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ROFL BOX

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ROFL BOX

ROFL BOX 6647

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Grand Slam of High Adventure.

https://www.NationalHighAdventureAwards.org/

The Scouter who received this patch is Scoutmaster Emeritus for our Troop - 6 years - & under his tenure I think we have 18 Eagles. I can find no better example of a Scouter than Tim & his Scout is also a fine Eagle.961593d8f0d4308c34630a1b6d7b05a7.jpg

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

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We had five Cubs in the Lakewood 4th of July parade this year. It was our first opportunity to participate and the boys had a grand time. Pro tip - get some aluminum poles for marching. Those wooden poles are heavy and our biggest Cub wrestled it the whole way through the parade. I had a Betsy Ross flag on an aluminum pole and the smaller guys traded off carrying it every block or so. They were so proud to march. We had a pretty good district wide turnout so all in there were probably between 50-75 Cubs/Scouts/Scouters.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

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So Mrs. F and Chad Jr. are on safari in Kenya while dad had too many work obligations to make that trip happen. I get up this morning and they tell me on the way from the airport to the safari the guide is pointing out random points of local interest and then said something that made Mrs. F say they had to stop.

d9889431741a2ef0203be4daed838c84.jpg

Any guesses? Ok I’ll tell you:
f0b22f7d70f3086930c62d677992e200.jpg

They said there was a nice little Scouting museum there.
e30933d197c505ebd88691ce470d528f.jpg

Check out all the worldwide patches:
66131fc272deb113592739f3f0c6d82b.jpg
Looks like our neighbors had already been:
145c0eb642537e388198ced3e20986d4.jpg

Circle Ten Council is in the book though:
3d38b1d1b35880bb260a2636a2bfb2c2.jpg
Unfortunately Chad Jr. couldn’t get any Kenyan patches as the lady who runs the gift shop had locked it up to go to a funeral. Still - super random and very cool!

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sasquatch69

sasquatch69 596

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We're planning out our coming year of campouts, etc.  We've got some solid plans on paper, but our PLC tends to lean towards fun campouts we've done in the past.  Mostly, that's fine, but I'd love for them to consider new ideas.  Anyone (particularly those in North Texas area) have any suggestions for really fun campouts you did/campout destinations that were unique or different?  Thanks.

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abuelo gringo

abuelo gringo 321

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Posted
On 7/5/2021 at 8:35 AM, Chad Fuck said:

So Mrs. F and Chad Jr. are on safari in Kenya while dad had too many work obligations to make that trip happen. I get up this morning and they tell me on the way from the airport to the safari the guide is pointing out random points of local interest and then said something that made Mrs. F say they had to stop.

d9889431741a2ef0203be4daed838c84.jpg

Any guesses? Ok I’ll tell you:
f0b22f7d70f3086930c62d677992e200.jpg

They said there was a nice little Scouting museum there.
e30933d197c505ebd88691ce470d528f.jpg

Check out all the worldwide patches:
66131fc272deb113592739f3f0c6d82b.jpg
Looks like our neighbors had already been:
145c0eb642537e388198ced3e20986d4.jpg

Circle Ten Council is in the book though:
3d38b1d1b35880bb260a2636a2bfb2c2.jpg
Unfortunately Chad Jr. couldn’t get any Kenyan patches as the lady who runs the gift shop had locked it up to go to a funeral. Still - super random and very cool!

Great info.  If anyone heads over to visit London, you can visit Gilwell after about an hour long train ride. They have a trading post there, too.

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Saint Tacky

Saint Tacky 1614

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On 7/9/2021 at 11:38 AM, sasquatch69 said:

We're planning out our coming year of campouts, etc.  We've got some solid plans on paper, but our PLC tends to lean towards fun campouts we've done in the past.  Mostly, that's fine, but I'd love for them to consider new ideas.  Anyone (particularly those in North Texas area) have any suggestions for really fun campouts you did/campout destinations that were unique or different?  Thanks.

Broken Bow for Kayaking. Not too difficult, even for the younger, smalller scouts. There’s a private campground we use that’s safer than the State Park or other public facilities near the damn. Let me know if you’re interest and I’ll find the contact info. We have always made it our September camp out 

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sasquatch69

sasquatch69 596

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Just got back from Philmont (posted more on the hiking thread).  I was really intrigued by the change in their approach to conservation and fire prevention that occurred after the Ute Park fire in 2018 (which has left a huge chunk of Philmont closed, likely for years to come).  This video does a great job talking about the fire and what has changed since.

 

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ROFL BOX

ROFL BOX 6647

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22 hours ago, sasquatch69 said:

Nice - do you know what itinerary they were on?

I do not. They were on a 2 week trip, however... maybe 1 day's drive out from 78620, 1 day back?  11+ hours (no stops... Google Maps) drive, so add 2 to 3 hours for rando stops along the way?

 

image.png.0a63572f78d377beb7c5e6c61f09405a.png

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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Official Guidelines:

Quote

 

Our council's Covid Task Force has resumed its requirement for the use of face coverings at council/district events. The only exceptions are if it's possible to maintain six feet or more of social distancing from one person to the next, or if people are from the same household.

The Task Force is no longer requiring council/district events to have a certified "Covid-19 Safety Officer." Instead, individual units attending said events (as well as the event's leadership) will be responsible for enforcing our council Covid-19 guidelines as spelled out in the legacy Covid-19 Safety Officer Training. Units/event leadership can learn the Covid-19 guidelines by either taking the free virtual Covid-19 Safety Officer Training offered one Sunday each month, or they can view a recording of the training now posted to our council's Camp Reopening web page or our council's YouTube account.

 

Just like we thank those who just washed their cars right before it rains, you can thank me for having done the covid safety trying so that you all don't have to.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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Turns out the National Jamboree is coming back in July of 2023, right before the World Jamboree, which is in South Korea (but my kid won't be earning the hot dog badge I guess).

They haven't said where it is supposed to be held though, but probably Summit Bechtel Reserve.

And I just realized the kids have to be 12 and up, so not happening for us.  Furk.

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ROFL BOX

ROFL BOX 6647

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Summit Bechtel is the "permanent home" for National Jambo, so... yes.

We (Monster + me) are trying to get to South Korea, so this should be interesting. Will have to bring it up to the Troop & see what their motivation is.

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Native Horn

Native Horn 3498

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43 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Friday, Thanksgiving Week, the Kansas State game, UT is doing $35 tickets for Scouts/families.  Check your emails.

I suppose it could teach your Scout something.....humility?

Pretty sure Scouting USA is doing everything they can to prevent abuse these days.  Maybe if you pay for it, it's consensual?

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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Anybody else who helps run their Pack's website/email/contact/etc. get spammed by a casting agency that's doing an outdoor photo shoot in the Austin area next month for some big client?  We have theories about the client they didn't name, based on the wording and their previous work.

It's not something we are going to pass along to the other parents, but it was just one of the weirder "legitimate" spams.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21827

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My son has submitted his Eagle application and it is being vetted now.  But they did come back and say he needed to have the "religious aspects of his spirituality" addressed. We are not the most religious family, "Chreasters" at best.  They said the letter can come from a member of the clergy, or barring that, I can add a statement addressing that to my letter of recommendation that I've already submitted.  

Anyone able to offer guidance on how to address this?  I want it to be sufficient, but not insincere.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

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My son has submitted his Eagle application and it is being vetted now.  But they did come back and say he needed to have the "religious aspects of his spirituality" addressed. We are not the most religious family, "Chreasters" at best.  They said the letter can come from a member of the clergy, or barring that, I can add a statement addressing that to my letter of recommendation that I've already submitted.  
Anyone able to offer guidance on how to address this?  I want it to be sufficient, but not insincere.

Eagle Scout here - Not sure I even understand the question. Addressed in what way? I’d seek some clarification on what they’re looking for here. Who among them shall cast the first stone when addressing personal religious concerns?
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21827

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2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:


Eagle Scout here - Not sure I even understand the question. Addressed in what way? I’d seek some clarification on what they’re looking for here. Who among them shall cast the first stone when addressing personal religious concerns?

This is what they said:

Yesterday, GLAAC leadership let me know that since you did not have a letter of recommendation from a clergy member, that your parents would have to discuss your spirituality in their letter of recommendation.

 Here are their words:

"With the assumption that the letter from one or both of the parents with cover the spiritually aspects of (sbbruinjr’s) life”

 And

“There is no name listed under the “Religious” category under Requirement 2 on the application.  If the applicant does not have any person listed who is affiliated with a religious organization, then the parents’ letter must address the religious aspect of the applicant’s life (12th point of the Scout Law)”

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

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1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

This is what they said:

Yesterday, GLAAC leadership let me know that since you did not have a letter of recommendation from a clergy member, that your parents would have to discuss your spirituality in their letter of recommendation.

 Here are their words:

"With the assumption that the letter from one or both of the parents with cover the spiritually aspects of (sbbruinjr’s) life”

 And

“There is no name listed under the “Religious” category under Requirement 2 on the application.  If the applicant does not have any person listed who is affiliated with a religious organization, then the parents’ letter must address the religious aspect of the applicant’s life (12th point of the Scout Law)”

Ok this is more clear now.  I am very sympathetic to non-traditional religious or not very religious folks engaged in the program.  I think you have to make a couple things clear - he has some religious/spritiual guiderails he keeps - whether they are part of an organized group or not.  If they are, cite the group and then then cite examples of how that's worked over his time in Scouts.  If not, I think you go more generally about broad spiritual beliefs, but again, cite examples of how time in Scouts has expanded or fulfilled these beliefs.  I think I may answer it something along these lines:

Both Mr. & Mrs. sbbruinjr's parents have been very active in Jr's religious and spiritual upbringing.  We believe x, y, z (doesn't have to be too defined, and I don't think you have to say you belong to 1, 2, 3 church).  It has been great watching him grow in this way through his work in Scouts and in the community such as (fill in your "did x project, that served my religion in this way" i.e., collected food, becuase my religion says to feed the hungry; handed out clothes becuase it says clothe the naked, etc. etc.).  You may want to address whatever group you belong to...or don't if you don't belong to a group.  

I don't currently sit on any Eagle review boards, and granted it's been decades since I dealt with any of this.  This is just me shooting from the hip trying to help a brother out.  I'm very interested to see what other's viewpoints are around here.

If you make a good faith stab at the above, I'd be very surprised if they came back and said, "Well, Jr. just isn't religious enough to be an Eagle Scout."  

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21827

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Ok this is more clear now.  I am very sympathetic to non-traditional religious or not very religious folks engaged in the program.  I think you have to make a couple things clear - he has some religious/spritiual guiderails he keeps - whether they are part of an organized group or not.  If they are, cite the group and then then cite examples of how that's worked over his time in Scouts.  If not, I think you go more generally about broad spiritual beliefs, but again, cite examples of how time in Scouts has expanded or fulfilled these beliefs.  I think I may answer it something along these lines:

Both Mr. & Mrs. sbbruinjr's parents have been very active in Jr's religious and spiritual upbringing.  We believe x, y, z (doesn't have to be too defined, and I don't think you have to say you belong to 1, 2, 3 church).  It has been great watching him grow in this way through his work in Scouts and in the community such as (fill in your "did x project, that served my religion in this way" i.e., collected food, becuase my religion says to feed the hungry; handed out clothes becuase it says clothe the naked, etc. etc.).  You may want to address whatever group you belong to...or don't if you don't belong to a group.  

I don't currently sit on any Eagle review boards, and granted it's been decades since I dealt with any of this.  This is just me shooting from the hip trying to help a brother out.  I'm very interested to see what other's viewpoints are around here.

If you make a good faith stab at the above, I'd be very surprised if they came back and said, "Well, Jr. just isn't religious enough to be an Eagle Scout."  

Excellent stuff, thanks.

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luke duke

luke duke 6412

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Incredibly proud Papa today.  The boy just had his Eagle Board of Review and is now the newest Troop 1 Eagle Scout.  He really is kick ass kid.  His shit is wired way tighter than mine ever was.


Chad Fuck must have signed the spirituality letter.
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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

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Incredibly proud Papa today.  The boy just had his Eagle Board of Review and is now the newest Troop 1 Eagle Scout.  He really is kick ass kid.  His shit is wired way tighter than mine ever was.
fd8680a5faa953e41d07c68f7a51d344.jpg

This is great news. Congratulations!

I suppose the religious issue wasn’t an issue, but how did y’all work around it? Curious for future reference.
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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21827

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3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:


This is great news. Congratulations!

I suppose the religious issue wasn’t an issue, but how did y’all work around it? Curious for future reference.

I just amended my letter of recommendation to include a small reference to how his faith in God helped form his moral compass and how in his role as Chaplain’s aid he guided the prayer at several Court of Honor’s.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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On 3/6/2022 at 5:28 AM, Chad Fuck said:

I suppose the religious issue wasn’t an issue, but how did y’all work around it? Curious for future reference.

It's complicated, and we run into this problem for our Cub Scouts around this time of year (well a month or two ago) as we close out the year, make sure everybody is good to go on finishing requirements to move on to the next rank, and plan for the fall, etc.

First off, I want to bitch on something related:  it's a pain in the ass when people I personally know are of the types that somewhat lose their shit that Cub Scouts/BSA are now "woke" because they admitted girls, gays, lesbians, trans, etc. etc.  Mind you, they don't have kids in scouting, so they have no skin in the game (and if they did, they are free to pick a pack or troop chartered through a church of their choosing), but they just have to comment on it and get pissy when I say "you know what, our kids are in scouts with the same kids that they attend school with or hang out with in the neighborhood or are the kids of our friends that we got into scouting, so just shut up about it."

Me: Bryan Cranston Reaction GIF

I bring this up, because in this "woke" scouting organization we still have to deal with the religious adventure requirement(s).  Mind you, we have atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. in our pack, and even among the Christians in the pack, very few of them are attending church/temple outside of a few times a year.

And I have plenty of friends whose kids are in other packs, who run into this problem as well.  It's 2022.  There's just not that many kids whose parents are invested enough in churchgoing/religion to completely follow the requirements to a T.  And it's not a confirmation bias or cognitive bias or any other kind of bias based on where we live or who we know - the stats show as a whole that church attendance has been declining over the last 20 years.  When we were going to my wife's former church, those in our age range were almost always outnumbered by the gray/white hairs.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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We've always left the religious adventures up to the parents to do at home.  I was glad that they left it out when they put together the Lion requirements.

I've had the religious adventure conversation with our reps and with some folks at the Council level, and it came down to this:  They didn't exactly put anything on paper for us, but told us to try to complete them in the spirit of serving something other than yourself, such as your community.  Not a problem as we do plenty of community service projects with various area groups/shelters/etc.

It's a pain though, because for instance these are the requirements in Cub Scouts:

Tiger Circles Duty to God:

Quote

Complete Requirement 1 plus at least two others.

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life.
  2. With a family member, attend a religious service or other activity that shows how your family expresses reverence for God.
  3. Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age or grade.
  4. Help with a local service project and talk with your den or family about how helping others is part of our duty to God.
  5. With the approval of your parent/guardian, den leader, or other caring adult, think of and then carry out an act of kindness or respect that you think shows duty to God.

Wolf Duty to God/Footsteps:

Quote

Complete Requirement 1 or 2 plus at least two others.

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life.
  2. Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age, if you have not already done so.
  3. Offer a prayer, meditation, or reflection with your family, den, or pack.
  4. Read a story about people or groups of people who came to America to enjoy religious freedom.
  5. Learn and sing a song that could be sung in reverence before or after meals or one that gives encouragement, reminds you how to show reverence, or demonstrates your duty to God.
  6. Visit a religious monument or site where people might show reverence. Create a visual display of your visit with your den or your family, and show how it made you feel reverent or helped you better understand your duty to God.

Bear - Fellowship and Duty to God

Quote

Complete the following requirements.

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life.
  2. Complete at least one of the following:
    1. Identify a person whose faith you admire, and discuss this person with your family.
    2. With a family member, provide service to a place of worship or a spiritual community, school, or community organization that puts into practice your ideals of duty to God and strengthens your fellowship with others.
  3. Complete at least one of the following:
    1. Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age, if you have not already done so.
    2. Make a list of things you can do to practice your duty to God as you are taught in your home or place of worship or spiritual community. Select two of the items and practice them for two weeks. 

The thing that drives me crazy is that the parts of the above adventures that I have highlighted, could easily be used to transition those core adventures from being God-based to service based.  They could absolutely leave in the parts about God/Church/whatever, but just shuffle the requirements around so that a belief in God/Church/whatever (or in the way that it's framed in Christianity/Judaism) are not required.

Edited by atomheartbevo
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89618

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At a scouting leadership conference here in Austin a few years ago at the Fickett center, as well as a few other events where I ran into leadership above the Capitol Area Council level (including Top Men and Women), I've actually told these people that the religious stuff causes problems for us.  We have plenty of parents who want everything else to do with Scouting, but but they do a little reading or look at the requirements, and it turns them off when they see the religious stuff.

It's really frustrating, because BSA as a whole is trying to include everybody and they even have things like the Citizenship in Society Merit Badge.

All I get back from these people I've talked to is

  • "We don't really see it as a problem nationally" (and the person saying this, we are discussing it in Texas, which is nearly the buckle of the Bible Belt)
  • "We are looking into it, but it's complicated"
  • "We have discussed it, but we get a lot of pushback from churches and other groups who threaten to pull out/pull their charters"
  • and so on.

In terms of pushback from churches and "other groups", I'm sure they were leading the charge on opposing the gender/diversity stuff, and BSA still went through with including a lot more people in scouting.

@Sbbruin @Chad Fuck @ROFL BOX I'm curious what you all think of the below changes:

In terms of complications, I've sent this email to folks about it.  Basically, simplifying the adventures (refer to my previous manifesto post above for the original requirements), and I've bolded the changes I would make to get the non-religious parents to feel more comfortable:

AtomHeartBevo's changes to grade levels 1-3 religious requirements:

Tiger: Duty to Community  Complete Requirement 1 plus at least two others.

  1. Help with a local service project and talk with your den or family about how helping others is a part of our duty as scouts.
  2. With the approval of your parent/guardian, den leader, or other caring adult, think of and then carry out an act of kindness or respect that you think shows duty to others in your community, such as military veterans, helpers or caregivers such as hospital works, first responders, or organizations within your community that help others.
  3. If you are religious, discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to God. Tell how you do your duty to God in your daily life.
  4. If you are religious, with a family member, attend a religious service or other activity that shows how your family expresses reverence for God.
  5. If you are religious, earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age or grade.

Wolf: Footsteps in Your Community (Complete Requirement 1 or 2 plus at least two others.)

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to your community. Tell how you do your duty to your community in your daily life.
  2. Offer a prayer, meditation, or reflection with your family, den, or pack. (I bumped this up to #2 because it's a good, neutral achievement)
  3. Read a story about people or groups of people who came to America to enjoy religious or other freedoms.
  4. If you are religious, Earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age, if you have not already done so.
  5. If you are religious, Learn and sing a song that could be sung in reverence before or after meals or one that gives encouragement, reminds you how to show reverence, or demonstrates your duty to God.
  6. Visit a monument or site where people might show reverence (such as a veteran's cemetery, a church, etc.). Create a visual display of your visit with your den or your family, and show how it made you feel reverent or helped you better understand your duty to your community or your religious values. (this one wasn't changed much from the original, at least in spirit).

Bear: Fellowship and Duty to Community (Complete the following requirements.)

  1. Discuss with your parent, guardian, den leader, or other caring adult what it means to do your duty to your community. Tell how you do your duty to your community in your daily life.
  2. Complete at least one of the following:
    1. Identify a person that you admire, and discuss this person with your family.
    2. With a family member, provide service to a school, community organization, place of worship or a spiritual community,  that puts into practice your ideals of duty to your community and strengthens your fellowship with others. (I didn't change much here).
  3. Complete at least one of the following:
    1. Make a list of things you can do to show commitment to helping others in your community, and select two items and practice them for two weeks.
    2. If you are religious, earn the religious emblem of your faith that is appropriate for your age, if you have not already done so.
    3. Make a list of things you can do to practice your religious duty to God as you are taught in your home or place of worship or spiritual community. Select two of the items and practice them for two weeks. 
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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17658

Posted
Posted

This issue came up recently in our Pack.  Our charter org is the school PTA.  We're in an elementary that draws from all parts of Dallas, from a wide economic, racial, and religious backgrounds.  We're pretty much the melting pot.  We have one family that are very engaged and active, but dad is an athiest.  The dad is at all the meetings and is right there with his son.  But when the word "religion" comes up he immediately goes into "fight" mode.  He's not having it.  We've basically done what @atomheartbevo suggested and we define "religion" very loosely.  As far as I'm concerned, this kid and his family are lifting up our community together.  If you want to call that their "religion" in order to move on up, well then who am I to say? 

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