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Kitchen gut and complete home remodel, Design ideas input and feedback


horn4life

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I have been asking some of these same question on the Real Estate thread, but figured a more diversified set of eyes here.  I am completely remodeling my Dad's lake house on Lake Belton, and there is some insurance money from a ground floor flood, and a brush from a tornado for new roof.  So there is some seed money to start which is awesome.  I have a couple general remodeling questions and more specific kitchen design ones.

But I am at the point where I am trying to decide what appliances I am going to install to make sure everything fits with the cabinets, electrical, plumbing etc.  Anyhow right now the appliances are a 30 inch cooktop, and a 27 in double oven on an opposing wall, in a U shaped kitchen.  The problem is right now there is no built-in microwave.  They used to be on the counter 30 years ago...Normally I would just swap out or cut down the cabinet above the range and replace the vent hood with a microwave hood.  But with the 10 foot ceiling heights I wanted to do a large vent hood for aesthetics.  Plus designer and realtor both thought that was that a built in vent would look better than the traditional microhood.  The good news is that I have two 240 supply sources to work with (I think).

Right now the only appliance I would deem worthy of the remodel would be a Kitchenaid Dishwasher in white, which I could reskin as stainless for <$300 as it's only two years old.    But this remodel is not for me, it's to appeal to buyers.  So please give my your input!

 

1) Hardwoods and Tile in baths/laundry vs Luxury Vinyl Plank (LVP) throughout. -  What is your opinion here.  House is pier and beam and I have picked out some Hickory engineered with lengths as long as 7 feet. I have a bias towards hardwoods, but is it an unfair bias?  We will be at the upper end of range in area because of waterfront.  And since I am saving on some of the labor, and a ton on the doors and cabinets, so right now my flooring budget is $6.75 a foot for all flooring except in baths, before installation.  What is your opinion on value, resale, personal bias on natural wood vs LVP?

2) There are 2-1/2 baths but no tub.  Realtors suggest converting one shower to tub, to increase appeal to families.  I tend to agree and plan to convert a shower into a tub/shower enclosure.  The bathrooms needed remodeling and since the the bath conversion is on a pier and beam subfloor I can more easily move plumbing.  So yes on conversion to tub/shower enclosure?

3) How important is a second oven and built in microwave to you?  The personal cook/ entertainer in me sort of thinks you need two ovens, just for the big Christmas and Thanksgiving events. We have a double oven range, and a convection microwave hood effectively giving us three possible ovens to use.  We use the small oven probably 90+% of the time.  

4) Range vs cooktop and double ovens.  I am leaning toward replacing the cooktop with a range, as I think. ranges simply look better.  I am toying with really going big here, but that's another question.  My thought is that if I replace the cooktop with a range I am freeing up built in space for a microwave/ oven combo to replace the existing double ovens. 

5) Microwave hood, versus built in or stainless steel hood?   What appeals most to you?

6) How important is a pantry? 

7) Would the eye candy of a professional style larger 36 range negate having a second oven?  If you have a built in micro-convection oven as well?  In other words would not having the second conventional oven play into a purchase decision.

😎 How important do you deem the quality of appliances in a home?  How big of a difference do you see between say Kitchenaid (since I have a washer) versus a more professional style range like Thor? 

I will probably be pushed the more conventional route by my father and sister.  Is that's the case I will go with a double oven range, built in hood, and built in microwave(where double ovens now exist). It will be a great improvement in appearance no matter with all new cabinets and countertops, but since I am gutting it, I like toying with different potential ideas.  The only bad thing abotu my 36" range idea is not many options in electric only 36 inch widths.  That's where I thought about the Thor stuff popped up from.  Cost between a 30" double oven Kitchenaid versus Thor as depicted below?

Anyhow there are where my musings have brought me thus far on appliances.  It will likely be different after the weekend.

 

 

 

spacer.pngspacer.pngkspacer.pngbuilt in microwave along with double oven VERSUS

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Regarding the double oven and microwave question:  our built-in microwave has an "oven" mode.  It's smaller than the main oven but it's trimmed out to look like a stacked pair of ovens, and has been adequate to cook (for instance) veggies while the entree is roasting away in the main oven below.  You might look into something like that.

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Do you have room to put the microwave in an under-counter location, or are you short of cabinet space?  That's where ours is and I like it that way, but that was to make sure we had room for double ovens and a warming drawer below the cooktop, all of which I love -- but that was built for our use, not for resale.

And I don't know anything about marketability these days, but I think pantries have become pretty standard, and if I were looking at a nice place on the lake, I'd rather see a pantry than a double oven.

Edited by Damor
muledick
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Oh, and if the pantry's big enough, put in some outlets and a countertop microwave could live in there.

You'll deprive the realtor of the "and just picture your grandkids gathered around the warm glow of this exquisite built-in microwave at the holidays!" spiel, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

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We have a friend who has a second countertop microwave sitting on a low shelf that is accessible for their kids.  In other words, it isn't so high that they are in danger of hot spillage and what not.  Eventually, the kids will not need it and then they'll just put something else there.  We should have done this. 

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I have been asking some of these same question on the Real Estate thread, but figured a more diversified set of eyes here.  I am completely remodeling my Dad's lake house on Lake Belton, and there is some insurance money from a ground floor flood, and a brush from a tornado for new roof.  So there is some seed money to start which is awesome.  I have a couple general remodeling questions and more specific kitchen design ones.
But I am at the point where I am trying to decide what appliances I am going to install to make sure everything fits with the cabinets, electrical, plumbing etc.  Anyhow right now the appliances are a 30 inch cooktop, and a 27 in double oven on an opposing wall, in a U shaped kitchen.  The problem is right now there is no built-in microwave.  They used to be on the counter 30 years ago...Normally I would just swap out or cut down the cabinet above the range and replace the vent hood with a microwave hood.  But with the 10 foot ceiling heights I wanted to do a large vent hood for aesthetics.  Plus designer and realtor both thought that was that a built in vent would look better than the traditional microhood.  The good news is that I have two 240 supply sources to work with (I think).
Right now the only appliance I would deem worthy of the remodel would be a Kitchenaid Dishwasher in white, which I could reskin as stainless for  
1) Hardwoods and Tile in baths/laundry vs Luxury Vinyl Plank (LVP) throughout. -  What is your opinion here.  House is pier and beam and I have picked out some Hickory engineered with lengths as long as 7 feet. I have a bias towards hardwoods, but is it an unfair bias?  We will be at the upper end of range in area because of waterfront.  And since I am saving on some of the labor, and a ton on the doors and cabinets, so right now my flooring budget is $6.75 a foot for all flooring except in baths, before installation.  What is your opinion on value, resale, personal bias on natural wood vs LVP?
2) There are 2-1/2 baths but no tub.  Realtors suggest converting one shower to tub, to increase appeal to families.  I tend to agree and plan to convert a shower into a tub/shower enclosure.  The bathrooms needed remodeling and since the the bath conversion is on a pier and beam subfloor I can more easily move plumbing.  So yes on conversion to tub/shower enclosure?
3) How important is a second oven and built in microwave to you?  The personal cook/ entertainer in me sort of thinks you need two ovens, just for the big Christmas and Thanksgiving events. We have a double oven range, and a convection microwave hood effectively giving us three possible ovens to use.  We use the small oven probably 90+% of the time.  
4) Range vs cooktop and double ovens.  I am leaning toward replacing the cooktop with a range, as I think. ranges simply look better.  I am toying with really going big here, but that's another question.  My thought is that if I replace the cooktop with a range I am freeing up built in space for a microwave/ oven combo to replace the existing double ovens. 
5) Microwave hood, versus built in or stainless steel hood?   What appeals most to you?
6) How important is a pantry? 
7) Would the eye candy of a professional style larger 36 range negate having a second oven?  If you have a built in micro-convection oven as well?  In other words would not having the second conventional oven play into a purchase decision.
How important do you deem the quality of appliances in a home?  How big of a difference do you see between say Kitchenaid (since I have a washer) versus a more professional style range like Thor? 
I will probably be pushed the more conventional route by my father and sister.  Is that's the case I will go with a double oven range, built in hood, and built in microwave(where double ovens now exist). It will be a great improvement in appearance no matter with all new cabinets and countertops, but since I am gutting it, I like toying with different potential ideas.  The only bad thing abotu my 36" range idea is not many options in electric only 36 inch widths.  That's where I thought about the Thor stuff popped up from.  Cost between a 30" double oven Kitchenaid versus Thor as depicted below?
Anyhow there are where my musings have brought me thus far on appliances.  It will likely be different after the weekend.
 
 
 
m_letterbox_ffffff_100480.webpkstainless-steel-kitchenaid-built-in-microwaves-kmbs104ess-64_1000.jpgbuilt in microwave along with double oven VERSUS
thor-kitchen-36-60-cu-ft-oven-electric-range-in-stainless-steel-hre3601-ranges-thor-kitchen-homeoutletdirect-485125.jpg?v=1648918318&width=1500m_letterbox_ffffff_100
TMO30__72402.1724496681.jpg?c=1
 
 
 

Hardwoods all the way. Stay away from grays.
Yes to a tub 100%. Look at freestanding.
Pimp out a pantry - work from there. Wire it. You have to have a pantry - a range and badass pantry is more valuable than a cooktop with double oven and no pantry. I would look hard at the extra wide range with double oven/ warming drawer/etc. do not build this kitchen around a fucking microwave.
Kitchen aid is fine if this is a sub 700k-800k place. Except for a badass range.
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On 1/17/2025 at 12:29 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Regarding the double oven and microwave question:  our built-in microwave has an "oven" mode.  It's smaller than the main oven but it's trimmed out to look like a stacked pair of ovens, and has been adequate to cook (for instance) veggies while the entree is roasting away in the main oven below.  You might look into something like that.

That's like our Profile over range microhood.  But with the double oven range we rarely use it as an oven.  Unless we are trying to cook some extra casseroles for a big family event on the wife''s side.  I am thinking that if I have a built in (likely a drawer) that can operate as a second conventional oven would check that second oven box. Or third oven if a double oven range.

 

On 1/17/2025 at 12:44 PM, Damor said:

Do you have room to put the microwave in an under-counter location, or are you short of cabinet space?  That's where ours is and I like it that way, but that was to make sure we had room for double ovens and a warming drawer below the cooktop, all of which I love -- but that was built for our use, not for resale.

And I don't know anything about marketability these days, but I think pantries have become pretty standard, and if I were looking at a nice place on the lake, I'd rather see a pantry than a double oven.

 

On 1/17/2025 at 2:52 PM, thunderlounge said:


This shit right here. The bigger, the better. Especially if light on counter space.

 

I am leaning toward conversion of the Double oven space into some sort of pantry space.  Or make a hybrid pantry/ micro-oven space  to take advantage of the existing electrical.  This is more my second choice if I can't find a good home for an under counter unit.  

 

2 hours ago, Handcruser said:


Hardwoods all the way. Stay away from grays.
Yes to a tub 100%. Look at freestanding.
Pimp out a pantry - work from there. Wire it. You have to have a pantry - a range and badass pantry is more valuable than a cooktop with double oven and no pantry. I would look hard at the extra wide range with double oven/ warming drawer/etc. do not build this kitchen around a fucking microwave.
Kitchen aid is fine if this is a sub 700k-800k place. Except for a badass range.

  • Grays are out, and were never my preference even when they were in. 
  • Not enough room for a freestanding tub (but I tried!). 
  • Want a microwave that could double as conventional oven as well, preferably under counter unit to free up space for pantry space.
  • Clarify on the "except for badass range? I'm reading as go bigger on the range?

Thanks for all input.

I will have some time to sit down and lay out some options this week while freezing... assuming the power stays on.

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  • Grays are out, and were never my preference even when they were in. 
  • Not enough room for a freestanding tub (but I tried!). 
  • Want a microwave that could double as conventional oven as well, preferably under counter unit to free up space for pantry space.
  • Clarify on the "except for badass range? I'm reading as go bigger on the range?
Thanks for all input.
I will have some time to sit down and lay out some options this week while freezing... assuming the power stays on.

Yeah - look here:

https://www.bluestarcooking.com/cooking/ranges/
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Lets talk kitchen faucets for a moment.

I've got hammered copper sink and am shopping for an antique finish faucet, are there any brands above the standard Delta/Moen that are worth a few extra bucks? I prefer a pull-out sprayer.

My stepmom customized the hell out of the kitchen, brick backsplash, petrified wood looking tile countertops, saltillo tile floors, copper vent hood, its super interesting and Im glad I have no plans to move.

Edited by BearSchlong
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1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Lets talk kitchen faucets for a moment.

I've got hammered copper sink and am shopping for an antique finish faucet, are there any brands above the standard Delta/Moen that are worth a few extra bucks? I prefer a pull-out sprayer.

My stepmom customized the hell out of the kitchen, brick backsplash, petrified wood looking tile countertops, saltillo tile floors, copper vent hood, its super interesting and Im glad I have no plans to move.

These aren't the ones I was looking for but you get the idea.  While I was in the rabbit I found some sinks also.

Handcrafted America: Glass Faucets | Magma Build Studios

These Stained Glass Sinks Will Transform Your Kitchen into an Art Gallery – Inspiring Designs

get your checkbooks out, boys.

Edited by Bevo&Pevo
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On 1/17/2025 at 11:21 AM, horn4life said:

the appliances are a 30 inch cooktop, and a 27 in double oven on an opposing wall, in a U shaped kitchen.  The problem is right now there is no built-in microwave. 

I stopped here: Get a speed oven and a regular oven as your double ovens. The newer speed ovens can double as a microwave.

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12 hours ago, Bevo said:

I stopped here: Get a speed oven and a regular oven as your double ovens. The newer speed ovens can double as a microwave.

The idea is I am going to replace the double oven.  I think I could get by with a range oven and a speed micro, convection micro, Advantium or whatever branding you want to call a microwave that can function as an oven.  

18 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

is a double oven a little much for a vacation home on water ?

Maybe, but it was my folks full time place.  And as somebody who likes to cook and entertain, I (we) use both the double ovens on our range, most anytime we have anyone over.  What we like the best is the smaller upper oven, because we can preheat it quickly and perfect pizzas, and roasting vegetables.  A LOT more efficient that the full size convection oven. 

After looking through a bunch of comps at and above price range, I have decided I don't really need to go too big on the oven.  As in don't need to drop in a larger 36" unit, as I like my cabinet layout better with the same 30 inch spacing replacing the cooktop and the range.

This smaller profile microwave, and the double oven kitchen aid freestanding range (with the elevated control panel) with a re-skin of the dishwasher to stainless steel is probably the cheapest of my choices.  Cost breakdown $300 for DW stainless front,  $1100 for micro and $2300 for range.  $3600 for the look, sounds good from the financial math side right now.  ROI

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Edited by horn4life
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One caveat, which probably applies to most big box brands, is our recent experience with KitchenAid:  we built our house in 2015 and loaded it up with KitchenAid Cafe series appliances.  Every single one failed, some within the warranty period.  It's nuts.

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11 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

At least someone could work on it. Finding someone to fix that lg/sammy crap is a bitch. 

The only warranty I've ever purchased is American Home Shield.  Honestly, it has paid for itself.  (The biggest payoff was a total replacement of a wall oven at $3K+.)  They fixed our LG washer/dryer, so there are some techs out there.

They (AHS) do get fussy from time to time, though.  It's not always pleasant jumping through the hoops.

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17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

One caveat, which probably applies to most big box brands, is our recent experience with KitchenAid:  we built our house in 2015 and loaded it up with KitchenAid Cafe series appliances.  Every single one failed, some within the warranty period.  It's nuts.

That's actually my only hesitation.  The KA stuff is apparently NOT that good from a reliability standpoint.  I actually like some of the GE profile stuff the best.  Interestingly my Dad is actually interesting in the quality and not wanting to buy based on that.  AND the one thing that makes me think maybe spend more money is if my Father passed and my Sister and I see how a 30 day plus furnished rental might fare for us? THEN I would really care about reliability!  

I have no doubt unless the market collapses that the house will sell.  But if rates are high, that could hurt my top line number. 

As JJ says above - I would always spring for a Home Shield Policy as a seller, as it's a cheap safeguard for my moral side, as I never want to screw somebody over, even accidentally.  So maybe the shit Kitchen Aid wins out! 😉

 

 

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25 minutes ago, horn4life said:

That's actually my only hesitation.  The KA stuff is apparently NOT that good from a reliability standpoint.  I actually like some of the GE profile stuff the best.  Interestingly my Dad is actually interesting in the quality and not wanting to buy based on that.  AND the one thing that makes me think maybe spend more money is if my Father passed and my Sister and I see how a 30 day plus furnished rental might fare for us? THEN I would really care about reliability!  

I have no doubt unless the market collapses that the house will sell.  But if rates are high, that could hurt my top line number. 

As JJ says above - I would always spring for a Home Shield Policy as a seller, as it's a cheap safeguard for my moral side, as I never want to screw somebody over, even accidentally.  So maybe the shit Kitchen Aid wins out! 😉

 

 

Sorry, my bad -- GE Cafe.  My last house had KitchenAid.  It was equally flaky.

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21 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Lets talk kitchen faucets for a moment.

I've got hammered copper sink and am shopping for an antique finish faucet, are there any brands above the standard Delta/Moen that are worth a few extra bucks? I prefer a pull-out sprayer.

My stepmom customized the hell out of the kitchen, brick backsplash, petrified wood looking tile countertops, saltillo tile floors, copper vent hood, its super interesting and Im glad I have no plans to move.

Delta and Moen are pretty middle of the road. If you want to step up into a luxury brand, you’re talking Kallista, Waterworks, Brizo, etc. We replaced our kitchen faucet with this one from Kallista a couple of months ago and I love it. Very sturdy feel and looks great in our kitchen.

https://www.kallista.com/products/luxury-kitchen/faucets/kitchen/juxtapose-by-mick-de-giulio-semi-professional-faucet-p23174-2mb

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2 hours ago, horn4life said:

The idea is I am going to replace the double oven.  I think I could get by with a range oven and a speed micro, convection micro, Advantium or whatever branding you want to call a microwave that can function as an oven.  

Maybe, but it was my folks full time place.  And as somebody who likes to cook and entertain, I (we) use both the double ovens on our range, most anytime we have anyone over.  What we like the best is the smaller upper oven, because we can preheat it quickly and perfect pizzas, and roasting vegetables.  A LOT more efficient that the full size convection oven. 

After looking through a bunch of comps at and above price range, I have decided I don't really need to go too big on the oven.  As in don't need to drop in a larger 36" unit, as I like my cabinet layout better with the same 30 inch spacing replacing the cooktop and the range.

This smaller profile microwave, and the double oven kitchen aid freestanding range (with the elevated control panel) with a re-skin of the dishwasher to stainless steel is probably the cheapest of my choices.  Cost breakdown $300 for DW stainless front,  $1100 for micro and $2300 for range.  $3600 for the look, sounds good from the financial math side right now.  ROI

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30 inch ranges look puny and cheap in a high end kitchen. Highly suggest that you reconsider and bump up to at least 36 inch. We’ve had Thermador ranges in our last two homes and have been extremely pleased with them.

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