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America's Foreign Policy & Other Shit Going On Around the World thread


bolverk

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EDIT:
This thread had been posted in the Daily Texan, but Immamac thinks discussing the acquisition of the Panama Canal and Greenland (by force, if necessary, according to Trump) is "politics" but not "news".

 

This isn’t a Cloak Room thread to debate the incoming Administration’s foreign policies. Instead, it’s a news thread about statements/threats made and actions taken. It’s not about what’s right or wrong, nor is it about what’s smart or foolish.

I fully realize some might not like discussing (or even seeing) this topic in the Daily Texan, but the future president of the United States outlined a rather aggressive foreign policy for when he takes office in a watershed news conference earlier today.

This is quite simply news about how our country relates to the world and how others respond: actions, reactions, and consequences.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/07/us/politics/trump-panama-canal-greenland.html?smid=url-share
President-elect Donald J. Trump refused to rule out on Tuesday the use of military or economic coercion to force Panama to give up control of the canal that America built more than a century ago, and to force Denmark to sell Greenland to the United States.

In an hourlong news conference at his Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago, Mr. Trump also reiterated his threat that “all hell will break out in the Middle East” if the hostages being held by Hamas are not released by Inauguration Day, repeating the threat four times.

“If they’re not back by the time I get into office, all hell will break out in the Middle East,” he told reporters. “And it will not be good for Hamas, and it will not be good, frankly, for anyone. All hell will break out. I don’t have to say anymore, but that’s what it is.”

*****

He refused to rule out using military force to retake the Panama Canal, which was given back to Panama by treaty in the late 1990s, and acquire Greenland, which Mr. Trump said was necessary for the national security of the United States.

“It might be that you’ll have to do something,” he said.

*****
 At one point, he suggested that his administration will rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America.

*****

He also repeated his threat not to protect NATO allies, a foundational part of the pact, if they did not increase the amount of money they spend on defense of their own countries.

At one point, he appeared to confirm a recent story in the Financial Times suggesting that he wants NATO countries to commit to spending up to 5 percent of their economic output on defense, a significant increase.

He also criticized Canada, saying that the country should be a state in the United States because of the economic support that the United States provides to the country. He said he would not use military power to achieve that but said that he would use economic power to pressure the American neighbor.

“Why are we supporting a country, 200 million-plus a year?” he told reporters, and then referred to the country’s prime minister. “Our military is at their disposal — all of these other things. They should be a state. That’s what I told Trudeau when he came down.”

Mr. Trump threatened to use “economic force” to join Canada and the United States together, implying that the United States would pare back its purchases of Canadian products.

He also said he would “tariff Denmark at a very high level” if it does not give Greenland to the United States.

Edited by bolverk
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Today, the Danish royal house altered its coat of arms to emphasize Greenland and the Faroe Islands.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-jr-greenland-denmark-king-changes-royal-coat-arms-rcna186518
King Frederik, who assumed the Danish throne after the abdication of Queen Margrethe II last year, has tweaked the royal coat of arms for the first time in more than 500 years, a move that was viewed by historians as a clear signal to Greenland — and perhaps Trump.

“We are all united and each of us committed for the kingdom of Denmark,” the monarch said in his New Year’s address, adding, “all the way to Greenland.”

The changes to the coat of arms, announced Jan. 1, give the Danish territories Greenland and the Faroe Islands their own quadrants, represented by a bear and a ram. Outlining the changes, the royal household explained that "the polar bear became Greenland’s heraldic symbol under Frederik the 3rd in 1666."

They are “a statement and a symbolic signal to the populations of both places that they are significant (and equal) parts of the kingdom,” Peter Aagaard, an associate professor at Roskilde University in Denmark, told NBC News.

Denmark Coat of Arms Greenland Row

 

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https://apnews.com/article/trump-biden-offshore-drilling-gulf-of-america-fa66f8d072eb39c00a8128a8941ede75
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — President-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday said he would not rule out the use of military force to seize control of the Panama Canal and Greenland, as he declared U.S. control of both to be vital to American national security.

Speaking to reporters less than two weeks before he takes office on Jan. 20 and as a delegation of aides and advisers that includes Donald Trump Jr. is in Greenland, Trump left open the use of the American military to secure both territories. Trump’s intention marks a rejection of decades of U.S. policy that has prioritized self-determination over territorial expansion.

“I’m not going to commit to that,” Trump said, when asked if he would rule out the use of the military. “It might be that you’ll have to do something. The Panama Canal is vital to our country.” He added, “We need Greenland for national security purposes.”

Addressing Trump’s comments in an interview with Danish broadcaster TV2, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen called the United States Denmark’s “most important and closest ally,” and that she did not believe that the United States will use military or economic power to secure control over Greenland.

Frederiksen repeated that she welcomed the United States taking a greater interest in the Arctic region, but that it would “have to be done in a way that is respectful of the Greenlandic people,” she said.

“At the same time, it must be done in a way that allows Denmark and the United States to still cooperate in, among other things, NATO,” Frederiksen said.

Earlier, Trump posted a video of his private plane landing in Nuuk, the Arctic territory’s capital, in a landscape of snow-capped peaks and fjords.

“Don Jr. and my Reps landing in Greenland,” Trump wrote. “The reception has been great. They, and the Free World, need safety, security, strength, and PEACE! This is a deal that must happen. MAGA. MAKE GREENLAND GREAT AGAIN!”

In a statement, Greenland’s government said Donald Trump Jr.’s visit was taking place “as a private individual” and not as an official visit, and Greenlandic representatives would not meet with him.

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2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What constitutes "not cloakroom" in this context? The idea of making Canada a U.S. state, renaming the Gulf of Mexico, and taking Greenland and the Panama Canal by force are not serious international policy positions, it's purely idiotic for anyone to say, much less the president of the United States.

Quoting a post from yesterday where @blacklab states the definition: "CR means people’s political opinions, left, right, my team, your team, etc"

Are you suggesting the future president of the United States shouldn't be taken seriously?

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4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I don’t see how this becomes anything but CR. Everything the POTUS-elect suggested today was not just insane, it was immoral, illegal, and harmful to our country and some of our very closest friends and allies.  Any attempt to implement would hopefully spark waves of resignations and if the military was ordered to invade a friendly country, a refusal to implement and impeachment.  There’s nothing to debate here, this stuff isn’t even “a bad idea.”  

I'm not debating shit, but announcing threats against foreign nations is rather newsworthy. That's why I'm posting it in this sub.

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18 minutes ago, 'stache said:

What constitutes "not cloakroom" in this context? The idea of making Canada a U.S. state, renaming the Gulf of Mexico, and taking Greenland and the Panama Canal by force are not serious international policy positions. It's insanely idiotic for anyone to say this type of nonsense, much less the president of the United States.

I think it's an interesting approach. Foreign policy built piecemeal by randomly selected Facebook comments that begin with "How come"

* How come we let them name it the Gulf of Mexico? 

" How come they waste all that waterfront real estate in Greenland? 

Etc etc

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More reactions about the Greenland stuff:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yv10knyd9o
President-elect Donald Trump recently revived a controversy he ignited last month when he said "ownership and control of Greenland is an absolute necessity" for the US. "We are not for sale," the island's prime minister responded at the time.

Asked on Tuesday whether he could rule out using military or economic force on the matter, Trump said he could not.

With a population of 57,000, Greenland has wide-ranging autonomy - but its economy is largely dependent on subsidies from Copenhagen and it remains part of the kingdom of Denmark.

During his first term as president, Donald Trump expressed an interest in buying the Arctic island. He was rebuffed then, as he has been now.

When asked about Trump Jr's visit to Greenland, Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told Danish TV that "Greenland belongs to the Greenlanders" and that only the local population could determine their future.

She agreed that "Greenland is not for sale", but stressed Denmark needed very close co-operation with the US, a close Nato ally.

Greenland's prime minister had been due to meet King Frederik in Copenhagen on Wednesday, but the meeting was postponed because of what Egede referred to as "calendar gymnastics". Danish reports said the prime minister was still due to travel to Copenhagen on Tuesday.

The Danish government's response to Trump Jr's visit has frustrated several opposition politicians in Copenhagen.

Conservative MP Rasmus Jarlov posted on social media in English that "this level of disrespect from the coming US president towards very, very loyal allies and friends is record-setting".

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More international responses to the threats:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/greenland-says-donald-trump-jr-131647204.html
One Greenlandic lawmaker in Denmark's parliament, Aaja Chemnitz, said Trump's interest should be dismissed, Reuters reported.

"I don't want to be a pawn in Trump's hot dreams of expanding his empire to include our country," Chemnitz said.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-wont-rule-out-military-economic-action-he-seeks-control-panama-canal-2025-01-07/
"I don't think it's a good way forward to fight each other with financial means when we are close allies and partners," Denmark's Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said late on Tuesday in response to Trump's comments.

Canada's minister of foreign affairs, Melanie Joly, said on X, "President-elect Trump's comments show a complete lack of understanding of what makes Canada a strong country. Our economy is strong. Our people are strong. We will never back down in the face of threats."

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6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Canuck also jokingly said they should annex Minnesota and buy Alaska.

 

They're frantically pissed about the US winning gold two years in a row at the world junior hockey tournament while Canada doesn't even medal, so I'm not sure that's a joke.

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11 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So is there a thread to discuss the impacts of these plans if they happen?

In the OP, I said I'd like to include a discussion of actions, reactions, and consequences, so I'm good with it.

So that thread doesn't go CR, let's keep it simple: "This happened, and because of it, this other thing happened."

Edit: We've been able to keep the Russian war on Ukraine fairly CR-free, so why not our international relations with the world? Also, I agree with @mchookem that having a place that's a go-to for news updates for those who don't visit the CR is a good thing. 

Edited by bolverk
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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I don’t see how this becomes anything but CR. Everything the POTUS-elect suggested today was not just insane, it was immoral, illegal, and harmful to our country and some of our very closest friends and allies.  Any attempt to implement would hopefully spark waves of resignations and if the military was ordered to invade a friendly country, a refusal to implement and impeachment.  There’s nothing to debate here, this stuff isn’t even “a bad idea.”  

yes!

but the comedy value can't be measured with current technology - by default this is DT

we're already in greenland

thule was built in 1943:

image.jpeg.e735fbb014c50ac6fac80abfca2b9421.jpeg

we also built the following to service the lend-lease highway in the sky:

Narsarsuaq (Bluie West One): The most important base, and the command center for Greenland Operations
Kangerlussuaq (Bluie West Eight): A backup runway for Narsarsuaq, and a station for search-and-rescue, radio, and weather reporting
Bluie East Two: Located in East Greenland, this base was used as an alternate airfield, and for meteorology, navigation, and search-and-rescue
Bluie East One (Torgilsbu): Located on the east coast
Bluie East Three: Located on the east coast
Bluie East Four (Ella Island): Located on the east coast
Bluie East Five: Occupied by German forces in 1943, and destroyed by an American air raid

The United States and the Greenland government formalized an American protectorate in 1941 to preserve the island's neutrality. The American bases and stations were codenamed under the Bluie West and Bluie East moniker.

Today, Narsarsuaq and Kangerlussuaq are civilian airports that continue to be used for transatlantic flights.

our incoming leader's cabinet is going to have to explain quite a bit of reality to him....  they need to start here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_in_World_War_II

i can't wait to hear more about why he thinks this improves our global economic position

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Quoting a post from yesterday where @blacklab states the definition: "CR means people’s political opinions, left, right, my team, your team, etc"

Are you suggesting the future president of the United States shouldn't be taken seriously?

I just don't see how it's a "political opinion" to point out that today's ramblings are literally insane. But like Brisket says, we're living in the dumbest timeline, and a majority of American voters think it's normal, so I just can't tell where the line is anymore. I do think his words should be taken seriously, as in, the guy who is about to take office is seriously demented and is going to harm our country's international standing because he cannot be taken seriously. 

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2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I just don't see how it's a "political opinion" to point out that today's ramblings are literally insane. But like Brisket says, we're living in the dumbest timeline, and a majority of American voters think it's normal, so I just can't tell where the line is anymore. I do think his words should be taken seriously, as in, the guy who is about to take office is seriously demented and is going to harm our country's international standing because he cannot be taken seriously. 

Personally, I don't think it's "political" to say if your opinion is that his statements are insane, but let's try to keep that to a minimum. Let our country's actions speak for themselves.  

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I would actually appreciate more of a news/reaction sort if thread with reasonable but limited potential issues that aren't specifically sided. In particular, the reaction of other contacts/countries to statements and actions are particular useful. Thanks for trying this @bolverk I really do hope it doesn't go off the deep CR end.

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Greenland's melting glaciers seem to be what's spurring the president-elect's interest.

image.thumb.png.9d7844568e10242142e6d1ca7bf7ac33.png

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/07/us/politics/trump-greenland.html?smid=url-share
Greenland’s vast ice sheets and glaciers are quickly retreating as the Earth warms through accelerating climate change. That melting of ice could allow drilling for oil and mining for minerals such as copper, lithium, nickel and cobalt. Those mineral resources are essential to rapidly growing industries that make wind turbines, transmission lines, batteries and electric vehicles.

Because of higher temperatures, an estimated 11,000 square miles of Greenland’s ice sheets and glaciers have already melted in the past three decades, an area roughly the size of Massachusetts.

In 2023, the Danish government published a report that detailed Greenland’s potential as a rich deposit of valuable minerals. The Arctic island has “favorable conditions for the formations of ore deposition, including many of the critical raw minerals.”

The melting ice in the Arctic is also opening up a new strategic asset in geopolitics: shorter and more efficient shipping routes. Navigating through the Arctic Sea from Western Europe to East Asia, for example, is about 40 percent shorter compared to sailing through the Suez Canal. Ship traffic in the Arctic has already surged 37 percent over the past decade, according to a recent Arctic Council report.

China has shown significant interest in a new route through the Arctic, and in November, China and Russia agreed to work together to develop Arctic shipping routes.

Mr. Trump has repeatedly called climate change a “hoax.” But one of his former national security advisers, Robert C. O’Brien, suggested that its consequences are one of the reasons that Mr. Trump is interested in making Greenland a U.S. territory.

“Greenland is a highway from the Arctic all the way to North America, to the United States,” he told Fox News. “It’s strategically very important to the Arctic, which is going to be the critical battleground of the future because as the climate gets warmer, the Arctic is going to be a pathway that maybe cuts down on the usage of the Panama Canal.”

 

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2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

What arms would best represent our strength?

Short list:

Peak Stallone (sly, not frank)

Predator Carl Weathers

Mr. T anytime

others?

 

2 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

and its freaking AWESOME 

 

58 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

dude

c'mon

President Camacho !

 

53 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

not anymore!

we're going global!

no more obscure and unexplained symbols of freemasonry or the bavarian illuminati

no eyes over pyramids

no eagles, spears, arrows or mystical untraslatable latin

 

Embroider this on a coat and you have a literal Coat of arms.

image.jpeg.4cb3b249270e5f0e60689045d4fb82e8.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

How long has Denmark “owned” Greenland?  Why has it not been a threat to the U.S. before now?

It is not that Greenland is now a threat. It was seen as a big ass rock and iceberg birthing center that blocked attacks from the NE Atlantic. As it melts, it is less so. And then there is mineral wealth. Our bitch about Denmark is they spend very little on maintaining any defense items there.

 

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2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

How long has Denmark “owned” Greenland?  Why has it not been a threat to the U.S. before now?

A little over 200 years. They, themselves, are not threats to us, and the poll below shows they want stronger international cooperation with the US.

BUT support for re-entering the EU has increased dramatically in recent years. They also want to curb ties with China and Russia.

https://electomania.es/en/Greenland-60%-opts-to-rejoin-the-EU/

r/europe - Greenland would now vote to join the EU according to the latest polls. It was 40% few years ago

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1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

It is not that Greenland is now a threat. It was seen as a big ass rock and iceberg birthing center that blocked attacks from the NE Atlantic. As it melts, it is less so. And then there is mineral wealth. Our bitch about Denmark is they spend very little on maintaining any defense items there.

 

Denmark recently announced they're increasing defense spending for Greenland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgzl19n9eko

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6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

It is not that Greenland is now a threat. It was seen as a big ass rock and iceberg birthing center that blocked attacks from the NE Atlantic. As it melts, it is less so. And then there is mineral wealth. Our bitch about Denmark is they spend very little on maintaining any defense items there.

 

So there are legitimate security concerns there voiced before recently?

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1 minute ago, Goredho said:

So there are legitimate security concerns there voiced before recently?

Yes, I remember reading a USN document about the opening up of the Artic and how the US could get ready. This included beefing up NORAD's capabilities.

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