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Southern CA Fires- Extreme Santa Ana Winds


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On 1/20/2025 at 11:08 PM, Sbbruin said:

They are definitely going for some PR.  But delighted to be a recipient.  Even if insurance doesn’t cover it, it’s a small price to pay under the circumstances.  Although I’m going to hold the insurance company’s feet to the fire on all of it.

In any event, this should not be a pay or no pay, but rather what they deem reasonable availability under the circumstances. The fact that lots of people are grifting and raising prices has to help you

you weren’t required to move to another city because you had a fire related event in your house.

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4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Damn this map makes me sick to my stomach.

https://recovery.lacounty.gov/eaton-fire/

That's both heartbreaking and opens a serious question of how some structures survived. 

Pulling a chunk out of the heart of the fire, the Red boxes are destroyed houses, green are damaged structures, and Black are undamaged. I would not have expected that many random black dots in the middle.  I'm assuming that a bunch of really smart folks are going to dig into this and understand why the undamaged ones survived.  Was it just the luck of the draw, or is there some lesson to be learned. 

image.png.d51c7fcae2be1db417ec1ed4a2a04643.png 

 

It doesn't change the fact that everyone of those red boxes was a home full of a families belongings; the scale is hard to grasp. 

 

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1 hour ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

That's both heartbreaking and opens a serious question of how some structures survived. 

Pulling a chunk out of the heart of the fire, the Red boxes are destroyed houses, green are damaged structures, and Black are undamaged. I would not have expected that many random black dots in the middle.  I'm assuming that a bunch of really smart folks are going to dig into this and understand why the undamaged ones survived.  Was it just the luck of the draw, or is there some lesson to be learned. 

image.png.d51c7fcae2be1db417ec1ed4a2a04643.png 

 

It doesn't change the fact that everyone of those red boxes was a home full of a families belongings; the scale is hard to grasp. 

 

May be an image of text

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23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dear God.....the comments section.

This entire country deserves to burn to the ground.  Give it back to the insects, humanity doesn't deserve it.

I'm not sure if people posing stuff like "its in the middle of nowhere how does a fire randomly start?" are really just that fucking stupid, or they're being trolls trying to stir shit up.  Either way, more people need to learn to shut the fuck up.

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2 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

I'm not sure if people posing stuff like "its in the middle of nowhere how does a fire randomly start?" are really just that fucking stupid, or they're being trolls trying to stir shit up.  Either way, more people need to learn to shut the fuck up.

No worries.  Their questions were answered: the fires are started by George Soros.  Or alternatively, by Gavin NewScum so he can build the rail line there.  Or alternatively, by Blackrock so it can buy up land and build LA 2.0.

Again, we have no business being a country that exists on this planet.  None.  Shut it down.

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2 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:


I’m going to tell you a story. Keep in mind, it’s just a story and most definitely never happened. Maybe it was a nightmare, idk anymore.

About 13 years ago a young and exuberant Herbie, full of gusto (and piss and vinegar) set out on his 24 hour tour to help the fine citizens of his fair city.

After answering somewhere in the neighborhood of 16-18 calls for help, none of which required any special skill beyond being a halfway competent adult with a few functioning brain cells, it finally happened! A lady heard her husband get up to use the bathroom, and then a thud. She goes to investigate and finds him tits up, dead as a hammer. We show up with the cool shit, tap dance on his chest and then cattle prod the husband a couple times just for good measure and I’ll be damned if the crazy SOB starts breathing again!

All of the sudden, a person appears in the doorway of the bedroom we are half in and half and begins to berate everyone in earshot about how his driveway is being blocked. Mind you it’s 3am, and he’s in his pajamas, but it’s a terrible injustice that there is a slew of emergency vehicles blocking the ingress and egress to his home. The neighbor has evidently been awakened by the flashing lights on the street, and now he is incredibly perturbed that we have blocked his driveway.

So at 3am. With a kindofalive, but wasmostlydeadafewminutesago dude lying at my feet, and supplies scattered everywhere, I get yelled at and asked how much longer this is going to take or else he’s gonna call the police.




People suck. All of them. Every color. Every religion. Every political affiliation. They fucking suck.

You left us hanging. How’d the wife look?

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7 hours ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

That's both heartbreaking and opens a serious question of how some structures survived. 

Pulling a chunk out of the heart of the fire, the Red boxes are destroyed houses, green are damaged structures, and Black are undamaged. I would not have expected that many random black dots in the middle.  I'm assuming that a bunch of really smart folks are going to dig into this and understand why the undamaged ones survived.  Was it just the luck of the draw, or is there some lesson to be learned. 

image.png.d51c7fcae2be1db417ec1ed4a2a04643.png 

 

It doesn't change the fact that everyone of those red boxes was a home full of a families belongings; the scale is hard to grasp. 

 

I’m guessing most of the ones that survived were sealed attics. I’d put money building code is changed within two code cycles (6 years…which is fast for the industry) to heavily discourage vented attics in wildfire prone areas. 

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7 hours ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

I'm not sure if people posing stuff like "its in the middle of nowhere how does a fire randomly start?" are really just that fucking stupid, or they're being trolls trying to stir shit up.  Either way, more people need to learn to shut the fuck up.

Either way….they are that fucking stupid.

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28 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Fuck me.  I didn’t listen to this sage advice.  I just felt I had to see what I had heard.  I lasted less than 5 minutes, and covered just a spec of that map.  I burst out in tears.  It’s devastation beyond comprehension.  And it’s not some far flung place.  It’s where I’ve lived for the last 23 years.  Where I’ve walked my dogs, raised my kids, gone to breakfast, smiled and waved to neighbors.  Enjoyed our little country club.  It’s all gone.  I wasn’t prepared to see it.  My heart is shattered.  But again, I am among the fortunate.  But what drew us here is no more.  We have to stay and see this through though.  We need to stay Dena Strong.  But fucking a, that was a punch to the nuts I wasn’t prepared for.  And i didn’t even see the worst parts.  To say I am sad is trivializing it.  I’m crushed.  This was a community we were so proud of.  25% of people drive around with “Beautiful Altadena” license plate frames because, well, it was.  It was an oasis in this urban metropolis.  And it just got nuked.  We’ll see what rises from it.   

Hang in there man. Now you are ready for it. You know what is there. That is better than being blind to it. You care. You give a fuck. Good. Build on that. Spread that word. Smile to your neighbors.

Focus on tomorrow man. You got this.

 

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31 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Fuck me.  I didn’t listen to this sage advice.  I just felt I had to see what I had heard.  I lasted less than 5 minutes, and covered just a spec of that map.  I burst out in tears.  It’s devastation beyond comprehension.  And it’s not some far flung place.  It’s where I’ve lived for the last 23 years.  Where I’ve walked my dogs, raised my kids, gone to breakfast, smiled and waved to neighbors.  Enjoyed our little country club.  It’s all gone.  I wasn’t prepared to see it.  My heart is shattered.  But again, I am among the fortunate.  But what drew us here is no more.  We have to stay and see this through though.  We need to stay Dena Strong.  But fucking a, that was a punch to the nuts I wasn’t prepared for.  And i didn’t even see the worst parts.  To say I am sad is trivializing it.  I’m crushed.  This was a community we were so proud of.  25% of people drive around with “Beautiful Altadena” license plate frames because, well, it was.  It was an oasis in this urban metropolis.  And it just got nuked.  We’ll see what rises from it.   

Some of the most beautiful scenes in nature that I’ve seen firsthand are of life returning to the forest floor after a massive fire. It always looks different, but it’s still beautiful in a new way. Likewise, I’m sure life will return to your community and it will once again be beautiful. It will take lots of time and adversity to rebuild, but your beautiful community will be back because there are 1000’s that are just like you that built a life there and love it as much as you do. Stay strong. I can’t begin to imagine how difficult this is for you, your family, your friends and neighbors.

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7 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

TexAgs posts during the Eaton and Palisades fires (don't ask why I checked) were all about that. "I'm not sending one dime to California " and the like.

Imagine trying to fight hundreds of structure fires in these conditions?
 

Wild. Dude's going house to house trying to protect exposures with a booster line (smaller line on a reel on top of the engine, usually used for smaller trash/dumpsters fires etc). Doin' what he can with what he has. Never thought I'd ever see anything like that.

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5 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:


I’m going to tell you a story. Keep in mind, it’s just a story and most definitely never happened. Maybe it was a nightmare, idk anymore.

About 13 years ago a young and exuberant Herbie, full of gusto (and piss and vinegar) set out on his 24 hour tour to help the fine citizens of his fair city.

After answering somewhere in the neighborhood of 16-18 calls for help, none of which required any special skill beyond being a halfway competent adult with a few functioning brain cells, it finally happened! A lady heard her husband get up to use the bathroom, and then a thud. She goes to investigate and finds him tits up, dead as a hammer. We show up with the cool shit, tap dance on his chest and then cattle prod the husband a couple times just for good measure and I’ll be damned if the crazy SOB starts breathing again!

All of the sudden, a person appears in the doorway of the bedroom we are half in and half and begins to berate everyone in earshot about how his driveway is being blocked. Mind you it’s 3am, and he’s in his pajamas, but it’s a terrible injustice that there is a slew of emergency vehicles blocking the ingress and egress to his home. The neighbor has evidently been awakened by the flashing lights on the street, and now he is incredibly perturbed that we have blocked his driveway.

So at 3am. With a kindofalive, but wasmostlydeadafewminutesago dude lying at my feet, and supplies scattered everywhere, I get yelled at and asked how much longer this is going to take or else he’s gonna call the police.




People suck. All of them. Every color. Every religion. Every political affiliation. They fucking suck.

LOL I think we probably rolled up to that dude's house a few times too.

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1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

Fuck me.  I didn’t listen to this sage advice.  I just felt I had to see what I had heard.  I lasted less than 5 minutes, and covered just a spec of that map.  I burst out in tears.  It’s devastation beyond comprehension.  And it’s not some far flung place.  It’s where I’ve lived for the last 23 years.  Where I’ve walked my dogs, raised my kids, gone to breakfast, smiled and waved to neighbors.  Enjoyed our little country club.  It’s all gone.  I wasn’t prepared to see it.  My heart is shattered.  But again, I am among the fortunate.  But what drew us here is no more.  We have to stay and see this through though.  We need to stay Dena Strong.  But fucking a, that was a punch to the nuts I wasn’t prepared for.  And i didn’t even see the worst parts.  To say I am sad is trivializing it.  I’m crushed.  This was a community we were so proud of.  25% of people drive around with “Beautiful Altadena” license plate frames because, well, it was.  It was an oasis in this urban metropolis.  And it just got nuked.  We’ll see what rises from it.   

Not to get too personal, and hopefully not too melodramatic, but you should probably consider counseling after this settles down.  I imagine some flavor of PTSD is a real possibility.  Hang in there.

 

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9 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Fuck me.  I didn’t listen to this sage advice.  I just felt I had to see what I had heard.  I lasted less than 5 minutes, and covered just a spec of that map.  I burst out in tears.  It’s devastation beyond comprehension.  And it’s not some far flung place.  It’s where I’ve lived for the last 23 years.  Where I’ve walked my dogs, raised my kids, gone to breakfast, smiled and waved to neighbors.  Enjoyed our little country club.  It’s all gone.  I wasn’t prepared to see it.  My heart is shattered.  But again, I am among the fortunate.  But what drew us here is no more.  We have to stay and see this through though.  We need to stay Dena Strong.  But fucking a, that was a punch to the nuts I wasn’t prepared for.  And i didn’t even see the worst parts.  To say I am sad is trivializing it.  I’m crushed.  This was a community we were so proud of.  25% of people drive around with “Beautiful Altadena” license plate frames because, well, it was.  It was an oasis in this urban metropolis.  And it just got nuked.  We’ll see what rises from it.   

Counterpoint: you had to go look.  You know you had to go.  I know you had to go.  Shit, I still remember the moment I turned to my wife in our living room in Austin, as Harvey was unfolding and the neighborhoods we grew up in were flooding, devastating family and friends we grew up with, who raised us.  I looked at her, choked up as hell, and said "you know I'm going, right?"  She nodded, "I know."  And so we did.  We loaded up with everything we could bring, got there as the waters were receding, and started the work.

You care.  You are responsible.  You are invested in your community.  You had to go.  You've seen it now.  It's burned in your mind forever.   And now, the work really begins.  That's what you do.

8 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Not to get too personal, and hopefully not too melodramatic, but you should probably consider counseling after this settles down.  I imagine some flavor of PTSD is a real possibility.  Hang in there.

And this.  For real.  It's legit.  Don't run away from it.  Use the tools available to you.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And this.  For real.  It's legit.  Don't run away from it.  Use the tools available to you.

Note-- Reading surlyhorns does NOT constitute counseling.  If anything it is likely to worsen your condition.  Honestly, anyone who posts on this site should probably seek large amounts of professional help.

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5 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Note-- Reading surlyhorns does NOT constitute counseling.  If anything it is likely to worsen your condition.  Honestly, anyone who posts on this site should probably seek large amounts of professional help.

I mean, this should probably be sticky-noted into every thread, so...yeah....

200w.gif?cid=6c09b9520pxia4a0kcnl9czumb7

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18 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

TexAgs posts during the Eaton and Palisades fires (don't ask why I checked) were all about that. "I'm not sending one dime to California " and the like.

Imagine trying to fight hundreds of structure fires in these conditions?
 

You don't want Aggy help. Everything would just end up all gross and sticky and gooberish.

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2 hours ago, utee94 said:

Note-- Reading surlyhorns does NOT constitute counseling.  If anything it is likely to worsen your condition.  Honestly, anyone who posts on this site should probably seek large amounts of professional help.

Posting on this site is like signing the Book of the Devil.  No take-backsies

 

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This LAT article from today discusses that the lack of larger water pipes and tanks in the Malibu/Palisades area came down to, at least in part, NIMBY politics trying to stop housing growth. Even if the tanks and pipes had been upgraded it's unknown how many houses could've saved but there seems to be a consensus it would have been a few, at most. 

https://proreader.io/search?url=https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-24/malibu-water-capacity-upgrades-palisades-fire

 

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6 minutes ago, Chopper said:

This LAT article from today discusses that the lack of larger water pipes and tanks in the Malibu/Palisades area came down to, at least in part, NIMBY politics trying to stop housing growth. Even if the tanks and pipes had been upgraded it's unknown how many houses could've saved but three seems to be a consensus it would have been a few, at most. 

https://proreader.io/search?url=https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-01-24/malibu-water-capacity-upgrades-palisades-fire

 

I don't think those upgrades would have made one lick of difference to the big picture, as you could have had one hundred times the volume of available water, and it wouldn't have meant jack shit in fires like that (although perhaps a few more houses may have been saved).  If anything, the only thing that would have helped was lower housing density with planned fire breaks.   I'm confident, though, that the LAT wouldn't miss an opportunity to dunk on everyone's favorite boogieman (NIMBYs).

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3 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I don't think those upgrades would have made one lick of difference to the big picture, as you could have had one hundred times the volume of available water, and it wouldn't have meant jack shit in fires like that (although perhaps a few more houses may have been saved).  If anything, the only thing that would have helped was lower housing density with planned fire breaks.   I'm confident, though, that the LAT wouldn't miss an opportunity to dunk on everyone's favorite boogieman (NIMBYs).

This.

And what most folks forget or never even bother to think -- because they are LASER-focused on reaching a conclusion that supports the view of their political team -- is that infrastructure deficiencies like this 1) to some degree are inevitable, because man cannot defeat mother nature, and 2) to the extent that there are failures, they are close to equally attributable to political impulses from both ends of the political spectrum.

On item 1), think of the still ongoing outcry in the wake of Harvey, where people are demanding more flood control, like flood control reservoirs.  Or, "do seasonal lowering of the existing reservoirs, that will catch the floods!"  Dude.  Math.  In a given drainage, the volume of Harvey's floodwaters was (using made up numbers here, but the scale is accurate) 20 billion cubic feet.  EMPTYING the one reservoir that exists in that larger drainage area would capture.....500 million cubic feet.  In other words, even if you emptied a lake ENTIRELY.....or, if you built a BRAND-NEW lake of similar size (nevermind the cost of condemning thousands of acres of land, including massive existing neighborhoods).....you'd knock 2.5% of the flood volume back.  And a program of "hey, let's spend hundreds of billions of dollars to end up with a flood that's 97.5% as bad as the last one!" is a tough sell.  An wildfire mitigation, especially in SOCAL, any meaningful measures intended to address such once-in-a-lifetime conditions would be similarly costly, with similarly limited benefit.

Bottom line, when mother nature brings 50 inches of rain, or 100 mph dry winds down canyons, bad, bad shit is going to happen.  And there's really not a goddamned think you can do to stop it, or even slow it down.

On item 2), Austin's ice storm experience is a good example.  First, see point 1) - a massive ice storm hit a perfect spot -- seriously, the worst coverage was EXACTLY over Austin's utility area.  Had the storm gone 5 miles north or south, the issues wouldn't have been anywhere close to as bad.  When an ice storm like that hits your entire service area, no matter how prepared you are, you're going to have massive power outages.  But see a big contributor -- lack of tree trimming.  Austin Energy knew it needed to trim trees.  It had been recommending an aggressive program for years.  But, it had two groups who successfully opposed that.  On the left, the (literal) tree-huggers didn't want Austin touching our precious tree canopy.  On the right, "fiscal conservatives" didn't want Austin doing the equivalent of spending money on insurance premiums by spending money on tree-trimming (a cost that gets put into utility rates).  As a result, hey, Austin saved trees!  And Austin saved us all money!  Which was great, until that approach bit us hard in the ass.

I would suspect SOCAL has similar issues going on.  "Don't build more water infrastructure, it's ugly!  And it attracts more construction!"  And "Don't build expensive infrastructure, you just want to tax us to death!"  So, we end up with limited water storage and firefighting capacity.  Although, again, in cases like these literal firestorms.....any help would have been fractional, at best.  100 mph firestorm comes through, everything's gonna burn.  What doesn't burn is pretty much luck of the draw.

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7 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Pretty undeniable at this point that full revisors and working hydrants would have saved many homes, but It would not have stopped the fire. 

Hydrants are not designed to battle widescale wildfires burning through neighborhoods.  The winds and the speed of spread was just way to much to battle.  And air drops weren't possible in those winds

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12 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

I don't think those upgrades would have made one lick of difference to the big picture, as you could have had one hundred times the volume of available water, and it wouldn't have meant jack shit in fires like that (although perhaps a few more houses may have been saved).  If anything, the only thing that would have helped was lower housing density with planned fire breaks.   I'm confident, though, that the LAT wouldn't miss an opportunity to dunk on everyone's favorite boogieman (NIMBYs).

I think analysis of the various public policy decisions that led to this point will be quite interesting, which is why I posted what I thought was a pretty fair article. As someone whose family and friends lost their houses in the Palisades fire, my antenna were raised to any bs. I also provided what I thought was a very neutral description. I'm skeptical of NIMBYs in as general a sense that can possibly be framed though so perhaps I missed seeing a bias that you see. 

If anything it seems like less density and more fire breaks would have only increased the price of housing in that area, while also cutting against public support for additional infrastructure. 

 

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On 1/22/2025 at 4:52 PM, Sbbruin said:

TexAgs posts during the Eaton and Palisades fires (don't ask why I checked) were all about that. "I'm not sending one dime to California " and the like.

Imagine trying to fight hundreds of structure fires in these conditions?
 

Aggy and MAGA are a perfect circle of one.  They're stupid fucking ghouls. 

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