a Sony set that both work pretty good. Easy to use via ARC.

[solamente73 1132]

^^Thanks to all who posted above.  

It's a large family room, gonna have tots running around destroying things.  Viewing Distance Calculator says that we can take all the length width up to just over 85".  We'll watch movies but we aren't "serious" so not planning on surround sound, running wires through the walls, etc.

My understanding is that modern TVs have crappy built-in speakers, hence the supposed need for a sound bar (and I can see a subwoofer, too).  I assume that I'd need a receiver to run speakers external to the TV?  If so, about Yamaha...

I've had a Yamaha receiver running almost daily going on 26 years now, and I love it.  On the other hand, a friend of mine has gone through 3 Yamaha receivers in the last 7 years or so, and that has me concerned about the reliability of modern Yamahas.  Should I be concerned?

I guess I can go with 4K, but I don't even know how to find content in 4K.  Do I want a "smart tv?"  I have streaming boxes already, but I assume "smart tvs" are the standard.  What to look for, and avoid?  I just sure as hell don't want a TV that will watch me (camera) and listen in on my conversations (e.g. Alexa, Google Home, etc. capability).

I'm in DFW, btw.

[Chilly Water 415]

^True, most TV speakers are shit. They're okay for everyday shows but watching movies on them absolutely sucks. I've never been a fan of soundbars but with your situation that may be the way to go until the kids grow out of their random shit destruction phase. If you go with a sound bar you wont need a receiver as they usually power themselves.

You can get 4k content from Netflix (have to upgrade your plan), Amazon has a limited selection, and AppleTV has a ton of movies you can rent/download (got to have AppleTV 4K though). There's also 4K Blu-rays.

As for smart TVs, someone already mentioned it but its worth reiterating that the LG OLEDs have amazing picture quality but you're paying for it. I use a Harmony remote with mine so I don't think the TV can hear anything since it's mic is in the remote that came with it and that sits in a drawer with no batteries. 

[GottaB 594]

Yeah. Soundbars don’t need a receiver. They usually have HDMI, optical or RCA style stereo inputs. If you use the ARC HDMI input/output, the soundbar / sub will act like TV speakers. They turn on when the TV turns on and you use the TV remote to control the volume. It’s a really simple connection.

[GottaB 594]

Also, use https://www.rtings.com/ to check out your options for TVs

[Dutchrudder 11135]

Agree on the Sony TV rec. Switched from being a longtime Samsung user to Sony last year, and I love the Android TV. Don't even need a Firetv anymore, everything is built in. Even has a tuner for HD antenna and pulls in the program guide data for all the channels. Well worth the extra $200 over competitors. The picture is phenomenal on my 900xe.

 

 

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

I’m turning a dining room into a media room. It’s been a fun project.

 

Here is what we are putting in. Thoughts on equipment?

 

Samsung 65” 4K 8 series

Yamaha rx-a870

Ceiling rear channel - definitive technology

Center - definitive technology pro center 1000

Front -definitive technology pro monitor 1000

Sub - definitive technology supercube 4000

Power - Panamax power conditioner

 

 

PS4, appletv, roku, Philips hue lighting

 

Here are some pics of the project in progress

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dbeasy 15042]

I second the other poster’s comment about using wireless headphones. It’s a fantastic option if there are only two people watching. You can hear every word spoken and every sound effect. The traditional home theater setup worked very poorly for us due to a combination of high ceilings, large room size, and tile floors causing too much sound distortion.

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

Should we upgrade the bookshelf speakers to def tech d7s or D9s? Upgrade the center? Will it make a difference?

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

Any reason you're going with DefTech?  Are you open to other suggestion and if so budget?

A definite yes on upgrading the center as it is the workhorse of a HT.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:42 AM, texasjacket said:

Has anyone gone with a projector over tv?

I have a Sony HW45ES in a dedicated HT with 120" screen. Love it. Blacklab has one as well.

How well can you control light would be my first question?  Then I'd ask how good are you at do it yourself AV stuff?  As 75-86" 4K TVs with no need for a light controlled room are putting a lot of home theater installers out of business.

Edited April 13, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

Any reason you're going with DefTech?  Are you open to other suggestion and if so budget?
A definite yes on upgrading the center as it is the workhorse of a HT.

I told the Av installer that our budget was xx. However I talked to him today and we are upgrading the bookshelf and centers to the higher end D11s? He also said B&W 686 s2 could be a good option.

I don’t know frankly.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

Go listen to them and see which you like.

The B&Ws are going to have a warmer sonic signature than the DefTechs.  

The S2 is front ported which would be my preference in your set up.

EDIT- Found independent measurement and the B&Ws have the classic British sound with a low end bump and the DefTechs are much more neutral. 

Edited April 14, 2018 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

Cabinets painted.

[fattyflattie 4639]

I was really excited when I saw this thread. Now I'm depressed because I don't understand shit about home AV. I have a dedicated theatre room with a 70" tv. Speakers and projector area pre wired in ceiling. Need to do something soon re:sound. Right now don't have anything but TV. Would like to utilize ceiling speakers as I have young kids who like to touch things (bookshelf/stand type speakers) 

will keep reading this thread but lost af at moment. 

[GottaB 594]

You’re lost now? Head over to avsforums.

[ChickenSandwich 9828]

For those in Austin A&B is a great resource. 

 

For it ballers on a budget check out what ELAC and Andrew Jones are doing for rock bottom prices. They also have some cool wireless sub tech and enclosure-less in wall speakers. (Frys for demo)

 

I up graded to a full 4K pass through ATMOS system this year. Went with Marantz 7011 and Klipsch RP 280FA and matching rp450CA. Subs are dual rp 12s

added Tidal for the Hi Rez music and it’s a whole new experience from my previous denon/paradigm set up. Biggest surprise was how big of a difference dual subs does for room management. 

[Buzzrock 14903]

Projectors are loud? I used to have one of these lag bolted to the ceiling in my bonus room:



Loud as hell and I always wondered if it was going to fall off and kill someone. You haven’t experienced frustration until you’ve recalibrated a 3-gun CRT projector every time the seasons change. But in a dark room and dialed in it was 100” of glorious HD picture.

Another option for the input limited: I have a remote controlled HDMI switch in a spare bedroom where the TV is a professional grade display with a single HDMI input and the old receiver doesn’t have HDMI. I set it up with a Harmony remote and it handles all of the source a/v switching with no fuss.

Paradigms are the best sounding speakers I’ve heard but they ain’t cheap.

Yamaha and Denon receivers both been good to me. I have two sets of Mirage speakers and I like them a lot. They don’t make them any more though.

Question for the group: does anyone have one of the LG OLED’s? Supposed to be the best TV ever made. I’m about to have about a $2K credit at Amazon burning a hole in my pocket and haven’t taken the plunge on 4K yet.

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

Projectors are loud? I used to have one of these lag bolted to the ceiling in my bonus room:



Loud as hell and I always wondered if it was going to fall off and kill someone. You haven’t experienced frustration until you’ve recalibrated a 3-gun CRT projector every time the seasons change. But in a dark room and dialed in it was 100” of glorious HD picture.

Another option for the input limited: I have a remote controlled HDMI switch in a spare bedroom where the TV is a professional grade display with a single HDMI input and the old receiver doesn’t have HDMI. I set it up with a Harmony remote and it handles all of the source a/v switching with no fuss.

Paradigms are the best sounding speakers I’ve heard but they ain’t cheap.

Yamaha and Denon receivers both been good to me. I have two sets of Mirage speakers and I like them a lot. They don’t make them any more though.

Question for the group: does anyone have one of the LG OLED’s? Supposed to be the best TV ever made. I’m about to have about a $2K credit at Amazon burning a hole in my pocket and haven’t taken the plunge on 4K yet.

I considered splurging on that tv but purpose of room I am building is really to get the fucking teenagers in my house out of the way - so I talked myself of it. Everything in my room I am building is pretty mid- range.

That said - if I was building this for me hell ya I’d do it. My av contractor just installed one at ACC. It’s pretty incredible for watching golf.

[ChickenSandwich 9828]

13 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Projectors are loud? I used to have one of these lag bolted to the ceiling in my bonus room:



Loud as hell and I always wondered if it was going to fall off and kill someone. You haven’t experienced frustration until you’ve recalibrated a 3-gun CRT projector every time the seasons change. But in a dark room and dialed in it was 100” of glorious HD picture.

Another option for the input limited: I have a remote controlled HDMI switch in a spare bedroom where the TV is a professional grade display with a single HDMI input and the old receiver doesn’t have HDMI. I set it up with a Harmony remote and it handles all of the source a/v switching with no fuss.

Paradigms are the best sounding speakers I’ve heard but they ain’t cheap.

Yamaha and Denon receivers both been good to me. I have two sets of Mirage speakers and I like them a lot. They don’t make them any more though.

Question for the group: does anyone have one of the LG OLED’s? Supposed to be the best TV ever made. I’m about to have about a $2K credit at Amazon burning a hole in my pocket and haven’t taken the plunge on 4K yet.

Many have them because they are both a great deal and one of the best pictures. Go look at some and compare them to the high end LCDs from Sony. The LCD still handle black and gray nuance better. And avoid “black crush”. Both OLED and LCD have the absolute darkest blacks which make the experience. For the money the LG is the best thing running, only problem I’ve had is their software and homelink sound functions when trying to work with high end receivers. Takes some trial and error to get it to work right. 

The other consideration is size. 65 inches is the limit of affordability at this time of OLED. You can get into the LCD 75,85 inch range for half the price of the same size OLED. Sony is releasing an 85 Bravia for under 5000 this year. Full HDR, DOLBY VISION compatible. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[GottaB 594]

17 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Projectors are loud? 

To me it was a like a fly buzzing behind my head every time there was a quiet scene.  I'd prefer a 65" LCD over 10 foot screen + projector.  

[Buzzrock 14903]

To me it was a like a fly buzzing behind my head every time there was a quiet scene.  I'd prefer a 65" LCD over 10 foot screen + projector.  

Yeah that was tongue in cheek.

Just checked the prices on the 65” LG OLEDs and they are still more than I want to spend. I have a 60” plasma now that’s pretty nice so I can hold out a little longer.

[Tyler Durden 132]

13 hours ago, GottaB said:

You’re lost now? Head over to avsforums.

Do that and you will decide anything but the latests and greatest is absolute shit.  The black colors on your TV aren't dark enough.

[wreckatx 141]

I currently have a samsung sound bar hooked up to my living room TV with a digital optical hook up. It has a wireless subwoofer and works great for tv and movies.  Small living room.

That said, I'm remodeling a house right now and looking into ceiling/wall mounted speakers in different rooms and back porch.  Anyone have any recommendations for a set up?  I am looking at Sonos, but I have no idea what I am doing.