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Southern CA Fires- Extreme Santa Ana Winds


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13 hours ago, Foosters said:

Are you trying to say that video shows a man lighting the Eaton fire?

Because the Eaton fire started after dark at the base of an electrical tower per multiple witnesses who took photos.

Yeah and all I can make out is someone standing maybe 50 feet away from where the smoke is originating. Maybe I'm missing it, and maybe that person started that particular fire, but I don't see the 'proof'.

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2 hours ago, pops said:

No. 

Think of a typical golf course sprinkler head. They pump about 60 gpm. Let's say you had 6 to cover your entire property for fire suppression.  Let's pretend the power stayed on to power your pump, you're getting about 6 minutes out of that bladder. 

My relative in Van Nuys has a nice size pool, and is looking into purchasing a system where water is pumped from the 20,000 gallon pool onto  the house and the largest trees nearest the house.   I assume if you can get enough volume of water on an area then the incredibly fast speed of the fire, consuming and moving on, can wind up being your friend as it passes by.

 

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10 hours ago, C-Man said:

While amazing, these planes don't seem to scoop up that much water. This WaPo story says they get 1600 gallons per run. That doesn't seem like much.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2025/01/12/la-fires-super-scoopers/

Turn around time is the key....12 seconds to fill 1600 gallons and an unlimited supply source less than 1, 2 miles away? With a water source that close those two planes are doing much more than people realize. 

Not to derail, but when I first saw the news the other day of them being used and with their quick turnaround time, it reminded me of documentary of the Marines fighting on Peleliu during WW2.

Marine Corsair pilots had most likely the shortest flight bombing runs of the war. After ground troops took the runway, Marine pilots supporting the ground troops upon taking off from the runway, and dropping their bombs just off the departure end of the airfield where Japanese troops were embedded on the cliffs overlooking the airfield and mortaring Marines.  Take off,  drop bombs over departure end, turn back downwind, land, re-arm, and repeat.  

 

10 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Meanwhile, a lifelong friend of mine has a nice home in Chino Hills that backs to a nature preserve.  I just texted him that he needs to buy a gas operated water pump, so he can use his pool water to protect his house if necessary.  He agreed. 

Have him look at these...won't break the bank and will do what is needed. Have him focus on the GPM, so with these at least a 2" discharge. Don't forget at least a 100' discharge line (and nozzle).

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=water pump

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11 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

I don't know dick about pumps, but I would avoid Harbor Freight for a product I'm relying on to save my home. 

There's plenty of videos with them in use. For emptying a pool most likely one time only, It would do what is needed.

I have a submersible (needs electrical though) and it's rated at 60 gpm, bought through Amazon and it has the capability to empty (has) my 17000 gallon pool pretty easily.

To each their own.

Edited by BillyGoatHill
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4 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

If you have a few minutes. This dude did an awesome Job filming the slowly motion freight train that consumed his neighborhood and just how quickly a house burns to the ground and how easily it jumped house to house. 
prob the best video I’ve seen and the firefighters trying their best and them running out of water 

 

 

Not going to lie. I cried after watching this.

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2 of my coworkers (brothers) grew up in Pacific Palisades. Their childhood home burned down along all of their neighbors' homes. They shot a video as they rode their bikes through their old neighborhood (cars are banned), and just blocks and blocks and blocks of burned down homes. No emotion in their voices as they narrated what they saw. Truly devastating to see stuff like this happen to people you know.

 

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12 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

no, it’s near the auto center or something. overheard it on local news. 

wind is supposed to kick up in the next few hours. should be fun. 

One possible good aspect of the wind change will be that instead of coming out of the south and west, it will start coming from the north and east, pushing the fire back into the 'black' (the already-burned area where there is dramatically less remaining fuel) rather than continuing to push it into the unburned areas to the north and east. But we'll see how it goes. There will naturally still be big problems.

Edited by wood
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7 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

My relative in Van Nuys has a nice size pool, and is looking into purchasing a system where water is pumped from the 20,000 gallon pool onto  the house and the largest trees nearest the house.   I assume if you can get enough volume of water on an area then the incredibly fast speed of the fire, consuming and moving on, can wind up being your friend as it passes by.

 

That much water you might have a shot, but the problem still remains.... Where does the power come from to power the pump to move all that water?

Gas and electric are the first things they shut off so your generac isn't going to work. 

I suppose a stand alone diesel generator could do it and based on what we are seeing might be worth the cost and effort. 

No clue if some type of power bank system could work but maybe. 

 

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7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Yeah, it's not emptying the pool...it's having the adequate pressure to pump 20+ feet vertical to get water to the roof and eaves.  

I'm skeptical that a submersible from Amazon can do that.

That takes about 10 PSI to get to 20 feet above

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10 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

My relative in Van Nuys has a nice size pool, and is looking into purchasing a system where water is pumped from the 20,000 gallon pool onto  the house and the largest trees nearest the house.   I assume if you can get enough volume of water on an area then the incredibly fast speed of the fire, consuming and moving on, can wind up being your friend as it passes by.

 

pffft

This is all you need right here

 

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3 hours ago, pops said:

That much water you might have a shot, but the problem still remains.... Where does the power come from to power the pump to move all that water?

Gas and electric are the first things they shut off so your generac isn't going to work. 

I suppose a stand alone diesel generator could do it and based on what we are seeing might be worth the cost and effort. 

No clue if some type of power bank system could work but maybe. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Incredulity said:

I think they are looking for something autonomous/automatic.

 

3 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

That takes about 10 PSI to get to 20 feet above

yeah, my relative is not going to Amazon/MacGyver this - or be home when it goes on.  For a couple grand you can get one of the EcoFlow  battery sources to power it, and I’m sure there are pumps with various flavors of output that could work.  They have crushed white rock that is layered over the top of a tar substance on their roof.  They are already planning to remove the rock, put down some sort of fire retardant surface over the existing roof and then lay another layer of rock on top of that.   if the Santa Ana winds don’t blow east today that is. There are a couple thousand feet from the evacuation zone.

They are fortunate enough to have a paid off seven figure home, so the cost of the system would not be a problem if it works.   Their thinking is that even if it doesn’t 100% protect them, it will be a great selling point for the next purchaser, as it is a multiple level home on a hill and they are getting older and are looking for a one level home in the next five years or so.  

They have a first world problem for sure, and have been spared the tragedies so many of their neighbors and friends have suffered.   They are currently making it rain $$$$ on the local SPCA.

Edited by Gatorubet
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25 minutes ago, locodos said:

pffft

This is all you need right here

 

Well, this sent me down a YouTube rabbit hole.  The company whose pilot was interviewed for this clip (Dauntless Air) is based in Minnesota, but has three hangars with one of them being in Cleburn.  That plane is part crop duster, part seaplane, part (water) bomber, and is the largest production single engine plane on the market.  Those pilots make it look easy.  It isn't.

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13 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

If you have a few minutes. This dude did an awesome Job filming the slowly motion freight train that consumed his neighborhood and just how quickly a house burns to the ground and how easily it jumped house to house. 
prob the best video I’ve seen and the firefighters trying their best and them running out of water 

 

 

Watching this, I was most surprised at how slow-moving the fire was and how almost casual everyone seemed (I know they weren't actually casual) - I always imagine scenarios like this happening really quickly with everyone running around like crazy trying to evacuate. How horrible to see it come at you slowly and still not be able to stop it.

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3 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Our neighborhood is talking about installing rooftop sprinklers 

I can’t imagine any residential water lines could support every homeowner opening up a high volume line for very long. How far have y’all gotten in scoping out the requirements? I’d be very interested in doing the same in my hood if it’s actually feasible.

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First, I can't imagine what some of Surly brethren are going through and my heart goes out to them. My mother in law lives in Sierra Madre and below is a picture from her house on Tuesday night (sent by one of the firefighters). Somehow the firefighters were able to save her small cul-de-sac; they are some true heroes and I can't imagine the exhaustion they must be living with.

Secondly, she has a lot of smoke damage to her personal belongings as well as ash etc. inside the house. She has talked with a restoration company and they want to have her to do an assignment of claim agreement. I just want to make sure she doesn't get screwed as she is a widow; is there anything I should be looking out for as I will be assisting?

image.thumb.jpeg.273f5d97c33b675ea035609b67c8d0d8.jpeg

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Here are the type of pumps you would need to fight fire using your pool.

https://www.northerntool.com/categories/engine-driven-high-pressure-pumps

There’s an $800 one with some hose, nozzle and a suction hose that would probably do the trick. Add in a couple more hoses to further the reach, a couple of cans of non-ethanol gas and your good to go.

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13 minutes ago, davidg said:

Here are the type of pumps you would need to fight fire using your pool.

https://www.northerntool.com/categories/engine-driven-high-pressure-pumps

There’s an $800 one with some hose, nozzle and a suction hose that would probably do the trick. Add in a couple more hoses to further the reach, a couple of cans of non-ethanol gas and your good to go.

I think I'd rather have adequate insurance coverage and no attachments to inanimate objects in my house than stand around next to a fuel filled generator while a raging inferno quickly surrounds me and my limp dick sprayer.

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6 hours ago, MontereyMX said:

could you place the intake hose from a power washer into a pool and spray?  

Even if you could, you wouldn't put out enough water to do any real good. You need GPM for cooling. Pressure doesn't put out the fire. Heat removal via lots and lots of water carrying heat away is what puts out the fire.  The fine high pressure spray would just entrain air and feed the fire.

And for wetting the area down pre-fire, the lack of volume will also be an issue.

Edited by wood
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This is a nice performance by the band Dawes last night on Kimmel.  (Not the full band, just the two brothers.)  This song is over a decade old but it surely works in this context.  Both brothers lost their homes to the fires.  Lead singer/writer Taylor Goldsmith is married to actor Mandy Moore.  I doubt it was easy to go on national TV and do this in the midst of all they're facing.

 

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49 minutes ago, davidg said:

Here are the type of pumps you would need to fight fire using your pool.

https://www.northerntool.com/categories/engine-driven-high-pressure-pumps

There’s an $800 one with some hose, nozzle and a suction hose that would probably do the trick. Add in a couple more hoses to further the reach, a couple of cans of non-ethanol gas and your good to go.

I'm not sure the math works out here. For most folks, those pumps would drain your pool in 1-2 hours max. So it's not like you can just set it and forget it. You'll have to hang around until the fire is literally right on you before you start spraying. At that point, you're going to have trouble breathing, it's going to be insanely hot, difficult to see, etc. Then, if anything goes wrong or you drain your pool and the fire hasn't passed yet, you've most likely lost the ability to evacuate. I think my wife and kids would rather have me around than the house. 

After a little more research, it looks like firefighting resources recommend having 500-1000 gallons per minute (typically by employing 2+ hydrants) to fight a residential fire. You aren't getting anything close to that out of your pool unless you've got multiple pumps. And then you're draining your pool with maybe one lap around your entire house. 

Edited by SquishMitten
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16 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

I'm not sure the math works out here. For most folks, those pumps would drain your pool in 1-2 hours max. So it's not like you can just set it and forget it. You'll have to hang around until the fire is literally right on you before you start spraying. At that point, you're going to have trouble breathing, it's going to be insanely hot, difficult to see, etc. Then, if anything goes wrong or you drain your pool and the fire hasn't passed yet, you've most likely lost the ability to evacuate. I think my wife and kids would rather have me around than the house. 

After a little more research, it looks like firefighting resources recommend having 500-1000 gallons per minute (typically by employing 2+ hydrants) to fight a residential fire. You aren't getting anything close to that out of your pool unless you've got multiple pumps. And then you're draining your pool with maybe one lap around your entire house. 

I don’t think the point of this is to fight an active fire, but to put out any embers that may fall on the house. 

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Years ago I saw some people rig up these type of sprinklers on home made PVC tube bases that straddled the ridge of their roof, then weigh the PVC bases down with sand bags.  The sprinklers were just connected to garden hoses.

shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZAFZGCnJlUUpYvc7L7OOowd0Wym_fCiAOqDR9g19tZ3clEajEk28NeKi2znOKZqbEsOw8MM7_LrDM5xZYruQ9QBS8UaH0nKHNv3D9Vg5aGFKioCtEXxKH4A

 

In todays day and age you could set those up to be activated remotely via internet.

 

No idea about the effectiveness.

Edited by Incredulity
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