Surly official camping and backpacking thread

[JMFP 1,120]

8 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

Did you do the entire trail? The wife and I are thinking about going down there to hike this but, being in our 70's, we aren't up for the entire trail in one shot. Looking at the map, there are plenty of places  to breakout and only do half of it. If you have done it all, which end would you start from?

https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/us/kansas/elk-river-hiking-trail

 

Spoiler

 

 

The western half of the trail is fairly tame and flat (from what I've read, I skipped that end) but the eastern half is pretty technical in spots, there are a couple of places where you have to scramble a bit over rocks and one place where you have to take off your pack to climb up crack. If you start at the eastern trailhead there is a big, steep hill right off the bat that kind of sucks. I think it's about a hundred foot rise in about a tenth of a mile. But just past it is a pretty neat canyon you kind of maze your way through. I think the roughest part of the trail is the first two miles or so from the eastern end.

I've been on it three times, but I never did the full end to end. The first two times, I took my daughter with me (she was 9 the first time then we went back when she was 10). The first time we started from the eastern trailhead and we only went in about 3 miles then camped and came back the next morning.

If you go down to County Road 5000 there is a place to park and a trailhead sign there where the trail crosses the road. That's where I started both other times and went east from there. I would recommend doing the same, just out and back from that intersection. Going in a couple miles from there to me is the best moderate part of the trail and is a pretty interesting hike. And you'll want to remember your trekking poles.

 

[Shoxthemonkey 1,981]

13 hours ago, JMFP said:

https://www.alltrails.com/explore/trail/us/kansas/elk-river-hiking-trail

 

  Hide contents

 

 

The western half of the trail is fairly tame and flat (from what I've read, I skipped that end) but the eastern half is pretty technical in spots, there are a couple of places where you have to scramble a bit over rocks and one place where you have to take off your pack to climb up crack. If you start at the eastern trailhead there is a big, steep hill right off the bat that kind of sucks. I think it's about a hundred foot rise in about a tenth of a mile. But just past it is a pretty neat canyon you kind of maze your way through. I think the roughest part of the trail is the first two miles or so from the eastern end.

I've been on it three times, but I never did the full end to end. The first two times, I took my daughter with me (she was 9 the first time then we went back when she was 10). The first time we started from the eastern trailhead and we only went in about 3 miles then camped and came back the next morning.

If you go down to County Road 5000 there is a place to park and a trailhead sign there where the trail crosses the road. That's where I started both other times and went east from there. I would recommend doing the same, just out and back from that intersection. Going in a couple miles from there to me is the best moderate part of the trail and is a pretty interesting hike. And you'll want to remember your trekking poles.

 

Thanks for the info. Sounds like the western end will be the best choice for us. We walk a lot but it’s almost always on gravel roads or prepared trails with minimal climbing. My wife has RA in her hands that makes it hard for her to monkey through a section. She is awfully stubborn though and will tackle a section just to show that it won’t whip her. 

[mininghorn88 2,293]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:51 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Dammit, everything is permitted now.  I get it and it's for good reason, but it seems like I should have gotten all of these things out of the way 10 years ago when I first got into hiking.  That said, in my experience, anything more than a quarter mile off the main roads and main attractions is pretty much solitude in most national parks still.

Yes, the permitting is an irritant for me too. Been hiking for some time now and have gotten a lot of hikes and parks in at my leisure.  Having to get a permit has removed some of my spontaneity of just deciding to hop in the truck and take off for a week or so and work remotely while getting some quality hiking and sightseeing in.  During 2020 and early 2021 I was able to get a lot in before the real craziness set in.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Anyone have anything exciting lined up this spring/summer?  I don't, other than a Colorado Bend trip in April, which I'm sure will be shitty weather, because that's my curse with that park.

PCT itch has been ripping into my brain for 2023 though.  Very seriously considering that after my 2020 abort.

[tomahawk dunk 339]

20 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Anyone have anything exciting lined up this spring/summer?  I don't, other than a Colorado Bend trip in April, which I'm sure will be shitty weather, because that's my curse with that park.

PCT itch has been ripping into my brain for 2023 though.  Very seriously considering that after my 2020 abort.

I've moved my 19% level of commitment up to 83% for the PCT. Have a later start date roughly 300 miles out from Campo. In process of trying to move date up some.

Not totally ready for it but if not now, when?

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

11 minutes ago, tomahawk dunk said:

I've moved my 19% level of commitment up to 83% for the PCT. Have a later start date roughly 300 miles out from Campo. In process of trying to move date up some.

Not totally ready for it but if not now, when?

For this year?

[tomahawk dunk 339]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

For this year?

Yep. I struck out in November and January trying to get a permit. Literally just got one a week or so ago. Start is at Cajon Pass later in May. Going to try to move it up some if I can.

There is a Facebook group that Yogi (Yogi's PCT handbook) posts in that has been super helpful for me. Was really bummed when I didn't get permit but the Yogi had a post on how you can still hike without the long distance permit that gave me a lift. Been checking the portal like crazy and this date popped up. Now I don't have to do all the individual permits.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

1 hour ago, tomahawk dunk said:

Yep. I struck out in November and January trying to get a permit. Literally just got one a week or so ago. Start is at Cajon Pass later in May. Going to try to move it up some if I can.

There is a Facebook group that Yogi (Yogi's PCT handbook) posts in that has been super helpful for me. Was really bummed when I didn't get permit but the Yogi had a post on how you can still hike without the long distance permit that gave me a lift. Been checking the portal like crazy and this date popped up. Now I don't have to do all the individual permits.

Check your DMs.  I want to continue this convo, as it seems permits have gotten nuts.  It was nuts already in 2020, but curious as to your experience.

[Your Mom 4,806]

This caught my eye today and I thought a few of you might like it.  I haven’t watched any of it yet.  Documentary crew follows a group of strangers on the 1200 Pacific Northwest Trail through Montana, Idaho, and Washington.  Weather, grizzlies, etc…   I guess  the PNT is supposed to be the most rugged of the long trails. 

https://watch.outsideonline.com/series/thru-the-pacific-northwest/7TasvQGk-HU6Xm3Rk
 

 

[Shoxthemonkey 1,981]

We did the Lighthouse Trail at Palo Duro SP yesterday. Took just under 4 hours. Not too bad for a couple of olds. The wife made it to the bottom of the last scramble and stayed put. SIL and I went to the top while my daughter stayed behind with her mom. Lots of folks on the trail and I was amazed at how unprepared many of them were. No water bottles, little kids in strollers, whatever. It’s an easy enough hike but it sure seems like some don’t give it enough respect. On the way out of the park there was a line of incoming traffic a good mile past the gate. Nuts. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

5 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

We did the Lighthouse Trail at Palo Duro SP yesterday. Took just under 4 hours. Not too bad for a couple of olds. The wife made it to the bottom of the last scramble and stayed put. SIL and I went to the top while my daughter stayed behind with her mom. Lots of folks on the trail and I was amazed at how unprepared many of them were. No water bottles, little kids in strollers, whatever. It’s an easy enough hike but it sure seems like some don’t give it enough respect. On the way out of the park there was a line of incoming traffic a good mile past the gate. Nuts. 

I need to get back there.  I grew up in the panhandle (lived in Austin, but spent several weeks with the grandparents up there every summer) and have some great memories.  Palo Duro, the Texas musical, etc.  My mom got caught in a flash flood in Palo Duro when she was a kid and almost got swept away in the old VW Van.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

11 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

We did the Lighthouse Trail at Palo Duro SP yesterday. Took just under 4 hours. Not too bad for a couple of olds. The wife made it to the bottom of the last scramble and stayed put. SIL and I went to the top while my daughter stayed behind with her mom. Lots of folks on the trail and I was amazed at how unprepared many of them were. No water bottles, little kids in strollers, whatever. It’s an easy enough hike but it sure seems like some don’t give it enough respect. On the way out of the park there was a line of incoming traffic a good mile past the gate. Nuts. 

Shoot, we did The Narrows at Zion six years ago on July 4th weekend during our honeymoon, and there were people in flip flops multiple miles upstream. And that "hike" is basically wading upstream through the river with a few breaks of dry ground in between. I've hiked on dry ground with flip flops and a baby carrier on my back, but hiking in the water with a strong stream flowing against you is a whole different ballgame. I don't know how they did it, but I'm sure they regretted it.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

Also, several years ago we did a day hike up to the top of Emory Peak in Big Bend. We were coming down as the sun was going down with maybe a half an hour before sunset, and we passed a group of likely first time backpackers who had old school huge and heavy external frame packs with multiple gallons of water just swinging around hanging to their packs. All of their gear looked they got it from their parents. We felt bad for them, but hopefully their first permit was for one of the camping spots that was lower down.

[Shoxthemonkey 1,981]

6 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Shoot, we did The Narrows at Zion six years ago on July 4th weekend during our honeymoon, and there were people in flip flops multiple miles upstream. And that "hike" is basically wading upstream through the river with a few breaks of dry ground in between. I've hiked on dry ground with flip flops and a baby carrier on my back, but hiking in the water with a strong stream flowing against you is a whole different ballgame. I don't know how they did it, but I'm sure they regretted it.

There was a couple coming away from the Lighthouse that was barefoot. Carrying an infant. Real hippy looking folks. They were so dirty I assume they lived that way. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Some pics from an overnight at Colorado Bend two weekends ago.

[TexasEd 8,067]

Palo Duro Canyon back in October 

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by TexasEd

[TexasEd 8,067]

Lost Maples. We used to go from San Antonio when I was a kid. 
 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

Lost Maples. We used to go from San Antonio when I was a kid. 
 

Lost Maples was my first backpacking trip ever.  I try to get back every year.  Love that place.

[stc 1,462]

just spent a week in arkansas. was planning on a buffalo river trip but we got heavy storms and the river was too high, made for good waterfalls though. had never spent any time there, was quite beautiful...but my god the ticks were terrible. all of the campgrounds we stayed at were virtually empty. we did shady lake>white rock mtn>long pool>steel creek>devil's den state park. devil's den is basically the garner state park of arkansas. bunch of ccc buildings/trails and a shitload of campsites by the river. stll need to get back for a river float. 

[mininghorn88 2,293]

10 minutes ago, stc said:

just spent a week in arkansas. was planning on a buffalo river trip but we got heavy storms and the river was too high, made for good waterfalls though. had never spent any time there, was quite beautiful...but my god the ticks were terrible. all of the campgrounds we stayed at were virtually empty. we did shady lake>white rock mtn>long pool>steel creek>devil's den state park. devil's den is basically the garner state park of arkansas. bunch of ccc buildings/trails and a shitload of campsites by the river. stll need to get back for a river float. 

I tried to do some hikiing up there in 2020.  I ended up abandoning one of the hikes because the trails were overgrown and I was stopping every 100 feet or so picking dozens of ticks off of me.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

42 minutes ago, stc said:

just spent a week in arkansas. was planning on a buffalo river trip but we got heavy storms and the river was too high, made for good waterfalls though. had never spent any time there, was quite beautiful...but my god the ticks were terrible. all of the campgrounds we stayed at were virtually empty. we did shady lake>white rock mtn>long pool>steel creek>devil's den state park. devil's den is basically the garner state park of arkansas. bunch of ccc buildings/trails and a shitload of campsites by the river. stll need to get back for a river float. 

I did a very similar trip memorial weekend a few years back. Got washed out of the Buffalo River, plus it was packed for Memorial Weekend. Devil’s Den is great. Also hit the southern terminus of the Ozark Highlands Trail. Ticks GALORE. We spent over an hour picking them out of our two pup’s paws. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

Arkansas has some pretty great places. If you are looking for a good family friendly place to go, check out Petit Jean State Park. One of our favorites. But the state parks there fill up fast. It almost pains me to say it, but Robber's Cave State Park in Oklahoma is one of the best places to go for a weekend trip if you are coming from an area close enough in Texas. And it is much easier to get a reservation there.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

8 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Arkansas has some pretty great places. If you are looking for a good family friendly place to go, check out Petit Jean State Park. One of our favorites. But the state parks there fill up fast. It almost pains me to say it, but Robber's Cave State Park in Oklahoma is one of the best places to go for a weekend trip if you are coming from an area close enough in Texas. And it is much easier to get a reservation there.

That’s on my list. Jesse James gang right?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

Yep.

[hookemATL 11,758]

I am going to be in the Calgary area for work in June and have decided to take advantage of some idle travel days and make the trip to Banff NP. 

My initial thought was to do 2-day backpacking trip, on a relatively moderate trail(s), where I can set up camp on the first day and then just spend a day exploring before hiking out. 
 

I’ve searched through some trails in the area and think that this one could work well:

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/canada/alberta/giant-steps-via-paradise-creek?u=i&u=i

now I have no familiarly with backpacking in the Great Wide North, but I consider myself a very capable camper/hiker/backpacker and this trail/difficulty shouldn’t be an issue. 
 

Has anyone hiked in Banff and/or Canada?  I know I will need some permits (national park permit, backcountry permit, prolly fishing license) but I am curious if there are any other helpful tips from those with experience with either the area or hitting up trails in Canada. 
 

I will caveat all of this with the fact that I will be doing this SOLO. Im well aware of the bear issue (they can smell the menstruation!), and I’d assume that bear spray would be an essential. Not really worried about water as it is in abundance and I have life straw and tablets. Food wise I was just going to pack dehydrated meals and some other high protein and trail friendly snacks. 
 

 Additionally, I have never tried to travel with camping gear before and am quite unawares of what is or isn’t allowed to pack in my backpack. I have a jetboil system and a small camp stove (each use camp fuel/white gas). I also plan to bring a fixed blade knife that I like to take with me on my trips usually. 
 

this is kind of coming together last minute so any input and/or deeply personal criticisms or insults are welcomed. 

[Your Mom 4,806]

40 minutes ago, hookemATL said:

 Additionally, I have never tried to travel with camping gear before and am quite unawares of what is or isn’t allowed to pack in my backpack. I have a jetboil system and a small camp stove (each use camp fuel/white gas). I also plan to bring a fixed blade knife that I like to take with me on my trips usually. 

Stove, sans fuel, can be carried on or checked.  Knife can be brought on in checked luggage only. Fuel canisters cannot be brought aboard at all.  Never been to Banff but I'd guess fuel is easy to find before you venture out.

[Anton Chigurh 3,319]

I have flown with gear using SWA twice (since the bags are free).

Both times were DAL -> LAS. First time was fine, second time one of my bags did not make the trip. I would not have have been able to wait around for it, and they couldn’t really ship it, since I would be in the middle of nowhere and changing locations, so SWA bought me a bunch of new gear and gave me a big voucher for my trouble. I picked up my lost bag when I got back, and ended up with about $900 in free stuff. So, it was a pain but they did take care of me.

[Upgrayedd 5,814]

Did a trip to Yosemite by flying SWA into San Jose.  2 duffles per kid.  Cooler was checked bag stuffed with tents/bags/etc.  No fuel.  Grabbed rental van and stopped at store for provisions/fuel/etc.

 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Yeah, as everyone said, fuel is the only thing you'll have to wait and get there.  I will say that going solo in grizzly country is...frowned upon.  Definitely bear spray, but I'm sure the rangers will let you know what they think.  

[hookemATL 11,758]

If all else fails I will have sex with the bear to prove my dominance. That or I will sidle up to a group of fellow hikers that includes a rotund guy. That way I’ll just shove him down and run away to let the bears feast on a more substantial corpse. 
 

Also, I guess early/mid June isn’t as bad for bear activity. I’ve read lots of historical reports and whatnot on the area I will be hiking in and it doesn’t SEEM to be a hotspot or anything. I will have bear mace as recommended and will do all the things you are supposed to do when in bear country. 

[stc 1,462]

Finally crossed Devils River off the list. Spent 3 nights in the state natural area last weekend. Finnegan Springs is an incredibly beautiful area...up to 25,00 gallons per minute at its peak (although it was only at 10,000 gpm when we were there). There's about a 200 yard stretch of crystal clear and cold ankle deep water flowing over limestone with water bubbling out of the ground about every 10 yards. The roads in the park are pretty rough, wouldn't attempt it without high clearance. The second night we were out there we heard a mountain lion screaming on the ridge above our campsite, scariest thing I've ever heard while camping...straight up demon noises. 

[Carl Spackler 3,486]

Did some truck camping in Mojave National Preserve back in April.  This particular area of the Preserve has the largest/densest concentration of Joshua trees in the world according to the NPS.  Unfortunately, they had a large fire a couple years ago that burned over 40K acres of the Preserve and 1.3M J-trees.  The road in the photo served as a fire break of sorts -- most of the trees to the left of the road survived.  Everything to the right was burned.        

 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

On 4/18/2022 at 10:03 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Lost Maples was my first backpacking trip ever.  I try to get back every year.  Love that place.

Just grabbed a primitive site at Lost Maples for October 29th.  All weekends in November are already booked up.  

[stc 1,462]

3 night backpacking trip in Colorado. Camped at 11,500 ft. Bitch of a hike, 3.5 miles and 3,000 vertical feet...plus the beetle kill had dead trees all across the trail. 3 lakes, great fishing in all of them.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

NICE!  Where at exactly, if I may inquire?

[stc 1,462]

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

NICE!  Where at exactly, if I may inquire?

Stout Creek, Sangre de Cristo range. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Well this is good news that I wasn't aware of.

https://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/the-inflation-reduction-act-is-a-huge-investment-in-backpacking

 

Quote

The Inflation Reduction Act Is a Huge Investment in Backpacking

From funding for conservation projects to mitigating wildfires, public lands win big.

AUGUST 18, 2022ISAK KVAM

---

 

This week, President Biden signed the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (IRA), the largest climate bill ever passed in the United States. The new law provides $369 billion to take on climate change and will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 40 percent by 2030. That’s good news for everyone who likes breathing or enjoys survivable temperatures. But for backpackers, it’s even better: The IRA is going to put billions of dollars of funding into fixing and protecting America’s wild spaces.

One of the biggest and most visible ways the IRA affects backpacking is by investing in public land conservation, preservation & resiliency projects. The IRA includes $500 million for conservation and ecological restoration projects on National Park Service and Bureau of Land Management land. It also doles out $500 million for the NPS to hire more employees to better address its staffing shortage, and it provides $200 million for the NPS deferred maintenance backlog—a small but important step, given that it has swollen to $21.8 billion. In total, this $1.2 billion in funding will help improve campgrounds, build trails, and make the ecosystems themselves more resilient to climate change.

The IRA also provides meaningful investments to help deal with one of the biggest threats facing hikers in the West: wildfires. The act sets aside $2 billion to make public lands more resilient to wildfire and $50 million for protecting old growth forests. There’s also $700 million for the Forest Legacy Program, which conserves private forests, and $1.5 billion for planting trees in and around urban areas & underserved communities.

Land managers plan to use the much-needed wildfire money for conducting prescribed burns, cutting fire breaks, and funding other projects that help limit the frequency and severity of wildfires — something that’s increasingly important as record blazes affect Yosemite, Kings Canyon, and Sequoia National Parka and longer, more intense wildfire seasons threaten the viability of thru-hiking long trails in one season. While this won’t stop mega-fires, it’s the first step that’s needed in order to make them less severe and less costly.

“While our national parks have experienced some of the worst effects of climate change, this bill shows that our parks remain a solution and unifying force to combat it,” said Theresa Pierno, President and CEO of the National Parks Conservation Association. “This bill puts us on a path forward to start addressing the climate crisis and make our parks stronger and more resilient for the future.”

The list goes on. Like hiking on the coast? There’s $2.6 billion for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to conserve coastal & marine habitats and their communities. Maybe you backpack to see wildlife. There’s $125 million for the Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) to implement recovery plans for species listed from the Endangered Species Act, as well as $121.25 million for restoring wildlife refuges and addressing invasive species.

Just days after the president signed the IRA into law, details on exactly where and how these funds will be spent are still sparse. One thing’s clear, however: This is one of the largest investments our public lands have received in recent history, and it has the potential to make a big impact.

 

[hookemATL 11,758]

Banff NP. Total seclusion with stunning surroundings. More snow than I bargained for, but an unforgettable adventure. Canadian Rockies are a must. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

Canadian Rockies are so amazing.  Moraine Lake is the prettiest place I've ever been on this planet.

[hookemATL 11,758]

36 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Canadian Rockies are so amazing.  Moraine Lake is the prettiest place I've ever been on this planet.

After leaving Banff I made the 8 hour drive to Vancouver. Incredibly scenic driving and places to camp all along the way. Heaven. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

2 hours ago, hookemATL said:

After leaving Banff I made the 8 hour drive to Vancouver. Incredibly scenic driving and places to camp all along the way. Heaven. 

I did the same from Jasper. Then went over to Vancouver island and hit uclulet, Tofino, and Victoria. Just amazing. 

[Your Mom 4,806]

The snowman has convinced me to vote for him for class President and all my wildest dreams will come true. 

[tomahawk dunk 339]

I just recently got back from doing the PCT this year a few days ago. Fires cut short parts of NorCal, OR and WA but overall was a great experience for me. Zero regrets on doing it. 

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

1 hour ago, tomahawk dunk said:

I just recently got back from doing the PCT this year a few days ago. Fires cut short parts of NorCal, OR and WA but overall was a great experience for me. Zero regrets on doing it. 

My man!  Amazing!

[Your Mom 4,806]

21 hours ago, tomahawk dunk said:

I just recently got back from doing the PCT this year a few days ago. Fires cut short parts of NorCal, OR and WA but overall was a great experience for me. Zero regrets on doing it. 

If you could give us a quick summary of everything you saw and did from day one until the end that would be great.  
Seriously though, post up some pics, tell us some stories.  Would love to hear more about it.  

[tomahawk dunk 339]

[tomahawk dunk 339]

I didn’t take the best of pics but above are some from the desert section.

I always loved the mornings in the first hour of hiking.

Horsewoman. She came up behind on the horse and kinda freaked me out. I compressed myself up against the mountain as much as I could. 
I later met her Mom who was doing her support. She had 3 different horses and she had already done the PCT on horseback 2-3 times.

Some local team roper guys at Eagle Rock on Easter.

Mike’s Place.

Overcast day on the trail outside of Paradise Valley Cafe.

[tomahawk dunk 339]

Forgot about the gate.

There was lots of reviews in the Far Out app on all of the gates and other random shit. They were fun to read to pass time. Most days hiked about 10 hours. Sometimes less and sometimes more.

In the first 2-3 weeks was just trying to survive. You quickly get into the routine of eat, sleep and hike. 
Met  lots of great people. Half were non US. Met a guy named Josh who was going to attempt Fastest Known Time on the PCT. (He got it done in 59 days and change). Met another guy named Quadzilla who was doing the PCT, AT and CDT all in the same calendar year.

Still getting situated now that I’m home. They say the PCT takes 6 months. 5 to do it and 1 month to reintegrate back into everyday life. Feels accurate to me.

[Carl Spackler 3,486]

Always been kind of a dream of mine to do the PCT, but I think it will likely stay a dream.  Post some more pics if you can.  Did you start out in April?

[tomahawk dunk 339]

2 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

Always been kind of a dream of mine to do the PCT, but I think it will likely stay a dream.  Post some more pics if you can.  Did you start out in April?

Yeah, early April.

They say the toughest part is getting to the terminus. Which strikes me as true. Once you get there and get going, you kinda figure it out as you go.