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AA flight 5342 Crash Media Circus Thread


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For the HHS office (IHS) that I've been visiting this week, an all employee conference call was split between a few days ago and today and the first opportunity to make a decision was yesterday. So I don't think air traffic control people would have had time to leave. Plus, I don't really know how it works - After the resignation is made, does the person immediately walk out or does it have to go through their boss and HR and does paperwork have to be filled out? It just sounds impossible for someone to have already left yesterday, considering the typical red-tape, but I don't know for sure.

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1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Yes and I heard about it 4 days ago. So the notice was ~6 days in January and 6 days in February. I would say most of the talk among employees in federal circles started yesterday. So I doubt very many ATCs had already put in their notice yesterday and walked out of their jobs. The number of employees doing that at the airport in question was probably zero when the accident occurred.

Yep.  Feb. 6.  I don't know about the rest of that.  I was responding to the idea that it was "weeks" not whatever it might have to do with ATC employees.  Just a date (next week).  My friend who got the letter (DOJ) got it on Tuesday.  Not sure if your hearing about it coincided with actual receipt or they sent out this mass digital resign blast in segments (truly).   I doubt any ATC workers took the bait.  But in my friend's case, it was a short deadline period and, suffice it to say, it hasn't improved her morale.  Making federal employees feel worthless doesn't make them better employees.  But that wasn't my point.  But maybe it should have been.

Edited by dcbc
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12 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yes and I heard about it 4 days ago. So the notice was ~6 days in January and 6 days in February. I would say most of the talk among employees in federal circles started yesterday. So I doubt very many ATCs had already put in their notice yesterday and walked out of their jobs. The number of employees doing that at the airport in question was probably zero when the accident occurred.

The tower at DCA is currently staffed with a headcount of 19 when the staffing model calls for 30. They’re already understaffed by more than a third.

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Just now, royiv said:

The tower at DCA is currently staffed with a headcount of 19 when the staffing model calls for 30. They’re already understaffed by more than a third.

 

And how many fewer employees were there 24hrs ago when the crash occurred because of the buyout that was probably officially offered on Tuesday?

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Just now, Bevo said:

 

And how many fewer employees were there 24hrs ago when the crash occurred because of the buyout that was probably officially offered on Tuesday?

Again, not a buyout, and I don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make here. We already know what the cause of the accident was. Our president told us earlier today and subsequently signed an EO this afternoon that assigned blame.

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2 hours ago, BearMace said:

What an absolute clownshow. I thought it was embarrassing the way he tweets. Now every insane deflection is going to be put into an executive memo that he finds out what's in as he's signing? 

It's what you can expect when you elect a news website comment section to the highest office.

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2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Again, not a buyout, and I don’t understand the point that you’re trying to make here. We already know what the cause of the accident was. Our president told us earlier today and subsequently signed an EO this afternoon that assigned blame.

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

per AOC ....

I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too.

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

The point(s):

1. Federal employees, including federally employed ATC (some towers are staffed with private controllers) received a letter this week offering deferred resignation. ATC is already woefully understaffed and overworked nationwide. Some have questioned the wisdom of offering deferred resignation to a highly specialized workgroup with a critical safety mission that is already overworked and understaffed. The DCA tower was understaffed at the time of the accident. There is supposed to be one controller talking to helos and one talking to fixed wing aircraft. At the time of the collision, one controller was talking to both. 
2. Trump disbanded all advisory committees within DHS, including the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee. In addition, he fired the head of TSA and the head of the FAA resigned prior to Trump’s inauguration so there are a lot of vacancies in the areas that have oversight of safety in aviation at the moment.

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2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Trump disbanded all advisory committees within DHS, including the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee.

Just out of curiosity - please explain your second point quoted above -

 

Homeland Security is trying to prevent terrorist attacks?  What is the actual mission? If it is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, wouldn't the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee deal with air safety to prevent terrorist attacks?

Wouldn't the FAA be responsible for preventing flying mishaps and catastrophes?

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3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Just out of curiosity - please explain your second point quoted above -

 

Homeland Security is trying to prevent terrorist attacks?  What is the actual mission? If it is trying to prevent terrorist attacks, wouldn't the Aviation Safety Advisory Committee deal with air safety to prevent terrorist attacks?

Wouldn't the FAA be responsible for preventing flying mishaps and catastrophes?

The point was exactly what I wrote. I made zero commentary except to say that Trump disbanded the committee and that there are other key positions charged with oversight of the aviation community that are open. That’s all. That’s the point. 

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That’s libtard socialist shit. What we NEED to be doing is carving it up and handing it out as patronage rewards to Trump loyalists who can slash services while maximizing their profits. That’s how you ‘merica.

I want to privatize those public bridges. Sure it will cost you more and I will need government funding to do the repairs, but you’ll get to pay me 3x for the same thing you already have!
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3 minutes ago, royiv said:

The point was exactly what I wrote. I made zero commentary except to say that Trump disbanded the committee and that there are other key positions charged with oversight of the aviation community that are open. That’s all. That’s the point. 

It looks like neither of of your statements or the tweet in question have anything to do with the crash yesterday, but are just general statements that Trump is making a bad decision cutting things related to aviation. Fine.

However, the tweet tries to tie its comments to the crash yesterday. None of the points had any impact on the crash.

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Just now, Bevo said:

It looks like neither of of your statements or the tweet in question have anything to do with the crash yesterday, but are just general statements that Trump is making a bad decision cutting things related to aviation. Fine.

However, the tweet tries to tie its comments to the crash yesterday. None of the points had any impact on the crash.

We know it was DEI that caused the accident, but overworked and understaffed ATC could have been a contributing factor.

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54 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Why are you arguing and what are you arguing if you didn't understand the point? If you go back a page my comments were to a tweet that misstated facts -

Two people are telling me it isn't a buyout - Well that is one thing that the tweet got wrong then. The tweet got the one week wrong. The tweet got wrong the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash. I don't know what happened to the Aviation Safety Committee last week so if you want, you can fact check that statement as well. Otherwise, I guess the tweet was great???

 

1. I'd argue that the difference between 1 week and the perhaps 12 days is completely irrelevant. The rhetorical points stands: there was very little time given to consider this offer (or whatever you want to call it). 

2. The tweet literally used quotes around the term buyout. The whole point of that is to suggest that it isn't really a buyout. Trying to argue that makes the tweet wrong is fucking asinine. 

3. What part of the tweet is wrong about the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash? I don't see any specific reference in the tweet. More critically, I don't think you have any knowledge of what affect it had on staffing, so I'm unclear why you believe you're in a position to judge. 

Here is her statement again for reference:

"I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too."

In short, I think you're talking out your ass. 

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3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

1. I'd argue that the difference between 1 week and the perhaps 12 days is completely irrelevant. The rhetorical points stands: there was very little time given to consider this offer (or whatever you want to call it). 

2. The tweet literally used quotes around the term buyout. The whole point of that is to suggest that it isn't really a buyout. Trying to argue that makes the tweet wrong is fucking asinine. 

3. What part of the tweet is wrong about the impact on the ATC staffing at the time of the crash? I don't see any specific reference in the tweet. More critically, I don't think you have any knowledge of what affect it had on staffing, so I'm unclear why you believe you're in a position to judge. 

Here is her statement again for reference:

"I represent LaGuardia Airport as well as workers for JFK. Trump gutted the Aviation Safety committee last week. Air traffic controllers - already understaffed - got Trump’s “buyout” this week with a 1 week ultimatum to decide. It’s not DEI - it’s him. And Elon too."

In short, I think you're talking out your ass. 

She's not a representative of LaGuardia Airport or the workers.  She's a representative of their district.  So checkmate!

Edited by dcbc
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1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I want to privatize those public bridges. Sure it will cost you more and I will need government funding to do the repairs, but you’ll get to pay me 3x for the same thing you already have!

Surly needs to get in on this.  Gotta be some bridges along 35 to Dallas that we can take over.  Shit, TXDOT has been rebuilding the same fucking highway for decades.

Better yet, bridges that cross into Oklahoma.  Have some one-way tolls, with a little extra fee for the OU games and when the Cowboys are playing at Jerryworld.

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11 hours ago, royiv said:

We should be increasing funding on transportation. Our infrastructure is awful compared to our peers. We desperately need to be investing in it.

Friend who works for engineering firm in Oklahoma just said the cuts they are planning on making in the name of getting rid of DEI gonna cost them over 200 rural bridge projects they could have bid on. Asked him if it was worth it to get rid of "woke" DEI... 

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14 hours ago, Hate said:

It’s not getting “fee fees” hurt, which is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard BTW.  it’s a deliberate attempt to avoid hearing what any politician has to say about anything. I don’t watch the news unless there is some “newsworthy” event that happens. I have no idea what Trump says about anything until someone posts it here in a DT thread. I don’t give a damn what politicians, any of them, have to say about anything but it gets dragged into every goddamn thread on this site. 

That’s because what politicians say and do can be vital components causing and or influencing current events, and current events cannot be properly understood without that context. 
 

Your wanting to keep your head in the stand should not interfere with our ability to access the information necessary to understand many of the topics that fall under the umbrella of current events 

 

maybe stick to threads about how awesome our pets are or which celebrities just died. 

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9 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Friend who works for engineering firm in Oklahoma just said the cuts they are planning on making in the name of getting rid of DEI gonna cost them over 200 rural bridge projects they could have bid on. Asked him if it was worth it to get rid of "woke" DEI... 

so in 2026 when a bunch of shit falls down, they’ll have to blame the immigrants. Oh wait no, they’ve been deported. The Jews and gay agenda, I guess 

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15 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

Friend who works for engineering firm in Oklahoma just said the cuts they are planning on making in the name of getting rid of DEI gonna cost them over 200 rural bridge projects they could have bid on. Asked him if it was worth it to get rid of "woke" DEI... 

They hate all thing trans so transportation is off the board for funding.

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14 hours ago, Hate said:

It’s not getting “fee fees” hurt, which is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve heard BTW.  it’s a deliberate attempt to avoid hearing what any politician has to say about anything. I don’t watch the news unless there is some “newsworthy” event that happens. I have no idea what Trump says about anything until someone posts it here in a DT thread. I don’t give a damn what politicians, any of them, have to say about anything but it gets dragged into every goddamn thread on this site. 

Full 100% honesty I really do wish I could burry my head in the sand as deep as you do sometimes, but I'm cursed with curiosity of how the world actually works and how the sausage gets made and unfortunately, it's a largely politics...

Edited by Evil Bill Obrien
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12 hours ago, Bevo said:

Yes and I heard about it 4 days ago. So the notice was ~6 days in January and 6 days in February. I would say most of the talk among employees in federal circles started yesterday. So I doubt very many ATCs had already put in their notice yesterday and walked out of their jobs. The number of employees doing that at the airport in question was probably zero when the accident occurred.

There have been rumors of this since before Trump took office. You don’t think there is increased stress among workers such as air traffic controllers on top of their already being grossly overworked and short staffed? Come on man

 

and the idea that 6% of the federal workforce works full time in office is ludicrous. Postal service and healthcare workers alone likely make up more than 6%
 

consider any information coming out of this “government” bullshit. Anyone not 100% loyal to Trump is actively being purged. 

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4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

There have been rumors of this since before Trump took office. You don’t think there is increased stress among workers such as air traffic controllers on top of their already being grossly overworked and short staffed? Come on man

 

and the idea that 6% of the federal workforce works full time in office is ludicrous. Postal service and healthcare workers alone likely make up more than 6%
 

consider any information coming out of this “government” bullshit. Anyone not 100% loyal to Trump is actively being purged. 

That "only 6% come in full time" is a tortured statistic. It originated from this report

https://www.ernst.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/6_update.pdf

Which in turn sourced its "6%" figure from a non-scientific survey conducted by Federal News Network

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-report/2024/04/survey-feds-question-the-why-behind-return-to-office-push/?readmore=1

Nevermind that the actual originating peice of this mythical and bullshit figure that's repeated mindlessly by useful idiots is rejected as soon as it's introduced in the article!

Of the survey respondents, about 30% said they work entirely remotely, 6% work entirely in-person and 64% were working on a hybrid schedule — a mix of in-person work and telework. The breakdown of telework versus onsite work for survey respondents differs significantly from the actual breakdown for the federal workforce overall. According to the latest data from the Office of Management and Budget, out of 2.2 million federal employees, 54% hold jobs that require them to work completely onsite, while the 46% of feds who are eligible for telework spend an average of 60% of their work hours in-person. Just 10% of feds work remotely.

Edited by Captainant
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12 hours ago, Bevo said:

For the HHS office (IHS) that I've been visiting this week, an all employee conference call was split between a few days ago and today and the first opportunity to make a decision was yesterday. So I don't think air traffic control people would have had time to leave. Plus, I don't really know how it works - After the resignation is made, does the person immediately walk out or does it have to go through their boss and HR and does paperwork have to be filled out? It just sounds impossible for someone to have already left yesterday, considering the typical red-tape, but I don't know for sure.

They were already short staffed and working 60 hour weeks prior to all this. Plane crashes aren't the result of one thing. It’s a perfect storm of smaller factors. Stress and being overworked are 2 huge ones with ATC. Literally the main reason for the strike that Reagan broke

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16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Postal service and healthcare workers alone likely make up more than 6%

Judging by the frequency my mail shows up in my mailbox, I think my mailman is working from home. It usually arrives 3-4 days after Informed Delivery tells me it is going to arrive. 

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15 minutes ago, Deej said:

Judging by the frequency my mail shows up in my mailbox, I think my mailman is working from home. It usually arrives 3-4 days after Informed Delivery tells me it is going to arrive. 

Visited the future in-laws and family in Florida (yep...here it comes) for Christmas and my fiancés two uncles had never heard of informed delivery which A. blew my mind because one of them is fairly tech savvy and orders shit online all the time...but more importantly B. they could not no matter how we explained it be convinced that Informed Delivery wasn't some sort of big government conspiracy/boondoggle. It was absolutely astonishing that they wanted no part of it and thought it was big brother spying on their mail... they legit both went real life Dale Gribble

Hanging Out King Of The Hill GIF

Edited by Evil Bill Obrien
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ability to edit above post expired, should have read like this:

at 5am bbc reported the below; US MSM media remains silent 4 hours later

atlanta journal constitution named o'hara yesterday afternoon but CNN BASED IN ATLANTA has an embargo on both names, pics, etc.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/gwinnett-high-school-grad-among-soldiers-killed-in-dc-crash/H2QMATWGIRHKPN6ML3Q63HE2YA/

Ryan O'Hara

Ryan O'Hara, 29, was the crew chief of the Black Hawk helicopter that collided with the passenger plane, according to CBS News.

He leaves behind a wife and one-year-old son, his local Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) program said in a social media post confirming his death.

O'Hara is "fondly remembered as a guy who would fix things around the ROTC gym as well as a vital member of the rifle team," the post said.

Ryan O'Hara

 image.thumb.png.5a67cb11ddbf5bc538b333b98c43d750.png

 

Andrew Eaves

Mississippi Governor Tate Reeves confirmed that Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Eaves was killed in the collision.

Paying tribute to her husband, Carrie Eaves confirmed he was one of the pilots of the Blackhawk helicopter.

"We ask that you pray for our family and friends and for all the other families that are suffering today. We ask for peace while we grieve," she wrote on social media.

Andrew Eaves:

e865ac70-dfa5-11ef-a956-3f63f74ae236.jpg.thumb.webp.fb963aac6ca45a5b65519b8d20a66d82.webp

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former blackhawk pilot says 3 holes in the cheese:

1 - POLICY ERROR: the mh-60 was down a crew member - should have had 4 not 3 crew - specifically should have a 2nd crew chief to clear visual on both sides

2 - PILOT ERROR: mh-60 was supposed to be at 200 feet not 350+ where the collision occurred - was this a result of using night vision?

3 - ATC ERROR: dca tower did not ask MH-60 if they had the rj at 5'oclock - mh-60 field of view (forward) is prima-facie they were looking at the wrong plane when responded affirmative that they had the traffic they needed to avoid - new collision video proves this - zero evasive maneuvers at all

+++

not voiced by the ex-pilot is the known tasking issue with 1 not 2 assigned controllers to the event in the dca tower

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/black-hawk-helicopter-pilot-elizabeth-mccormick-plane-crash-digvid

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