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American Primeval - Netflix


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I started episode 1 around 10:00 last night thinking I'd watch an episode to get a feel for it. At 2:00a.m. I was finishing episode 4 and considering starting ep5... but went to bed since I had early work meetings today. 

Looking forward to the rest. I most likely would not have tried it without seeing this thread- Netflix was pushing it at me but at quick glance my thought was, "nah, not my thing". hah

Edited by KaiserSoze
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i know a little bit about the subject matter

i understand creative license with historical events

this is the jewish space lasers version of the utah war

i watched the first episode

i will go back to it someday when i have time purely for the purpose of documenting it's absurdity

netflix has reached a new low with their own content

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30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I've heard some bad reviews that they're jumping around too much with the characters like with Game of Thrones, except they're not Game of Thrones. I'm praising GoT while they still had source material not the ending.

I'm two episodes in and don't get the sense they're jumping around too much with the characters.  At least not yet.

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6 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i know a little bit about the subject matter

i understand creative license with historical events

this is the jewish space lasers version of the utah war

i watched the first episode

i will go back to it someday when i have time purely for the purpose of documenting it's absurdity

netflix has reached a new low with their own content

I'm not remotely a student of LDS history or the Utah War, but from what little I read on a Google search it doesn't seem like they strayed too far from reasonable dramatic license of some events that occurred (Mountain Meadows Massacre, e.g.).

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5 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I'm not remotely a student of LDS history or the Utah War, but from what little I read on a Google search it doesn't seem like they strayed too far from reasonable dramatic license of some events that occurred (Mountain Meadows Massacre, e.g.).

the first attack before dawn on the morning of 7 september 1857 resulted in 7 dead and 16 wounded

no bows and arrows were used in the initial attack - only rifled weapons

the attack and final massacre took 5 days, not 5 minutes

PLEASE read this wiki on the baker-fancher party, which had to be created as a separate accounting of the factual, documented and cited history, distinct from the church-controlled primary page named "mountain meadows massacre"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker–Fancher_party

+++

During the early morning hours of Monday, September 7,[39] the Baker–Fancher party was attacked, at their Mountain Meadows camp, by as many or more than 200 fighters – Mormon militiamen disguised as Native Americans, and according to some accounts including Paiutes,[40] but this was refuted by some of the survivors.

The attackers were positioned in a small ravine southeast of the emigrant camp.[12]: 158 As the attackers shot into the camp, the Baker–Fancher party defended itself by encircling and lowering their wagons, along with digging shallow trenches and throwing dirt both below and into the wagons. Seven emigrants were killed during this opening attack and were buried somewhere within the wagon encirclement; sixteen more were wounded. The attack continued for five days, during which the besieged families had little or no access to fresh water and their ammunition was depleted.[41]

On Friday, September 11, 1857, two Mormon militiamen approached the Baker–Fancher party wagons with a white flag and were soon followed by Indian agent and militia officer John D. Lee. Lee told the battle-weary emigrants that he had negotiated a truce with the Paiutes, whereby they could be escorted safely the 36 miles back to Cedar City under Mormon protection in exchange for turning all of their livestock and supplies over to the Native Americans.[42] Accepting this, the emigrants were led out of their fortification. When a signal was given, the Mormon militiamen turned and murdered the male members of the Baker–Fancher party standing by their side. According to Mormon sources, the militia let a group of Paiute Indians execute the women and children. Some children were killed while in their mothers' arms or after being crushed by the butts of rifles or boot heels. The bodies of the dead were gathered and looted for valuables, and were then left in shallow graves or on the open ground. Members of the Mormon militia were sworn to secrecy. A plan was set to blame the massacre on the Indians. The militia did not kill 17 small children who were deemed too young to relate the story. These children were taken in by local Mormon families. The children were later reclaimed by the U.S. Army and returned to relatives, and there is legend that one girl was not returned and lived out her life among the Mormons.[43]

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episode 1 opens with a scene at "the end of the line", a railway station on an endless flat plain, ostensibly "St. Joseph" missouri

St. Joseph was indeed the westernmost point in the almost-3000 miles of the US railway system when the Hannibal & St. Joseph railroad was completed.... in 1859

St. Joseph is on a river, not in a flat desert

after a 5-day riverboat trip from st. louis up the missouri river, the Oregon and California trails started from Independence MO

the mormon trail started either in montrose iowa (west bank of the mississippi across from nauvoo) but by 1857 had moved across the state to winter quarters, later omaha, nebraska

the oregon & california trails met up with the mormon trail in bridgeport nebraska

it took TWO MONTHS to travel from omaha or independence to fort bridger; the idiot that made this "series" portrayed it like a taxi ride around the block

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33 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the first attack before dawn on the morning of 7 september 1857 resulted in 7 dead and 16 wounded

no bows and arrows were used in the initial attack - only rifled weapons

the attack and final massacre took 5 days, not 5 minutes

PLEASE read this wiki on the baker-fancher party, which had to be created as a separate accounting of the factual, documented and cited history, distinct from the church-controlled primary page named "mountain meadows massacre"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker–Fancher_party

+++

During the early morning hours of Monday, September 7,[39] the Baker–Fancher party was attacked, at their Mountain Meadows camp, by as many or more than 200 fighters – Mormon militiamen disguised as Native Americans, and according to some accounts including Paiutes,[40] but this was refuted by some of the survivors.

The attackers were positioned in a small ravine southeast of the emigrant camp.[12]: 158 As the attackers shot into the camp, the Baker–Fancher party defended itself by encircling and lowering their wagons, along with digging shallow trenches and throwing dirt both below and into the wagons. Seven emigrants were killed during this opening attack and were buried somewhere within the wagon encirclement; sixteen more were wounded. The attack continued for five days, during which the besieged families had little or no access to fresh water and their ammunition was depleted.[41]

On Friday, September 11, 1857, two Mormon militiamen approached the Baker–Fancher party wagons with a white flag and were soon followed by Indian agent and militia officer John D. Lee. Lee told the battle-weary emigrants that he had negotiated a truce with the Paiutes, whereby they could be escorted safely the 36 miles back to Cedar City under Mormon protection in exchange for turning all of their livestock and supplies over to the Native Americans.[42] Accepting this, the emigrants were led out of their fortification. When a signal was given, the Mormon militiamen turned and murdered the male members of the Baker–Fancher party standing by their side. According to Mormon sources, the militia let a group of Paiute Indians execute the women and children. Some children were killed while in their mothers' arms or after being crushed by the butts of rifles or boot heels. The bodies of the dead were gathered and looted for valuables, and were then left in shallow graves or on the open ground. Members of the Mormon militia were sworn to secrecy. A plan was set to blame the massacre on the Indians. The militia did not kill 17 small children who were deemed too young to relate the story. These children were taken in by local Mormon families. The children were later reclaimed by the U.S. Army and returned to relatives, and there is legend that one girl was not returned and lived out her life among the Mormons.[43]

220,221. 
 

Point I was making is that at least at a very superficial level, the story is  loosely based on historical events. 
 

This is not a documentary, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it purports to be historically accurate. 

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2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

episode 1 opens with a scene at "the end of the line", a railway station on an endless flat plain, ostensibly "St. Joseph" missouri

St. Joseph was indeed the westernmost point in the almost-3000 miles of the US railway system when the Hannibal & St. Joseph railroad was completed.... in 1859

St. Joseph is on a river, not in a flat desert

after a 5-day riverboat trip from st. louis up the missouri river, the Oregon and California trails started from Independence MO

the mormon trail started either in montrose iowa (west bank of the mississippi across from nauvoo) but by 1857 had moved across the state to winter quarters, later omaha, nebraska

the oregon & california trails met up with the mormon trail in bridgeport nebraska

it took TWO MONTHS to travel from omaha or independence to fort bridger; the idiot that made this "series" portrayed it like a taxi ride around the block

Agree that the opening scene did not fit st. Joseph. Looked more like central Nebraska or eastern Wyoming/Dakotas/Colorado. 
 

And yes the time frame for travel to Wyoming from Missouri drew a raised eyebrow. 

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5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

This is not a documentary, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it purports to be historically accurate. 

“Brigham Young and the Mormons feel as though the military is about to attack them at any point in time, so they’ve started their own army called the Nauvoo Legion,”

that's in here: https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/american-primeval-true-story-explained

the fuckers that created this abortion claim they did a ton of research but the couldn't even bother to read the wikis to get even basic facts correct

the Nauvoo Legion dates to the Charter granted by the State of Illinois in 1841

i have no problem when dipshit fakertainment creators make shit up - but don't lie and say you did research and strove for historical accuracy when your end product looks like the placenta of a mastodon abortion

"The American Army is concerned with getting the Mormons out of Utah territory, so they’re nervous that they’re going to die fighting the Mormons." again in the link cited above

Entirely untrue.   A total lack of understanding of the actual history.  Buchanan sent the US army to restore US control over Utah.   UT had 45-60k population at this point.  the US government didn't want to kick them out, but they sat on top of the transcontinental land route and they were in rebellion.

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We binged it over the weekend. Very good. I thought the Abish resolution was contrived, but the rest was gripping.

Thematically, I found it an interesting and sorta new way to indicate the rapaciousness of the westward moving Americans (White man). The Mormons and the US are fighting over who gets first claim on territory that isn't actually theirs to claim. All the while, the people who belong on the land are subjugated and slaughtered almost as a footnote.

All have elements of savagery as seen in Red Feather's decision about the prisoners he takes control over.

Shea Whigham as Bridger is the soul of the movie. Kitsch and Gilpin and the rest of the cast are very good as well. Director Berg must be an attractive draw for actors. 

Edited by RomaVicta
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16 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I'm not remotely a student of LDS history or the Utah War, but from what little I read on a Google search it doesn't seem like they strayed too far from reasonable dramatic license of some events that occurred (Mountain Meadows Massacre, e.g.).

I've read a lot about this. Read Under the Banner of Heaven to learn more, if so inclined. It also gets into the human trafficking and sexual assault prevalent, often upon minors, amongst the Mormon sect as well. It was written by John Krakauer, a lapsed Mormon. 

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2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

We binged it over the weekend. Very good. I thought the Abish resolution was contrived, but the rest was gripping.

Thematically, I found it an interesting and sorta new way to indicate the rapaciousness of the westward moving Americans (White man). The Mormons and the US are fighting over who gets first claim on territory that isn't actually theirs to claim. All the while, the people who belong on the land are subjugated are slaughtered almost as a footnote.

All have elements of savagery as seen in Red Feather's decision about the prisoners he takes control over.

Shea Whigham as Bridger is the soul of the movie. Kitsch and Gilpin and the rest of the cast were very good as well. Director Berg must be an attractive draw for actors. 

Shea Whigham has been great in this.  Of course he's been excellent in just about everything I've seen him in (Boardwalk Empire, Perry Mason, True Detective, etc.)

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I haven’t watched this but I will. 
 

To those that defend the natives and their culture, you might want to read Empire of the Summer moon (or listen, the audio book is excellent). 
 

Their ways and beliefs were truly savage. Like beating women to death with the woman’s own toddler’s corpse savage. Ever tried torture?  They make the Spaniards blush. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Elvis said:

I haven’t watched this but I will. 
 

To those that defend the natives and their culture, you might want to read Empire of the Summer moon (or listen, the audio book is excellent). 
 

Their ways and beliefs were truly savage. Like beating women to death with the woman’s own toddler’s corpse savage. Ever tried torture?  They make the Spaniards blush. 
 

 

I mean there were 5-10x more native tribes than there are modern nations on Earth, so there is a definitely variance in their cultural constitution. But for sure, overwhelming the broadbrush of recharacterization is to paint that whole more as noble than as brutal.

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21 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I watched it. Definitely some outlandish stuff, like the random hills have eyes french family and the scene where the wolves are attacking the kids in the cabin instead of just eating the horses. I also found the ending a bit predictable, but it was a good series.

Those 2 scenes were super random. And yeah. The ending kind of fizzled and was predictable. 

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