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3rd Qtr vs ASU. What went wrong?


Thatguy

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Going back to the very first post in this thread, it's very easy to criticize the play call with the hindsight that they were going to blitz both inside linebackers.   However, an experienced QB should have read the blitz and checked into a different play, or he should have gotten rid of the ball and not taken a sack if the blitz was sufficiently disguised before the snap.  Frankly, it was pretty ballsy of them to blitz both LBs on a first down play.  Were we showing tendencies? 

Quinn has the athletic skills, but he has not developed his game management skills given his experience.  Is that due to coaching or are his game management skills inherently subpar? 

Fans always want to criticize play calling because it's easy to do.  However, there are far more moving parts that fans don't see.  Any criticism of Sark should relate to QB development, or perhaps sacrificing the good of the team for a player's NFL chances (like Calapari does with getting players to the NBA).

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5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

First thing-It was a dumb defensive call in hindsight but how many times do we throw the corner? Their defense looked like they expected that route we threw and missed vs Georgia when Golden stuck his foot in the ground and faked the out cut. They jumped on it, then he cut it back vertical and was wide open. Bond or Wingo would round those cuts off(not sell it well at all) and it would be a contested catch. Good route running.

 

Those two throws off play action were good but how many unsuccessful ones did we have to trade for those? If you are far less successful than not you should probably not base your offense on it. You are right though. Sark is going to run it regardless so put your seatbelt on.

It was 4th and 13.  They had momentum.  Banks just false started right?  We were a bit shaken.  We get 12 yards game over.  
 

You talk about us going 5-wide to make reads easier. That’s what they did for us.  Moore was likely not the option - believe he ran short of the sticks.  So it’s Wingo or Golden.  Luckily Golden abused his man.  All the mental work was done presnap.  Sark said in an interview they’d worked on that look.  So kudos to all for that Golden route.

The best odds of conversion in that situation will always be man on man.  ASU had a defender about 3 yards off the ball, another about 8-10 yards deep guarding grass effectively playing with 9.  The single high safety guarding the first down line.

For me, that’s never hindsight in that situation.  It’s a shortened field so Ewers is not likely to run for a first against a zone.  He’s been reluctant all year to let it rip in that intermediate area.  You have to make the offense think a bit post snap then make a contested throw and catch.

 

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1 hour ago, Jon Bovi said:

Going back to the very first post in this thread, it's very easy to criticize the play call with the hindsight that they were going to blitz both inside linebackers.   However, an experienced QB should have read the blitz and checked into a different play, or he should have gotten rid of the ball and not taken a sack if the blitz was sufficiently disguised before the snap.  Frankly, it was pretty ballsy of them to blitz both LBs on a first down play.  Were we showing tendencies? 

Quinn has the athletic skills, but he has not developed his game management skills given his experience.  Is that due to coaching or are his game management skills inherently subpar? 

Fans always want to criticize play calling because it's easy to do.  However, there are far more moving parts that fans don't see.  Any criticism of Sark should relate to QB development, or perhaps sacrificing the good of the team for a player's NFL chances (like Calapari does with getting players to the NBA).

I think there is a few things you can question. This is just my opinion, but I thought Sark’s playing calling got Quinn going. Quinn throws the pick. Next series Sark starts out with a target to motion. I think they ran 3-4 on that drive. Great move by Sark, but where was it the whole game? We love running targets to motion vs top competition. Not sure why it disappears for long portions of games. Ran a lot of empty late. Another formation you ask where was it earlier. ASU couldn’t get a pressure. DBs couldn’t stay with the receivers. It cleans up pre-snap reads for Quinn. I feel that sometimes coaches get too concerned about balance at the expense of where you have the advantage (OSU learned that vs Michigan). 

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13 hours ago, ztejas said:

Play-calling hindsight has to be one of the dumbest things in this sport.

The University of Texas is not paying Steve Sarkisian millions of dollars every season to not know what the fuck he's doing. 

There are dozens of jobs out there paying guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to design offenses and call plays for them. If y'all are such geniuses then go get one of those jobs. 

Truth

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22 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I think there is a few things you can question. This is just my opinion, but I thought Sark’s playing calling got Quinn going. Quinn throws the pick. Next series Sark starts out with a target to motion. I think they ran 3-4 on that drive. Great move by Sark, but where was it the whole game? We love running targets to motion vs top competition. Not sure why it disappears for long portions of games. Ran a lot of empty late. Another formation you ask where was it earlier. ASU couldn’t get a pressure. DBs couldn’t stay with the receivers. It cleans up pre-snap reads for Quinn. I feel that sometimes coaches get too concerned about balance at the expense of where you have the advantage (OSU learned that vs Michigan). 

All I can figure is that sometimes Sarkisian feels like he can just sit on the ball and shorten the game. But going 3 and out doesn’t accomplish that. It just makes no sense, yet we go completely silent in 3rd quarters every week. 

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16 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

All I can figure is that sometimes Sarkisian feels like he can just sit on the ball and shorten the game. But going 3 and out doesn’t accomplish that. It just makes no sense, yet we go completely silent in 3rd quarters every week. 

I think you hit the nail on the head. We are up in all these games and from a playcalling perspective we seem to be trying to take the air out of the ball for the most part. Even against Georgia we came out slinging it all over and then inexplicably just shut it down.

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1 hour ago, Jon Bovi said:

Going back to the very first post in this thread, it's very easy to criticize the play call with the hindsight that they were going to blitz both inside linebackers.   However, an experienced QB should have read the blitz and checked into a different play, or he should have gotten rid of the ball and not taken a sack if the blitz was sufficiently disguised before the snap.  Frankly, it was pretty ballsy of them to blitz both LBs on a first down play.  Were we showing tendencies? 

Quinn has the athletic skills, but he has not developed his game management skills given his experience.  Is that due to coaching or are his game management skills inherently subpar? 

Fans always want to criticize play calling because it's easy to do.  However, there are far more moving parts that fans don't see.  Any criticism of Sark should relate to QB development, or perhaps sacrificing the good of the team for a player's NFL chances (like Calapari does with getting players to the NBA).

You have no idea who is allowed to audible to a different play. Calling protections is one thing. Changing plays is another. Watch games. The defense looks to blitz on a hard count and all the players look to the sideline. Coach is changing the play. So maybe they aren't allowed to do that.

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3 hours ago, Hard Times said:

I can't help but laugh when people make this argument. A person who didn't play football doesn't have a chance in hell of getting a coaching job. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the average IQ of a Nividia employee is much higher than the average football coach. Two of the dumbest guys I ever worked with were former FB players. One played for Blowu and one for Bama. It was obvious they were there for only 1 reason.

Hugh Freeze would like a word with you once he gets off the phone with his escort service. 

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49 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

All I can figure is that sometimes Sarkisian feels like he can just sit on the ball and shorten the game. But going 3 and out doesn’t accomplish that. It just makes no sense, yet we go completely silent in 3rd quarters every week. 

If he’s looking to shorten the game then they should, you know, use up the play clock and actually shorten the game. 

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Let's move on to other series like the second series of the game. We just came out and scored on ASU in two plays. We are in 11 personnel. This is something I complain about regularly. Y'all are going to get mad here so be ready.

 

1st and 10 and we run the usual slow developing play action fake. These kinds of plays require the defense to live in fear of teams running downhill on you. We try to pull Conner to pick up the DE and he just can't get there. The only way this works is if the DE fears run and pauses to check for it. If the DE just makes a beeline for the QB there is no way Conner can get to him. This play is just doomed from a schematic point with ASU being flat out quicker than us.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Let's move on to other series like the second series of the game. We just came out and scored on ASU in two plays. We are in 11 personnel. This is something I complain about regularly. Y'all are going to get mad here so be ready.

 

1st and 10 and we run the usual slow developing play action fake. These kinds of plays require the defense to live in fear of teams running downhill on you. We try to pull Conner to pick up the DE and he just can't get there. The only way this works is if the DE fears run and pauses to check for it. If the DE just makes a beeline for the QB there is no way Conner can get to him. This play is just doomed from a schematic point with ASU being flat out quicker than us.

 

 

 

Only 4/5 defenders in the box? QE should've checked to a run there, IMO.

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If the run fake isn’t to that de’s side, why would he pause?  For this play, he would be coming hard inside whether he thought the rb or qb had the ball. Especially with the te in motion reversing and staying left- everything says a run is going left and he would be backside pursuit. 

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So now it's second down and we are already behind the sticks. We are in 11 personnel and Sark decides to call a run play despite ASU having 7 in the box, which is one more than you can block. We block it up really well considering. Everyone has a hat. Majors makes it the second level. We loop Helm up the A-gap as a lead. However, ASU just has too many to block. This pops for big yardage if they were playing us straight up but they are loading the box. Should've checked out of this to a pass play.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If the run fake isn’t to that de’s side, why would he pause?  For this play, he would be coming hard inside whether he thought the rb or qb had the ball. Especially with the te in motion reversing and staying left- everything says a run is going left and he would be backside pursuit. 

Normally a DE would crash down the line to pursue the back. But if you know you've got a gap sound blitz on you can ignore that and go get the QB.

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15 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

For as often as he plays, Juan Davis gives us almost nothing as a receiver and mainly serves as just a warm body as a blocker. PFF has him as one of the worst run-blocking TE’s in the country as of a few weeks ago and I’m assuming that hasn’t changed the last two games.

His role seems to have steadily increased in the last quarter of the season too.

 

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2 hours ago, Jon Bovi said:

Going back to the very first post in this thread, it's very easy to criticize the play call with the hindsight that they were going to blitz both inside linebackers.   However, an experienced QB should have read the blitz and checked into a different play, or he should have gotten rid of the ball and not taken a sack if the blitz was sufficiently disguised before the snap.  Frankly, it was pretty ballsy of them to blitz both LBs on a first down play.  Were we showing tendencies? 

Quinn has the athletic skills, but he has not developed his game management skills given his experience.  Is that due to coaching or are his game management skills inherently subpar? 

Fans always want to criticize play calling because it's easy to do.  However, there are far more moving parts that fans don't see.  Any criticism of Sark should relate to QB development, or perhaps sacrificing the good of the team for a player's NFL chances (like Calapari does with getting players to the NBA).

 Criticism of sark or Quinn should also include putting Quinn in bad and long third and fourth down positions where Quinn has to be a hero or he’s a failure. Thankfully the last time he was asked to be the hero he called the protection, golden ran a beautiful route and the TD happened but you can objectively look at the false starts and some of the play calling and see sark deficiencies. 

and to be clear, Quinn touches the ball every down, and he made mistakes (probably no more than 5-6 mistakes all game) but in the ASU game the biggest failure was sark and his play calling and/or schematic design.  Anyone who thinks otherwise imo did not pay attention to what was happening.

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ASU made some solid half time adjustments 

with the money Texas has, i'd expect 3 seasoned football analysts, on offense and defense. 2 on special teams. 1 dedicated to two point conversion plays. this  team needs to hand sark, the oc and dc and script of adjustments at half time. these are all people outside the coaching staff. the coaching staff needs to focus on the field coaching. a lot  going on out there 

the 2 point specialist has to have a list of plays against that second half D ready to go, for end of game play and OT 

not sure if non coaching staff can be interacting with the coaching staff during game play 

 

 

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So now it's 3rd and 12 and you are asking your QB, again, to pick up 12 or more for a 1st. We send both Wingo and Golden both on 9's and both are open. Ewers just underthrows it. Wingo has no idea where the ball is. Thankfully neither does the DB. At this point why are we calling shots so often. We know Quinn cannot throw them with any regularity.

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I think you hit the nail on the head. We are up in all these games and from a playcalling perspective we seem to be trying to take the air out of the ball for the most part. Even against Georgia we came out slinging it all over and then inexplicably just shut it down.

It's 1000% what he's doing. We get up and then Sark tries to choke them out with the run and killing the clock.

The problem is 2 of our top 4 RBs are out for the season and Sark doesn't seem to trust a 3rd our of top 4 RBs due to fumble issues.

Not sure why he doesn't run the clock with screens and easy passes instead.

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11 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Let's move on to other series like the second series of the game. We just came out and scored on ASU in two plays. We are in 11 personnel. This is something I complain about regularly. Y'all are going to get mad here so be ready.

 

1st and 10 and we run the usual slow developing play action fake. These kinds of plays require the defense to live in fear of teams running downhill on you. We try to pull Conner to pick up the DE and he just can't get there. The only way this works is if the DE fears run and pauses to check for it. If the DE just makes a beeline for the QB there is no way Conner can get to him. This play is just doomed from a schematic point with ASU being flat out quicker than us.

 

 

 

What was this play designed to do?  TE and slot are blocking, receiver near side runs to defender and sets up to block, the only route being run is up top clearing out the corner and safety, so I guess it’s PA to Wisner and hope he squirts through traffic in the middle and gets open, so basically one option?

that was….something.

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5 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

What was this play designed to do?  TE and slot are blocking, receiver near side runs to defender and sets up to block, the only route being run is up top clearing out the corner and safety, so I guess it’s PA to Wisner and hope he squirts through traffic in the middle and gets open, so basically one option?

that was….something.

It's hard to make out right? I honestly have watched it umpteen times and still cannot make out where the ball was supposed to go.

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14 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It's hard to make out right? I honestly have watched it umpteen times and still cannot make out where the ball was supposed to go.

I *think* it's an RPO where QE checks to see tight coverage on the WR and then is reading the deep safety. When he doesn't drop to the field corner, QE is pulling it to throw to the route up top, 1 on 1. 

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9 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Seems like everyone thought it was a run except Quinn and Tre.

 

This is funny stuff.  I’ve learned over the years no one can see all the stuff that goes down on any play.  Sometimes even on slo mo and rewind you can’t tell.  Or at least it takes more than one view.

Based on every one else’s action, it’s a run.  The only other option is RPO with a 1 man go route.  Goosby and Helm are saying run.  The RPO doesn’t make sense for several reasons.

So, yes, the most logical conclusion is the error was on QB or RB.

Maybe Dorbah makes the tackle.  If not, you have a successful run play.  So did Sark call a bad play or not?

I think Dorbah did a great job as he may have forced the action and made the play.

 

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7 hours ago, Jon Bovi said:

Going back to the very first post in this thread, it's very easy to criticize the play call with the hindsight that they were going to blitz both inside linebackers.   However, an experienced QB should have read the blitz and checked into a different play, or he should have gotten rid of the ball and not taken a sack if the blitz was sufficiently disguised before the snap.  Frankly, it was pretty ballsy of them to blitz both LBs on a first down play.  Were we showing tendencies? 

Quinn has the athletic skills, but he has not developed his game management skills given his experience.  Is that due to coaching or are his game management skills inherently subpar? 

Fans always want to criticize play calling because it's easy to do.  However, there are far more moving parts that fans don't see.  Any criticism of Sark should relate to QB development, or perhaps sacrificing the good of the team for a player's NFL chances (like Calapari does with getting players to the NBA).

Interesting post considering we know for a fact that Ewers made three perfect audibles/adjustments that turned into long touchdowns in our two playoff games. 

Edited by Huckleberry
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20 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

For as often as he plays, Juan Davis gives us almost nothing as a receiver and mainly serves as just a warm body as a blocker. PFF has him as one of the worst run-blocking TE’s in the country as of a few weeks ago and I’m assuming that hasn’t changed the last two games.

Still better than Cade Brewer.

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34 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

We should ditch 12 personnel with the current lineup. We gain zero advantages in passing or running game from that personnel package. Neither TE is a great blocker and only one of them is a receiving threat.

Again, the two Blue TDs versus Clemson and Helm OT TD versus ASU looked to be the exact formation with one being flipped to the left.  Davis on the field.

UGa game 1 we sucked but first drive 2nd half.  Guess what we opened in?

It’s a bit hard to parse out play reps, but last year Helm was on the field 50% of the time or so.  More than Davis this year.

Believe we lead the nation in explosive plays.  For the 8 game SEC conference schedule, we had the highest YPC in the conference.  Without QB contribution.  There might be some indicators within that as to how others operate offensively.

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On 1/3/2025 at 9:26 PM, ztejas said:

Play-calling hindsight has to be one of the dumbest things in this sport.

The University of Texas is not paying Steve Sarkisian millions of dollars every season to not know what the fuck he's doing. 

There are dozens of jobs out there paying guys hundreds of thousands of dollars to design offenses and call plays for them. If y'all are such geniuses then go get one of those jobs. 

Such a dumb take. Football coaching is very much a nepotistic/who you know business. You could be an offensive X’s and O’s savant and it means fuck all if you don’t know the right people. It’s not Walmart where you just apply for a job….. 

 

I mean look at someone like Arthur Smith, what exactly the fuck did that guy accomplish to be rewarded with an NFL job? 

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22 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Let's move on to other series like the second series of the game. We just came out and scored on ASU in two plays. We are in 11 personnel. This is something I complain about regularly. Y'all are going to get mad here so be ready.

 

1st and 10 and we run the usual slow developing play action fake. These kinds of plays require the defense to live in fear of teams running downhill on you. We try to pull Conner to pick up the DE and he just can't get there. The only way this works is if the DE fears run and pauses to check for it. If the DE just makes a beeline for the QB there is no way Conner can get to him. This play is just doomed from a schematic point with ASU being flat out quicker than us.

 

 

 

I thought this was RPO that should have been handed off watching it live. You can see the OL run blocking. Looking at it again it looks like straight run. Not sure why Quinn didn’t hand it off. This look like just player error 

Edited by Codaxx
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22 hours ago, Thatguy said:

So now it's second down and we are already behind the sticks. We are in 11 personnel and Sark decides to call a run play despite ASU having 7 in the box, which is one more than you can block. We block it up really well considering. Everyone has a hat. Majors makes it the second level. We loop Helm up the A-gap as a lead. However, ASU just has too many to block. This pops for big yardage if they were playing us straight up but they are loading the box. Should've checked out of this to a pass play.

 

 

 

 

Looks like RPO with a screen up top. Quinn just chose to hand it off 

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42 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I thought this was RPO that should have been handed off watching it live. You can see the OL run blocking. Looking at it again it looks like straight run. Not sure why Quinn didn’t hand it off. This look like just player error 

There is 8 in the box vs 6 blockers and his key bit on the run fake. Everything about that play says pull and throw except that we tried to block the DE with Conner.

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17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

There is 8 in the box vs 6 blockers and his key bit on the run fake. Everything about that play says pull and throw except that we tried to block the DE with Conner.

You need to watch this play. Everyone is blocking. Moore is way down field blocking. Whoever is on the left sideline at WR is blocking. Perhaps the WR is running go on the right, but based on everything else more likely he is just running him off. Dorbah ignores the Rb and goes straight at Quinn. The run actually has a chance. There is no pull to throw option here. It’s hand off or pull to run. 

Edited by Codaxx
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On 1/4/2025 at 8:51 AM, immamac said:

Rename to MP4 its a browser issue and I wish Apple weren't such assholes. It'll work in an mp4 container just fine though. 

testing

 

 

Well I guess it works but it looks choppy as shit. I should just accept my advanced age at this point.

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18 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

testing

 

 

Well I guess it works but it looks choppy as shit. I should just accept my advanced age at this point.

Looks good to me. Why does Quinn panic in the pocket like that when it’s clean? His legs get super wide when he starts panicking.

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That's not panicking, his first two guys were covered and the rush opened up a lane to his left. He saw Wingo too late, though, he definitely has the ability to roll that throw over the backer and to Wingo, we've seen him make it dozens of times. Not sure what you're talking about with his legs widening, his right foot goes to the side to push off toward his left to start running.

Edited by Huckleberry
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1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

That's not panicking, his first two guys were covered and the rush opened up a lane to his left. He saw Wingo too late, though, he definitely has the ability to roll that throw over the backer and to Wingo, we've seen him make it dozens of times. Not sure what you're talking about with his legs widening, his right foot goes to the side to push off toward his left to start running.

A throw to Wingo should've been one of his first reads with nobody blitzing. Comeback route open on the sideline. Or he's got Wisner in the flat as his safety valve.

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1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Lol. This dude is always looking for a negative.

Image.thumb.jpeg.ad83fa392f124e5d416f03747d26fffd.jpeg
 

The pocket was clean but Quinn’s legs are wide open ready to run. It’s like Quinn decided to run the moment he saw Helm get to the top of the route and was covered by 2 guys. There was even an extra blocker on the right. The throw to Wingo or even dump off to Wisner would have been a better move. 

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1 hour ago, MrBig said:

Image.thumb.jpeg.ad83fa392f124e5d416f03747d26fffd.jpeg
 

The pocket was clean but Quinn’s legs are wide open ready to run. It’s like Quinn decided to run the moment he saw Helm get to the top of the route and was covered by 2 guys. There was even an extra blocker on the right. The throw to Wingo or even dump off to Wisner would have been a better move. 

@Huckleberry already addressed it. You guys are always bitching about Ewers not taking off and then when he tries you are here saying how he shouldn't have. He wasn't panicking. 

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