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AA flight 5342 Crash Media Circus Thread


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15 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

former blackhawk pilot says 3 holes in the cheese:

1 - POLICY ERROR: the mh-60 was down a crew member - should have had 4 not 3 crew - specifically should have a 2nd crew chief to clear visual on both sides

2 - PILOT ERROR: mh-60 was supposed to be at 200 feet not 350+ where the collision occurred - was this a result of using night vision?

3 - ATC ERROR: dca tower did not ask MH-60 if they had the rj at 5'oclock - mh-60 field of view (forward) is prima-facie they were looking at the wrong plane when responded affirmative that they had the traffic they needed to avoid - new collision video proves this - zero evasive maneuvers at all

+++

not voiced by the ex-pilot is the known tasking issue with 1 not 2 assigned controllers to the event in the dca tower

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/black-hawk-helicopter-pilot-elizabeth-mccormick-plane-crash-digvid

Can we trust her as an expert? She’s a DEI Blackhawk pilot.

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16 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

MAGAt friend is full in on theory that one of the MH-60 pilots was trans now...with no real proof of course...like what hell are we even doing as a society...

I don’t know how some of y’all still hang around people that fucking stupid or brainwashed. Life is short and getting shorter. 

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19 minutes ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

MAGAt friend is full in on theory that one of the MH-60 pilots was trans now...with no real proof of course...like what hell are we even doing as a society...

Replicating the fall of the Roman Empire

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You've admitted to not following the news, so you may not know this, but it was your president who brought the DEI bullshit to the table. And, of course, it should be no surprise at this point, as we've all already had front-row tickets to his chaotic, absurd, and malevolent circus before. If you voted for this carnival barker, don't complain about the ensuing Sturm und Drang. The angry members of the audience are, after all, just part of the show.

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1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i stand corrected, fox did report this yesterday; can't find a link to it on their main page:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dc-plane-crash-disaster-crew-chief-1-pilot-doomed-army-black-hawk-helicopter-identified

they appear to have suppressed it on their main site

"cnn.com" "andrew eaves" returns null

Yeah, but see, the pilot has a friend whose cousin's landlord's brother once saw part of a drag show, so, now you understand that CLEARLY DEI and the homogays caused this crash.

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My apologies for asking this, as it may have already come up, but I've been away from the thread since last night and haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Now I'm reading elsewhere people saying that not only was this FAA DEI initiative active during the first Trump term - but he actually launched it. Can anyone verify that?

Edited by wood
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7 minutes ago, wood said:

My apologies for asking this, as it may have already come up, but I've been away from the thread since laight and haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Now I'm reading elsewhere people saying that not only was this FAA DEI initiative active during the first Trump term - but he actually launched it. Can anyone verify that?

 

does it really matter?

the training program to be a controller is long, and rigorous

no one gets hired much less gets in the chair without being qualified and that includes the chemical and psychological testing regime that pilots go through, plus background checks, an initial deployment or 3 to a bfe tower before getting assigned to a tower at a large field, etc.

it's a meritocracy and no one in the chair was "hired" in to the job; even ex-military controllers have to re-train and re-calibrate for civilian ops

regardless of race, religion, sex, non-sex, whatever, every controller has been through the same program and they didn't start training before clearing all of the same hurdles to even get admitted

obviously the rj crew have no complicity and don't form one of the holes in the cheese

that leaves......  mh-60 crew for "dei blame" and, well, we're missing 1 name......

+++


2 hr 27 min ago
Air traffic control is a “meritocracy,” says former FAA air traffic manager
From CNN’s Zoe Sottile

The air traffic control profession is a “meritocracy,” according to Michael McCormick, a former FAA air traffic manager and associate professor in air traffic management at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

“Only the best can go through the rigorous selection program, the screening program and then one-to-five-year training program prior to receiving their certification,” McCormick told CNN Friday morning.

McCormick’s comments come after President Donald Trump blamed DEI policies for the collision.

McCormick, who shut down New York City air traffic on 9/11, also said it was common practice for one air traffic controller to work two different tower positions.

“In this instance, it was actually a good thing, because now you have one controller who’s actually talking to and controlling both of the aircraft,” he said.

“Otherwise, if it was a separate controller, then the two controllers would have to constantly coordinate back and forth about what is happening and what they’re choosing to do.”

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My apologies for asking this, as it may have already come up, but I've been away from the thread since last night and haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Now I'm reading elsewhere people saying that not only was this FAA DEI initiative active during the first Trump term - but he actually launched it. Can anyone verify that?

Somebody else can confirm but I think the initiative started in 2013 on Obama’s watch. But Trump did nothing in four years to change it.
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2 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

 

You've admitted to not following the news, so you may not know this, but it was your president who brought the DEI bullshit to the table. And, of course, it should be no surprise at this point, as we've all already had front-row tickets to his chaotic, absurd, and malevolent circus before. If you voted for this carnival barker, don't complain about the ensuing Sturm und Drang. The angry members of the audience are, after all, just part of the show.

Once again, I did not vote for him. I cannot be more clear on this. He is not “my” president.

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51 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

 

does it really matter?

the training program to be a controller is long, and rigorous

no one gets hired much less gets in the chair without being qualified and that includes the chemical and psychological testing regime that pilots go through, plus background checks, an initial deployment or 3 to a bfe tower before getting assigned to a tower at a large field, etc.

it's a meritocracy and no one in the chair was "hired" in to the job; even ex-military controllers have to re-train and re-calibrate for civilian ops

regardless of race, religion, sex, non-sex, whatever, every controller has been through the same program and they didn't start training before clearing all of the same hurdles to even get admitted

obviously the rj crew have no complicity and don't form one of the holes in the cheese

that leaves......  mh-60 crew for "dei blame" and, well, we're missing 1 name......

+++


2 hr 27 min ago
Air traffic control is a “meritocracy,” says former FAA air traffic manager
From CNN’s Zoe Sottile

The air traffic control profession is a “meritocracy,” according to Michael McCormick, a former FAA air traffic manager and associate professor in air traffic management at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

“Only the best can go through the rigorous selection program, the screening program and then one-to-five-year training program prior to receiving their certification,” McCormick told CNN Friday morning.

McCormick’s comments come after President Donald Trump blamed DEI policies for the collision.

McCormick, who shut down New York City air traffic on 9/11, also said it was common practice for one air traffic controller to work two different tower positions.

“In this instance, it was actually a good thing, because now you have one controller who’s actually talking to and controlling both of the aircraft,” he said.

“Otherwise, if it was a separate controller, then the two controllers would have to constantly coordinate back and forth about what is happening and what they’re choosing to do.”

I was merely thinking more in terms of Trump complaining about, villifying, and blaming the Biden admin for a program that he not only let run through his term but that he possibly initiated.

I agree 100% that DEI is not a problem, especially in the FAA where, as you say, the training is extremely demanding and it's a meritocracy. If you get through that training, you're good.

Some context re: DEI and ATC, as you say, is important imho. Whether minority applicants were being favored over white males or not becomes less relevant once we acknowledge that the FAA cannot simply go out and hire as many controller trainees as it wants to or needs to at a given time. Like every other agency, they have budget constraints set by politicians. I myself took the ATC test in the 90s and despite scoring 100% on my first try, I was never hired. My mentor who was a high-ranking ATC in Houston at IAH said diversity hiring contributed to me not being hired, but stressed that the applicants who were being hired also scored as highly as I did. Did I like not being hired? No, but I really have no problem with someone else getting 'my' spot if they also scored well on the exam, and I know what the training environment for that job is like. It's extremely intense, as is the job.

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3 hours ago, Evil Bill Obrien said:

MAGAt friend is full in on theory that one of the MH-60 pilots was trans now...with no real proof of course...like what hell are we even doing as a society...

quashed

 A trans National Guard pilot was falsely accused of flying the helicopter in the fatal plane collision
Liam Reilly
By Liam Reilly, CNN
4 minute read
Published 2:20 PM EST, Fri January 31, 2025

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/media/trans-pilot-black-hawk-crash/index.html

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most of the presser so far has been dca dudes

questions 50% on bodies/recovery

50% on heliroutes 1 & 4 and resumption of ops, the 2 shorter crosswind strips 4/22 & 15/33 are closed, movements reduced, probably for a week

"most recovery options today focused on the mh-60"

"staffing of tower faa"

"closure routes 1 & 4 is faa"

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punt to faa

punt to ntsb

punt to faa

punt to feds

punt to feds

punt to faa & congress

confidence in location of remaining bodies: "we think we know where they are", "believe when they remove the aircraft they will get clarity", "hasn't been decided how they are going to get the wreckage out"

23 bodies not yet recovered

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Not that it matters but I wonder if the AA passengers were killed on impact or drowned or froze before being able to be rescued in the Potomac. I assume the Blackhawk passengers were most likely killed on impact based on the fireball.

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AND HERE WE GO:
 

 “At the request of the family, the name of the third Soldier will not be released at this time,” the Army said.

Though the third soldier’s name is not being released at the request of her family, CNN was told she was co-piloting the Black Hawk and had about 500 flight hours.

Edited by Hagbard Celine
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5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Not that it matters but I wonder if the AA passengers were killed on impact or drowned or froze before being able to be rescued in the Potomac. I assume the Blackhawk passengers were most likely killed on impact based on the fireball.

surviving an inverted tumbling impact in to any surface at 161mph (140kts, landing speed of this machine) is unpossible

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33 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

AND HERE WE GO:
 

 “At the request of the family, the name of the third Soldier will not be released at this time,” the Army said.

Though the third soldier’s name is not being released at the request of her family, CNN was told she was co-piloting the Black Hawk and had about 500 flight hours.

Yep.  100% here we go.  Because the only way that a woman, when we all know that women just don't have the, uh, "disposition" for higher order thinking, should be flying a chopper is DEI!

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1 hour ago, wood said:

My apologies for asking this, as it may have already come up, but I've been away from the thread since last night and haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Now I'm reading elsewhere people saying that not only was this FAA DEI initiative active during the first Trump term - but he actually launched it. Can anyone verify that?

Gotta thank Mrs C-Man (and her source, Jessica Yellen) that yes, the DEI initiative for the FAA was started under Obama BUT in Turnip 1.0 he started a hiring initiative using those same parameters to fill air traffic control positions. But I'm sure he's forgotten that -- or had no idea that he did that because, after all, he is this guy:

200w.gif?cid=6c09b952u31aprlg3ga6vvn5kkl

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Trusty Kaitlan Collins (about whom I'm on record as saying it's probably a rare occasion that she isn't the smartest person in the room) lays out the truth about DEI in the FAA:

Excellent report: https://x.com/kaitlancollins/status/1885318888235176438

(Sorry. She hasn't posted it on bsky. Hopefully the way I posted that link is ok. I assume it's aight since it didn't embed like they used to.)

Edited by wood
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5 hours ago, wood said:

My apologies for asking this, as it may have already come up, but I've been away from the thread since last night and haven't had a chance to catch up yet. Now I'm reading elsewhere people saying that not only was this FAA DEI initiative active during the first Trump term - but he actually launched it. Can anyone verify that?

He did not launch it.  The FAA published guidelines trying to recruit more people with targeted disabilities in Feb 2013.  He kept it going in his first administration.

Elon has recently been compiling about the FAA DEI policy.  I suspect that Trump had no idea that FAA DEI existed and didn't care that this was going on during his first term.  But now Elon has Trump's ear, so we are all talking about it.


Some reading:

https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/01/15/faa-dei-initiatives/

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/us/trump-dei-plane-crash-fact-check.html

From The NY Times article, on the effectiveness of these efforts:
 

Quote

Annual reports from the F.A.A. show a slight, but not significant, increase in diversity. In 2016, 58.9 percent of its work force consisted of white men and 0.7 percent had targeted disabilities. In 2020, under Mr. Trump, those percentages remained similar at 57.4 percent and 1.1 percent. And in 2023, under Mr. Biden, those percentages were 55.3 percent and 2 percent.

and

Quote

 

Census data compiled by Deloitte and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology shows that the proportion of white air traffic controllers has decreased slightly from 79 percent from 2020 to 73 percent in 2022.

And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 4.2 percent of pilots were women and 1.4 percent were Black or Hispanic in 2002; 6.2 percent were women and 5.1 were nonwhite in 2017, Mr. Trump’s first year in office; 5.6 percent and 6 percent in 2020; and 8.8 percent and 7.6 percent in 2023.

 

 

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