Surly official camping and backpacking thread

[JohnnyRage 1617]

3 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Why not a diesel Dodge Ram Promaster?

 

I became a little fascinated with YouTube van life videos starting out with traveling rock climbers. They were sleeping perpendicular and it seemed such an efficient choice of space. Then at a gas station I spotted probably some Ford or Mercedes and practically laid on the dirty petroleum ground and thought, “No fucking way…Oh! Rock climbers are tiny.”

[Chewbacca 7730]

1 minute ago, JohnnyRage said:

Why not a diesel Dodge Ram Promaster?

 

I became a little fascinated with YouTube van life videos starting out with traveling rock climbers. They were sleeping perpendicular and it seemed such an efficient choice of space. Then at a gas station I spotted probably some Ford or Mercedes and practically laid on the dirty petroleum ground and thought, “No fucking way…Oh! Rock climbers are tiny.”

Because the Promaster is really a Fiat Ducato and I'm not buying a fucking Fiat.  Also, the Promaster does not come in AWD or 4WD.  I'm not offroading this thing but I will drive in lots of snow, so I got AWD.  And Sprinters, while being more expensive on the front end, have far better resale and seem to hold up better long term.  I plan on keeping it for a long time.  Since I'm 6'2", I'll have to sleep north/south, but that's fine.  I got the 170 so I've got plenty of room.

[davidg 4032]

We have 8 tents in the family that get used in a regular rotation according to the type of camping we are doing. None of them are canvas.

I have camped in canvas tents like posted above at 4 or 5 summer camps with the scouts. Hot, musty and not good at keeping out mosquitos. Would only buy one if setting up long term elk camp in the mountains. In Texas, nope, no way.

[Firemans4Horn 17850]

4 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

nd now I'm building a Sprinter van.

 

3 hours ago, stc said:

bought a 93 GMC Vandura conversion van during the pandemic and turned it into a camper. it has been extremely awesome for both convenience and quality of sleep. 

Y’all should start a thread or post your stories in here. Would love to follow the progress and learn the do’s and dont’s. 

[Chewbacca 7730]

1 minute ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

Y’all should start a thread or post your stories in here. Would love to follow the progress and learn the do’s and dont’s. 

I bought a 2023 Sprinter 170 high roof AWD.  I'm using a van builder because I lack the skills to do it myself and I need it done by summer.  Using a company called Vansmith in Boulder and doing a semi-custom build.  Hopefully dropping the van off here in the next week or two so they can get going.  I've already finalized the layout and paid my deposit.  I haven't spent a night in it yet, so I can't give you do's and don'ts, but we did research a ton of builders and we liked Vansmith's layout and materials best.  Van will be used to explore all over North America with the wife.  We've already got a trip planned in June/July to visit friends in Minnesota.

 

Van will be based on the Outpost that Vansmith does, but I'm adding a second bed (removable) in the garage area and a jump seat (also removable) between the 2 front seats so we will be able to sleep and seat 3 when needed.  Adding a few other items (awning, electrical outlets, more upper cabinets, etc) as well.  It's going to be bad ass.  Diesel heater, refrigerator, outdoor shower, cassette toilet, 200AH Lithium battery with a 3000W inverter.  180W of solar on the roof.  110V outlets so I can use my CPAP.

 

https://thevansmith.com/pages/the-outpost-sprinter-170-conversion

 

[Your Mom 4798]

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

First thing you have to realize is that when it comes to camping, you will be doing 100% of the setup and take down….  I cannot wait to roll into a campsite and all I have to do is get the van level and grab a couple camp chairs out of the back.

 

5 hours ago, stc said:

bought a 93 GMC Vandura conversion van during the pandemic and turned it into a camper. it has been extremely awesome for both convenience and quality of sleep. 

My next vehicle is going to be a long bed truck with a camper shell with a single bed, expandable to a double, permanently set up in the back. Screened windoors, a couple usb fans, the 12v fridge, and room for my bike.  A wake up and drive off set up still small enough to be a daily driver.  

[TwiceHorn 31312]

7 hours ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

I’m trying to understand, not to win some internet argument, so please try not to jump to the “well you’ve got your mind made up so you do you” response bc my mind is definitely not made up .

This tent is like a 5min one person setup and is freestanding. It’s is 80lbs I believe split between 2 bags for poles and body.

Is it really a pain in the ass because of setup and weight? It seems durable and has lots of windows for allowing breezes through.

The reviews I’ve seen on poly tents have sketchy stitching, aren’t that water proof, get muggy inside etc. the main benefit I’ve seen (excluding backpacking style camping tents) is they are cheaper which isn’t my primary thing.

Are these canvas tents really like a wet towel when it rains?

That one would be the best choice because it's a poly/nylon tent made of canvas.

Still, I think it would be significantly harder to set up because of the weight of the canvas and also harder to fold, alone.  And like 5x heavier.  80 lbs is insane for a tent.

A quality synthetic tent will have all the same features, maybe not exactly the same durability, but you can buy two, maybe three for the cost of the canvas tent.  And it will be easier to set up, pack, and store.  And easier to deal with when it rains and everyone wants to go home.

A poly/nylon tent with a breathable roof and a fly will be more breathable than any canvas tent.

That said, given what you've said about your family, a camper is probably a better option.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

16 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

now I'm building a Sprinter van.

Um. I see zero pics. Wtf man?

Edited March 3, 2023 by Biff Tannen
Oh there they are. I usually read to the end of the thread, but I was impatient with this revelation

[Chewbacca 7730]

Um. I see zero pics. Wtf man?

See the link I posted above. Mine isn't built yet, but that's what it will look like, just different colors.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

The minimal I’ve thought about this would involve keyless doors with an emergency release somewhere hidden, and a kill switch that must be on to start.

Shatterproof glass, I imagine, would be heavy, expensive, and dangerous in emergencies. The smash and grabs in the Pacific Northwest have scarred me, and weigh heavy if I would be leaving a camper somewhere overnight to wilderness hike.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

wat

[CleverNickname 1296]

I'm in love with the idea of a conversion van when I early-ish retire. I'm just worried about the cost and depreciation. Buy it for $X, use the hell out of it. Sell for $Y. But would $X-Y have paid for the same amount of perfectly fine hotels, with maybe occasional tent camping out of a standard SUV or pickup with topper? I guess you can't really substitute hotels for true off grid BLM boondock camping. Seems like $50k gets you 200 to 250 nights of hotel. 

[Biff Tannen 45509]

54 minutes ago, CleverNickname said:

I'm in love with the idea of a conversion van when I early-ish retire. I'm just worried about the cost and depreciation. Buy it for $X, use the hell out of it. Sell for $Y. But would $X-Y have paid for the same amount of perfectly fine hotels, with maybe occasional tent camping out of a standard SUV or pickup with topper? I guess you can't really substitute hotels for true off grid BLM boondock camping. Seems like $50k gets you 200 to 250 nights of hotel. 

I don’t think anyone is doing it because it’s an investment. 

[Chewbacca 7730]

I'm in love with the idea of a conversion van when I early-ish retire. I'm just worried about the cost and depreciation. Buy it for $X, use the hell out of it. Sell for $Y. But would $X-Y have paid for the same amount of perfectly fine hotels, with maybe occasional tent camping out of a standard SUV or pickup with topper? I guess you can't really substitute hotels for true off grid BLM boondock camping. Seems like $50k gets you 200 to 250 nights of hotel. 

Yeah, financially it's a loser, for sure. But fuck it, you only live once.

I also need a place to stay while my mountain house is being remodeled. Renting a house up here would cost 5k per month on the low end. So I'm factoring that in, too.

[Your Mom 4798]

7 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

But would $X-Y have paid for the same amount of perfectly fine hotels, with maybe occasional tent camping out of a standard SUV or pickup with topper? I guess you can't really substitute hotels for true off grid BLM boondock camping. Seems like $50k gets you 200 to 250 nights of hotel. 

Yeah but you didn’t click on the Surly Official Hotel Thread.

The sense of adventure and freedom is part of it. The personal satisfaction from roughing it is real. Not to mention how nice it can be to separate yourself from television and internet for a while.   

[Hawndoh 2382]

For spring break we are trying out Palo Duro Canyon for the first time.

[Kennythetiger 9342]

2 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

For spring break we are trying out Palo Duro Canyon for the first time.

@Nicole44 may have some recs for you. 

[Nicole44 22028]

3 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

For spring break we are trying out Palo Duro Canyon for the first time.

I’ve seen the play Texas a couple of times (it’s not what it once was…mainly for kids kinda now…needs to be revamped.) Tyler’s BBQ is pretty good (it was featured in Texas Monthly a couple of times.) everyone always gets their pictures taken in front of the buried Cadillacs on I40 near Amarillo. The Goodnight museum is pretty neat in Claude (also recommend seeing the Goodnight house nearby)—basis for Lonesome Dove. The Big Texan is touristy but kinda fun if you have kiddos. That’s honestly about it unless you find yourself much in Amarillo or Claude. One of the best places to eat in Amarillo is still OHMS downtown. None of what I typed just now seems very inspiring. I’d just hike around the canyon I guess and look for pieces of flint and watch out for sneks! 

[davidg 4032]

We spend the night couple of times at the Kwahadi Museum of the American Indian on our way to Philmont. Lots of artifacts in the museum and if they have a dance performance scheduled it is pretty good.

[Hawndoh 2382]

We are unlikely going to leave the state park. Several hikes planned, cooking some good food, etc.

[CleverNickname 1296]

If the weather cooperates, and my kids are game (13 and 10) are game, we will try and make it to Guadalupe Peak over Spring Break.

[MalibuSheriff 1088]

Fantastic Spring Break with my kids in 2016.  Both were in elementary school at the time and summited Guadalupe Peak like champs.  Mom and Dad were ass whipped tired but kids are troopers.  Highly recommend it!
 

On the trail down from the summit:

[Bevo&Pevo 5038]

CASA CONVERSIONS ™ AUSTIN, TX ADVENTURE VANS

 

[stc 1452]

My van isn't fancy, just the necessities. Have a full size bed, sink connected to a 5 gallon water container, and a 100 watt solar panel that runs a Dometic refrigerator and a roof fan. Plenty of storage under the bed for everything else needed. I couldn't live in it comfortably but it's great for a week or two at a time for 2 people and 2 large dogs.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

Big Tom Petty fan I see.

 

 

 

That's awesome man.

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

Any advice on inverters? I'm looking for a 1500w or 2000w pure sine wave inverter to run a 700w microwave or pressure cooker off my Tacoma. Everything I'm seeing online has mixed to bad reviews. Has anyone had success with this setup? Thanks in advance

[Native Horn 3493]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:04 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I camped in Scouts in canvas tents like these:

As canvas tents go, they're light at about 40 lbs not including the three huge wooden poles and relatively easy to set up.

They fucking suck compared to even a 20-year old backpacking type tent.  Complete assbeating to set up and take down and 50x worse if they're wet.  And then, if you get home, you have to hang that 80 lb wet motherfucker up somewhere to dry.

Whatever space advantages they may have (few to none), are way offset by the pain in the ass in handling them, for the reasons mentioned.  We had to use 1/2" bent rebar stakes to get in Texas soil and damn near drive them with a sledge.

Do. Not. Do. It.

With the exception of the modern guyless tent you showed, all of those are for expeditions with paid sherpas to set them up and take them down.

Man, I can still smell the stench of a BSA Baker tent, 40 years later.  Canvas sucks.

[CleverNickname 1296]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:21 PM, MalibuSheriff said:

Fantastic Spring Break with my kids in 2016.  Both were in elementary school at the time and summited Guadalupe Peak like champs.  Mom and Dad were ass whipped tired but kids are troopers.  Highly recommend it!
 

Knocked it out today! Woke up 5:30am and made it to the trailhead by 650am. Got the last spot at the close parking lot. It took us a full 8 hours but we did it. I think I'll be asleep by like 8pm. Lol

[Biff Tannen 45509]

We don't have anything resembling a public lands thread, so I'm putting this here.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-avi-kwa-ame-nevada-conservation-willow-7378dadd793195bcedcc8562241cf54f

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden said Tuesday he is establishing national monuments on more than half a million acres in Nevada and Texas and creating a marine sanctuary in U.S. waters near the Pacific Remote Islands southwest of Hawaii. The conservation measures are “protecting the heart and soul of our national pride,″ Biden said.

Speaking at a White House summit on conservation action, Biden said the new monuments are among the “natural treasures” that “define our identity as a nation. They’re a birthright we have to pass down to generation after generation.″

Biden designated Avi Kwa Ame, a desert mountain in southern Nevada that Native Americans consider sacred, as a national monument, along with the Castner Range in El Paso, Texas. He also moved to create a national marine sanctuary in U.S. waters around the Pacific Remote Islands.

 

[CleverNickname 1296]

I am not sure we will ever be able to just hike in Castner. Too much unexploded munitions. But speaking of open lands, the state leg should use some of that 33B surplus to buy out some of those giant ranches for future state parks.

[Hawndoh 2382]

Would be nice but that's a losing battle politically.

Just recently a state park had to close because the park only leased the land and their lease ran out. Gonna be developed into luxury homes behind a gated community. Fairfield Lake SP.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

3 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Would be nice but that's a losing battle politically.

Just recently a state park had to close because the park only leased the land and their lease ran out. Gonna be developed into luxury homes behind a gated community. Fairfield Lake SP.

Yeah, Texas has some of the least (fewest? whatever) public lands of any state. I kinda get it with our history, but it’s a bummer. 

[Saint Tacky 1610]

8 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Just recently a state park had to close because the park only leased the land and their lease ran out. Gonna be developed into luxury homes behind a gated community. Fairfield Lake SP.

Nice park too. Great place to take the Scouts.  Go to spot to knock out some fishing merit badge requirements.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

So I'm a month out from the PCT.  I put in my two weeks at work.  This is fucking happening.  I'm kinda freaking out.  Kinda loving it.  I don't quite know how to react.  Posting on this degenerate website seems like a decent idea.  I fucking love and hate a lot of things in this world.  I hope to learn and love a lot more in the coming months.  @tomahawk dunk knows more than anyone about how this trail will change me.  I just want to see better.  Sorry, I'm drunk and I hope we destroy Miami and then UConn.  Knibb High Football Rules!!!

 

[CleverNickname 1296]

6 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So I'm a month out from the PCT.  I put in my two weeks at work.  This is fucking happening.  I'm kinda freaking out.  Kinda loving it.  I don't quite know how to react.  Posting on this degenerate website seems like a decent idea.  I fucking love and hate a lot of things in this world.  I hope to learn and love a lot more in the coming months.  @tomahawk dunk knows more than anyone about how this trail will change me.  I just want to see better.  Sorry, I'm drunk and I hope we destroy Miami and then UConn.  Knibb High Football Rules!!!

 

Concerns about Sierra snow?

[Biff Tannen 45509]

2 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

Concerns about Sierra snow?

Yeah, I’m pretty much used to the idea that I’m going to have to flip up. Record snows. Like, not even close. But that will still be a decision that will be made mid-June. Gotta get through 700 miles of desert first. 

[mininghorn88 2270]

9 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

So I'm a month out from the PCT.  I put in my two weeks at work.  This is fucking happening.  I'm kinda freaking out.  Kinda loving it.  I don't quite know how to react.  Posting on this degenerate website seems like a decent idea.  I fucking love and hate a lot of things in this world.  I hope to learn and love a lot more in the coming months.  @tomahawk dunk knows more than anyone about how this trail will change me.  I just want to see better.  Sorry, I'm drunk and I hope we destroy Miami and then UConn.  Knibb High Football Rules!!!

 

Would love to do this hike or CDT or the AT but at this time in my life work commitments prohibit such a trek. Hopefully once work responsibilities wane I will still be in a healthy enough shape to tackle one of these.

I know, excuses and all, but it is a reality for me.

Keep us posted and good luck!

[Mach 1 1677]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah, I’m pretty much used to the idea that I’m going to have to flip up. Record snows. Like, not even close. But that will still be a decision that will be made mid-June. Gotta get through 700 miles of desert first. 

Damn dude, that is one helluva personal challenge. Good for you, jealous.

Can you go into some more details on your first stage plan, miles per day, sleeping spots. Every time I drive through Palm Springs I scan the hillside north of I-10 searching for the trail line. Fascinates me.

 

[Biff Tannen 45509]

1 hour ago, Mach 1 said:

Damn dude, that is one helluva personal challenge. Good for you, jealous.

Can you go into some more details on your first stage plan, miles per day, sleeping spots. Every time I drive through Palm Springs I scan the hillside north of I-10 searching for the trail line. Fascinates me.

 

 

The first few hundred miles of the trail is building up stamina and endurance.  "Earning your legs".  Overall, you end up averaging 20 miles per day, though you start around 10-15 miles/day at first.  People who go too hard, too fast usually end up getting injured.  

The pass you are talking about at I-10 (San Gorgonio pass) is where I'm meeting my wife for the first time on trail.  It's right after Mt San Jacinto, which has crazy snow right now.

https://sanjacjon.com/

 

I really really need some of this snow to melt off in the next month.  It's going to be a really weird year for hiking.  I'm preparing to skip around and then come back to sections of trail that are either washed out or impassable.  There will be very few people that actually go straight thru this year, but it's all part of the journey.  

I will be blogging my hike, so PM me if you're interested in following.  It's a very personal blog, so I'm not going to put it out here in public.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

15 days out from the PCT.  Spent the last week buying resupplies and this week is putting it all together.  Friday was my last day at work.  Shit's.  Getting.  Real.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

I bet you'll have better luck if you let us decide what your trail nickname should be.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I bet you'll have better luck if you let us decide what your trail nickname should be.

As tempting as that is, I need it to be organically given on trail.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Anyone know if you can go full Ewok in the Redwood's canopy?

[Kennythetiger 9342]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, Biff Tannen said:

15 days out from the PCT.  Spent the last week buying resupplies and this week is putting it all together.  Friday was my last day at work.  Shit's.  Getting.  Real.

Tomorrow, correct?  If you die can I have your watch?  

[tomahawk dunk 321]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, Biff Tannen said:

15 days out from the PCT.  Spent the last week buying resupplies and this week is putting it all together.  Friday was my last day at work.  Shit's.  Getting.  Real.

Good luck and enjoy it!

[Your Mom 4798]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, Biff Tannen said:

15 days out from the PCT.  Spent the last week buying resupplies and this week is putting it all together.  Friday was my last day at work.  Shit's.  Getting.  Real.

Totally jealous dude.  Hope you get off to a great start.  Looking forward to reading about it. 

[Saint Tacky 1610]

On 4/9/2023 at 12:32 PM, Biff Tannen said:

15 days out from the PCT.  Spent the last week buying resupplies and this week is putting it all together.  Friday was my last day at work.  Shit's.  Getting.  Real.

Godspeed, John Glenn

[Biff Tannen 45509]

7:30 am leave time from the southern terminus tomorrow. Guessing I won’t be posting much here, but I’ll try and check in on occasion. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

Best of luck! A couple of years ago my wife and I took advantage of my company's new policy allowing for four weeks of parental leave for newborn kids up to their first birthday. The policy went into effect the January after our middle child was born, but was retroactive as long as I took the leave before he turned one. So we spent a month touring the western United States with an almost three year old and an almost one year old out of our van (that we had purchased and then subsequently outfitted with stuff like that in mind.) It still remains as one of the best experiences in my life, and I have managed to be decently well traveled in some areas of the world that most folks might read about. Knock it out of the park. This will be one of those experiences that you can tell your grandkids about and inspire them to follow in the same footsteps. Best of luck, we are all rooting for you.

[Biff Tannen 45509]

First day was fucking rough. Had an anxiety attack and almost had heat exhaustion. BUT, today was fucking fantastic. I’m camping on a ridge with cell signal and got to bathe under a waterfall before dinner.