Jump to content

14th Amendment - Birthright Citizenship


Anastasis

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

pretty sure i used my passport as i don't have my birth certificate 

Your birth certificate was likely in the chain of documents used to obtain one of those docs (like your passport) at some point or another.

But the point is...that doesn't fucking matter.  What was your PARENTS' legal status when you were born?   Don't have all their paperwork?  Begone, you dirty illegal!*

 

*This standard doesn't apply to good old real American white folk, of course.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Another thing, the prospective nature (30 days from the date of the EO) of this is not going to fly on a constitutional interpretation thing.

It either means what it currently means, or what they say it means.  So it will be fully retroactive.

Correct.  You're either all-in on this approach, or you're all-out.  There's no half measures.

If allowed to stand, will it be used by the administration to place the burden of proof on anyone/any class/ethnicity etc. that they don't like, and if they don't prove their parents status within X days, they are deemed non-citizens and deported?  100% chance of that, because that is exactly WHY you enact something so arbitrary and impossible to satisfy.  And hey, what rights do I have to due process?  Me?  You mean the dirty beaner wetback who can't even prove his parents' status so I'm not even a citizen?  Due process is for REAL 'MERICANS, not dirty wetback beaners.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

gotta admit I was TIL years old to learn that Gold Star meant anything
A gold star on your driver's license signifies that it is "REAL ID" compliant, meaning it meets federal standards for identification and can be used for purposes like boarding domestic flights or entering certain federal buildings; essentially, it indicates you provided the necessary documentation to prove your identity at a higher level of security than a standard license. 

The More You Know Nbc GIF by For(bes) The Culture

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Your birth certificate was likely in the chain of documents used to obtain one of those docs (like your passport) at some point or another.

But the point is...that doesn't fucking matter.  What was your PARENTS' legal status when you were born?   Don't have all their paperwork?  Begone, you dirty illegal!*

 

*This standard doesn't apply to good old real American white folk, of course.

I agree with you. But I don't think there is anything inherent or intrinsic to the latino and browner skin. I think it's just because the lionshare of immigrants (and illegal immigrants) are latino and brown due to geography. If the borders were being inundated with Dutch people, you'd get a bunch of Dutch slurs and hate, etc.

I think that's why in Canada you see the villianization of immigrants with their demographic (Arabs) and the same thing with Germany (Turks), etc. (Granted all those situations are the whiter skin being immigrated upon in droves by darker skin, but it's not inherently the skin color that is the problem)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Sec. 2.  Policy.  (a)  It is the policy of the United States that no department or agency of the United States government shall issue documents recognizing United States citizenship, or accept documents issued by State, local, or other governments or authorities purporting to recognize United States citizenship, to persons:  (1) when that person’s mother was unlawfully present in the United States and the person’s father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth, or (2) when that person’s mother’s presence in the United States was lawful but temporary, and the person’s father was not a United States citizen or lawful permanent resident at the time of said person’s birth.

I work with a lot of South Asians in tech, and the women among them are carefully reading this part and worrying about their kids.  Are their kids, born in the USA, citizens, they ask?

These are women who left their home country with an education, came to this country, got an advanced degree, and are helping to make the tech that allows Trump to speak to us with his thumbs.  Some got married and had kids here in the US while they were headed down the H1-B path.

Now they are asking me for details about the 14th amendment and what it means and how to check on what it means and what it will mean in the future and if their kids are US citizens are not.

And I'm like, well hey, we used to have people that owned other people and then we had a war and after that some folks didn't want people that didn't look like them them to be citizens so we wrote this 14th thing and then some folks still came up with corner cases to prevent people born here from being citizens so we had to work that out in the courts and we all thought we were good until MONDAY!  I'm not exactly sounding a reassuring tone.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

I work with a lot of South Asians in tech, and the women among them are carefully reading this part and worrying about their kids.  Are their kids, born in the USA, citizens, they ask?

These are women who left their home country with an education, came to this country, got an advanced degree, and are helping to make the tech that allows Trump to speak to us with his thumbs.  Some got married and had kids here in the US while they were headed down the H1-B path.

Now they are asking me for details about the 14th amendment and what it means and how to check on what it means and what it will mean in the future and if their kids are US citizens are not.

And I'm like, well hey, we used to have people that owned other people and then we had a war and after that some folks didn't want people that didn't look like them them to be citizens so we wrote this 14th thing and then some folks still came up with corner cases to prevent people born here from being citizens so we had to work that out in the courts and we all thought we were good until MONDAY!  I'm not exactly sounding a reassuring tone.

Indians get royally fucked under the current system. I have had the discuss a few times with one of my guys and their green card process is incomprehensible. He's close to the top of the list (as I understand it) and his kids are all very young, but for those with kids in the teenage years it could get to be a very dicey situation as they near 18 if the parent isn't on a landing approach to citizenship. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

If the borders were being inundated with Dutch people, you'd get a bunch of Dutch slurs and hate, etc.

(Granted all those situations are the whiter skin being immigrated upon in droves by darker skin, but it's not inherently the skin color that is the problem)

John Candy Reaction GIF

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Indians get royally fucked under the current system. I have had the discuss a few times with one of my guys and their green card process is incomprehensible. He's close to the top of the list (as I understand it) and his kids are all very young, but for those with kids in the teenage years it could get to be a very dicey situation as they near 18 if the parent isn't on a landing approach to citizenship. 

In the current system, the way an Indian coworker told me, his kid was closer to being 18+ and getting to the age where the kid could sponsor his parents for citizenship than the wait period and timing of getting his green card naturally. I think his kid is like 13.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

gotta admit I was TIL years old to learn that Gold Star meant anything
A gold star on your driver's license signifies that it is "REAL ID" compliant, meaning it meets federal standards for identification and can be used for purposes like boarding domestic flights or entering certain federal buildings; essentially, it indicates you provided the necessary documentation to prove your identity at a higher level of security than a standard license. 

The More You Know Nbc GIF by For(bes) The Culture

Yes, and a birth certificate showing you were born in the US is a key component of that for those of us "natural born citizens."

That document is no longer relevant under this rule and your Real ID ain't so real anymore.

This is going to be colossally expensive, if nothing else.

Edited by TwiceHorn
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, and given that a birth certificate showing you were born in the US is a key component of that for those of us "natural born citizens."

That document is no longer relevant under this rule and your Real ID ain't so real anymore.

This is going to be colossally expensive, if nothing else.

i’m glad they are not going two generations back, as my immigrant grandparents may have come in lawfully, but I have not one damn document to show that. 

edit: the thought just hit me  - Trump might have great success having his goons go to nursing homes where old people who speak funny English probably don’t have access to any of their immigration stuff.  Maybe he wants to seize Greenland because he needs a ton of ice flow to put them on. 

Edited by Gatorubet
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i’m glad they are not going two generations back, as my immigrant grandparents may have come in lawfully, but I have not one damn document to show that. 
edit: the thought just hit me  - Trump might have great success having his goons go to nursing homes where old people who speak funny English probably don’t have access to any of their immigration stuff.  Maybe he wants to seize Greenland because he needs a ton of ice flow to put them on. 

Very few people do. Want to bet who will be challenged on that, and who won’t? It’s a super-easy way to punish/expel those deemed disloyal to the regime, and protect loyalists. It’s not about immigration, it’s about purging all non-MAGAts.
  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

i’m glad they are not going two generations back, as my immigrant grandparents may have come in lawfully, but I have not one damn document to show that. 

edit: the thought just hit me  - Trump might have great success having his goons go to nursing homes where old people who speak funny English probably don’t have access to any of their immigration stuff.  Maybe he wants to seize Greenland because he needs a ton of ice flow to put them on. 

If we don't accept that a birth certificate showing birth in the US as proof of citizenship. hardly anyone except recently naturalized citizens has any proof of citizenship.

Of course, for those of us with light enough complexions and speaking sufficiently 'murican English, that won't be a problem.  

Edited by TwiceHorn
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Indians get royally fucked under the current system. I have had the discuss a few times with one of my guys and their green card process is incomprehensible. He's close to the top of the list (as I understand it) and his kids are all very young, but for those with kids in the teenage years it could get to be a very dicey situation as they near 18 if the parent isn't on a landing approach to citizenship. 

My supervisor is Indian. When we met, she was here on a visa- probably h1b.  She has a PhD in immunology and had previously worked on research at md Anderson, and transitioned into industry working in r&d in biotech. Her first application for resident status was denied.  She was told that is common because our system is silly. She tried again, for several thousand more dollars, and was approved. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, and a birth certificate showing you were born in the US is a key component of that for those of us "natural born citizens."

That document is no longer relevant under this rule and your Real ID ain't so real anymore.

This is going to be colossally expensive, if nothing else.

A U.S. passport shows your place of birth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A U.S. passport shows your place of birth. 

Yeah, mine shows outside the US. At least it is a bad ass place to get deported to. My wife is excited. We await the brownshirts daily. Or will Melania get to dress them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

gotta admit I was TIL years old to learn that Gold Star meant anything
A gold star on your driver's license signifies that it is "REAL ID" compliant, meaning it meets federal standards for identification and can be used for purposes like boarding domestic flights or entering certain federal buildings; essentially, it indicates you provided the necessary documentation to prove your identity at a higher level of security than a standard license. 

The More You Know Nbc GIF by For(bes) The Culture

They’ve only been harping about it since 2019 or so. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

For those who didn't click the link, you may think from the URL "headline" that Navajos are accidentally getting swept up.

Here's a key passage from the article to show how fucked up this is:

Ignacio said the Trump administration’s new policies are taking aim at tribal communities in new and shocking ways, which will draw attention to them and spur tribal responses.

For example, the Trump administration openly questioned the U.S. citizenship of Indigenous peoples as part of its defense of Trump’s executive order to suspend birthright citizenship in the U.S.

Trump signed the executive order shortly after he was sworn into office this week. It would end birthright citizenship for babies born to a mother and father who are not U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents.

A federal judge in Seattle on Thursday temporarily blocked the executive order seeking to end birthright citizenship, calling Trump’s action “blatantly unconstitutional.”

In defending the constitutionality of the executive order, the U.S. Department of Justice erroneously argued in court that Indigenous people didn’t have birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment because they were not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States, so neither should the children of noncitizen immigrants. 

“The United States’ connection with the children of illegal aliens and temporary visitors is weaker than its connection with members of Indian tribes,” DOJ argued in a filing. “If the latter link is insufficient for birthright citizenship, the former certainly is,” the Trump administration argued.”

The DOJ cited an 1884 U.S. Supreme Court case, Elk v. Wilkins, in which the high court decided that “because members of Indian tribes owe ‘immediate allegiance’ to their tribes, they are not ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ of the United States and are not constitutionally entitled to Citizenship.” 

But the DOJ ignored congressional action, the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, that explicitly gave Indigenous people U.S. birthright citizenship and effectively ended the rejection of citizenship that the Supreme Court had upheld four decades earlier.

  • Rage+1 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A U.S. passport shows your place of birth. 

Based on?  Your birth certificate.  And, again, place of birth becomes irrelevant under this analysis.

Even us whiteys that get the papiere, bitte, are fucked like chuck if push comes to shove.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

For those who didn't click the link, you may think from the URL "headline" that Navajos are accidentally getting swept up.

Here's a key passage from the article to show how fucked up this is:

Ignacio said the Trump administration’s new policies are taking aim at tribal communities in new and shocking ways, which will draw attention to them and spur tribal responses.

For example, the Trump administration openly questioned the U.S. citizenship of Indigenous peoples as part of its defense of Trump’s executive order to suspend birthright citizenship in the U.S.

Trump signed the executive order shortly after he was sworn into office this week. It would end birthright citizenship for babies born to a mother and father who are not U.S. citizens or lawful permanent residents.

A federal judge in Seattle on Thursday temporarily blocked the executive order seeking to end birthright citizenship, calling Trump’s action “blatantly unconstitutional.”

In defending the constitutionality of the executive order, the U.S. Department of Justice erroneously argued in court that Indigenous people didn’t have birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment because they were not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States, so neither should the children of noncitizen immigrants. 

“The United States’ connection with the children of illegal aliens and temporary visitors is weaker than its connection with members of Indian tribes,” DOJ argued in a filing. “If the latter link is insufficient for birthright citizenship, the former certainly is,” the Trump administration argued.”

The DOJ cited an 1884 U.S. Supreme Court case, Elk v. Wilkins, in which the high court decided that “because members of Indian tribes owe ‘immediate allegiance’ to their tribes, they are not ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ of the United States and are not constitutionally entitled to Citizenship.” 

But the DOJ ignored congressional action, the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, that explicitly gave Indigenous people U.S. birthright citizenship and effectively ended the rejection of citizenship that the Supreme Court had upheld four decades earlier.

See what happens when you get rid of civil servants in the DOJ?  They should have used past tense in reference to the American Indians, but I think a more important aspect of that is that at the time of the 14th Amendment, Indian tribes were not subject to the jurisdiction of US courts or laws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

If we don't accept that a birth certificate showing birth in the US as proof of citizenship. hardly anyone except recently naturalized citizens has any proof of citizenship.

Of course, for those of us with light enough complexions and speaking sufficiently 'murican English, that won't be a problem.  

Good thing I'm fluent in redneck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Yeah, mine shows outside the US. At least it is a bad ass place to get deported to. My wife is excited. We await the brownshirts daily. Or will Melania get to dress them?

Me too!  My US Passport states place of birth as “Madrid, Spain”.   What it doesn’t say is it was on a US Airforce base.  Oh well, I won’t be fighting the deportation with mich vigor regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

to say that midterms will be interesting as an understatement.  If we are allowed to vote and all.

I am old, so it is my belief that the zoomers will adore Trump for making sure they didn't have to go longer than 24hrs without TikTok and that the internment of non-whites and the LGBTQ will not matter to them.

And those zoomers who are vaguely aware of moral goodness will do sad TikTok dances outside the concentration camps.

  • Haha 1
  • Rage+1 1
  • Drool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I am old, so it is my belief that the zoomers will adore Trump for making sure they didn't have to go longer than 24hrs without TikTok and that the internment of non-whites and the LGBTQ will not matter to them.

And those zoomers who are vaguely aware of moral goodness will do sad TikTok dances outside the concentration camps.

IMG_4044.gif.c5b0f5e0a07cb1b64b7809ed64c0ef1f.gif

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I thought I was clever and original but I shouldn't be shocked it already exists.

Someone take me out back and tie me to a post. I'm done.

Remember when you thought the GOP wouldn’t come to love the 1/6 terrorists?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

what's the deportation plan here ?

 

4 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Duh, send them back to Siberia where they came from, uh, 15,0000 years ago, and drill for oil on their land.  

Think about it for a minute though. The timberland some tribes own in Wisconsin, the mineral resources on the Pine Ridge reservation in SD and other tribal lands across the country, the casino properties, etc Just as many Japanese-Americans lost much of their assets during WWII when they were removed to camps far away from their homes, others stepped in and reaped the windfall of their labor. There are plenty of people who wouldn't bat an eyelash at this type of action.

 

 

There is a good article in a recent Smithsonian magazine about a few cool Americans who did the right thing and tended farms etc for their neighbors while they were away and welcomed them back when they were able to return. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...