Surly official camping and backpacking thread

[Biff Tannen 45691]

18 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

I know next to nothing about Oregon except lots of beaches, lots of waterfalls, loose drug therapy laws, also Goonies vs. Stand By Me cage match. Disappointed to learn that the train bridge scene in SBM was actually in California.

Lots of good info and links here if you want to know more. 
 

https://www.oregonhikers.org

 

And AllTrails is really good now. 
 

https://www.alltrails.com

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Death Canyon Shelf morning 2, Grand Tetons Wyoming

Landed a couple hours ago, desperately trying to stay awake for this Texas Game. 🤘
 

[Carl Spackler 3486]

Just got back from car camping a couple nights in the White Mountains.  Dark sky was great -- the stars really popped at night.  This shot is looking west at the start of the 4x4 trail heading down Silver Canyon to the Owens River valley and the town of Bishop.  The mountains in the distance are the Sierra Nevada.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Carl Spackler

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Girl’s do it better…

 

 

 

The guy on the far right was a random traveler that we met last year in Glacier. He was on a sort of sabbatical after rehabbing from being hit on his motorcycle. Was in a coma for a month. Metal femur, screws in his shoulder, some kind of permanent spine stimulator that has to be recharged. He did not have confidence to do overnighters at the time. He did 4 nights with us a year later.

 

The guy on the right in the below is just a regard.

[Carl Spackler 3486]

7 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Girl’s do it better…

 

C3B6725C-8ACD-4501-996C-5462AFB87F32.mov 1.68 MB · 0 downloads  

 

 

The guy on the far right was a random traveler that we met last year in Glacier. He was on a sort of sabbatical after rehabbing from being hit on his motorcycle. Was in a coma for a month. Metal femur, screws in his shoulder, some kind of permanent spine stimulator that has to be recharged. He did not have confidence to do overnighters at the time. He did 4 nights with us a year later.

 

The guy on the right in the below is just a regard.

Wow, kudos to that dude for coming back from such a horrendous accident.

[Walser 1109]

hey everybody whattaya guys up to

[Biff Tannen 45691]

6 minutes ago, Walser said:

hey everybody whattaya guys up to

Heading to Tahoe beginning of November to get a couple of PCT miles in.  

Davis Mtns beginning of December.

Thinking about maybe thru hiking the Lone Star Trail in Dec or Jan.

Then northern Sierras on the PCT next July for a couple of weeks. 
 

You?

[Superhero 8830]

Looking for recs on a backpacking tent, sleeping pad and chair.

I’m set on the sleeping bag (REI Magma 30) but need everything else.

 

My daughter and I have “graduated” from the Adventure Princess program and are now doing “older” girl stuff. We didn’t make the recent backpacking trip (San Jacinto near Palm Springs) but will likely do as many trips as possible from here on out.p

[Biff Tannen 45691]

8 hours ago, Superhero said:

Looking for recs on a backpacking tent, sleeping pad and chair.

I’m set on the sleeping bag (REI Magma 30) but need everything else.

 

My daughter and I have “graduated” from the Adventure Princess program and are now doing “older” girl stuff. We didn’t make the recent backpacking trip (San Jacinto near Palm Springs) but will likely do as many trips as possible from here on out.p

A lot of this depends on budget and weight preference.

 

Tent: 

If it's going to be the two of you sharing, I'd actually recommend a 3 person tent.  Generally, unless you are solo, the rule is to go one person larger than your actual group size.  I have a Marmot Limelight 3 for backpacking with my wife.  It also fits the dogs, albeit a bit snugly.  It's a tad heavier than I'd like for backpacking, but does the job for overnights and shorter (>15 mile) daily mileage trips.  

The lighter you go, the more expensive it will be.  Big Agnes will be the most common top of the line backpacking tents, but they get pricey.

 

Sleeping pad:

Closed cell vs inflatable

I actually double up on both, but that decision was made after a lot of trial and error and figuring out how I sleep best in the backcountry.  

 

Inflatable:

If budget isn't an issue, I'd go straight for the Thermarest Neoair Xlite.  This is the gold standard in backpacking and is quite comfy, as far as inflatables go.

https://www.rei.com/product/217082/therm-a-rest-neoair-xlite-nxt-sleeping-pad

 

Closed cell:

These will be much cheaper and again, I'd point you to thermarest.

https://www.rei.com/product/829826/therm-a-rest-z-lite-sol-sleeping-pad

 

Like I said, I actually use both when I camp.  Z lite Sol on the bottom, Xlite on top of that.

 

Finally, I'll again shamelessly plug a great site that my buddy created.  Tons of gear reviews, trip guides, and basic backpacking skill videos:

https://www.cleverhiker.com/

[Saint Tacky 1614]

11 hours ago, Walser said:

hey everybody whattaya guys up to

I stumbled across this Scottish Backpacking Challenge the other day, and I am seriously contemplating this for May 2025. It's short notice and my knee won't be ready in time to prepare for 2024.  I'd need to talk my kids into it. We did Philmont together, albeit two years apart. I'd like to get them both out on the trail with me at the same time. 

[tomahawk dunk 339]

1 hour ago, Saint Tacky said:

I stumbled across this Scottish Backpacking Challenge the other day, and I am seriously contemplating this for May 2025. It's short notice and my knee won't be ready in time to prepare for 2024.  I'd need to talk my kids into it. We did Philmont together, albeit two years apart. I'd like to get them both out on the trail with me at the same time. 

One of my friends hiked in Scotland this year and she loved it.

You might check out "knees over toes guy" for your knee. He's got lots of free videos out there on YouTube, insta, etc. I've found his stuff to be really good for rehabbing and strengthening my legs.

[locodos 5387]

Scotland is great, make sure you have good great rain gear.  I have a Northface jacket I use for skiing, it's supposed to be their brand of Goretex, but under heavy rain and wind, it wetted out in about 4hrs.  Goretex only, and test it all before you go.

I know this thread is probably just as much about camping as hiking, but for Scotland I'd home base at a BNB and day hike it.  Then have a wee dram by a peat fire after hot shower and a warm meal.  The highlands are isolated enough, if you pick something off the beaten path, first of all there won't be a path, and if there is, you won't run into anyone else...

This was a beautiful day, but the apocalypse is coming up the sound just on the other side of the Ben Hiant

 

The Black Cullins of Skye

 

Best resource I've found for Scotland 

https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/

Edited October 5, 2023 by locodos

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Around this time every year I start planning trips for next year.  PCT long distance permits are released in November and it just gets my hiking brain going.  

Right now, I'm hoping to get out for a weekend backpack at Davis Mountains weekend after next, if it doesn't get too cold.  Anything in the upper 30s or so I can handle, but anything below that gets too cold, especially with the wife and dogs in tow.  For now it's looking like 70s/40s, which would be quite lovely.

Next summer, I'm heading back to the PCT for a section.  Meeting my PCT buddy Stix.  He got all the way to Canada on the PCT after skipping the Sierra, so he's going back this summer to finish it all.  I'm going to meet him at Lake Tahoe and go southbound on the PCT to Yosemite Valley.  Should take around 2 weeks.

Then maybe thinking a Big Bend trip in the fall?

 

Anyone else planning this far ahead?

[Saint Tacky 1614]

5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Right now, I'm hoping to get out for a weekend backpack at Davis Mountains weekend after next, if it doesn't get too cold. 

You may not be able to get onsite, but you never know unless you ask. I recommend the boundary trail at Buffalo Trail Scout Ranch. Call Buffalo Trail Council and see if they'll let you on site. There's no one there right now except a Ranger that lives onsite and won't be until Winter Camp between Xmas and New Year's Eve.

Buffalo Trail

[tomahawk dunk 339]

7 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Around this time every year I start planning trips for next year.  PCT long distance permits are released in November and it just gets my hiking brain going.  

Right now, I'm hoping to get out for a weekend backpack at Davis Mountains weekend after next, if it doesn't get too cold.  Anything in the upper 30s or so I can handle, but anything below that gets too cold, especially with the wife and dogs in tow.  For now it's looking like 70s/40s, which would be quite lovely.

Next summer, I'm heading back to the PCT for a section.  Meeting my PCT buddy Stix.  He got all the way to Canada on the PCT after skipping the Sierra, so he's going back this summer to finish it all.  I'm going to meet him at Lake Tahoe and go southbound on the PCT to Yosemite Valley.  Should take around 2 weeks.

Then maybe thinking a Big Bend trip in the fall?

 

Anyone else planning this far ahead?

Thinking about the Camino Norte and Kungsleden next year. Hopefully I'll be able to make it happen.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

It is the Idaho Wilderness in the Sawtooth Mountains again. It has been spoken, so it shall be written. Let it be so.

 

 

[Saint Tacky 1614]

Epic. Thank you for sharing.

[tomahawk dunk 339]

I've been watching lots of CDT thru hike videos on YouTube lately. Strongly considering giving it a go in 2025.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

3 hours ago, tomahawk dunk said:

I've been watching lots of CDT thru hike videos on YouTube lately. Strongly considering giving it a go in 2025.

Hell yeah brother.  I got my PCT long distance permit for July.  South Lake Tahoe to Mammoth Lakes, sobo.  Wish I could just keep going to Mexico at the end.

[mininghorn88 2293]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:03 AM, JohnnyRage said:

It is the Idaho Wilderness in the Sawtooth Mountains again. It has been spoken, so it shall be written. Let it be so.

 

 

I am hoping to make it up that way and also to Craters of the Moon sometime between now and the end of June.  Just trying to carve out some time to do so.  If not then, I may have to push it to October.

[hookem2010 2624]

Man, I really hope my son is into this stuff when he grows up a little bit more. And to @NotActuallyALonghorn and others who go kid camping, ain't no way I'm convincing my wife to join me, and lugging a finicky toddler into the unfamiliar wilderness overnight without additional hands sounds like a bad time. He loves being outside though and doesn't mind being toted around in a backpack, so there's hope for the future.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Just pulled out my Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide by Andrew Skurka that is pretty much responsible for why I became a backpacker. I bought my edition in 2013 and the tent section that compares double wall vs single wall vs tarps is fascinating. 
 

Back then, the biggest knock against double wall was weight at “3-4 pounds” for a single person tent. In ten years, the tech has gotten so good that my double wall I took on the PCT weighs barely more than than 2 pounds at its heaviest. Half the weight in 10 years. Pretty amazing. And only getting better. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Cuben fiber?

[Biff Tannen 45691]

50 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Cuben fiber?

Nope. Big Agnes Copper Spur HV UL1 is mine. The cuben fiber tarps/tents, which is now called something else entirely and even more lightweight, are like 9 oz.  It’s wild. 
 

I feel the free standing tents (like mine) are light enough now to be the thru hiking standard. Used to be a tarp or single wall was the standard, but the weight combined with ease and versatility of set up lean towards double wall now. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course, and they will. The world of backpacking gear is a fickle beast!

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

I had my pack, tent, bag, and sleeping pad under twelve pounds a few years ago. And then had kid number one before I had a chance to use it. All that stuff is probably outdated now, lol. 

[CleverNickname 1319]

Bagged the South Rim with the kiddos this weekend. Did Boquillas for enchiladas, fresca, and cerveza today. Headed to observatory tonight, and to Balmorhhea tomorrow morning for a chilly baptism before home beckons. 

Window, Saturday evening:

 

[CleverNickname 1319]

I've often wondered what the etiquette about pissing on a hike. Felt weird, but how can you drink 3 or 4 L and not go? But I'm pleased the NPS officially told me to go ahead and water the trees.

[stc 1462]

pinnacles trail? pretty sure i remember seeing that sign the last time i hiked the south rim. 

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Got rained out at Colorado Bend this weekend.  Again.  That's 3 of the last 4 years when I've tried to go in April.  I think I'm just going to have to take off a Friday and come out on a Thursday after work one week.  Friday and Saturday nights are booked up 5 months out.

[The Royal We 3072]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Got rained out at Colorado Bend this weekend.  Again.  That's 3 of the last 4 years when I've tried to go in April.  I think I'm just going to have to take off a Friday and come out on a Thursday after work one week.  Friday and Saturday nights are booked up 5 months out.

Did you check out this place? https://www.sulphurspringscamp.com/

It's just up the road from the state park and I've stayed there 3 or 4 times. It's certainly not fancy, but it's got a lot of area for dispersed car camping. We've kayaked down to the park to see the falls and had someone shuttle us back a few times.

[CleverNickname 1319]

+1 on that kayak trip. not many days the flow is between 200 and 800, but this might be the perfect week for it.

[crash_davis 23113]

Most of you probably already know his channel but if you don't, you may want to invest some time on his videos. Beautiful hikes. His cinematography is second to none. He's not a Youtuber, he's an artist. 

I've never spent any time in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I've spent a good amount of time hiking the Rockies in Colorado and the Wasatch in Utah. I may need to focus attention to Northern CA.

I've never done any thru hikes. His John Muir Trail video is absolutely stunning. I got all kinds of feels at the end of this movie. But his movies have a way of doing that.

 

[immamac 42865]

I fully expected todays bump to have some jokes about looking for the right tent to camp out on campus hahaha

[Biff Tannen 45691]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

Most of you probably already know his channel but if you don't, you may want to invest some time on his videos. Beautiful hikes. His cinematography is second to none. He's not a Youtuber, he's an artist. 

I've never spent any time in the Sierra Nevada mountains. I've spent a good amount of time hiking the Rockies in Colorado and the Wasatch in Utah. I may need to focus attention to Northern CA.

I've never done any thru hikes. His John Muir Trail video is absolutely stunning. I got all kinds of feels at the end of this movie. But his movies have a way of doing that.

 

Added to my list. Thanks!

[davidg 4038]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:32 PM, CleverNickname said:

I've often wondered what the etiquette about pissing on a hike. Felt weird, but how can you drink 3 or 4 L and not go? But I'm pleased the NPS officially told me to go ahead and water the trees.

On the first Philmont trek with my son’s scout troup, the first teaching moment from our ranger was to cram 10 of us into one of the stall’s of a Red Roof Inn composting toilet at the turnaround and explain the no pee in the toilets.  It actually didn’t smell bad at all and the reason was not peeing in the toilet which kills the good bacteria, IIRC.

 And don’t pee on the trees either as rodents can be attracted to the salts and will gnaw on the bark of pissed on trees and shrubs.   Like the proverbial cow, piss on a flat rock.

 

[TexasHooch 5122]

Really sad situation at a place I know well and love a lot.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/05/21/heavy-rain-hampering-rescue-efforts-for-missing-canoeists-in-boundary-waters

Quote

Heavy rainfall is hampering ongoing rescue and recovery efforts for two canoeists who have been missing in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness since Saturday evening, after two canoes carrying four people went over Curtain Falls.

Rescue crews evacuated the two other canoeists, including one who was injured after being swept down the waterfall, which tumbles thirty feet over a long cascade between Crooked and Iron Lakes along the Canadian border.

A fifth party member who was on shore at the time of the incident has also been flown out of the wilderness.

Three rescue workers remain camped at the scene — one with the St. Louis County Rescue Squad, and two Superior National Forest law enforcement officers. But heavy rain that has swollen the already turbulent water below the falls has slowed their efforts.

I was actually in the Boundary Waters last weekend when this happened, but on the other side of it.  I do recall seeing a float plane fly by on Saturday or Sunday, which is always a bad sign up there.  I have traveled through that area though a few times and that's a pretty unforgiving area.  Big water, and the falls themselves are pretty vicious.  The full story is still trickling out, but apparently the two boats were at the top of the falls fishing, I think anchored.  One boat started to drag and the other attempted to save the others.  There's no definitive word whether they were wearing life jackets, but life jackets have been found and two men still have not.

Here it was in the fall of 2020 when I was there last.

That was in the fall.  It's much worse this time of year.

 

Edited May 24 by TexasHooch

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Thanks for posting. Always a good reminder that shit can go wrong out there. 
 

Speaking of going wrong, my hiking partner for my PCT section hike in the Sierra this July had to bail due to family issues. Now I’m trying to figure out if I’m going to try it solo (not really wanting to) or pivot to another week long trip. Maybe a few sections of the Colorado Trail or something. Was going to look at AT in Georgia, but consensus seems to be the heat and humidity would be awful in July. 

[TexasHooch 5122]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Thanks for posting. Always a good reminder that shit can go wrong out there. 
 

And fast.  In fact, the picture I posted itself brings up a good example.  This was the first week of what was supposed to be a four(ish) week trip along the border.  It was cut short after one of the guys (the one taking the picture here) broke his ankle badly in week two.  We had to get him out in what was a very long day.  Ultimately we opted to finish the trip the following year instead of continuing without him.

[Saint Tacky 1614]

19 hours ago, TexasHooch said:

Really sad situation at a place I know well and love a lot.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2024/05/21/heavy-rain-hampering-rescue-efforts-for-missing-canoeists-in-boundary-waters

I was actually in the Boundary Waters last weekend when this happened, but on the other side of it.  I do recall seeing a float plane fly by on Saturday or Sunday, which is always a bad sign up there.  I have traveled through that area though a few times and that's a pretty unforgiving area.  Big water, and the falls themselves are pretty vicious.  The full story is still trickling out, but apparently the two boats were at the top of the falls fishing, I think anchored.  One boat started to drag and the other attempted to save the others.  There's no definitive word whether they were wearing life jackets, but life jackets have been found and two men still have not.

Here it was in the fall of 2020 when I was there last.

That was in the fall.  It's much worse this time of year.

 

Just another reason that we prefer the frozen boundary waters!

[TexasHooch 5122]

1 hour ago, Saint Tacky said:

Just another reason that we prefer the frozen boundary waters!

I like winter camping in the BWCA too, and I've enjoyed your posts about it- but this is kind of a weird comment.  Winter travel in the BWCA is far more inherently dangerous than other seasons. That's a huge reason why so few people dare to do it.  Furthermore, the vast majority of those who do winter camp up there are either super experienced and well equipped, or opt to use local guides, as you have clearly (and smartly) done.

Between 150k and 200k people visit the BWCA every year between May and Sep.  Deaths are very rare.  That's why it's particularly tragic and notable when it happens. Bugs, crowds, and heat are all legitimate reasons to prefer late fall and winter over the spring and summer.  The relative risk of injury or death (even by drowning) is not.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Ok, think I finally settled on my PCT section hike for this year.  My hiking buddy had to bail, so I'm cutting it down from 2 weeks to 1, as I don't want to go solo for that long.  

Going to hopefully do a 2 day trail skills workshop starting July 13 (I'm waitlisted right now) in Truckee to start (intro to trail maintenance, basic stuff) and then hike south from Truckee, down the west side of Lake Tahoe on the PCT to Echo Lake, about 65 miles.  If I have time at the end, I can tack on some more miles on the Tahoe Rim Trail.

Not as long as I wanted to go, but now I will also be home for my wife's bday and then our friend's 40th in Isla Mujeres.  So not a bad trade off.

Edited June 8 by Biff Tannen

[Biff Tannen 45691]

This seems like the right place to bitch about this.

Just saw a "news" story about a hiker that was rescued in California after getting lost and surviving for several days.  The "news" channel decided to interview the winner of one of the seasons of "Alone" (whatever that is) to tell people how to survive in the wilderness.  

Not once did he mention having a GPS device like a Garmin InReach or SPOT.  Not once did he mention bringing paper maps and a compass and knowing how to use them. He mentioned bringing tablets for water purification, "but those only last a couple of days".  Yeah, moron, that's why you bring a 3 oz water filter like a Sawyer Squeeze and you can filter all the water you need.

When society turns to reality TV stars to tell them how to survive in the wilderness, I think we deserve to die in the woods.

Rant over.

[pantone159 719]

On 10/14/2019 at 7:00 PM, Carl Spackler said:

My big regret from my trip to Lassen several years ago is that the trail down to Bumpass Hell was closed at the time.  Some day I will return.

There is an alternate back way to Bumpass Hell that is open even when the main trail is closed. Park at Kings Creek Picnic Area, and first hike 1 mile (easy) to Cold Boiling Lake. Then on the other side of the lake, head left and uphill for 2 miles (not as easy) to the back side of Bumpass Hell and the boardwalk. I was just at Lassen NP a week and a half ago, and the main trail to Bumpass was indeed closed, but this back way was open, okay by the rangers, and fine. There were a couple of snow patches but the trail was fine. This way is presumably harder than the normal trail, but is nothing crazy.

 

Edited July 13 by pantone159

[hookem2010 2624]

I went to Lassen in June a few years ago. Didn't get to see any of the geothermal features, but it was still a fantastic, uncrowded trip. Highly recommend.

[Biff Tannen 45691]

Did 65 miles on the PCT from I-80 (Donner Pass) to Echo Lake this week. I’m pretty wiped, but here’s a couple of pics. I’ll post more when I get home and decompose. Or decompress. 
 

[mininghorn88 2293]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Did 65 miles on the PCT from I-80 (Donner Pass) to Echo Lake this week. I’m pretty wiped, but here’s a couple of pics. I’ll post more when I get home and decompose. Or decompress. 
 

 

Looks absolutely amazing. Would like to know more about the experience.

[Butch Had Not 2982]

Little hike in flagstaff. 

[stc 1462]

did some backpacking in southern colorado last week, south san juan wilderness. got a shitload of rain but it was overnight every time. beetle kill is a bummer. 

 

 

Edited August 19 by stc
...

[stc 1462]

pics...

[Biff Tannen 45691]

12 minutes ago, stc said:

pics...

Fuck yeah.  Amazing.  Where exactly?  I have my sights on the Chicago Basin in the next couple of years.