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AA flight 5342 Crash Media Circus Thread


chainsaw

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For the HHS office (IHS) that I've been visiting this week, an all employee conference call was split between a few days ago and today and the first opportunity to make a decision was yesterday. So I don't think air traffic control people would have had time to leave. Plus, I don't really know how it works - After the resignation is made, does the person immediately walk out or does it have to go through their boss and HR and does paperwork have to be filled out? It just sounds impossible for someone to have already left yesterday, considering the typical red-tape, but I don't know for sure.

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1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Yes and I heard about it 4 days ago. So the notice was ~6 days in January and 6 days in February. I would say most of the talk among employees in federal circles started yesterday. So I doubt very many ATCs had already put in their notice yesterday and walked out of their jobs. The number of employees doing that at the airport in question was probably zero when the accident occurred.

Yep.  Feb. 6.  I don't know about the rest of that.  I was responding to the idea that it was "weeks" not whatever it might have to do with ATC employees.  Just a date (next week).  My friend who got the letter (DOJ) got it on Tuesday.  Not sure if your hearing about it coincided with actual receipt or they sent out this mass digital resign blast in segments (truly).   I doubt any ATC workers took the bait.  But in my friend's case, it was a short deadline period and, suffice it to say, it hasn't improved her morale.  Making federal employees feel worthless doesn't make them better employees.  But that wasn't my point.  But maybe it should have been.

Edited by dcbc
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12 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yes and I heard about it 4 days ago. So the notice was ~6 days in January and 6 days in February. I would say most of the talk among employees in federal circles started yesterday. So I doubt very many ATCs had already put in their notice yesterday and walked out of their jobs. The number of employees doing that at the airport in question was probably zero when the accident occurred.

The tower at DCA is currently staffed with a headcount of 19 when the staffing model calls for 30. They’re already understaffed by more than a third.

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Just now, royiv said:

The tower at DCA is currently staffed with a headcount of 19 when the staffing model calls for 30. They’re already understaffed by more than a third.

 

And how many fewer employees were there 24hrs ago when the crash occurred because of the buyout that was probably officially offered on Tuesday?

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Just now, Bevo said:

 

And how many fewer employees were there 24hrs ago when the crash occurred because of the buyout that was probably officially offered on Tuesday?

Again, not a buyout, and I don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make here. We already know what the cause of the accident was. Our president told us earlier today and subsequently signed an EO this afternoon that assigned blame.

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2 hours ago, BearMace said:

What an absolute clownshow. I thought it was embarrassing the way he tweets. Now every insane deflection is going to be put into an executive memo that he finds out what's in as he's signing? 

It's what you can expect when you elect a news website comment section to the highest office.

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2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Again, not a buyout, and I don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make here. We already know what the cause of the accident was. Our president told us earlier today and subsequently signed an EO this afternoon that assigned blame.

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

per AOC ....

I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too.

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

The point(s):

1. Federal employees, including federally employed ATC (some towers are staffed with private controllers) received a letter this week offering deferred resignation. ATC is already woefully understaffed and overworked nationwide. Some have questioned the wisdom of offering deferred resignation to a highly specialized workgroup with a critical safety mission that is already overworked and understaffed. The DCA tower was understaffed at the time of the accident. There is supposed to be one controller talking to helos and one talking to fixed wing aircraft. At the time of the collision, one controller was talking to both. 
2. Trump disbanded all advisory committees within DHS, including the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee. In addition, he fired the head of TSA and the head of the FAA resigned prior to Trump’s inauguration so there are a lot of vacancies in the areas that have oversight of safety in aviation at the moment.

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We should be increasing funding on transportation. Our infrastructure is awful compared to our peers. We desperately need to be investing in it.

That’s libtard socialist shit. What we NEED to be doing is carving it up and handing it out as patronage rewards to Trump loyalists who can slash services while maximizing their profits. That’s how you ‘merica.
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2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Trump disbanded all advisory committees within DHS, including the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee.

Just out of curiosity - please explain your second point quoted above -

 

Homeland Security is trying to prevent terrorist attacks?  What is the actual mission? If it is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, wouldn't the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee deal with air safety to prevent terrorist attacks?

Wouldn't the FAA be responsible for preventing flying mishaps and catastrophes?

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3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Just out of curiosity - please explain your second point quoted above -

 

Homeland Security is trying to prevent terrorist attacks?  What is the actual mission? If it is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, wouldn't the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee deal with air safety to prevent terrorist attacks?

Wouldn't the FAA be responsible for preventing flying mishaps and catastrophes?

The point was exactly what I wrote. I made zero commentary except to say that Trump disbanded the committee and that there are other key positions charged with oversight of the aviation community that are open. That’s all. That’s the point. 

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That’s libtard socialist shit. What we NEED to be doing is carving it up and handing it out as patronage rewards to Trump loyalists who can slash services while maximizing their profits. That’s how you ‘merica.

I want to privatize those public bridges. Sure it will cost you more and I will need government funding to do the repairs, but you’ll get to pay me 3x for the same thing you already have!
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3 minutes ago, royiv said:

The point was exactly what I wrote. I made zero commentary except to say that Trump disbanded the committee and that there are other key positions charged with oversight of the aviation community that are open. That’s all. That’s the point. 

It looks like neither of of your statements or the tweet in question have anything to do with the crash yesterday, but are just general statements that Trump is making a bad decision cutting things related to aviation. Fine.

However, the tweet tries to tie its comments to the crash yesterday. None of the points had any impact on the crash.

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Just now, Bevo said:

It looks like neither of of your statements or the tweet in question have anything to do with the crash yesterday, but are just general statements that Trump is making a bad decision cutting things related to aviation. Fine.

However, the tweet tries to tie its comments to the crash yesterday. None of the points had any impact on the crash.

We know it was DEI that caused the accident, but overworked and understaffed ATC could have been a contributing factor.

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54 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

1. I'd argue that the difference between 1 week and the perhaps 12 days is completely irrelevant. The rhetorical points stands: there was very little time given to consider this offer (or whatever you want to call it). 

2. The tweet literally used quotes around the term buyout. The whole point of that is to suggest that it isn't really a buyout. Trying to argue that makes the tweet wrong is fucking asinine. 

3. What part of the tweet is wrong about the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash? I don't see any specific reference in the tweet. More critically, I don't think you have any knowledge of what affect it had on staffing, so I'm unclear why you believe you're in a position to judge. 

Here is her statement again for reference:

"I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too."

In short, I think you're talking out your ass. 

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3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

1. I'd argue that the difference between 1 week and the perhaps 12 days is completely irrelevant. The rhetorical points stands: there was very little time given to consider this offer (or whatever you want to call it). 

2. The tweet literally used quotes around the term buyout. The whole point of that is to suggest that it isn't really a buyout. Trying to argue that makes the tweet wrong is fucking asinine. 

3. What part of the tweet is wrong about the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash? I don't see any specific reference in the tweet. More critically, I don't think you have any knowledge of what affect it had on staffing, so I'm unclear why you believe you're in a position to judge. 

Here is her statement again for reference:

"I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too."

In short, I think you're talking out your ass. 

She's not a representative of LaGuardia Airport or the workers.  She's a representative of their district.  So checkmate!

Edited by dcbc
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1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I want to privatize those public bridges. Sure it will cost you more and I will need government funding to do the repairs, but you’ll get to pay me 3x for the same thing you already have!

Surly needs to get in on this.  Gotta be some bridges along 35 to Dallas that we can take over.  Shit, TXDOT has been rebuilding the same fucking highway for decades.

Better yet, bridges that cross into Oklahoma.  Have some one-way tolls, with a little extra fee for the OU games and when the Cowboys are playing at Jerryworld.

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