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American Airlines flight 5342 (CRJ) collides with Army UH-60 at DCA.


UnivTex34

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3 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:


The FAA does recruit military controllers. The FAA runs a training academy in Oklahoma City.

 

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Well no wonder they're having trouble recruiting!

 

As part of a leadership program I got a tour of Tinker AFB including their modern state of the art tower and near billion dollar tower training simulator and it was pretty badass. If you're a real airplane nerd I bet you could find yourself happy in OKC for that program, if that's where it's held.

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They were still doing recovery from what I could tell on my evening walk. Lot of boat traffic off of Bolling.

I’m not up to date on dive recovery operations; my specialty is sarin/tabun/polonium-212, fire, ECMO and drugs. But the last I remember was regardless of depth, NFPA sets a limit for how long someone can be submerged on air. No way they have enough qualified divers. In the DC and Baltimore FD’s to attack this kind of mission.
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2 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:


I’m not up to date on dive recovery operations; my specialty is sarin/tabun/polonium-212, fire, ECMO and drugs. But the last I remember was regardless of depth, NFPA sets a limit for how long someone can be submerged on air. No way they have enough qualified divers. In the DC and Baltimore FD’s to attack this kind of mission.

I don’t know what they were actually doing, just a lot of boat traffic off Bolling at a time of year when the Potomac is usually pretty quiet. Lots of Powerboats zipping around Haines Point today.

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I don’t know what they were actually doing, just a lot of boat traffic off Bolling at a time of year when the Potomac is usually pretty quiet. Lots of Powerboats zipping around Haines Point today.

I wasn’t arguing your observation at all, just offering my limited insight into those operations. This will be a very lengthy process
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3 hours ago, Royalfan5 said:

As a guy who doesn't know anything about ATC, where do we find the people for those jobs, do they come out of the military or elsewhere, because I can't imagine wanting the job where you can kill a bunch of people if you fuck up badly enough. Seeing prices go up and down in ag commodities is more than enough for me. 

 

3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

There are apparently a couple of universities that offer majors in ATC now.  This happened thanks to a push from the FAA, who didn't have enough facilities to train enough people.  

 

3 hours ago, elfenix said:

there's been a headcount shortage for years and there's also repeating waves of retirements that happen due to a lot of ATCs all being hired at the same time in the early 1980s and all aging out at the same time. which then necessitates a big wave of hiring, and all of them age out at about the same time. repeat every 25 or so years.

Definitely a shortage of pilots and atc.

My son is in school to get his R-ATP. He's only 18 and will graduate college at 20 (too young to fly) and the airlines are tripping over themselves to get him in their program.

Same program has ATC training. Same situation. And if you decide to do ATC and Quality, you're set for life (under the current rules).

 

There was a gap when ATC and Pilots made no bank, so nobody went into the field... And it's expensive as fuck to get hours outside of the military... But only so many can fly military and... Wallah... Shortage.

 

My understanding from listening and from the flight path is that the heli was in the wrong.

DCA airspace sucks ass... I've diverted from there a couple times.

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36 minutes ago, 'stache said:

 

As part of a leadership program I got a tour of Tinker AFB including their modern state of the art tower and near billion dollar tower training simulator and it was pretty badass. If you're a real airplane nerd I bet you could find yourself happy in OKC for that program, if that's where it's held.


Tinker has some bas ass shit, indeed.

Although if you knew some of the aircraft and their roles, you’d never get within 300 miles of the place.

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Info on the people on the plane. Many were parts of US figure skating teams returning from training. 

Quote

Fourteen members of the figure skating community were passengers on an American Airlines jet that collided with an Army helicopter near Ronald Reagan National Airport and crashed into the Potomac River in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, according to Skating Club of Boston executive director Doug Zeghibe.

The flight carried 60 passengers and four crew members, while an Army official said three soldiers were aboard the helicopter.

Washington fire chief John Donnelly said Thursday morning that it is not believed that there were any survivors and that efforts had shifted to a recovery operation.

Zeghibe said six members or associates of the Skating Club of Boston were killed in the crash, including teenage skaters Jinna Han and Spencer Lane. Their mothers, Jin Han and Christine Lane, as well as their coaches Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov were also killed.

Han and Lane, who was about 16, were returning from the U.S. Figure Skating Championships.

"We watched Jinna just grow up here from just a tiny little tyke into this amazingly mature 13-year-old," Zeghibe said. "A great performer, a great competitor, and off the ice, a great kid."

Also killed were Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov, who won the pairs title at the 1994 world championships and competed twice in the Olympics. They were listed as coaching at the Boston club.

"Skating is a very close and tight-knit community. These kids and their parents, they're here at our facility in Norwood, six, sometimes seven days a week. It's a close, tight bond," Zeghibe said. "This will have long-reaching impacts for our skating community."

Alexandr Kirsanov and two youth ice skaters whom he coached were on board the flight, Kirsanov's wife, Natalya Gudin, told ABC News.

The Philadelphia Skating Club & Humane Society said in a post on social media that "beloved members" of its team were on the plane. The group did not say how many members were on the plane.

U.S. Figure Skating said the skaters were returning from a developmental camp that followed the U.S. Figure Skating Championships over the weekend in Wichita, Kansas.

 

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37 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Info on the people on the plane. Many were parts of US figure skating teams returning from training. 

 

Fucking tragic.  In the end, it all boils down to human error in the face of some pretty overwhelming odds of heavy air traffic in a relatively tight space.

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Just now, Gucci_Suit said:

I love how the facts thread is dead while the political self stroker thread took off. 
 

Good. 

On the one hand yea.  On the other hand, in this kind of situation after about a day there are not a lot more facts besides identification of the victims to come out until the NTSB, etc do their thing.  There will be another Youtube here or there with maybe some new nugget but we kind of know what we know at this point.  

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19 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

On the one hand yea.  On the other hand, in this kind of situation after about a day there are not a lot more facts besides identification of the victims to come out until the NTSB, etc do their thing.  There will be another Youtube here or there with maybe some new nugget but we kind of know what we know at this point.  

Yeah. That’s right. 

Edited by Gucci_Suit
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23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


That’s actually exactly the point. If you want to talk facts, and evidence based investigation and analysis…there shouldn’t be much to say after the initial flurry of objective info.
If, on the other hand, you are a loathsome piece of shit who wants to blame minorities and women for literally everything, then there’s a million sewer pipes spewing that shit.

But, not everyone is a loathsome piece of shit. I mean…. Ok dude. Tell me which sewer pipe we belong in I guess. Fuck. I’m a minority so tell me and my wife where to go please 

Edited by Gucci_Suit
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6 hours ago, Gucci_Suit said:

In the USA:

-Airlines are safer than walking 2 blocks in any metro downtown

Wut? Tell me you live in a live in a flyover  state without telling me you live In a shitty flyover state 

edit: shitty

Edited by achooloco
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43 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Wut? Tell me you live in a live in a flyover  state without telling me you live In a shitty flyover state 

edit: shitty

I live in tarrytown. I’m a minority that has probably flown over your home in the last week. 

23 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

On 1, you are full of shit.

On 2, new Boeings?

 

Huh? Educate me. Obviously you know more. 

Edited by Gucci_Suit
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The Army helicopter in the crash might have been flying higher than approved.

The military helicopter that collided with an American Airlines regional jet on Wednesday night appears to have been flying too high and outside its approved flight path at the time of the crash, according to four people briefed on the matter but not authorized to speak publicly.

The Army Black Hawk helicopter was supposed to be flying in a different location and lower to the ground as it traversed the busy Reagan National airspace, the people said.

Before a helicopter can enter any busy commercial airspace, it must get the approval of an air traffic controller. In this case, the pilot of the helicopter asked the air traffic controller for permission to use a specific, predetermined route that lets helicopters fly no higher than 200 feet and that hugs the bank on the east side of the Potomac River, a location that would have let it avoid the American Airlines plane.

The requested route — referred to as Route 4 at Reagan — followed a specifically carved out path already known to the air traffic controller and helicopter pilot. The helicopter pilot confirmed visual sight of the American Airlines plane, and the air traffic controller instructed the helicopter pilot to follow the route and go behind the plane.

But the helicopter pilot did not follow the intended route, the people briefed on the matter said.

Rather, the helicopter was above 300 feet, not below 200 feet, and was at least a half-mile off the approved route when it collided with the jet.

A senior Army official urged caution in making any assessments until the helicopter’s black box could be recovered and analyzed, along with other forensic data.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing inquiry, said the Black Hawk’s pilots had flown this route before, and were well aware of the altitude restrictions and tight air corridor they were permitted to fly in near the airport.

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26 minutes ago, Gucci_Suit said:

I live in tarrytown. I’m a minority that has probably flown over your home in the last week. 

Yeah…no. My statement is more than accurate. Safer than Any fucking metro downtown? Who talks like that? Go back to England. 

not sure if the rest of your diatribe is true but the first part is so godawfully fucking dumb that it invalidates anything else you wrote. Do better 

Edited by achooloco
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1 hour ago, Gucci_Suit said:

But, not everyone is a loathsome piece of shit. I mean…. Ok dude. Tell me which sewer pipe we belong in I guess. Fuck. I’m a minority so tell me and my wife where to go please 

I don't think you'll like the president's answer to that question any more than you've liked any of his other statements. 

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26 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The Army helicopter in the crash might have been flying higher than approved.

The military helicopter that collided with an American Airlines regional jet on Wednesday night appears to have been flying too high and outside its approved flight path at the time of the crash, according to four people briefed on the matter but not authorized to speak publicly.

The Army Black Hawk helicopter was supposed to be flying in a different location and lower to the ground as it traversed the busy Reagan National airspace, the people said.

Before a helicopter can enter any busy commercial airspace, it must get the approval of an air traffic controller. In this case, the pilot of the helicopter asked the air traffic controller for permission to use a specific, predetermined route that lets helicopters fly no higher than 200 feet and that hugs the bank on the east side of the Potomac River, a location that would have let it avoid the American Airlines plane.

The requested route — referred to as Route 4 at Reagan — followed a specifically carved out path already known to the air traffic controller and helicopter pilot. The helicopter pilot confirmed visual sight of the American Airlines plane, and the air traffic controller instructed the helicopter pilot to follow the route and go behind the plane.

But the helicopter pilot did not follow the intended route, the people briefed on the matter said.

Rather, the helicopter was above 300 feet, not below 200 feet, and was at least a half-mile off the approved route when it collided with the jet.

A senior Army official urged caution in making any assessments until the helicopter’s black box could be recovered and analyzed, along with other forensic data.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing inquiry, said the Black Hawk’s pilots had flown this route before, and were well aware of the altitude restrictions and tight air corridor they were permitted to fly in near the airport.

What a damned tragedy. Breaks my heart. Breaks my heart 

21 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Yeah…no. My statement is more than accurate. Safer than Any fucking metro downtown? Who talks like that? Go back to England. 

not sure if the rest of your diatribe is true but the first part is so godawfully fucking dumb that it invalidates anything else you wrote. Do better 

Kooool. I’ll go back to England. 

Edited by Gucci_Suit
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37 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Yeah…no. My statement is more than accurate. Safer than Any fucking metro downtown? Who talks like that? Go back to England. 

not sure if the rest of your diatribe is true but the first part is so godawfully fucking dumb that it invalidates anything else you wrote. Do better 

I’m going to like your post here Loco. We’d probably appreciate each other in another conversation. We can get along. Just get along. 

Edited by Gucci_Suit
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27 minutes ago, Gucci_Suit said:

I’m going to like your post here Loco. We’d probably appreciate each other in another conversation. We can get along. Just get along. 

Fair enough. But the fact you think a “downtown” in the USA is that dangerous still invalidates anything else you wrote.  

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