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3rd Qtr vs ASU. What went wrong?


Thatguy

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Now it's second and 18. We are still in 12 personnel. ASU basically has 8 men in the box again. We run a toss to the boundary and we actually block it up pretty well. Our TEs double team the playside DE. Banks washes down the 3-tech DT. We pull Majors and Conner. Majors sees the backside pursuit shoot the gap and peels back to handle him. Conner takes he corner around the end. The problem is they just had too many hats. Wisner makes the 1st guy miss and picks up 6.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Now it's second and 18. We are still in 12 personnel. ASU basically has 8 men in the box again. We run a toss to the boundary and we actually block it up pretty well. Our TEs double team the playside DE. Banks washes down the 3-tech DT. We pull Majors and Conner. Majors sees the backside pursuit shoot the gap and peels back to handle him. Conner takes he corner around the end. The problem is they just had too many hats. Wisner makes the 1st guy miss and picks up 6.

 

 

 

One of the best runs of the day sadly, out of the pistol no less.

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So now we are in 3rd and 12. Sark finally trots out 11 personnel but the probability of picking this up low. Arizona State does a great job of covering the receivers downfield. Quinn tries to take off but gets sacked. This all starts from 1st down. We have to call better 1st down plays.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Longhornlove said:

If you want to continue to run that OZ with the RB offset, you are gonna have to run some counter out of the same formation IMO. The OZ PA pass has been disastrous. I bet we have more sacks on that play than any other.

Agreed. Just exposes your QB too much. If the backside of the defense doesn't bite he is all there by his lonesome. I would rather him boot out the back. He throws well on the move so that with a levels concept should work. Maybe he should go talk to Shanahan.

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Having the read the zone patiently behind the los back play the play the same from the end zone was also a bad look.

 You can’t punish teams for cheating on the backside if you don’t get downhill fast.

 Wisners patience paid off against aggy and Clemson with bigger nfl bodies committing themselves in a direction, but it’s garbage against asu or Georgia or any other team only trying to inflict chaos.

 

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20 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Agreed. Just exposes your QB too much. If the backside of the defense doesn't bite he is all there by his lonesome. I would rather him boot out the back. He throws well on the move so that with a levels concept should work. Maybe he should go talk to Shanahan.

I drew this up really quickly just to show y'all what I mean. Fake the stretch play and Quinn keeps it and boots out the back door. You pull Helm across the formation like he is kicking out the DE and he keeps  going out into the flat. The backside TE, Juan Davis, seals the DE from pursuing Quinn. The backside receiver runs a deep corner. Playside receiver runs a deep drag. You can run a screen back to the other side as well off this as the pursuit is now flowing with the QB.

 

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9 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

Did Davis miss his assignment? I originally thought that was Golden but he didn't have the leverage to pick that guy up.

Looks like he thought he was supposed to double the edge but his responsibility should've changed as soon as 7 walked down to the LOS. So it looks like it. Either way Golden had a shot at him and whiffed too.

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47 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

So now we are in 3rd and 12. Sark finally trots out 11 personnel but the probability of picking this up low. Arizona State does a great job of covering the receivers downfield. Quinn tries to take off but gets sacked. This all starts from 1st down. We have to call better 1st down plays.

 

 

Ewers was gunshy on this one, I had it as one of his 4 mistakes on the day. Wingo was a pretty easy playside read with his CB bailing way past the sticks and Wingo runs a wide open comeback with room to spare. Not a big mistake but a convertible opportunity.

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4 minutes ago, TheYoungHorn said:

This is part of why even with the stellar backs he has had here sarks run game has struggled in red zone.

 Don’t help the defense by condensing the edge and bringing additional bodies into the box.

only do that when you have an execution advantage with the extra blocker.

 

and davis and even JT sanders have never been that.

 

 Hell even helm is more of a shielder than a punishing set the edge or crash down guy

This correct and why we were so much better when we brought Agbo in as a TE. I wrote this elsewhere but Sark's playbook and do not match. To run out of 12 personnel bunch sets your receivers and TEs need to be big and physical. Most of our receivers are CB size so they lose physical battles with aggressive DBs. Our TEs aren't great blockers either. Our backs are undersized and go down easy with contact. We are better when we spread the field.

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For as often as he plays, Juan Davis gives us almost nothing as a receiver and mainly serves as just a warm body as a blocker. PFF has him as one of the worst run-blocking TE’s in the country as of a few weeks ago and I’m assuming that hasn’t changed the last two games.

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ewers was gunshy on this one, I had it as one of his 4 mistakes on the day. Wingo was a pretty easy playside read with his CB bailing way past the sticks and Wingo runs a wide open comeback with room to spare. Not a big mistake but a convertible opportunity.

There was a linebacker in the throwing lane. I am sure he was thinking about tipped ball INTs and decided to tuck it. It's possible he could've gotten it by him. To be truthful there are other throws available but a miss means INT.

 

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1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

 So we have a whole week to fill in before we put a foot in Brutus' ass. So why not fill our down time arguing about what went wrong in the 3rd quarter. We will eventually address other parts of the game, but right now let's look at the 3rd quarter on offense.

 

Sark comes out in 12 personnel. ASU basically has 8 men in the box and has a double linebacker blitz on. The worst thing we could do is run a slow developing, back to the field play action pass where our QB has to quickly diagnose where his hot man is while guys come untouched through the A-gap. So what does Sark call? A very slow developing back to the field play action pass. First thing you notice is Gunner Helm flashes open in the middle. Now I know that SOME of you guys are going to say I am making an excuse for Quinn when I say this but Helm has to sit his route down. By continuing across the formation your QB is going to have to look to see who is in front of you which takes more time. If you sit down in the open zone he can comfortably let the ball go. Regardless, this is an example of bad Sark. Too many times you put your guy in bad positions and literally kill a drive on the first play with calls like this. This same play without the play action and Quinn probably sees Helm quicker and gets the ball out. On to second down.

 

 

 

Definition of targeting, missed. 

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

So now we are in 3rd and 12. Sark finally trots out 11 personnel but the probability of picking this up low. Arizona State does a great job of covering the receivers downfield. Quinn tries to take off but gets sacked. This all starts from 1st down. We have to call better 1st down plays.

 

 

Seen this type of hit called targeting plenty. Another miss. 
 

 

59 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

And I don't even need to talk about this bulljunk. I will just post it.

 

 

look at all those guys targeting ewers after the one guy speared wisner. 
 

it’s worse than I thought.  Eye-opening. 

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17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

There was a linebacker in the throwing lane. I am sure he was thinking about tipped ball INTs and decided to tuck it. It's possible he could've gotten it by him. To be truthful there are other throws available but a miss means INT.

 

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Where did you get all22? Was this just used on main broadcast as a replay?

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How much PA did we use in the last two drives of the fourth and the two OT drives?   Does anyone remember?  My working  theory during the game was the slow developing stuff and too much PA (when the run game is stalled) gets in Quinn’s way of slinging the ball down field effectively.  

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I drew this up really quickly just to show y'all what I mean. Fake the stretch play and Quinn keeps it and boots out the back door. You pull Helm across the formation like he is kicking out the DE and he keeps  going out into the flat. The backside TE, Juan Davis, seals the DE from pursuing Quinn. The backside receiver runs a deep corner. Playside receiver runs a deep drag. You can run a screen back to the other side as well off this as the pursuit is now flowing with the QB.
 
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There’s literally a play in the Texas playbook on NCAA like that.
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7 minutes ago, troph said:

How much PA did we use in the last two drives of the fourth and the two OT drives?   Does anyone remember?  My working  theory during the game was the slow developing stuff and too much PA (when the run game is stalled) gets in Quinn’s way of slinging the ball down field effectively.  

Do you have a game copy? We started dropping straight back and slinging it.

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2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Do you have a game copy? We started dropping straight back and slinging it.

That’s what I remember and it’s when I think QE is at his best … well that and when our running game is humming. 
 

I really think PA is a complete waste when the run game is stalled like it was. I also think sark needs to play straight up when he’s got the talent advantage and mix in the cute stuff. Spread the field, shot gun, 3 step, 5 step drop backs and sling the fucking thing.

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1 minute ago, troph said:

That’s what I remember and it’s when I think QE is at his best … well that and when our running game is humming. 
 

I really think PA is a complete waste when the run game is stalled like it was. I also think sark needs to play straight up when he’s got the talent advantage and mix in the cute stuff. Spread the field, shot gun, 3 step, 5 step drop backs and sling the fucking thing.

PA only works if the defense fears the run, they certainly didn't fear it.

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57 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Ewers was gunshy on this one, I had it as one of his 4 mistakes on the day. Wingo was a pretty easy playside read with his CB bailing way past the sticks and Wingo runs a wide open comeback with room to spare. Not a big mistake but a convertible opportunity.

There was a great pocket on this play as well. Absolutely no reason for Quinn to try to tuck and run.

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29 minutes ago, troph said:

How much PA did we use in the last two drives of the fourth and the two OT drives?   Does anyone remember?  My working  theory during the game was the slow developing stuff and too much PA (when the run game is stalled) gets in Quinn’s way of slinging the ball down field effectively.  

Quinn had 6 completions off of play action total. 

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Play-calling hindsight has to be one of the dumbest things in this sport.

The University of Texas is not paying Steve Sarkisian millions of dollars every season to not know what the fuck he's doing. 

There are dozens of jobs out there paying guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to design offenses and call plays for them. If y'all are such geniuses then go get one of those jobs. 

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9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Play-calling hindsight has to be one of the dumbest things in this sport.

The University of Texas is not paying Steve Sarkisian millions of dollars every season to not know what the fuck he's doing. 

There are dozens of jobs out there paying guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to design offenses and call plays for them. If y'all are such geniuses then go get one of those jobs. 

Lol tf

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Ok so I looked at my YouTube TV recording …

QE leads us on 4 straight scoring drives … almost no play action. 

4th quarter - drive 1:

swing pass to Blue - no PA

run

pass to Helm up the seam - no PA

run for shit 

pass to Golden to the sideline - no PA

another pass attempt to golden - incomplete - no PA

pass attempt - incomplete didn’t write down who or what - PA used.

scramble - no PA

missed FG

note - 2 false starts 

4th quarter - drive 2:

Pass to golden on an out - no PA

pass to helm on a curl - no PA

pass to wingo - no PA

pass to wingo on a slant - no PA

run for shit 

Swing pass to wisner - no PA 

Missed FG

note 1 false start

OT - drive 1:

PA pass incomplete

run for shit 

pass to Moore - no PA - inexcusable spin to the boundary and gains 1 yard not 5-6.

TOUCHDOWN to Golden - no PA

note 1 false start

OT - drive 2:

TOUCHDOWN Helm -  PA - this was a brilliant PA call honestly. 

Two point conv - no PA to golden 


12-15 passing over came 4 false starts and only 3 PA passes.  Kid balled his ass off when he was asked to sling it with very few  PA diversions. And only the Helm TD was worth a shit on PA.

 

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13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Play-calling hindsight has to be one of the dumbest things in this sport.

The University of Texas is not paying Steve Sarkisian millions of dollars every season to not know what the fuck he's doing. 

There are dozens of jobs out there paying guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to design offenses and call plays for them. If y'all are such geniuses then go get one of those jobs. 

 

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And the thing about the helm TD - it was a bit of deception, very well designed and used after Quinn had had three straight drives where he just fucked Az St straight up. The play wasn’t an after thought PA pass it included a pulling guard and a fake to the back with helm wiggling through across the defense before turning up field. Great call for sure but after three drives of aggressive fuck uou we are throwing it and you won’t stop us offense. 
 

it’s exactly how sark should use PA and his deception plays. First you punch them in the face repeatedly then you can use deception to go for the jugular. That’s sark at his best. 

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Just for a little added context here on the play action.  Ewers has a higher completion percentage, better TD/Int rate, higher yards per attempt and better sack rate with play action than with no play action.

The lack of a run within a game is likely not that impactful within a game.  The team prepares on what you’ve done collectively and with how they expect them to attack.  It’s gonna be difficult in game to ask your 2nd and 3rd level defenders to not react to what they’ve practiced for two weeks.  And it’s likely that if the run defense is successful, it will reinforce them to react to play action in a similar manner because they’re likely playing downhill.

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