Surly official camping and backpacking thread

[davidg 4032]

Trail runners.

This x1000. Don't buy into needing big heavy boots to go hiking or backpacking. I did 2 Philmont treks wearing NB Leadville 1210 tail runners and Dirty Girl gaiters carrying a 25 to 35lb pack. The Rangers didn't like that I didn't have 6" goretex lined boots and didn't carry extra 'camp shoes' but in the end I was one of the only ones that didn't have foot blisters during the trek.

Get a good set of insoles too. I like the Superfeet green.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I also use Superfeet. Green or the hiking specific Trailblazer one. I do get blisters if I carry a lot of weight sometimes. Injinji sock liners under your regular wool socks has completely solved the problem for me so far.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

I've heard of people hiking the length of some of the long trails wearing crocs. So just wear whatever is comfortable on the terrain for you.

[Biff Tannen 45512]

NON-WATERPROOF.  Gore-Tex no bueno.  Just holds the water in.  NO WATERPROOF and breathable.  Did I say don't get waterproof?

[Upgrayedd 5806]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

NON-WATERPROOF.  Gore-Tex no bueno.  Just holds the water in.  NO WATERPROOF and breathable.  Did I say don't get waterproof?

And merino wool socks

[Chewbacca 7730]

NON-WATERPROOF.  Gore-Tex no bueno.  Just holds the water in.  NO WATERPROOF and breathable.  Did I say don't get waterproof?

Uh, gore- tex allows fabric to breathe. That is what it does.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Uh, gore- tex allows fabric to breathe. That is what it does.

 

Compared to having a non-breathable membrane, sure; but it’s not even close to being the same as not having it. The problem is if you have a water crossing and get water in your shoes, it ain’t gonna drain.

 

There are still situations where waterproof boots are good (I wear my Salomon hybrid waterproof boots often), but that’s not always the case.

[Your Mom 4799]

Yep.  I’ve been wearing Solomon Gore Tex Ultras for a couple years now. I have the mid tops and the low tops.  I love them both for different types of hikes. Been on multi-day backpacking trips in them, been on hundreds of day hikes in them, sloshed around on rainy days in them.  Never had a single blister, never had any issues with wet feet.   The Gore Tex is permeable enough to let water vapor through but not actual water droplets. If you fill the shoe with water from over the top then that water will stay inside the shoe. But sweat vapor breathes right out.    Now whether that would be true if they put a layer of leather outside the Gore-Tex like some manufacturers do , I’m not sure. But the synthetic outer material Gore-Tex boots are outstanding for me. 

 Trail runners have their place on short hikes, but I notice the difference in under-foot support. Just today I walked 6 miles in running shoes and the bottoms of my feet were tender at the end. I could go twice as long in my Solomon Ultras and not feel a thing.  I do it all the time. I’m hiking 5-6 days a week right now. Sometimes as short is 3 miles, sometimes as much is 10.    When it comes to gear I’m not really an ultra lighter but I am a minimalist. I pack as little as possible . And I wanted trail runners to work for me so badly, but they just don’t give me the support in the footbed.    I’m going to Philmont this summer and I’m sure I could get away with trail runners but I know my feet would be much more comfortable in my Ultras.   I’ll probably take the low tops though.  I’m not sure if I can still call it a boot since it’s a low top but it’s definitely much sturdier than any trail runner I’ve ever owned. 

 And I don’t mean this post to be an argument against trail runnerrs. They work for some people and that makes me jealous.  I bet the majority of thru hikers on the AT are in trail runners these days. But my feet just need something more apparently. 

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Some are of course stiffer than others. I have two pairs of Salomon XA Pro 3D which are pretty rigged and have a pretty big toe cap as well. The Superfeet inserts also add rigidity.

I know the Salomon XA Pro 3D and Altra Lone Peak are both very common for thru hikes.

These are always fun to read:

https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/continental-divide-trail/cdt-gear-guide-2018/

[Biff Tannen 45512]

8 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Yep.  I’ve been wearing Solomon Gore Tex Ultras for a couple years now. I have the mid tops and the low tops.  I love them both for different types of hikes. Been on multi-day backpacking trips in them, been on hundreds of day hikes in them, sloshed around on rainy days in them.  Never had a single blister, never had any issues with wet feet.   The Gore Tex is permeable enough to let water vapor through but not actual water droplets. If you fill the shoe with water from over the top then that water will stay inside the shoe. But sweat vapor breathes right out.    Now whether that would be true if they put a layer of leather outside the Gore-Tex like some manufacturers do , I’m not sure. But the synthetic outer material Gore-Tex boots are outstanding for me. 

 Trail runners have their place on short hikes, but I notice the difference in under-foot support. Just today I walked 6 miles in running shoes and the bottoms of my feet were tender at the end. I could go twice as long in my Solomon Ultras and not feel a thing.  I do it all the time. I’m hiking 5-6 days a week right now. Sometimes as short is 3 miles, sometimes as much is 10.    When it comes to gear I’m not really an ultra lighter but I am a minimalist. I pack as little as possible . And I wanted trail runners to work for me so badly, but they just don’t give me the support in the footbed.    I’m going to Philmont this summer and I’m sure I could get away with trail runners but I know my feet would be much more comfortable in my Ultras.   I’ll probably take the low tops though.  I’m not sure if I can still call it a boot since it’s a low top but it’s definitely much sturdier than any trail runner I’ve ever owned. 

 And I don’t mean this post to be an argument against trail runnerrs. They work for some people and that makes me jealous.  I bet the majority of thru hikers on the AT are in trail runners these days. But my feet just need something more apparently. 

Of course the main point is figure out what works for you and go for it.  Hike your own hike.  

[Slacks 6792]

This thread is right on time. My son is probably going to go that big Boy Scout hike in 2020... I forget what its called... (holy hell, how?) But I need to look at shoes for him. Of course he's going to outgrow whatever right now, but I wanna test some shoes.

He just came back from camping at Colorado Bend SP this weekend. I fn had to work, so I missed it. He said there was ice on everything in the morning, which is awesome... And the skies were clear at night for star and moon gazing which is also awesome. I'm going to try to get out there this spring.

[tokamak 6353]

2 hours ago, Snacks said:

This thread is right on time. My son is probably going to go that big Boy Scout hike in 2020... I forget what its called... (holy hell, how?) But I need to look at shoes for him. Of course he's going to outgrow whatever right now, but I wanna test some shoes.

He just came back from camping at Colorado Bend SP this weekend. I fn had to work, so I missed it. He said there was ice on everything in the morning, which is awesome... And the skies were clear at night for star and moon gazing which is also awesome. I'm going to try to get out there this spring.

Philmont.

 

I ended up just going to REI and trying a bunch of stuff on. Ended up with Salomon X Ultra low-tops. Broke them in with about 7.5 miles today at Brazos Bend SP. Awesome day, perfect weather. I'm definitely hooked now.

[Slacks 6792]

2 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Philmont.

 

I ended up just going to REI and trying a bunch of stuff on. Ended up with Salomon X Ultra low-tops. Broke them in with about 7.5 miles today at Brazos Bend SP. Awesome day, perfect weather. I'm definitely hooked now.

Thanks. My brain ain't right. Philmont. 

I'm gonna see if I can get in on it. Sounds interesting... 10k feet. I'll probably pass tf out. 

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Philmont.
 
I ended up just going to REI and trying a bunch of stuff on. Ended up with Salomon X Ultra low-tops. Broke them in with about 7.5 miles today at Brazos Bend SP. Awesome day, perfect weather. I'm definitely hooked now.

I have these in mids. I like them.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

Merrell Moabs are one of the most popular hiking shoes for a good reason. That's what I roll with in the low version.

[Biff Tannen 45512]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Merrell Moabs are one of the most popular hiking shoes for a good reason. That's what I roll with in the low version.

I had these for several years and they were great.  I switched to La Sportiva and have never looked back, but love the Moabs for sure.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I still have a pair somewhere. I used them to hike the Narrows in Zion.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

14 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I had these for several years and they were great.  I switched to La Sportiva and have never looked back, but love the Moabs for sure.

How do the La Sportivas fit compared to the Moabs? Is the toe box a similar width?

[Biff Tannen 45512]

19 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

How do the La Sportivas fit compared to the Moabs? Is the toe box a similar width?

The toe box seems similar to me.  I have pretty narrow feet.  I love the Moabs, but the La Sportivas breathe better and dry out faster.  I have the Ultra Raptors, but my wife loves her Bushidos and as I'm sure you know there are several other options as well.

[Bone3421 716]

Ill just be over here in my Danners minding my own business....did have moabs before and liked them...i usually go high for ankle support

[UnivTex34 1763]

Anyone eve hiked to Baldy Peak on Mt. Livermore at the Nature Conservancy in the Davis Mountains? Wife and I are considering a trip in March at one of their open days.

[Digdogger 1343]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:13 PM, UnivTex34 said:

Anyone eve hiked to Baldy Peak on Mt. Livermore at the Nature Conservancy in the Davis Mountains? Wife and I are considering a trip in March at one of their open days.

Yeah its very nice.  The first half is kind of dusty double track.  You get to a point where the trail splits and you have two options, continue on the double track or I think its called Limpia Chute, or something.  Take Limpia Chute, both up and down.  The double track section there is super loose, fist sized rocks, its no fun.  Limpia Chute is mostly treed  and some good views.  The last bit to the summit is a scramble up head sized rocks, but not too bad.  Its not too terribly hard of a hike, I think around 3 miles each way.  My kids were 5, 7, and 9 and were fine.

They say you need a high clearance vehicle to reach the trailhead, and its probably a good idea, there's some creeks and rutted parts.  The visitors center is nice with flush toilets and maybe showers, I don't remember exactly.  I think they require you to camp close to the visitor's center in a field, but we stayed at the State Park and drove in for the day.  

[UnivTex34 1763]

1 minute ago, Digdogger said:

Yeah its very nice.  The first half is kind of dusty double track.  You get to a point where the trail splits and you have two options, continue on the double track or I think its called Limpia Chute, or something.  Take Limpia Chute, both up and down.  The double track section there is super loose, fist sized rocks, its no fun.  Limpia Chute is mostly treed  and some good views.  The last bit to the summit is a scramble up head sized rocks, but not too bad.  Its not too terribly hard of a hike, I think around 3 miles each way.  My kids were 5, 7, and 9 and were fine.

They say you need a high clearance vehicle to reach the trailhead, and its probably a good idea, there's some creeks and rutted parts.  The visitors center is nice with flush toilets and maybe showers, I don't remember exactly.  I think they require you to camp close to the visitor's center in a field, but we stayed at the State Park and drove in for the day.  

I've got the HC 4X4, so not worried there. Good to hear the little ones did it. Wife isn't a huge hiker, and the reports of this hike are all over the map for level of difficulty.

[Digdogger 1343]

My wife and in-laws did it too.  Some kind of steep in a few, short parts, but if you avoid going to the right at the fork, its not too bad

[UnivTex34 1763]

32 minutes ago, Digdogger said:

Yeah its very nice.  The first half is kind of dusty double track.  You get to a point where the trail splits and you have two options, continue on the double track or I think its called Limpia Chute, or something.  Take Limpia Chute, both up and down.  The double track section there is super loose, fist sized rocks, its no fun.  Limpia Chute is mostly treed  and some good views.  The last bit to the summit is a scramble up head sized rocks, but not too bad.  Its not too terribly hard of a hike, I think around 3 miles each way.  My kids were 5, 7, and 9 and were fine.

They say you need a high clearance vehicle to reach the trailhead, and its probably a good idea, there's some creeks and rutted parts.  The visitors center is nice with flush toilets and maybe showers, I don't remember exactly.  I think they require you to camp close to the visitor's center in a field, but we stayed at the State Park and drove in for the day.  

Fantastic info man, just found this, and gave a lot of clarity:

 

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7019658/limpia-chute-trail

[Biff Tannen 45512]

8 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Fantastic info man, just found this, and gave a lot of clarity:

 

https://www.hikingproject.com/trail/7019658/limpia-chute-trail

Hiking project seems to be a really good tool.  They had one specifically for National Parks at one point, but I think they shuttered it to focus on this.  I use it sometimes to find trails I haven't hiked in Central Texas, though there aren't many left.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Hiking project seems to be a really good tool.  They had one specifically for National Parks at one point, but I think they shuttered it to focus on this.  I use it sometimes to find trails I haven't hiked in Central Texas, though there aren't many left.

The National Parks stuff is now in the REI National Parks app. It’s really good.

https://www.hikingproject.com/nationalparks

[Biff Tannen 45512]

1 minute ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

The National Parks stuff is now in the REI National Parks app. It’s really good.

https://www.hikingproject.com/nationalparks

 

 

Derp.  I actually have that on my phone.  I'm an idiot.  Thanks.

[UnivTex34 1763]

15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Hiking project seems to be a really good tool.  They had one specifically for National Parks at one point, but I think they shuttered it to focus on this.  I use it sometimes to find trails I haven't hiked in Central Texas, though there aren't many left.

 

4 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

The National Parks stuff is now in the REI National Parks app. It’s really good.

https://www.hikingproject.com/nationalparks

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Derp.  I actually have that on my phone.  I'm an idiot.  Thanks.

Yeah, I had never used it before, but defiantely have the REI app on my phone.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

On 1/22/2019 at 7:03 AM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Merrell Moabs are one of the most popular hiking shoes for a good reason. That's what I roll with in the low version.

Probably my favorite were the merrell chameleon, but Moabs can be found cheap is you're patient.   I only wear them on >4 or 5 mile walks though.  

I had the Salomon xa something or other,  I forget.   First pair I loved,  2nd pair fell apart.   

[BillyBadAss 189]

So, we had been planning a R2R Grand Canyon trip for May. Applied for permits the first day we could,  but just heard back that we didn't get them. 

Our original plan was for 4 days in the canyon, self-supported. So now we're scrambling for an alternative and looking for ideas.

We're prepared to fly to wherever, and rent a car to get to a trailhead. We'll need to do a loop or have a way to get back where we started. I don't think we have a huge preference for the type of terrain, etc. Just something that we can do in about 4 days which would be cool. 

Ideas? 

[Biff Tannen 45512]

Man that sucks.  May is tough because a lot of the trails up north will probably still have snow.  My initial thought would be Wonderland trail around Mt Rainier or Timberline Trail around Mt Hood, but those both depend on snow and Wonderland is prob too long for a 4 day loop.  Maybe Hoh River Trail in Olympic?

Edited February 4, 2019 by Biff Tannen

[pantone159 719]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:13 PM, UnivTex34 said:

Anyone eve hiked to Baldy Peak on Mt. Livermore at the Nature Conservancy in the Davis Mountains? Wife and I are considering a trip in March at one of their open days.

Yep, one of the 8000 ft peaks in Texas, and a county highpoint. I got to the trailhead in my Honda Civic sedan, but I would not make that drive again with that vehicle. The trail-like part of the upper section is a lot nicer than the road-like part, as others noted. I have seen this trail rated as Class 3 meaning some actual climbing involved, but the Class 3 part was literally one move, about 4 feet of climbing, and totally unexposed. There can be a lot of ladybugs.

 

[DougO 5239]

OK, I'm not so much into the topic, but maybe this is a place I can get recommendations for some good waterproof shoes/boots, like the hiking variety. I'm thinking something like a 3/4 top, something that's not too hard to get off and on in a hurry. I need something for working outside on the fences and stuff when it's a bit wet, moving/feeding cows when it's getting muddy, birding in semi-marshy areas.

I have tried a lot of the affordable-ish stuff at Academy and they all seem like they suck, zero arch support, seem like they would be terrible to walk in for very long. Light weight would be nice, and not so pricey that it will keep me from buying them. I'm not going to Alaska or anything, just something to use now and then when necessary. I wear nothing but running/training shoes because I have high arches and I can feel it in my feet and knees when I wear shitty shoes.

I wear Asics Venture trail running shoes most of the time, but they are all that mesh stuff that is not good for wet and cold.

Edited February 5, 2019 by DougO

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I think something like the Merrell Moab mid in a waterproof version would be great for that. I would also recommend something like the Salomon X Ultra Mid (what I have), but they are pricier.

I think REI is having their winter clearance sale this coming week, though. That’s something to pay attention to.

Regardless, with a high arch I would recommend Superfeet insoles. I wear the green and they make any shoe much more comfortable for me (I have somewhat high arches).

[BillyBadAss 189]

@DougO - I had a related experience recently. I had a pair of Wolverine pull-on boots like Academy sells I used for hunting in a muddy/marshy area that were starting to fall apart. So the last time out I worse some waterproof hiking mid boots. The boots did just fine, however, they were a much bigger PITA to clean afterwards than the Wolverines were. The wolverines were fairly smooth, more like a wellington, and easy to hose off. The hiking boots had various textures, seams, and crevices where the mud would cake in that was a pain to get out. So something to consider when looking. Moabs are great boots and comfy out of the box, but would similarly be a pain to clean, if you care about that. 

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

So, we had been planning a R2R Grand Canyon trip for May. Applied for permits the first day we could,  but just heard back that we didn't get them. 
Our original plan was for 4 days in the canyon, self-supported. So now we're scrambling for an alternative and looking for ideas.
We're prepared to fly to wherever, and rent a car to get to a trailhead. We'll need to do a loop or have a way to get back where we started. I don't think we have a huge preference for the type of terrain, etc. Just something that we can do in about 4 days which would be cool. 
Ideas? 

Zion has some killer stuff. Not 4 day R2R but the narrows and angels landing are both epic day hikes with central lodging options.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

A top down trip of the narrows would be tits.

[Bone3421 716]

So, we had been planning a R2R Grand Canyon trip for May. Applied for permits the first day we could,  but just heard back that we didn't get them. 
Our original plan was for 4 days in the canyon, self-supported. So now we're scrambling for an alternative and looking for ideas.
We're prepared to fly to wherever, and rent a car to get to a trailhead. We'll need to do a loop or have a way to get back where we started. I don't think we have a huge preference for the type of terrain, etc. Just something that we can do in about 4 days which would be cool. 
Ideas? 

How many miles can group do a day? Sky rim loop in yellowstone is 21 miles

Teton crest trail is 37 miles...park car at end of trail and can ride tram to start

[Bone3421 716]

But may probably will be to early like stated above...

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

I was going to recommend the Trans-Zion trek, or a modified version of it to meet your needs, but the backcountry permits won’t open up for it until March 5th at 10AM MST. You could just be on the permit site ready to go when they are released. The problem is, you have to get each site as an individual reservation (if you don’t want to have to count on walkup availability), so you’d have to do the process a few times.

 

[Biff Tannen 45512]

Good call on Zion.  You could do multiple parks in Utah if you're not dead set on one continuous backpacking trip.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Speaking of Zion, just got myself a permit for the Subway in April. Been to Zion 5 times, but never there.

[DougO 5239]

14 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I think something like the Merrell Moab mid in a waterproof version would be great for that. I would also recommend something like the Salomon X Ultra Mid (what I have), but they are pricier.

I think REI is having their winter clearance sale this coming week, though. That’s something to pay attention to.

Regardless, with a high arch I would recommend Superfeet insoles. I wear the green and they make any shoe much more comfortable for me (I have somewhat high arches).

Feedback much appreciated.

I wear a size 13 in Asics, but always wore 12 in most everything else, like New Balance. How do the sizes run in these?

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

They fit about like New Balances to me.

[Anton Chigurh 3319]

Feedback much appreciated.
I wear a size 13 in Asics, but always wore 12 in most everything else, like New Balance. How do the sizes run in these?

I’m a 12 99% across the board and I wear a 12 in both of them. The Moab I have are the low, non-waterproof ones though.

[DougO 5239]

I tried on some Merrell's at Academy today. Size 12 was a bit too snug to the tip of my toes for my liking and it's the biggest size they had. They felt like pretty comfortable shoes otherwise. I would have to go at least 12 1/2, but I hate to take a chance ordering without trying some on.

Tried  a bunch of other shoe. Columbia size 12 was about right. The Newton Ridge mid boot didn't feel too bad, pretty nice boot, if only it had just a little more arch.

[LebongJames 1787]

If in Austin go to Whole Earth

[DougO 5239]

Probably nobody cares, but in case there are other poors out there looking for something cheaper, Columbia is having a pretty nice sale on some of their stuff. I ordered a pair of these just for starters to have something cheapish to play around with and get my feet wet, hopefully without getting my feet wet. I must have ordered the last pair of size 12 in these.

https://www.columbia.com/mens-newton-ridge-plus-ii-suede-waterproof-boot-1746411.html?Quantity=1&source=cart&dwvar_1746411_variationColor=213&uuid=e7008129a6ec9ddbf9d1ad3f66&dwvar_1746411_variationSize=12

I found the deal on slickdeals or one of those things. If you sign up for their rewards deal for free you get another 20% off on top of the sale price. They have some nice jackets and stuff on sale, too.

Edited February 10, 2019 by DougO

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

Speaking of deal sites, I ran across one a couple months ago that you sign up for, and then buy stuff from the sites affiliate links to the major outdoor retailers like backcountry, moosejaw, etc. They then return a portion of the money they get from the affiliate links back to you. I tried looking for it again a few weeks back, but can't seem to find it. Anybody here know of what I speak about?