Jump to content

American Airlines flight 5342 (CRJ) collides with Army UH-60 at DCA.


UnivTex34

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

Question for any first responders….is there a functional reason that every emergency vehicle still has their lights blazing while stationary and no indication that anyone survived?  Not trying to diminish the tragedy, just curious watching the live shots on TV.

It's for safety. Most of those vehicles are on or very near public roadways, park access roads, etc, even when stationary. They may have people working around them, may have to reposition at a moment's notice, etc ...

Edited by wood
  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Even better his wife fucked Puck on Real World San Francisco

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Campos-Duffy

Now this is fucking news.

It's old news, but it's fucking news.  Literally news about somebody fucking somebody.

And still probably would, even if 9 kids have traveled that canal.

Season 6 Flirt GIF by Friends

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone post about the occupants of the plane involved, it seems a large contingent of US figure skaters (perhaps juvenile), coaches and family were onboard. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/us/figure-skaters-dc-plane-crash.html?smid=url-share

IMG_3677.thumb.jpeg.d2da866e16b2ae82c32bfc1373d6ceb3.jpeg

Edited by Vito Andolini
  • Rage+1 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Vito Andolini said:

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone post about the occupants of the plane involved, it seems a large contingent of US figure skaters (perhaps juvenile), coaches and family were onboard. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/us/figure-skaters-dc-plane-crash.html?smid=url-share

IMG_3677.thumb.jpeg.d2da866e16b2ae82c32bfc1373d6ceb3.jpeg

Fucking tragic. my wife is a former figure skater and now coach under US Figure Skating. I havent seen which skaters were on that flight, i did see the names of a russian pair Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov were on it. this is going to be a real gut check when the US names come out. Absolutely horrific  

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Fucking tragic. my wife is a former figure skater and now coach under US Figure Skating. I havent seen which skaters were on that flight, i did see the names of a russian pair Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov were on it. this is going to be a real gut check when the US names come out. Absolutely horrific  

All of them were now American.  Most of them either Russian-American or kids of Russian immigrants. At least that’s what Telegram is reporting.  I’m not going to repost till confirmed. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

All of them were now American.  Most of them either Russian-American or kids of Russian immigrants. At least that’s what Telegram is reporting.  I’m not going to repost till confirmed. 

from the unconfirmed list I saw venturing down the rabbit hole,  I dont recognize the names. Seems to appear they were mostly teen youth members/coaches of the club who were  in Wichita for camp/watch nationals. 

 

One kid has a picture of the wing with ICT->IAD on his instagram story....fuckin awful 

 

Edited by MNLonghornFUKM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Telegraph_it said:

The pilots of the CRJ had no idea that helicopter was there. 
 

image.thumb.png.d274f0a1ac3c08671bac54be3b6e24bc.png

 

last ads-b ping

image.thumb.png.4766f32e60c45170e83279a5f28cd306.png

 

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884810725819900131?s=46&t=6oLCU-AGKArRP1-IO_5Y2A

I’ll interject here and say that the PSA crew was well aware of the helicopter was there. They were probably working on the assumption that the helicopter was maintaining visual separation and were focused on the landing which was imminent. TCAS is inhibited below 1000 feet so they were likely positionally aware of the helicopter.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to a good chunk of that air traffic audio recording, and I couldn't understand hardly anything anyone said. I sure hope ATC & pilots have better audio than what I heard. Of course, they've got a shitload more experience listening to the radio chatter than I do. 

They do. I run a LiveATC feed and it requires a good radio, antenna, and line of site to the tower and sky around the airport to stream quality audio. Many feeds may have good tower audio or good plane audio depending on positions but not as many have both.
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, randomhorn said:
Quote

A lot of people asking what the helo was doing there. USCG helo pilot here who’s flown that route a thousand times:

DC has a whole network of helo routes and zones designed to organize helo traffic and route it under and around commercial traffic. Route 4 goes right down the east side of the Potomac, max altitude of 200 ft. It is not uncommon for helos to be flying under landing traffic once visual separation is established and with correct altitudes maintained.

From the ADSB data, it looks like the helo was southbound on Route 4, and the airliner was on final to rwy 33. Here’s one plausible scenario… just one that fits the facts we know right now, could be totally wrong: Landing on 33 is not as common as landing on rwy 1. Airliners are often not cleared/switched for RWY 33 until just a few miles south of the Wilson Bridge. Let’s say the H60 is southbound and is told to maintain visual separation with the landing CRJ. The 60 crew may not have caught that the CRJ in question was landing 33, which is less common. They look south and see lights of the next aircraft lined up for RWY 01, and they report “traffic in sight, will maintain visual separation.” Then they cruise south, looking south. Maybe the CRJ is a little low on their approach or the H60 is accidentally a little high on their route and fails to see the CRJ approaching from their 10 o’clock. The CRJ is focused on DCA which is surrounded by a sea of lights in the metro area. They don’t notice one small set of lights out of place at their 1-2 o’clock as they focus on the runway. The controller believes the helo will maintain visual separation so wouldn’t suspect a problem until too late to do anything. Bam.

EDIT: Updates…

I listened to the audio and can confirm that the CRJ was asked if they could switch from RWY 01 to RWY 33 just a few minutes before landing, which they agreed to do. Also, the H60 (PAT25) was asked to look for the CRJ a couple minutes before impact. They apparently reported the CRJ ‘in sight’ and agreed to maintain visual separation. They could have been looking at the correct aircraft, which was just beginning to circle east to line up for RWY 33, or they could have already been mistakenly looking at a different aircraft lining up for landing. There are a lot of lights out there at night. Then, when things are getting close, tower actually reconfirmed with PAT25 that they had the CRJ in sight, then directed PAT25 to pass behind the CRJ. To me, this indicates that tower might have seen that it was going to be a close pass and wanted to be sure that PAT25 wasn’t trying to cross right in front of the CRJ. Unfortunately, if PAT25 was mistaken on which aircraft they were watching, this wouldn’t help.

Common question: what about Night Vision Goggles (NVGs)? - I’m in the USCG, but I assume this Army crew likely had NVGs. But goggles are not a panacea… they don’t show color, they dramatically limit your peripheral view, and in bright, urban environments, they can get oversaturated aka washed out. Flying through DC, it can change minute by minute as to whether you are better off “aided” (goggles down in front of your eyes) or “unaided” (goggles flipped up out of the way on your helmet). Sometimes it even varies depending on which side of the aircraft you’re on. Just because they had goggles doesn’t mean they were more likely to see the airliner. The airliner has a lot of bright lights on already, and the same goggles that help them avoid trees and power lines could also have reduced their peripheral vision at key moments.

LAST EDIT: Another FAQ, then I have to sleep….

What about TCAS? - TCAS is great but speaking for the systems I’m familiar with, they’re not primarily designed for a dense airport environment like that… its accuracy at short range is not great, and with so many aircraft so close to you, including those that are sitting on the ground at DCA, you generally have to mute or inhibit the alerts because it would go off constantly and drown out your communications with your crew and ATC. Think about a ring doorbell camera: it’s great for alerting you when a suspicious person shows up unexpected at 1 AM, but it’s not much good while you’re having a house party at 7pm… you probably muted it because you KNOW there are dozens of people there and you’re okay with it. I have no idea what kind of system the CRJ or H60 have or what their procedures are, but it’s possible that TCAS could have been saturated/muted while flying that close to DCA, and even if it wasn’t, they may not have been able to distinguish the alert for the CRJ from another aircraft until too late.

 

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This press conference is like an academy awards speech: “I want to thank the governor, the mayor, the sec of transportation, the ceo of AA, the DC police, the FBI , the parks department etc etx”

Barely talking about WTF happened they are all so worried about leaving someone out of their fucking “acceptance” speech 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Now this is fucking news.

It's old news, but it's fucking news.  Literally news about somebody fucking somebody.

And still probably would, even if 9 kids have traveled that canal.

Season 6 Flirt GIF by Friends

It’s a big job gettin by with 9 kids and a wife 

Even I’ve been griftin man dang near all my life 

But I’ll keep griftin

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That autostarts. I turned it off when I realized what I was about to see. Consider putting in a spoiler?

Yeah not a bad idea.  I tried after the fact, but alas, it was too many clicks.

The video is not graphic, but I get it.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m curious what everyone else on the bird was doing. We used to have a saying “3 to go, 1 to say no”. That was the short way of reminding everyone that safety is everyone’s job. Everyone on the crew was tasked with watching for hazards as much as the pilot, and we all had NVG. All of these safety measures were adapted from the military, so I’m not sure how the hell this could happen.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A figure skater was denied from boarding the flight that ended in a fatal collision with a military helicopter near Washington, D.C.on Wednesday because his pet dog was too big, according to Russian state media.

Jon Maravilla told RIA Novosti that he was informed, during check-in, that his dog could not be carried on the flight because of size restrictions. Unable to board the plane, he departed by car.

A U.S. junior bronze medalist in pairs, Maravilla was scheduled to take American Airlines Flight 5342 from Wichita, Kansas to Washington, D.C.
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/figure-skater-jon-maravilla-reveals-he-missed-doomed-dc-flight-because-of-his-dog/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, randomhorn said:

 

2 hours ago, HiggyBaby said:

That’s a  good analysis. 

 

2 hours ago, immamac said:

 


This is as good an explanation you’ll get for now.   Quoting so it doesn’t get lost on the previous page. 

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

not sure if true, but why the fuck would a helicopter being flying 'black' that close to the airport ?

it wasn't

full ads-b transponder signal evident on all the tracking sites

no one can fly dark in the dca zone

too many links too much to post but search this string if you want to deepdive:

<TSA DCA Access Standard Security Program>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, randomhorn said:

i'll wager that's what happened

we do not have a supercomputer/AI capability which takes all of the TCAS and ADS-B data and projects forward in time - all it does is render on screens and humans have to interpret it

this is a perfect opportunity for doge to get a win so he who must not be insulted can spike the football

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Texas Fight said:

 

A figure skater was denied from boarding the flight that ended in a fatal collision with a military helicopter near Washington, D.C.on Wednesday because his pet dog was too big, according to Russian state media.

Jon Maravilla told RIA Novosti that he was informed, during check-in, that his dog could not be carried on the flight because of size restrictions. Unable to board the plane, he departed by car.

A U.S. junior bronze medalist in pairs, Maravilla was scheduled to take American Airlines Flight 5342 from Wichita, Kansas to Washington, D.C.
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/figure-skater-jon-maravilla-reveals-he-missed-doomed-dc-flight-because-of-his-dog/

As if he didn't love the dog enough already.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Drool 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Don’t give Rafael Cruz any ideas, will end up with a private luxury metro car just for our political hero’s to use at the expense of everyone else

this was posted just a few hours before the crash

https://viewfromthewing.com/almost-no-one-can-fly-private-at-washingtons-dca-airport-yet-this-newly-elected-senator-jets-in-and-out-daily/#respond

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

 

full ads-b transponder signal evident on all the tracking sites

Now we know what to blame.

But seriously, I've hated every time I've flown into DCA and now I'll hate it even more. I already deal with a healthy fear of flying despite doing it a lot. This is just more nightmare fuel for the fire. 

We really need to overhaul our air traffic safety. Too many close calls recently and it appears to be getting worse. 

It sucks that anyone died, but it especially sucks that it was plane full of talented kids. RIP to all. 

  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Why are the respective Senators from both Kansas and Virginia even there?  They don't know shit about fuck.  Last night, they even spoke.  (Said nothing, really.)

It's like Kennedy in Louisiana holding court after the NO shooting.  He knows nothing and has no role in anything.

I heard it departed from Wichita, but no idea on the VA senator. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Why is Russian State media covering this or interviewing people? That seems odd to me. 

Based on this short piece, it sounds like several Russian citizens were on board, like, a significant share of the passengers.

U.S. and Russian Figure Skaters Among Passengers on Crashed Jet
Members of the U.S. figure skating community were traveling on the commercial jet that collided with a military helicopter outside Washington. They were returning from a skate camp in Kansas.

Figure skaters from the United States and Russia were among the 64 people onboard the commercial jet that collided midair with an Army helicopter and crashed into the Potomac River on Wednesday night outside Washington.

U.S. Figure Skating, the American governing body for the sport, said that the skaters were returning from a training camp for top juvenile, intermediate, and novice skaters that follows the national figure skating championships, which were held in Wichita, Kan., over the weekend. Russian figure skaters — as well as other Russian citizens — were among those on the plane, said the Kremlin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov.

“We are devastated by this unspeakable tragedy and hold the victims’ families closely in our hearts,” said the statement from Alex Schauffler, the communications director for U.S. Figure Skating. As of early Thursday morning, no fatalities had been confirmed.

Jon Maravilla, an American pairs figure skater, told RIA Novosti, a Russian state news agency, that there were “about 14 figure skaters on the plane, not counting their parents and coaches.”

“Such a tragedy,” Mr. Maravilla said, adding that he did not want to give their names. U.S. Figure Skating did not confirm the number of its members on board and did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Russian state news agencies also reported that three former figure skaters from Russia were on the plane.

The U.S. national championships are held annually in different cities around the country. Leading up to the competition, skaters must compete in qualifying rounds at regional competitions. U.S. Figure Skating was founded in 1921 and is based in Colorado Springs. It comprises both amateur and professional skating clubs and has almost 900 member clubs.

“We are heartbroken to learn that figure skaters, along with their families, friends and coaches, are understood to be among those on board,” the International Skating Union said in a statement. “Our thoughts are with everyone affected by this tragedy. Figure skating is more than a sport — it’s a close-knit family — and we stand together.”

  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Texas Fight said:

 

A figure skater was denied from boarding the flight that ended in a fatal collision with a military helicopter near Washington, D.C.on Wednesday because his pet dog was too big, according to Russian state media.

Jon Maravilla told RIA Novosti that he was informed, during check-in, that his dog could not be carried on the flight because of size restrictions. Unable to board the plane, he departed by car.

A U.S. junior bronze medalist in pairs, Maravilla was scheduled to take American Airlines Flight 5342 from Wichita, Kansas to Washington, D.C.
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/figure-skater-jon-maravilla-reveals-he-missed-doomed-dc-flight-because-of-his-dog/

Hell the delay of one extra passenger boarding, plus adding luggage, plus a change in weight, and whatnot might have been enough to make it a close miss. 

Edited by SimonBolivar
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Based on this short piece, it sounds like several Russian citizens were on board, like, a significant share of the passengers.

U.S. and Russian Figure Skaters Among Passengers on Crashed Jet
Members of the U.S. figure skating community were traveling on the commercial jet that collided with a military helicopter outside Washington. They were returning from a skate camp in Kansas.

Figure skaters from the United States and Russia were among the 64 people onboard the commercial jet that collided midair with an Army helicopter and crashed into the Potomac River on Wednesday night outside Washington.

U.S. Figure Skating, the American governing body for the sport, said that the skaters were returning from a training camp for top juvenile, intermediate, and novice skaters that follows the national figure skating championships, which were held in Wichita, Kan., over the weekend. Russian figure skaters — as well as other Russian citizens — were among those on the plane, said the Kremlin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov.

“We are devastated by this unspeakable tragedy and hold the victims’ families closely in our hearts,” said the statement from Alex Schauffler, the communications director for U.S. Figure Skating. As of early Thursday morning, no fatalities had been confirmed.

Jon Maravilla, an American pairs figure skater, told RIA Novosti, a Russian state news agency, that there were “about 14 figure skaters on the plane, not counting their parents and coaches.”

“Such a tragedy,” Mr. Maravilla said, adding that he did not want to give their names. U.S. Figure Skating did not confirm the number of its members on board and did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Russian state news agencies also reported that three former figure skaters from Russia were on the plane.

The U.S. national championships are held annually in different cities around the country. Leading up to the competition, skaters must compete in qualifying rounds at regional competitions. U.S. Figure Skating was founded in 1921 and is based in Colorado Springs. It comprises both amateur and professional skating clubs and has almost 900 member clubs.

“We are heartbroken to learn that figure skaters, along with their families, friends and coaches, are understood to be among those on board,” the International Skating Union said in a statement. “Our thoughts are with everyone affected by this tragedy. Figure skating is more than a sport — it’s a close-knit family — and we stand together.”

That makes sense. Just a terrible tragedy. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean - there is a point here where the discussion isn't about the actual crash and just the surrounding media circus around the crash. there is a valid complaint that the thread has 2 clear divergent topics at this point, 1 that is the circus and 1 that is the event. 

The circus happens to be largely politically charged, well, because it happened in DC and a bunch of elected people are making this something they are getting in front of cameras about. 

I want to reiterate that there's a clear bifurcation happening here, and that it would be fine to keep this in DT, but split it into the media thread and the actual crash thread. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SameSame said:

Is there no kept voice recording for military aircraft when you are in civilian or non-combat areas?

I thought someone posted before, or images from Reddit, that the recordings were availble and indicated a conflict between the flight paths that the helicopter saw and the one the tower told them was happening, or something to that effect. From those posts it seemed to me that the cause might not be difficult to determine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...