Surly official camping and backpacking thread

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

So, I have temporarily given up mountain biking in favor of hiking local trails and am wearing low shoes. 

What kind of shorts do the cognoscenti wear? I have light, quick dry long pants, but basically basketball type shorts and khaki shorts that I need a belt with.  I am kind of digging the basketball shorts. Very free with the elastic drawstring waist and roomy cut, but shitty pockets, but I put everything but a knife in my camelbak. 

Does anyone else do this? 

Edited August 1, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[tomahawk dunk 321]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, I have temporarily given up mountain biking in favor of hiking local trails and am wearing low shoes. 

What kind of shorts do the cognoscenti wear? I have light, quick dry long pants, but basically basketball type shorts and khaki shorts that I need a belt with.  I am kind of digging the basketball shorts. Very free but shitty pockets, but I put everything but a knife in my camelbak. 

Does anyone else do this? 

I like Kuhl & Prana but there is a multitude of choices that are very similar to both those brands. REI, Outdoor Research, Arc'teryx, etc, etc

[Bozo_Casanova 26,335]

34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So, I have temporarily given up mountain biking in favor of hiking local trails and am wearing low shoes. 

What kind of shorts do the cognoscenti wear? I have light, quick dry long pants, but basically basketball type shorts and khaki shorts that I need a belt with.  I am kind of digging the basketball shorts. Very free with the elastic drawstring waist and roomy cut, but shitty pockets, but I put everything but a knife in my camelbak. 

Does anyone else do this? 

I’m 100% birddogs now days. They have the worst and most douchey marketing, but they make great shorts.

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

I wear Prana Zion pants, even when it’s hot. They don’t really get me hot, since they’re UPF 50 and keep the sun out.

 

They do make shorts too, though.

 

The Brion is the same without the side pocket things and snaps, and a slim fit.

 

There is also the Zion straight which has a straight cut in the lower leg for a more casual look.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

I should probably give in and just wear my long pants, my legs and ankles are getting shredded.  But it seems wrong.

Oddly enough, the long pants are some Wrangler stretch poly nylon things that I saw at Walmart and was kind of intrigued and revolted.  I looked them up on amazon and they had like all 5-star reviews, so I got some for 20 bucks.  They're fucking fantastic and even look decent.  Light, stretchy, five pockets (a discreet cargo pocket on leg with zipper), surprisingly breathable. I'm a fairly recent convert to synthetics at least for technical pursuits.

Looks like a lot of the shorts you guys are recommending are similar.

I would be sorely tempted to try the basketball/sports shorts thing on a trip, though. I thought the pockets would be a dealbreaker hiking, but not so far and I don't see it being a problem on an actual trek either.

Edited August 1, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[justhookit 4,184]

10 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I wear Prana Zion pants, even when it’s hot. They don’t really get me hot, since they’re UPF 50 and keep the sun out.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

I wear simple basketball type shorts for hot weather (and most days for working at home during COVID) and REI or Columbia long pants that zip off at the knees for mountain weather.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I wear simple basketball type shorts for hot weather (and most days for working at home during COVID) and REI or Columbia long pants that zip off at the knees for mountain weather.

The elastic drawstring waist seems like it would be either ideal under a hipbelt or maybe a disaster (getting shoved down), but they do seem to offer tons of freedom of movement, which is nice.

[Chewbacca 7,730]

I like Kuhl & Prana but there is a multitude of choices that are very similar to both those brands. REI, Outdoor Research, Arc'teryx, etc, etc

Yep. I just go to REI and pick some out.

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

22 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Very free with the elastic drawstring waist and roomy cut, but shitty pockets, but I put everything but a knife in my camelbak. 

Does anyone else do this? 

I have a pair of kulh shorts, have had some Merrell shorts and REI branded shorts.  They're all nice but mostly I wear a pair of running/gym shorts when it's hot .  They don't hold up as well in the long term, but also cost a lot less. 

I also have some of the Wrangler pants and shirts from Walmart.  So far so good, I mainly wear them as my everyday walking around shorts.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968]

Just pulled in from our four week tour of the western US. Four weeks and we covered 10 national parks,  11 if you count King's Canyon and Sequoia seperately. Was an awesome trip and I will post some more later after I get some much needed shut eye.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Just pulled in from our four week tour of the western US. Four weeks and we covered 10 national parks,  11 if you count King's Canyon and Sequoia seperately. Was an awesome trip and I will post some more later after I get some much needed shut eye.

Oh hell yeah. 

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

Here are a few selections from my road trip to Telluride. Camped one night at Junction Creek campground and the southern terminus of the Colorado Trail, outside of Durango, on the way up. Saw a few thru hikers that were finishing their hikes that morning. 486 miles from Denver. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Biff Tannen

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park

 

[tx 3 putt 76,487]

damn colorado is beautiful 

[Chewbacca 7,730]

damn colorado is beautiful 

Sorry folks, parks full. Moose out front should have told you.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968]

13 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park

 

When were you there? We were just there last week.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

10 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

When were you there? We were just there last week.

July 25 - 31

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

We kind of touched on this earlier, but this is a slightly different question. Now that my paradigm is shifting toward light, low hiking shoes, I am learning that a lot of runners and hikers seem to wear very thin socks.  This seems to be counterintuitive as there still seems to be enough stuff inside even light, cushiony shoes to cause hotspots and blisters.

Seems like most of the sock recos upthread are normal, cushiony sox.  a) true b) false c) depends?

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

If you think about it, the blisters occur because of rubbing between the skin and socks, not skin and shoe.  Now, sure the shoe is what causes the  sock to move around.  But for the same reason most serious athletes of any sport wear tight stretchy spandex, thin stretchy socks will confirm to your foot and move with your foot.  Moreso than thick bulky loose ish socks.  Also consider a thick weave on a big thick sock vs a thin weave.  It's like 50 grit vs 409 grit sandpaper.  

I have a pair of dual layer socks I like, but aren't worth the money, and some people wear a thin inner sock and then whatever other sock on top, weather dependent.  

 

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 hour ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

If you think about it, the blisters occur because of rubbing between the skin and socks, not skin and shoe.  Now, sure the shoe is what causes the  sock to move around.  But for the same reason most serious athletes of any sport wear tight stretchy spandex, thin stretchy socks will confirm to your foot and move with your foot.  Moreso than thick bulky loose ish socks.  Also consider a thick weave on a big thick sock vs a thin weave.  It's like 50 grit vs 409 grit sandpaper.  

I have a pair of dual layer socks I like, but aren't worth the money, and some people wear a thin inner sock and then whatever other sock on top, weather dependent.  

 

Yeah I have done the thin inner, thick outer for years when serious hiking with a pack, but also with boots.  That makes perfect sense to me.  The outer sock cushions and covers and smooths all the joints and seams and the inner sock provides a sort of slick layer, as well as the wicking.

Even with all that, thinner socks inside a shoe doesn't make much sense to me.  But I'm not talking ragg socks or even something as thick as Thorlo's sport socks.  Just regular sport socks with a cushion bottom and thinner top as they tend to be.  The wigwam "ultimax" (I called them coolmax above) that I have aren't super thick and follow the cushion bottom/toe, thin top formula, but they are several years old before the "enhanced trail runner" thing took over.

For these 2-3 mile day hikes I'm doing in lieu of MTB, I'm just wearing whatever comes up in the sock drawer and they're fine.  I'm just wondering about more serious treks.  

Edited August 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah I have done the thin inner, thick outer for years when serious hiking with a pack, but also with boots.  That makes perfect sense to me.  The outer sock cushions and covers and smooths all the joints and seams and the inner sock provides a sort of slick layer, as well as the wicking.

Even with all that, thinner socks inside a shoe doesn't make much sense to me.  But I'm not talking ragg socks or even something as thick as Thorlo's sport socks.  Just regular sport socks with a cushion bottom and thinner top as they tend to be.  The wigwam "ultimax" (I called them coolmax above) that I have aren't super thick and follow the cushion bottom/toe, thin top formula, but they are several years old before the "enhanced trail runner" thing took over.

Again, as with shoes, I think socks really come down to personal preference and figuring out what works through trial and error.  I've used these babies since 2013 (4 pairs total in 7 years) and have had maybe 3 blisters ever.

https://www.wigwam.com/products/p-cool-lite-hiker-quarter-socks.aspx?productid=2888

 

[Your Mom 4,799]

I don't think thick socks cushion as much as we think they do.  Picture that portion of sock under the heel, compressed directly underneath 200 pounds of human.  It's not like it's all billowy under your foot once the weight hits it.  At that point it's probably compressed almost as thin as a thin sock.  There's enough cushion in the shoes.  My opinion only, but I'm a thin sock guy.  They also stink less.  

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Again, as with shoes, I think socks really come down to personal preference and figuring out what works through trial and error.  I've used these babies since 2013 (4 pairs total in 7 years) and have had maybe 3 blisters ever.

https://www.wigwam.com/products/p-cool-lite-hiker-quarter-socks.aspx?productid=2888

 

Those would appear to be the quarter version of the socks that I have that I use(d) with boots and a thin liner.  Bought on sale from Campmor probably about 2010. I like them and wear em when it's cold and I expect to be out for a while because they wick well and therefore keep my feet dry and warm.

Just wondering if I should try something different.

 

[Firemans4Horn 17,868]

Was supposed to fly to Jackson to hike the Teton Crest trail in two weeks but my group called an audible and we’re road tripping from Dallas to Aspen to hike the Maroon Bells four pass loop. Both were probably in my top 5 bucket list hikes so it still feels like a win. 

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

23 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Was supposed to fly to Jackson to hike the Teton Crest trail in two weeks but my group called an audible and we’re road tripping from Dallas to Aspen to hike the Maroon Bells four pass loop. Both were probably in my top 5 bucket list hikes so it still feels like a win. 

Yeah, no wrong answer there.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

Big hike on my Telluride trip was Blue Lake.  11.3 miles topping out at over 12,000 feet.  Altitude got to me at the top and it took me a while, but I made it.

 

 

 

[Chewbacca 7,730]

Big hike on my Telluride trip was Blue Lake.  11.3 miles topping out at over 12,000 feet.  Altitude got to me at the top and it took me a while, but I made it.
 
 
 

I've done longer hikes like that, but anything longer than 7-8 miles round trip just makes my feet hurt these days. Getting old sucks.

[Braff Zacklin 13,431]

 

26 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Getting old sucks.

Better than the alternative, however.

And @Biff Tannen, gorgeous scenery. Hmu if you ever get up to my neck of the woods, especially if you like to mix fishing with the hiking/camping. I am champing at the bit for an excuse to go back out after last month.

[Pato del Muerto 52,364]

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2020/08/31/hikers-run-from-grizzly-while-onlookers-laugh/?fbclid=IwAR3shjuxQtOPSTUrqgj6BVadX64j5_PTpzV3i1S8KCbj6onl9MyImJ_NtB0

[davidg 4,032]

12 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2020/08/31/hikers-run-from-grizzly-while-onlookers-laugh/?fbclid=IwAR3shjuxQtOPSTUrqgj6BVadX64j5_PTpzV3i1S8KCbj6onl9MyImJ_NtB0

Holy shit thread >>>

 

Those hikers scattered like quail,  I guess its a true statement that you only have to beat the slowest person.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

This is kind of premature, but I may need a backpacking stove before too long.

I have a 30-40 year old Camping Gaz "Bleuet" stove that uses pierced butane cartridges.  I have a few left and they actually last quite a while pierced on the bottom of the stove.  Last time I was in a Sports Authority, which is admittedly quite some time ago, they had a bunch of the canisters for sale.  I just assumed that they would continue to be available.

Well, it turns out that Coleman bought them out and discontinued them around 2016.  Furk, it's a great little stove.  It worked at high-ish altitude (RMNP) and cool weather just fine (I ain't scaling Everest or anything anytime soon and I'm not 'packing when it's freeze-ass cold), so I have never needed a liquid fuel stove.

So I guess I would want another *ane canister stove.

 

[Your Mom 4,799]

Can't go wrong with MSR.  I've had a Jetboil for about 15 years.  It's been good and I'm happy with it.  It still shocks me how fast it can boil a cup of water.  I suspect the MSR stoves are smaller and lighter, but my Jetboil hasn't given me a reason to upgrade yet.  

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 minute ago, Your Mom said:

Can't go wrong with MSR.  I've had a Jetboil for about 15 years.  It's been good and I'm happy with it.  It still shocks me how fast it can boil a cup of water.  I suspect the MSR stoves are smaller and lighter, but my Jetboil hasn't given me a reason to upgrade yet.  

Yeah, the jetboils are impressive but I've already got backpacking cookware, so that part of it is a bit of a waste.

The gaz stove looks like this:

So one of that type would be familiar and something I'm used to packing, although now that I think about it, one of the newer gas canister stoves probably isn't going to fit in my "saucepan," like this does.

Back in the early 80s, gas stoves were pooped on for altitude and cold weather use.  The state of the art was the Svea 123 white gas stove.  Small, but a pain in the ass.  We found this little rascal to be really good.

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

Ive had a msr pocket rocket forever.  It's about as simple as it gets, but probably not the best out there.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

2 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Ive had a msr pocket rocket forever.  It's about as simple as it gets, but probably not the best out there.

Seems to be a leading contender.  Was kind of waiting for someone to confirm.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968]

There are plenty of MSR clones on amazon for cheap that get good reviews if you are looking to save some money. The stove technology isn't exactly groundbreaking there. However I get the feeling that you would probably prefer to support MSR versus a chinese factory knocking off there product. But if you are on a budget, that option is out there as well.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There are plenty of MSR clones on amazon for cheap that get good reviews if you are looking to save some money. The stove technology isn't exactly groundbreaking there. However I get the feeling that you would probably prefer to support MSR versus a chinese factory knocking off there product. But if you are on a budget, that option is out there as well.

Yeah, I saw those.  Kind of hard to discern the MSR knockoffs from the knockoffs of other, similar stoves.  Despite my occupation, or maybe because of it, I am not terribly troubled by knockoffs.  Most of the time, though, they're not as good in some or most respects.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968]

For young guys (or girls) who are looking to backpack on a budget they are a godsend, something that just wasn't available ten or fifteen years ago. So there is some good there. But if you can afford to support the company that put in the effort to develop them then that certainly has value as well. It's not exactly groundbreaking technology these days. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are junk, so, as always, look at the reviews on Amazon before buying and keep an eye out for the fake ones.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

That's the sad thing about that Gaz stove.  As simple as it is, it apparently has a very good burner design.  It changed over the years to accommodate bayonet and screw-in canisters and apparently got worse.

So I know that even simple things can make a difference.

I'm cheesed that I didn't stock up on canisters when they were plentiful.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's the sad thing about that Gaz stove.  As simple as it is, it apparently has a very good burner design.  It changed over the years to accommodate bayonet and screw-in canisters and apparently got worse.

So I know that even simple things can make a difference.

I'm cheesed that I didn't stock up on canisters when they were plentiful.

https://www.cleverhiker.com/best-backpacking-stoves

 

I have an MSR pocket rocket that I was going to take on the PCT.  Also a Jetboil and an MSR Windpro 2.  Jetboil is prob my favorite if weight isn't a consideration.  As usual, I'll plug my buddy's site, but it really is a great resource.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

Are the jetboils without the canister anything special?  That is, do they merit consideration if you don't want to mess with that?

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Are the jetboils without the canister anything special?  That is, do they merit consideration if you don't want to mess with that?

I don't follow.  They all have canisters to my knowledge.

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't follow.  They all have canisters to my knowledge.

A naming pitfall.  They seem to refer to those stoves, like jetboil, with the "integrated," heat-transfer/windshield pot, as "canister" or "integrated canister" stoves, which overlaps with "gas canister."

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

You mean this? It has so so reviews it looks like.

https://www.rei.com/product/109604/jetboil-mightymo-backpacking-stove

[TwiceHorn 31,321]

5 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

You mean this? It has so so reviews it looks like.

https://www.rei.com/product/109604/jetboil-mightymo-backpacking-stove

Yeah, I think there are a couple of jetboils that don't include the "canister" thing.  Seems like without it, it's just another stove.  And an expensive one.

Edited September 7, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[tomahawk dunk 321]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

https://www.cleverhiker.com/best-backpacking-stoves

 

I have an MSR pocket rocket that I was going to take on the PCT.  Also a Jetboil and an MSR Windpro 2.  Jetboil is prob my favorite if weight isn't a consideration.  As usual, I'll plug my buddy's site, but it really is a great resource.

I have the Snow Peak LiteMax and like it for the reason it doesn't take up much space. 

Your buddys' site is solid.

[Biff Tannen 45,512]

2 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

You mean this? It has so so reviews it looks like.

https://www.rei.com/product/109604/jetboil-mightymo-backpacking-stove

 

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I think there are a couple of jetboils that don't include the "canister" thing.  Seems like without it, it's just another stove.  And an expensive one.

Oh, you meant the actual pot itself, not the canister fuel.  Gotcha.  

[mininghorn88 2,270]

Just now stumbling across this topic as I spend the bulk of my time in the football forum.  As time allows I will go back and read the preceding 20+ pages.  Glad that I came across this.

I have only been hiking for the last 5 years or so and have only done one multi-day hike (Grand Canyon with some older work buddies) that required sleeping on the ground.  Would like to do more and plan on doing so in the near future.  My issue is that 99.9% of my hikes I do alone. When I do hike with others it is usually with my girlfriend who is a novice at best.  I am 54 years old, a dad, and a grandfather so I hike prepared for just about anything which tends to make my pack much heavier than I need it to be.  Since I hike alone there is no load-sharing.  Plus, with the flexibility of my job I often hike during off-times when there may not be anyone else on the trail.  Most of my hikes have been between 5 to 15 miles long.

In the past year I have hiked the following areas/trails:

El Malpais

Obed: Lilly Bluffs Trail

Cumberland Gap: Hensley Settlement Trail and the White Rocks/Sand Cave Trails

Buffalo National River:  Tyler Bend Area (ticks were horrible), Ponca Wilderness Area (Hemmed-In Falls/Buffalo River)

Petrified Forest National Park

Saguaro National Park

Sedona: Cathedral Rocks and Munds Mountain Wilderness

Smoky Mountain NP: Alum Cave, Mt LeConte/Myrtle Point

In late October the girlfriend and I are driving from East Texas to the Grand Teton NP and Yellowstone NP.  I just hope the weather holds off as I am only driving a 2-wheel drive Silverado.  We plan on driving through the parks and doing a daily hike.  We will be in Yellowstone for 3 days and the Tetons for 2 days.  Any thoughts on some easy to moderate hikes?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,968]

Can't really help you on the hikes since we were just there with an almost three year old and 10 month old and didn't get much hiking in, but for a great dispersed camping spot check out Pacific Creek Trail in the Grand Teton. Drive down the road until you see a sign indicating that You are in the National Forest instead of the National Park. There is a map showing dispersed camp sites and a paid camp site at the end of the road. You will see three or four roads off to the right of the main road. These lead to the dispersed camp sites which are better (and free) than the paid camp site at the end of the road. I think we stayed a site number 8, which even had a bear box. As a side note, mother is room for more than one group to camp at each site, so don't get too thrown off if somebody is already in the spot. The Forest Service folks didn't care as long as you are being responsible and not leaving food out and stuff.