Jump to content

CR Los Angeles fires thread


Hagbard Celine

Recommended Posts

i just read this article:

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/energy-a-environment/5081175-trump-slams-incompetent-la-fire-handling/

this morning the orange man posted a take on his twitter that is so absurdly stupid i wanted to post it by itself in the DT fire thread

then i realized it would get deleted

from the above link:

+++

President-elect Trump slammed officials in charge of handling the raging wildfires in the Los Angeles area, calling them “incompetent.”

“The fires are still raging in L.A.,” Trump wrote on Truth Social early Sunday morning. “The incompetent pols have no idea how to put them out. Thousands of magnificent houses are gone, and many more will soon be lost. There is death all over the place.”

He added that the fires are “one of the worst catastrophes in the history of our Country.”

“They just can’t put out the fires. What’s wrong with them?” he continued.

+++

what is the point of participating in any thread in DT at all?

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

no, no, we're the echo chamber, bro. not them. certainly not those that won't even allow a political mention on a thread where politics and life and inexorably intertwined.

it's about the only board I don't visit anymore. it's not news and it's politics. I don't know what the fuck it is

Edited by Longhorn_Fan68
  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, no, we're the echo chamber, bro. not them. certainly not those that won't even allow a political mention on a thread where politics and life and inexorably intertwined.

it's about the only board I don't visit anymore. it's not news and it's politics. I don't know what the fuck it is

At least one of the mods has an ill-conceived and ill-defined opinion on what constitutes "politics." In the last week, we've also had at least two mods provide opposing definitions of what they think "politics" are. As a result, the moderation in DT can be inconsistent, muddled, and opaque. It's not a feature (I don't think) but a bug and can make for a frustrating user experience that can create resentment.

A concrete rule (even if I don't agree with it) that is consistently enforced would be helpful. Instead, the mods simply go with their gut in a "I know it when I see it" kind of way, but they often miss a lot of the coded language or mentions (sometimes sly, other times blatant) of emerging political debates/topics that they might not be unaware of.

 

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

RIghtly or wrongly, pretty sure Karen Bass is going to bear the brunt of the political fallout from this. Unlike the idiot voters of Texas who gave Abbott a pass after the 2021 winter storm, I think another term as mayor is in serious jeopardy.

Two years is an eternity, think of the mountains of nonsense that will go on before the next election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole of southern California, Los Angeles in particular, struggles with water on ordinary days, as it has since it was first settled.

To the extent there's a water problem, it's same as it ever was.

Also, public spending on infrastructure that might prevent or help fight fires faster would mean higher taxes and sOciALisM!

Edited by TwiceHorn
  • Hook 'Em 7
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Political hot take:

Newsom vetoed a couple bills that specifically were wildfire fire prevention bills in the last few years.  He is at significant political risk because of that.

He was pretty manic on Meet the Press this morning.  I think he know as much.

Edited by Incredulity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, bolverk said:

At least one of the mods has an ill-conceived and ill-defined opinion on what constitutes "politics." In the last week, we've also had at least two mods provide opposing definitions of what they think "politics" are. As a result, the moderation in DT can be inconsistent, muddled, and opaque. It's not a feature (I don't think) but a bug and can make for a frustrating user experience that can create resentment.

A concrete rule (even if I don't agree with it) that is consistently enforced would be helpful. Instead, the mods simply go with their gut in a "I know it when I see it" kind of way, but they often miss a lot of the coded language or mentions (sometimes sly, other times blatant) of emerging political debates/topics that they might not be unaware of.

 

 

 

i mean the Elon Musk thread is nothing BUT politics for like the past year, that choad holds an actual political position now (official in about a week) and that thread just rocks right along. the 'rules' are weird. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Did he justify his veto?

 

https://pasadenanow.com/main/california-governor-vetoes-pasadena-assemblymembers-wildfire-prevention-bill

Cost on this one

The bill had received unanimous, bipartisan support with zero no votes in both houses of the California Legislature. However, Governor Newsom vetoed it, with concerns over increased ongoing costs cited as a factor in the decision

Edited by Incredulity
  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, but it likely wouldn't have had any affect on the current situation, given the late September veto:

Quote

AB 2330 would have allowed local agencies to submit wildfire preparedness plans to the Department of Fish and Wildlife for review within 90 days, inquiring if an incidental take permit or other permits are needed. The legislation proposed a 45-day processing timeline for completed incidental take permit applications and offered approved plans a 5-year permit for wildfire preparedness activities in fire hazard severity zones.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Political hot take:

Newsom vetoed a couple bills that specifically were wildfire fire prevention bills in the last few years.  He is at significant political risk because of that.

He was pretty manic on Meet the Press this morning.  I think he know as much.

He is termed out. And fires are not exactly a new issue. This happens every year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i mean the Elon Musk thread is nothing BUT politics for like the past year, that choad holds an actual political position now (official in about a week) and that thread just rocks right along. the 'rules' are weird. 

Absolutely. It's become a wholly political thread now. Hell, even one of the mods changed the thread's title to call Elon a traitor. Sure, that's "my side" bitching about the fucker, but it's a great example of inconsistent and conflicting moderation rules.

To bring it back to the "CR LA fire," conservative cranks have been trying to make hay of the mess since the second day of this ongoing disaster: Bevo, Raw Dog, 5280, Incredulity, and Chicken Sandwich have all joined in with political takes based on their partisan leanings, talking points in conservative media, opposition to certain government regulations, victim blaming, and outright conspiracy shit. At least they haven't started up on the anti-LGBTQ and DEI shit in that thread yet, although US183 is doing a good job carrying that water in the Satirical Tweets/Political Cartoons threads.

Edited by bolverk
  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

no, no, we're the echo chamber, bro. not them. certainly not those that won't even allow a political mention on a thread where politics and life and inexorably intertwined.

it's about the only board I don't visit anymore. it's not news and it's politics. I don't know what the fuck it is

I see it like this. First 48-96 hours DT can survive with news. Events are happening, etc. Then it falls off and gets brought back to life. But the CR threads then take over and go full force. The only exception I think is the Ukraine thread.

But Prong dick sure did try to CR the DT thread right before he closed down shop Moscow time.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

exactly. it just so happened that this time it was all the rich peeps that got the brunt of it. amazing how heightened things are when they happen to rich folks

Yep, a bit tired of the Hollywood angle. Sorry Kim, you had to evacuate? Be glad your botox did not burst into flames.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

yeah, I really wouldn't know, bc like I said, I don't go in there. nothing you have said changes that in the least

You'll be pleased (but unsurprised) to know that Incredulity made a complete ass of himself...again...by arguing with a firefighter about firefighting.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

You'll be pleased (but unsurprised) to know that Incredulity made a complete ass of himself...again...by arguing with a firefighter about firefighting.

honestly schadenfreude only gets one so far. I would much, much prefer they wake the fuck up and help us advance society. or at the very least, get the fuck out of the way. 

  • Hook 'Em 5
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming the fires burnout at some point, how long does the debris cleanup take? 20,000 structures that take 10 days each?

That orange baboon wants to deport the people willing to do that labor. You think white men are going to do it?

Then where does it go? Haul it out to sea to make an artificial reef?

I can't imagine LA every being the same in my lifetime.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You'll be pleased (but unsurprised) to know that Incredulity made a complete ass of himself...again...by arguing with a firefighter about firefighting.

This is complete bullshit dishonesty.  Par for the course for you to lie.
 

I didn’t argue any point about firefighting.  I said if there is incompetence behind the hydrants running out of water it’s a massive scandal.  Freaking Newsom has call for an investigation on the issue in the following days 

1 hour ago, We’reTexas said:

He is termed out. And fires are not exactly a new issue. This happens every year. 

You think he doesn’t have future ambitions?

Edited by Incredulity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The whole of southern California, Los Angeles in particular, struggles with water on ordinary days, as it has since it was first settled.

To the extent there's a water problem, it's same as it ever was.

Also, public spending on infrastructure that might prevent or help fight fires faster would mean higher taxes and sOciALisM!

Yeah there was a guy on another board who was up in arms about the Malibu fire, saying there's no good reason for all those waterfront houses to burn, because there's all that water right there!!!!!1!1!!. Why can't they just pump water up from the ocean?'

I had to explain to him that ...

Quote

The problem is that the water is farther away than it looks, down the hill and across a wide beach and/or rocks to the waterline, and would require a long, uphill pumping operation with hard suction hose. They'd have to get apparatus down that hill as well to do the pumping, and from what little I know of that area, there is very little access for vehicles, if any. And getting fire engines out on the sand? If you could get them there, you'd probably never get them out. The salt water is also extremely hard on the pumps, and if you were able to get around all of those obstacles to set up such an operation, it would be very resource-intensive and would only really help in the limited area right around it, and there's also the issue in such a drafting operation of pulling in sand and other debris that would probably end the operation in short order. It sucks. So much water just right there, but the best way to access it is with airplanes and helos, which are being grounded by criminally negligent assholes with drones.

To which he responded "Well then they should have a system that uses the seawater for firefighting, and this whole 'salt water is hard on the pumps' thing is all a bit fuzzy". (seriously, he actually said that)

So I explained that ...

Quote

I think what you're talking about here - creating some kind of dedicated, separate firefighting water infrastructure using seawater to provide suppression over a wide area quickly and in a sustained manner - would be just an absolutely colossal, monumental undertaking that would be incredibly expensive and take probably decades to complete, and it still wouldn't ensure safety from something like this happening again. Could it be done? Yep, probably. Will it? I seriously doubt it. This didn't happen due to a firefighting or infrastructure failure. It's a natural disaster. There's not a water infrastructure in the world that could have handled this demand, and nobody will pay what it would cost to create one imho. If there was such a system, it would still be extremely difficult to overcome the fire combat challenges presented by the geographical features, fuel hazards, winds, etc. 

He was still skeptical. Yeah, I know ... shocking.

This is only the beginning. Just as with Elon and Trump and some on this board talking ignorant, simplistic nonsense when it comes to the fires and firefighting, there are plenty of others out there who are sure they know better and aren't trying to hear rational explanations or anything realistic. Saying "This is simply a natural disaster" doesn't even move the needle. Not even a little bit.

Edited by wood
  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All i know is it took less than 48 hours for a tragic situation to become politically charged.

Really?  Nobody GAF about your political persuasion right now.  People's livelihoods and way of life are in the balance.  Can't we wait 10 minutes before we start the flag waving and finger pointing?

Fuck no.  Everything must be viewed through a political lense.  Fuck you people.  Yes.  All you motherfuckers.

Hash this shit out down the road.  and yeah, we know it won't be hashed out then either, but really, I don't need to hear your bullshit right now.  It truly doesn't matter right now.

Edited by Iceman
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Iceman said:

All i know is it took less than 48 hours for a tragic situation to become politically charged.

Really?  Nobody GAF about your political persuasion right now.  People's livelihoods and way of life are in the balance.  Can't we wait 10 minutes before we start the flag waving and finger pointing?

Fuck no.  Everything must be viewed through a political lense.  Fuck you people.  Yes.  All you motherfuckers.

Hash this shit out down the road.  and yeah, we know it won't be hashed out then either, but really, I don't need to hear your bullshit right now.  It truly doesn't matter right now.

this post alone put out 3 acres worth of fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Iceman said:

All i know is it took less than 48 hours for a tragic situation to become politically charged.

Really?  Nobody GAF about your political persuasion right now.  People's livelihoods and way of life are in the balance.  Can't we wait 10 minutes before we start the flag waving and finger pointing?

Fuck no.  Everything must be viewed through a political lense.  Fuck you people.  Yes.  All you motherfuckers.

Hash this shit out down the road.  and yeah, we know it won't be hashed out then either, but really, I don't need to hear your bullshit right now.  It truly doesn't matter right now.

did you lose any property, familly members or friends in Los Angeles in the past week?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

did you lose any property, familly members or friends in Los Angeles in the past week?

Lose?  no.

Endangered? Yes. I have been working in Sylmar since October, so I have co-workers directly impacted, beyond work.  My son and DIL live in Burbank.

Have I been through disasters before?  yes, and at the time, you don't GAF about politics.

Fingerpointing helps not a gotdam soul.

Edited by Iceman
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

thoughts and prayers for your personal ecosystem

all of the fingerpointing was initiated by the protected class (the far right)

it was necessary to start this thread to capture and comment on that fingerpointing because doing so in the DT thread would have resulted in censorship of said capturing and commenting

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

thoughts and prayers for your personal ecosystem

all of the fingerpointing was initiated by the protected class (the far right)

it was necessary to start this thread to capture and comment on that fingerpointing because doing so in the DT thread would have resulted in censorship of said capturing and commenting

In record time, no less.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

thoughts and prayers for your personal ecosystem

all of the fingerpointing was initiated by the protected class (the far right)

it was necessary to start this thread to capture and comment on that fingerpointing because doing so in the DT thread would have resulted in censorship of said capturing and commenting

Yeah, it's kind of similar to the past presidential campaign, wherein Republicans continuously brought up bullshit about kids getting trans surgeries at school, lying about it actually happening, and then blaming Kamala/Democrats for doing it. 

You can either ignore those lies and try to stay on message/topic/whatever, or you can speak up to try to set the story straight (and look defensive). You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's a rhetorical tool like asking someone, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" 

  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

Assuming the fires burnout at some point, how long does the debris cleanup take? 20,000 structures that take 10 days each?

 

don't adjusters and such have to inspect the burned down properties before any clean up can start ?

latin america labor and timber from canada 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is much bigger than state government, regardless of how the American right wants to spin it.  This is a direct result of climate change.  Shit is burning because droughts are deeper and average temperatures are higher, among other things.  Rapidly dealing with a situation like this would require an investment far beyond what any government is willing to spend, yet the politicos still want to point fingers.

Yeah like I said above, a water infrastructure capable of handling such a disaster would be a gargantuan undertaking, if it could be done at all. And if it could be engineered and constructed, there is zero chance imho that anyone would pay for it.

Edited by wood
  • Like 2
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

don't adjusters and such have to inspect the burned down properties before any clean up can start ?

latin america labor and timber from canada 

Yes, but I think for most of these properties it's going to be a simple -- "yeah, it's a total loss situation and there's coverage because it's fire so start the process." The policies are pretty straight-forward from there. Where you run into snags is on the personal property/inventory portion with many carriers. That won't have any bearing on starting the process of demo/debris removal.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

1. I don’t have a problem with this thread being started. And I apologize if my venting implied to otherwise.
2. I have straight up been frustrated by some very right leaning friends and family, making their comments, and I have responded in kind. My response on here was semi related to that.

Again, I think the starting of this thread is a good thing for discussion, but I do struggle tremendously with what politics is going to solve in the next 14 to 28 days, or time of beginning recovery. 

I give ya credit and benefit of the doubt, dude. Politics are the ounce of prevention phase and calamities are the pound of cure. Unfortunately, this-is-not-the-time-to-talk-about-this ism only abets those who who discourage the long-term ounce of prevention for short term gain. Perhaps I have missed the equal political action, but the leader of one political party seems completely unfettered in politicizing it, one not. And despite his circumspect, off-the-cuff claims that will be memory washed by his next NUKE THE MOON proposal, he'll likely benefit from it. 

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is much bigger than state government, regardless of how the American right wants to spin it.  This is a direct result of climate change.  Shit is burning because droughts are deeper and average temperatures are higher, among other things.  Rapidly dealing with a situation like this would require an investment far beyond what any government is willing to spend, yet the politicos still want to point fingers.

Ten or so years ago I read an essay by Paul Krugman who cited two existential threats to the world: income inequity and climate change.  

I posted it and got a lot of "NYTimes is worthless!!" and "he's an idiot!!" from the usual suspects.

  • Rage+1 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...