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CFP Buckeye Makeover


sushihorn

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With the Michigan loss, Day had a lot of motivation and 3 weeks to make changes. It was enough to install a couple of tendency breaking running plays, 2 variations of counter. I saw GT counter and G-TE counter. There really was no front side running variants off of those looks, I didn’t see power or anything like that. They did boot and roll the QB off the counter look: which he should be used to from KSU. Inside zone was still used but only occasionally.

The bottom line for me is that 3 weeks was enough to install a few plays that caught Tennessee by surprise but not enough to change more than that. Howard already knew how to run that offense but the OL needed to change style and rep it. The change won the first round game for them. It was a less important factor in the second round. Texas has the tape and Day doesn’t have 3 weeks to install anything radical. Gap blocking is better suited to OSU OL personnel but I expect only a modest impact to their production on the ground against Texas. 

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3 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

With the Michigan loss, Day had a lot of motivation and 3 weeks to make changes. It was enough to install a couple of tendency breaking running plays, 2 variations of counter. I saw GT counter and G-TE counter. There really was no front side running variants off of those looks, I didn’t see power or anything like that. They did boot and roll the QB off the counter look: which he should be used to from KSU. Inside zone was still used but only occasionally.

The bottom line for me is that 3 weeks was enough to install a few plays that caught Tennessee by surprise but not enough to change more than that. Howard already knew how to run that offense but the OL needed to change style and rep it. The change won the first round game for them. It was a less important factor in the second round. Texas has the tape and Day doesn’t have 3 weeks to install anything radical. Gap blocking is better suited to OSU OL personnel but I expect only a modest impact to their production on the ground against Texas. 

PFF guys had a good video on this. Ohio State went from essentially not running counter to running counter on 50%+ of run plays in the playoffs. They posited that it was the influence of staff that spend time with Mike Norvell and that they essentially installed Norvell's offense after the Michigan loss. Tennessee was completely unprepared. Oregon may have believed it was opponent specific and didnt expect it to carry over. 

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30 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

PFF guys had a good video on this. Ohio State went from essentially not running counter to running counter on 50%+ of run plays in the playoffs. They posited that it was the influence of staff that spend time with Mike Norvell and that they essentially installed Norvell's offense after the Michigan loss. Tennessee was completely unprepared. Oregon may have believed it was opponent specific and didnt expect it to carry over. 

I think their overall point is correct. I saw a lot of Norvell in the PA passing game. But the time factor meant OSU could install only a small part of that offense. Hold the edge or penetrate playside against counter and it’s not very effective. I like our Edges and overall DL depth against counter. Texas has more tape and better personnel to stop it than UO or Tennessee. 

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2 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

I think their overall point is correct. I saw a lot of Norvell in the PA passing game. But the time factor meant OSU could install only a small part of that offense. Hold the edge or penetrate playside against counter and it’s not very effective. I like our Edges and overall DL depth against counter. Texas has more tape and better personnel to stop it than UO or Tennessee. 

Agreed. We also will not be running man against them all game long. Howard is going to have to read a defense and not just find his matchups. 

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GT Counter to the TE side from 12 personnel:

 

UO defends with a light box. 3 down: 3 tech, 1 tech and 5 tech playside. There is a backside edge and 2 LBs. The TE is uncovered and the playside edge is defended by what looks like a nickel or corner overhang outside the box. 

The playside OT and OG just block down on the DL. Back side LB gets pulled away by H-back motion to the (3 WR) back side of the play. DL we’re looking inside first and easily walked off. Numbers and leverage were decisive. 

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On 1/5/2025 at 11:59 AM, sushihorn said:

I’ve heard a lot of commentary about OSU looking like a completely different team in the playoffs. That is partially true. The 4th straight loss to Michigan seems to have triggered a radical change to manufacture a ground game. Ryan Day surprised me by installing a very different running attack and PA passing off of that. Day has been a zone scheme coach in Columbus.

They came out against Tennessee with gap scheme blocking. This was so different that the Vols looked completely confused and there was no tape to prepare for such a radical scheme change. The result: 156 yards, 4.7 YPC and 4 TDs. That was a huge upgrade from what they did vs UM: 77, 3.0 YPC, 0 TDs. Of course that made the whole offense more effective, with the other UT defense actually having to honor play action fakes.  Pearl Harbor effect in the first round.

The surprise effect diminished significantly in the second round. OSU ran the ball very well here but they already had done so in the first meeting. In the playoffs: 181 yards, 5.8 YPC, 2 TDs. In their regular season meeting: 141, 4.3 yards, 2 TDs. The playoff performance was better but not a step function improvement.  Frankly OSU should have won the first game but -2 in TO margin cost them the game. OSU run defense, WR development and eliminating TOs were more important factors in the CFP game than changes to their own run blocking scheme.

Apparently you missed the Buckeyes’ performance against Georgia in the Peach Bowl two years ago. If looking like a different team than the one who played Michigan comes as a surprise to you then you haven’t been paying attention. This is nothing new nor unexpected. What’s baffling is that Day still hadn’t learned his lesson and still coached not to lose the Michigan game instead of coaching to win. That’s the aberration. Not how he’s coaching now.

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13 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Apparently you missed the Buckeyes’ performance against Georgia in the Peach Bowl two years ago. If looking like a different team than the one who played Michigan comes as a surprise to you then you haven’t been paying attention. This is nothing new nor unexpected. What’s baffling is that Day still hadn’t learned his lesson and still coached not to lose the Michigan game instead of coaching to win. That’s the aberration. Not how he’s coaching now.

That doesn't remind me of any coaches in Texas' past at all.

:::triggered:::

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18 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Apparently you missed the Buckeyes’ performance against Georgia in the Peach Bowl two years ago. If looking like a different team than the one who played Michigan comes as a surprise to you then you haven’t been paying attention. This is nothing new nor unexpected. What’s baffling is that Day still hadn’t learned his lesson and still coached not to lose the Michigan game instead of coaching to win. That’s the aberration. Not how he’s coaching now.

Changing core concepts of your offense at the end of the year is normal for y’all? 

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Posted (edited)

That duo that uncovered the Norvell angle was a good listen but they went too far, claiming the whole offense was installed (noting one pass play looked like a Norvell play), and that Texas should be worried about the “layers” tOSU hasn’t shown yet. You aren’t installing whole new offense in 3 weeks and if you were so dumb a guy like Chip Kelly isn’t ditching his offense to do it.  They added a handful of plays and when they worked they just kept going at it. 

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It took OSU 3 weeks to install and rep one play (2 variations) and accompanying play action. And the PA doesn’t involve the OL in much different action. With 9 days this time, I don’t expect to see much new. Maybe one route combination they haven’t shown before. Maybe one different pressure look. The sort of thing you can install with one or two players, not a whole unit that has to coordinate as tightly as the OL. 

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On 1/5/2025 at 1:01 PM, Dahobbs said:

Agreed. We also will not be running man against them all game long. Howard is going to have to read a defense and not just find his matchups. 

How will we ever pass against your zone defense.   Maybe we will use flood routes, Seams, tight end and running backs… you know, our strength.  

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1 hour ago, BestNCountry said:

How will we ever pass against your zone defense.   Maybe we will use flood routes, Seams, tight end and running backs… you know, our strength.  

Oh, I see you've stopped pretending and have gone to being an asshole. Good. I don't want to think there could be a decent OSU fan. 

I didn't say you couldn't pass against zone. I said we weren't going to make it easy on you like Tennessee did by running simple man coverage all day. And we aren't going to leave the first read open like Oregon did. Howard is going to have to read a defense. And he is going to have to do it under pressure. Y'all have answers, but we are going to make you execute them. 

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8 hours ago, sushihorn said:

It took OSU 3 weeks to install and rep one play (2 variations) and accompanying play action. And the PA doesn’t involve the OL in much different action. With 9 days this time, I don’t expect to see much new. Maybe one route combination they haven’t shown before. Maybe one different pressure look. The sort of thing you can install with one or two players, not a whole unit that has to coordinate as tightly as the OL. 

And every team is doing that at this juncture in the season. 

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Literally everyone has an answer to a zone defense, but you gotta diagnose it quick enough for the timing to be right and to beat the pass rush. 
 

Leavitt bought time with his legs over and over, If we get Howard moving like that, I like our chances

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3 hours ago, BestNCountry said:

How will we ever pass against your zone defense.   Maybe we will use flood routes, Seams, tight end and running backs… you know, our strength.  

The great Yogi Berra once said: The difference between theory and practice is in theory there is no difference; in practice there is. 

Howard’s worst performances have come against teams using mostly zone coverage. PSU was the most reliant on man at around 38%. The rest was zone. Michigan and Nebraska mostly used split field zone coverages.

All of those teams confused Howard enough to force him to hold the ball and make bad throws. He got picked in all 3 games, twice vs UM. Those zone beaters existed in theory, not so much in practice against better defenses using zone. 

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25 minutes ago, Tylerocks said:

I hope we can install a run game before tomorrow, that would be nice.

Maybe dial up some 3rd Quarter offense for a change....you know, really throw them off.

That will be just what they are expecting.  A shitty run game and low effort 3rd quarter will really throw them off.

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4 hours ago, BestNCountry said:

How will we ever pass against your zone defense.   Maybe we will use flood routes, Seams, tight end and running backs… you know, our strength.  

Why are you crying? Every team tries to move the ball every week against us and everyone else. Maybe you'll be able to. Maybe you won't.

One thing is certain: the team that Michigan destroyed again is the same team that will be playing in Arlington tomorrow night.

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50 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

The great Yogi Berra once said: The difference between theory and practice is in theory there is no difference; in practice there is. 

Yogi also pointed out that the game is 90% mental and the other half is physical.

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16 minutes ago, Lurch said:


No one goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.

Talking head #1: Yogi, it says here you hold the all-time baseball record with 25 RBI in one day.

Talking head #2: Yes, but it was two games.

Yogi: You're both wrong, it was a double-header.

 

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14:40 mark, Elven Warriors describing a pinching D Line clogging up the A and B gaps. That keeps the gap assignments clear and spills runs outside. The downside is the DL isn’t going to get much push upfield so it’s harder to covert run defense into a pass rush with momentum being lateral and towards a clogged middle of the line.

OSU is playing a lot of 3 high safety looks with Downs playing as an ersatz MLB aligning 8 yards off and playing like a robber or Tampa 2 middle in coverage. The pinching DL keep blockers from getting upfield to Downs, freeing him from having run gap responsibility. He  can attack like a safety in run support instead of having LB run assignments. 

In the 3 high look, both actual LBs typically align outside the OT with C gap run responsibility. This keeps reads simple and puts them closer for inside support on WR screens. They can play fast with the front 6 having clear responsibilities. 

Of course, the crashing DEs create a void behind them. WR tunnel screens and RB swing passes either lead blocking are obvious ways to attack those voids covered by a single LB. Those are both staples for Sark and Ewers hits those throws precisely and in stride. Or he can force them out of those looks by going 4 wide or splitting Helm out in 11 personnel. 

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1 hour ago, sushihorn said:


14:40 mark, Elven Warriors describing a pinching D Line clogging up the A and B gaps. That keeps the gap assignments clear and spills runs outside. The downside is the DL isn’t going to get much push upfield so it’s harder to covert run defense into a pass rush with momentum being lateral and towards a clogged middle of the line.

OSU is playing a lot of 3 high safety looks with Downs playing as an ersatz MLB aligning 8 yards off and playing like a robber or Tampa 2 middle in coverage. The pinching DL keep blockers from getting upfield to Downs, freeing him from having run gap responsibility. He  can attack like a safety in run support instead of having LB run assignments. 

In the 3 high look, both actual LBs typically align outside the OT with C gap run responsibility. This keeps reads simple and puts them closer for inside support on WR screens. They can play fast with the front 6 having clear responsibilities. 

Of course, the crashing DEs create a void behind them. WR tunnel screens and RB swing passes either lead blocking are obvious ways to attack those voids covered by a single LB. Those are both staples for Sark and Ewers hits those throws precisely and in stride. Or he can force them out of those looks by going 4 wide or splitting Helm out in 11 personnel. 

Ewers cant turn down open receivers. He needs to fire when he sees it. 

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