Jump to content

America's Foreign Policy & Other Shit Going On Around the World thread


bolverk

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

I've said what I know about it. The cost in lives was more about what was to come if hostilities kept escalating over it. Was it overblown by military brass or Carter? Could be so. I have no idea what extent the tensions would have escalated, how the Soviet Union may or may not have been able to take advantage of the situation, or many of the other factors at play in the mid 1970s. 

What I do know is jumping into that hornet's nest today for no good reason would be the epitome of trump stupidity and an additional giant waste of resources. I have a nephew who is about to complete year 1 in the army, and although I spoke my objections based on this very scenario of a warmongering trump getting back in office, his veteran step dad convinced him otherwise. I really hope he makes it 4 years, but having to deal with him getting killed invading Panama would make family events quite weird. And I'd keep the "I told you idiots so" to myself although we'd all know it. 

Cool. I will let it go then. But I was there in a bad time in US-Latin American relations and you could walk around Panama City and be very safe. Like any city, be aware of the BS coming out of the national universities or the occasional strikes.\

Oh, and the Universities and Strikes applied to every city I lived in down there.

Edited by InkaUtexas
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Cool. I will follow. Let's start. Haiti. And since we can go political now, Rubio. He gives a bit about it, and knows the subject. It does impact the US though we rarely hear about it.

My take is if there is 1 place where we get pulled in it is Haiti in the Western Hemisphere within 10 months. The Kenyans went in as Proxies, and are doing fuck all as expected. The Salvadorans just voted to send in army units. Let me be the first. Those fuckers can fight and give zero fucks.

I think we see a UN mission going in with US command, control and logistics support. Few troops unless it is a QRF.

Do you really think that Trump would willingly send troops to Haiti? I doubt he gives a shit about those folks unless we start seeing a bunch more refugees, but I could very well be wrong. It seems his MO would be the deportation angle.

But, yeah, I'm cool with just having a general foreign policy, "WTF is wrong with you, World?" thread like the Global Spring one but (now that it's CR) freer discussion. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • bolverk changed the title to America's Foreign Policy & Other Shit Going On Around the World thread
4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Do you really think that Trump would willingly send troops to Haiti? I doubt he gives a shit about those folks unless we start seeing a bunch more refugees, but I could very well be wrong. It seems his MO would be the deportation angle.

But, yeah, I'm cool with just having a general foreign policy, "WTF is wrong with you, World?" thread like the Global Spring one but (now that it's CR) freer discussion. 

Yes, it is an easy win and all the others have failed. There has not been 1 successful push in Haiti since Aristide. He likes wins. Plus it is very easy for beltway bandits and baptists to go and play there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Do you really think that Trump would willingly send troops to Haiti? I doubt he gives a shit about those folks unless we start seeing a bunch more refugees, but I could very well be wrong. It seems his MO would be the deportation angle.

But, yeah, I'm cool with just having a general foreign policy, "WTF is wrong with you, World?" thread like the Global Spring one but (now that it's CR) freer discussion. 

Wanna add With extra Politics to the title? :)

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Helping Puerto Rico in like, any way at all, would have also been a win. He likes wins, but helping people in the brown->black skin spectrum to get them has generally been a bridge too far.

So you saw that 1 news event right? What else did you see? Did you go down and see the corruption? The airfields full of water that was delivered to the island, then just stopped?

Lets talk a bit about PR and the Hurricane's aftermath. I was just there in September. It is still fucked up. Big time. And I was slotted to go in right after the Hurricane. Who canceled where we were going to base out of? The Mayor of San Juan. Nope, FEMA could not use the Convention Center, the best location in the city. Nope, the Government of San Juan would provide all the lodging. And yep, hotels. Fucked up ones, owned by a lot of powerful donors.

A shit ton went wrong in PR. And still is. 4 years into Biden's administration and the rebuilding of the power grid still is in discussion. I think it was finally awarded last year.

I think you know my politics, but I am a bit tired of this BS of everything we do is wrong and evil.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
  • Drool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So you saw that 1 news event right? What else did you see? Did you go down and see the corruption? The airfields full of water that was delivered to the island, then just stopped?

Lets talk a bit about PR and the Hurricane's aftermath. I was just there in September. It is still fucked up. Big time. And I was slotted to go in right after the Hurricane. Who canceled where we were going to base out of? The Mayor of San Juan. Nope, FEMA could not use the Convention Center, the best location in the city. Nope, the Government of San Juan would provide all the lodging. And yep, hotels. Fucked up ones, owned by a lot of powerful donors.

A shit ton went wrong in PR. And still is. 4 years into Biden's administration and the rebuilding of the power grid still is in discussion. I think it was finally awarded last year.

I think you know my politics, but I am a bit tired of this BS of everything we do is wrong and evil.

Oh yeah, a good friend of mine's mother is a police captain (?? I think, I could be remembering that wrong) down there and she relays her complaints about how bad the corruption is allllllllll the time. I don't think anyone's saying everything we do is wrong and evil, just that Trump is a dickhead. I don't really think it's out of pocket to say he doesn't give a flying fuck about Puerto Ricans (I don't think Biden does either).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Oh yeah, a good friend of mine's mother is a police captain (?? I think, I could be remembering that wrong) down there and she relays her complaints about how bad the corruption is allllllllll the time. I don't think anyone's saying everything we do is wrong and evil, just that Trump is a dickhead. I don't really think it's out of pocket to say he doesn't give a flying fuck about Puerto Ricans (I don't think Biden does either).

Then take it to the trump thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, bolverk said:

Do you really think that Trump would willingly send troops to Haiti? I doubt he gives a shit about those folks unless we start seeing a bunch more refugees, but I could very well be wrong.

No, you’re right. Trump thinks it’s a “shithole.” He’s not sending troops to Haiti because he doesn’t give a fuck. There’s nothing MAGA about helping Haiti. Nothing to “win” there for him. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

image.thumb.png.346017d697fcae379218d01cbe224380.png
 

The HFAC majority tweeted this out then deleted it. It’s important not to sanewash this stuff, but equally important not to dismiss it as something he won’t try.  And there are other things at play here.  He wants to leave NATO but that requires Congress to approve. Inciting a flagrant territorial dispute with a member that would draw anger and condemnation from the entire Alliance would be one way to whip the idiot caucus in Congress into doing that. 

  • Hook 'Em 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

He wants to leave NATO but that requires Congress to approve. Inciting a flagrant territorial dispute with a member that would draw anger and condemnation from the entire Alliance would be one way to whip the idiot caucus in Congress into doing that. 

That's a very good point.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I had hopes for this thread. Yeah, there was risk it would go CR. But now that it is there it is just another Trump thread.

Oh well.

Agreed. Just merge it with the Trump thread since apparently talks from our incoming president about invading sovereign nations isn’t news.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s in the cloakroom now! I didn’t make that call. 

yeah, we all know, he controls all events that impact the US. There are no events except for what comes out of his mouth, and of course every thread will be about him. Fuck it, fire the Department of State. Appoint 1 member of the Army band as Pro-Consul to every country and be done with it.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yes, I remember reading a USN document about the opening up of the Artic and how the US could get ready. This included beefing up NORAD's capabilities.

A rational leader would look to make an agreement allowing for the development of a large US military base, which sounds to be the ideal outcome if “defense” is the goal. A really good way to fuck that negotiation before it begins is to threaten to take it by force. You don’t let someone build a massive presence inside your country when they’ve already made those threats.
 

So of course he does the exact opposite. 

  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been a while since I read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy but wasn't a major part of that book the Russians invading Greenland so they could have a base of operations to refuel and launches attacks on the US? It could've been Iceland I'm thinking of. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, mdmost said:

It's been a while since I read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy but wasn't a major part of that book the Russians invading Greenland so they could have a base of operations to refuel and launches attacks on the US? It could've been Iceland I'm thinking of. 

Iceland.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Not only misinformation, but whole scale information siloing, is a primary reason turnip won this election. 
 

Just saying.

Yep. It's pretty remarkable that discussing a future president's threats to invade allies is taken as "You fools can't grasp the English language! That's not news; it's just politics. Get that out of here!" And, poof, talking about it is siloed to a subforum where folks who don't want to think about such a radical departure from normal international relations don't have to see it.

Foreign policy is a government activity and is, therefore, politics -- never mind the fact that news about international relations is discussed all the damn time elsewhere.

Perhaps, it's a good example of what we're seeing elsewhere: anticipatory obedience. Bezos, Zuck...I guess all the tech execs got the same memo.

 

Back on topic:

How has Panama responded?
In a statement of rebuke to Mr. Trump last month, President José Raúl Mulino of Panama wrote “every square meter of the Panama Canal and its adjacent area belong to PANAMA.”

Mr. Mulino also said U.S. vessels are not being overcharged. Rates being charged to ships and naval vessels, he insisted, are “not on a whim.”

Panamanian officials said all countries are subject to the same fees, though they would differ based on ship size. They are established in public meetings by the Panama Canal Authority, and take into account market conditions, international competition, operating and maintenance costs, Mr. Mulino said.

Rates have gone up recently, however. That’s because starting in 2023, Panama experienced severe drought, driven by a combination of El Niño and climate change, which Mr. Trump has called a hoax. With water levels at Gatun Lake, the principal hydrological reserve for the canal, at historically low levels, authorities reduced shipping through the canal to conserve the lake’s fresh water.

A Trump spokeswoman said that because the United States is the biggest user of the canal, the increase in fees hits its ships the most.

What is China’s role in the Panama Canal?
Chinese soldiers are not, as Mr. Trump has claimed, “operating” the Panama Canal.

“There are no Chinese soldiers in the canal, for the love of God,” Mr. Mulino said in a speech Thursday. “The world is free to visit the canal.”

A Hong Kong-based firm, CK Hutchison Holdings, does manage two ports at the canal’s entrances. And some experts have said that does raise valid competitive and security concerns for the United States.

Ryan C. Berg, the director of the Americas program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, noted that CK Hutchison would likely have data on all ships coming through the Panama Canal. China has been using its shipping and maritime operations to gather foreign intelligence and conduct espionage.

“China exercises, or could exercise, a certain element of control even absent some military conflagration,” Mr. Berg said. “I think there is reason to be worried.”

Mao Ning, a spokeswoman for the Chinese foreign ministry, said Tuesday that China “will as always respect Panama’s sovereignty” over the Panama Canal.

China is the second-largest user of the Panama Canal after the United States. In 2017, Panama cut diplomatic ties with Taiwan and recognized the island as part of China, a major win for Beijing.

Can the United States reassert control?
Not easily.

Mr. Mulino has made clear the Panama Canal is not for sale. He noted that the treaties established permanent neutrality of the canal and “guaranteeing its open and safe operation for all nations.” And the Senate ratified the Panama Canal treaties in 1978.

Mick Mulvaney, Mr. Trump’s former chief of staff, suggested that the provocations were merely part of a negotiating tactic to get rates down.

“You know, I don’t envision American troops going in to retake the canal, but you got to think that someone is out there scratching their head going, ‘Is Donald Trump crazy enough to do something like that?’” Mr. Mulvaney said Tuesday on “The Hill” on NewsNation.

Mr. Berg said the neutrality agreement made it unlikely that Panama would even be able to grant special rates to the United States. And, he noted, Mr. Mulino is “incredibly pro-American” and likely eager to help the incoming Trump administration deal with issues like illegal immigration.

“President Mulino is going to be a great ally with the United States,” Mr. Berg said. “We should not want this to devolve into some kind of political fight because we’re going to need President Mulino on a number of other issues.”

But there is, as Mr. Trump has threatened, a military option. Mr. Trump could as president order an invasion of Panama. Under the terms of its constitution, Panama has no army. But experts dismissed Mr. Trump’s threat on Tuesday as empty intimidation.

“If the U.S. wanted to flout international law and act like Vladimir Putin, the U.S. could invade Panama and recover the canal,” said Benjamin Gaden, director of the Wilson Center’s Latin America Program in Washington. “No one would see it as a legitimate act, and it would bring not only grievous damage to their image, but instability to the canal.”

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW, over in Europe, we've got another far-right party founded by former Nazis with ties to Putin about to take control in Austria. I'm becoming increasingly impressed with the outcome of the British and French elections earlier this year.

Quote

 

A Far-Right Government in Austria Would Be a Jolt, but Not Unexpected
The Freedom Party and its leader, Herbert Kickl, have steadily built support by demonizing immigrants, while entering Austria’s political mainstream.

The political party on the verge of leading Austria would take an already conservative country into a growing group of nations shifting to the far-right of European politics. It has flirted with Nazi slogans, cozied up to Russia and drawn warnings from Holocaust survivors’ groups. It campaigned on promises to deport immigrants and ban political forms of Islam.

The Freedom Party, known as the FPÖ, and its firebrand leader, Herbert Kickl, were given the chance to form a governing coalition this week, after efforts to bar them from power collapsed. If they succeed in forming a government, it would be a shock to the Austrian political system and a further jolt to Western Europe, where similarly far-right parties are surging in France, Germany and elsewhere.

But it would not be a surprise.

The Freedom Party’s rise follows years of growing acceptance of the far right in Austrian politics. Its growth has been helped by scandals and an ideological shift in the more mainstream conservative party that has led Austria’s governments for 15 of the last 25 years.

Unlike in neighboring Germany, where all other parties have refused to include the right-wing-populist Alternative for Germany in federal ruling coalitions, other parties in Austria have allowed the Freedom Party to share power for years as a junior partner.

The Freedom Party has broadened its appeal in recent elections with an anti-establishment message that harshly criticizes immigrants, Covid restrictions, the European Union and support for Ukraine in its defense against the Russian invasion. The party has gained support from blue-collar workers, university graduates and, critically, women. In elections for the European Parliament this summer, it was the most popular party among Austrian voters under the age of 35.

“The idea that the FPÖ is somehow politically taboo, that train has long left the station,” said Laurenz Ennser-Jedenastik, a political scientist at the University of Vienna.

The Freedom Party was founded by former members of the SS, the Nazi paramilitary force, in the 1950s. It was largely shunned in its early years, but then slowly became part of the political establishment.

The party first entered a national government with progressive Social Democrats in 1983 and has served in four ruling coalitions since, the most recent just six years ago. It’s also active on the state level and is in coalitions in the majority of Austria’s nine states.

Until the late 1980s, the Freedom Party was a small, elitist entity largely associated with certain nationalist university fraternities. A new leader, Jörg Haider, attracted more voters by adopting campaign rhetoric harshly critical of foreigners.

That focus has become the driving force of the modern party, sharpened and intensified by Mr. Kickl, who wrote speeches for Mr. Haider early in his career. Mr. Kickl steered the party into increasingly provocative slogans, including the xenophobic “Viennese blood — too many foreigners does no one any good.”

In 2017, the Freedom Party joined a governing coalition with the conservative People’s Party. Karin Kneissl, then the Freedom Party’s choice of foreign minister, was widely criticized for dancing at her 2018 wedding with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia. She has since moved to Russia.

The administration and the coalition collapsed quickly in a scandal involving a hidden camera, a fake Russian heiress and a former Freedom Party leader in 2019.

During the administration, Mr. Kickl served as the country’s interior minister, putting him in charge of immigration control, a subject that has been integral to the party’s platform.

He made headlines back then for suggesting “concentrating” refugees in centralized facilities. Although Mr. Kickl later claimed that he was not trying to provoke, many believe that his use of a Nazi-era phrase referencing concentration camps was deliberate.

It was also not isolated. Mr. Kickl’s party has since repeatedly invoked the term “Volkskanzler” — “the people’s chancellor” — that was used by Hitler.

While others in the party have wanted to soften the anti-immigrant rhetoric, Mr. Kickl has capitalized on raw, emotional appeals to native-born Austrian workers. He tapped into discontent over an influx of refugees to Austria from the Middle East and, later, Ukraine. At the height of the Covid-19 pandemic, he rallied opposition to vaccine mandates, lockdowns and masks.

In last fall’s campaign, Mr. Kickl promised to build “Fortress Austria” — by resorting to strict border control measures, the forced deportation of immigrants and a suspension of asylum rights for refugees, which would require breaking from a European Union agreement on migration. He called for a reversal of measures meant to fight climate change and a renewed focus on fossil fuels.

He has also pushed for political changes that some analysts say would push Austria toward a more authoritarian model of government, akin to Viktor Orban in Hungary. Those changes include new referendum procedures that would allow a relatively small slice of the electorate to force a national vote to overturn the government or dismiss individual ministers.

Mr. Kickl’s platform appealed to many voters, with the party winning the most seats in the September election for the national assembly. “There’s more demand for a certain toughness from politics,” said Christoph Hofinger, an Austrian election researcher.

For some, it caused alarm. After the election, Christoph Heubner, the executive vice president for the International Auschwitz Committee, said that for Holocaust survivors, the victory had added “a new alarming chapter to their fears and concerns.”

The Freedom Party has benefited, in part, from the problems of the People’s Party. The group won the chancellorship handily in 2017, after turning toward the right on many issues. But the People’s Party quickly fell into a series of scandals, including one related to rigged opinion polls published in the press. It also faced voter discontent over inflation and Covid restrictions, along with its most recent coalition partner, the Green Party.

After the election loss, Karl Nehammer, the incumbent chancellor from the People’s Party, said he would not enter into a coalition with Mr. Kickl. Many saw the promise, made during the campaign, as a play to hold on to the chancellery, rather than an ideological stance, since the two parties have a long history of working together in state and federal governments.

“There was never any fundamental criticism of the FPÖ’s understanding of democracy or the rule of law” from the conservatives, Mr. Ennser-Jedenastik said.

Despite months of trying, the People’s Party was unable to form a coalition without the far right. And Mr. Nehammer announced his resignation from the chancellorship this week, paving the way for the Freedom Party to emerge on top in a coalition.

In a governing coalition, Mr. Kickl will not be able to deliver on all of his promises. The next Austrian government will need to close a budget deficit, which could hamper his economic agenda, including tax cuts and social spending increases.

But the party’s popularity will give him a strong voice as he pushes for policy changes directed at foreigners and refugees, according to analysts. Likely among them: cutting social services to those who don’t speak German or reducing financial aid for refugees.

During the fall election, 29 percent of Austrians voted for the Freedom Party. Current polling now puts voter support at more than 35 percent.

“If Kickl ever feels like the other side is not taking these talks seriously, he just gets up from the table and forces early elections,” said Mr. Hofinger.

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meh, America has generally always been seeking hegemonic power in the Americas and the possibility of changing that to more direct expansion is just a throwback to earlier periods where we were more active in our desires to own the hemisphere. The funny part though is that even when we were colonizing and expanding, we pretended to be different from the other colonial powers. Now we're just straight up saying "we're taking this" with no apologies or explanations about how we'll run out the caudillos or enlighten people that need a good enlightening.

 

The main lesson to never ever trust Yanqui has been taught and forgotten by nearly every generation in Latin America and its time for Canada and Greenland to learn it. There is always another United Fruit, always another Trump, always another traitor willing to kill their own people for that sweet sweet protection and US $$$. That's the nature of living next to a xenophobic superpower that switches directions every four years but always looks after itself first that really doesn't give a shit about you or any agreements we've had in the past.
 

  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Meh, America has generally always been seeking hegemonic power in the Americas and the possibility of changing that to more direct expansion is just a throwback to earlier periods where we were more active in our desires to own the hemisphere. The funny part though is that even when we were colonizing and expanding, we pretended to be different from the other colonial powers. Now we're just straight up saying "we're taking this" with no apologies or explanations about how we'll run out the caudillos or enlighten people that need a good enlightening.

 

The main lesson to never ever trust Yanqui has been taught and forgotten by nearly every generation in Latin America and its time for Canada and Greenland to learn it. There is always another United Fruit, always another Trump, always another traitor willing to kill their own people for that sweet sweet protection and US $$$. That's the nature of living next to a xenophobic superpower that switches directions every four years but always looks after itself first that really doesn't give a shit about you or any agreements we've had in the past.
 

But also, if we start acting basically the less brutal bully in the West that Russia is over there-- we lose some of that credibility for calling Russia out on their crap.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Meh, America has generally always been seeking hegemonic power in the Americas and the possibility of changing that to more direct expansion is just a throwback to earlier periods where we were more active in our desires to own the hemisphere. The funny part though is that even when we were colonizing and expanding, we pretended to be different from the other colonial powers. Now we're just straight up saying "we're taking this" with no apologies or explanations about how we'll run out the caudillos or enlighten people that need a good enlightening.

 

The main lesson to never ever trust Yanqui has been taught and forgotten by nearly every generation in Latin America and its time for Canada and Greenland to learn it. There is always another United Fruit, always another Trump, always another traitor willing to kill their own people for that sweet sweet protection and US $$$. That's the nature of living next to a xenophobic superpower that switches directions every four years but always looks after itself first that really doesn't give a shit about you or any agreements we've had in the past.
 

They will be replaced by Chinese or European companies. The issue is and will always be asshole leadership in Latin America. It is how the society works. Your screen name, considered the "liberator" was just another example. He was going to be a caudillo no matter what.

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

They will be replaced by Chinese or European companies. The issue is and will always be asshole leadership in Latin America. It is how the society works. Your screen name, considered the "liberator" was just another example. He was going to be a caudillo no matter what.

 

He was indeed and Latin Americans do/did generally have some agency at various degrees over time, except for when they didn't (heaven forbid, a non-communist nationalize something or reappropriate some land to natives). All of LA's problems aren't at the foot of the white imperialists, but for the love of God don't trust us.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

He was indeed and Latin Americans do/did generally have some agency at various degrees over time, except for when they didn't (heaven forbid, a non-communist nationalize something or reappropriate some land to natives). All of LA's problems aren't at the foot of the white imperialists, but for the love of God don't trust us.

Again, history of mankind is nationalization/reappropriation. The Gods Must Be Crazy taught us that.

image.jpeg.5f7c4b182bea1514a18586c12a0c2ef0.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Again, history of mankind is nationalization/reappropriation. 

 

I really have only learned two things in my life

1.) Women enjoy it when their pussies are licked

2.) Star Trek's predictions for humanity are bullshit.

 

It took a long time to get there, but I got there.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

“¿Por qué no le llamamos América Mexicana (a Estados Unidos)? Se oye bonito”
 

Sheinbaum responde a Trump por decir que México está dirigido por cárteles; “le mal informaron que gobierna Calderón”, dice

Mexico fires back! 
 

Jejejeje. Bueno, Golfo de America es actualmente mas correcto. No solo pertenece at mejico. And shit, wanna talk about some conquests? Lets talk Mexican history. I am sure the tribes of Cancun are cool with all the Atzlan shit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

He also announced that members need to spend 5% on defense, a figure we don’t meet ourselves and that is impossible and a moved goalpost.  He’s attacking the Alliance preemptively.

I think an under-appreciated aspect of DJT is that he has never had a friend. I don’t like to personalize international politics but this shapes his worldview just like being a second rate spy does for Putin.  DJT cannot comprehend relationships beyond suckers to bilk, partners in bilking, or assholes trying to stop him from bilking.  Trust, loyalty, patience, genuine support— all these things are foreign to him, he’s never been experienced them or demonstrated them and he views them as suspicious.  He cannot believe in any relationship where both parties are happy and getting something different but valuable, or giving as much as they can even if it isn’t equal. .  That carries over. 

No country spends 5%, ever.  The US is at 4 now and was at WW2.   2%, the NATO goal, is above average.   Picketty’s giant Ideology and Capitalism has tons of interesting military spending details.  Only rich countries can do it.

 

tl/dr. Trump’s comment is moronic 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, royiv said:

Agreed. Just merge it with the Trump thread since apparently talks from our incoming president about invading sovereign nations isn’t news.

Start a thread in DT about the shit he actually does starting in 12 days when he actually becomes President. Don’t discuss anything that he merely floats as an idea or a proposal or a concept of a plan. He’s not going to invade Canada or Mexico or Greenland, Panama, or Haiti. Focus on the shit he actually does, not on the outrageous bullshit he says in order to distract us from the serious, harmful shit he actually does. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trump talking about annexation of other countries diplomatically strengthens Russia's ambitions of annexing Ukraine, China's ambitions of annexing Taiwan and Israel's ambitions of slowly annexing/colonizing territories in Palestinian-controlled areas. 

Realignment talk not going away.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Rage+1 3
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, wood said:

Trump talking about annexation of other countries diplomatically strengthens Russia's ambitions of annexing Ukraine, China's ambitions of annexing Taiwan and Israel's ambitions of slowly annexing/colonizing territories in Palestinian-controlled areas. 

Realignment talk not going away.

Yep, his speech alone legitimizes imperial expansionism. The notion of territorial integrity/inviolability of borders has been baked into international law and the UN charter since WW2. That's all done now. We're going back to Age of Empires.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, wood said:

Trump talking about annexation of other countries diplomatically strengthens Russia's ambitions of annexing Ukraine, China's ambitions of annexing Taiwan and Israel's ambitions of slowly annexing/colonizing territories in Palestinian-controlled areas. 

Realignment talk not going away.

His outspoken admiration of dictators like Putin, Xi, and Kim, while he was President, along with his stated campaign policy 8 years ago of not supporting democracy and human rights around the world had the same effect. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

He also announced that members need to spend 5% on defense, a figure we don’t meet ourselves and that is impossible and a moved goalpost.  He’s attacking the Alliance preemptively.

I think an under-appreciated aspect of DJT is that he has never had a friend. I don’t like to personalize international politics but this shapes his worldview just like being a second rate spy does for Putin.  DJT cannot comprehend relationships beyond suckers to bilk, partners in bilking, or assholes trying to stop him from bilking.  Trust, loyalty, patience, genuine support— all these things are foreign to him, he’s never been experienced them or demonstrated them and he views them as suspicious.  He cannot believe in any relationship where both parties are happy and getting something different but valuable, or giving as much as they can even if it isn’t equal. That carries over. 

And interestingly enough, that is exactly the Russian worldview.  So he and Putin are extraordinarily simpatico on those points.

  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Today I learned that a) Greenland is 80% covered with ice and 3x larger than Texas and b) while many Greenlander elites speak Danish, the official and most widely-spoken language is Greenlandic, which is closely related to Inuit languages.

image.jpeg.a4e68f27e03648490a1c5e519982a7b8.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nbmishoid said:

No country spends 5%, ever.  The US is at 4 now and was at WW2.   2%, the NATO goal, is above average.   Picketty’s giant Ideology and Capitalism has tons of interesting military spending details.  Only rich countries can do it.

 

tl/dr. Trump’s comment is moronic 

Russia is up over 6 percent and was at 5 before the invasion (nominally), and I believe Israel was over 5 even before October 7.  A few others, too (not including Ukraine).  But the point of collective defense is to not become garrison states, so you are correct that the statement is moronic. 

The broader issue is that even before taking office we are artificially creating fault lines and grievances within NATO and between members, and we should absolutely suspect that this is to set the groundwork to get the GOP to attack membership in the Alliance. 

  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...