Barry Sanders - Great Read On His Untouchable '88 Season

[Vic Mackey 46936]

8 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

As amazing as Barry was, I think I would have preferred Emmitt for the reliable 4 yards min every.single.time 

Again, I'm biased, and that bias also knows about Emmitt's 3 rings. 

I'd rather watch Barry play, I'd rather Emmitt on my team.. I think.. 

Agreed. Both were great in their own way. And I enjoyed watching both. But Emmitt was my preference for my team. I don't think Barry would have given us the separated shoulder game against the Giants.

I am glad I got to see both of them play, though. I was too young to remember Barry in college. It's crazy that him and Thurman were on the same team. Crazy talent to have in one backfield.

[Bozo_Casanova 26281]

"He's a flash in the pan."

-My Dad, 1989

[Vic Mackey 46936]

14 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Emmitt had a HOF O-Line. Barry would have loved to have had those road graders.

I will refer to Nate Newton when it comes to this argument. Emmitt had a huge part in why that OL was as great as they were in his words. Just because you have a great OL doesn't mean shit if you aren't talented. We have seen that over and over again. When Emmitt held out, his backup was terrible but it was the same OL. It goes both ways. When these debates rise up, people immediately point to the OL and trying to demean what Emmitt did. That was a 2 way street. Emmitt made that OL as much as they made him. If Joe Blow RB ran behind them, they are not considered as great as they were with Emmitt.

Emmitt was better for the Cowboys than Barry would have been. And Barry was better for Detroit than Emmitt would have been. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Vic Mackey

[Vic Mackey 46936]

10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

That game against the Giants is likely the one, emotionally, that leads me to say I think I would pick him for my team. 

That and the fact that, like Barry, he was humble and avoided the bullshit so many other players got into. Can say the same for Troy. (Thanks Miami!) 

Yep. Barry will always be a more flashy RB than Emmitt but flashy isn't always going to equate to wins. Barry played with some good offenses when at Detroit. The narrative that it was just all him from some is not true. Detroit had good teams in those days. They kicked Dallas' ass when Dallas was just getting started in 1991.

Emmitt will always be above Barry for me because of that game alone. 

['stache 21774]

38 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Agreed. Both were great in their own way. And I enjoyed watching both. But Emmitt was my preference for my team. I don't think Barry would have given us the separated shoulder game against the Giants.

I am glad I got to see both of them play, though. I was too young to remember Barry in college. It's crazy that him and Thurman were on the same team. Crazy talent to have in one backfield.

Emmitt was a great downhill runner, and worked perfectly with that oline.  Barry was not that type of runner.  He would have done fine anywhere, but Detroit was a better fit for his style.

[hpslugga 4044]

1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

And a HOF QB/WR combo to complement the running game.  You couldn't just game plan to stop Emmitt or Troy and Michael would eat you up... (not to mention Novacek, Alvin Harper, etc.)

I don't think it's a stretch to say that every team who played the Lions during Barry's time had a defensive game plan that was singularly focused on slowing him down.

Yep. They ran an offensive system that 27 NFL teams were better suited to run than the Lions were. On top of that, any OL on that team not named Glover or Brown was pretty much pure trash. 

As productive of a career that Barry had, he’d have been stratospherically better had he played on:

Houston, Buffalo, San Francisco, Dallas, Philadelphia, Washington, NYG, Miami, both of the LA teams, Green Bay, Denver, Pittsburgh, and even fucking Cincinnati.

Can’t say that about Emmitt. He was on the perfect offense if ever there was one crafted for a particular player.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

"He's a flash in the pan."

-My Dad, 1989

what's his user name here

[Samson's Wig 3181]

That 1988 season was the year Oklahoma State played Texas Tech in the Tokyo Bowl in Japan.  What a crazy year Sanders had.  That game was nuts, too.  Final score was 45-42 OSU, if I recall correctly, which was a a high score in those days.  Sanders rushed for over 300 yards that day.

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Oh shit, I forgot about Gore and McGahee.. yah, that's a pretty sick 4 deep. However, unless you're running the bone... 

Of course, Gore is always screwed in Florida, as memory serves in 2000...

[CooterBrown 17909]

He's amazing and one of the funnest to watch that ever played but I'm required by law to note one item.
Sanders College Career: 5.9 per carry
Ricky Williams: 6.2 per carry
 

I have a vague memory that in the NFL he had more carries for a loss than a gain and still racked up all those yards. I wonder what the ratio was like in college.

[Robin Masters 122]

McFadden was 2 times Heisman runner up and averaged 5.8ypc in the SEC SEC SEC, mediocre as a pro though.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/darren-mcfadden-1.html

 

[mr.goodkat 464]

3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

. It's crazy that him and Thurman were on the same team. Crazy talent to have in one backfield.

and gundy and hart lee dykes . and still could't  beat ou . godamnit

Edited August 24, 2018 by mr.goodkat

[Red Five 40663]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

I'm dubious of that, but he had a lot of carries for a loss for sure. I do recall something to that effect but not sure on the specifics.

Aside from the emotional bias which is clear.. I need 3-4 yards to win the game, last play on the goal line deal.

College- Williams or Dayne

Pro- Emmitt

Though I like Sweetness more than all of them. 

Watching and my team isn't involved- Sanders for pro and college.

/Hands in is Longhorn man card

In that scenario, I think I'd take Earl. 

[Godzillatron 292]

Seeing them both play (I was on campus at OSU for Sanders then came to the University and stayed in Texas) it’s pointless to try to pick between them. 1a and 1b. Different styles but both giants among boys on the field.

[kopp0e 1135]

2 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

That 1988 season was the year Oklahoma State played Texas Tech in the Tokyo Bowl in Japan.  What a crazy year Sanders had.  That game was nuts, too.  Final score was 45-42 OSU, if I recall correctly, which was a a high score in those days.  Sanders rushed for over 300 yards that day.

That was the only bowl game that I know of that was ever played in Tokyo, a spectacular season for the Cowboy, with some records that may never remain untouched...

Quote

OSU Going To Japan Pokes Play Tech in Tokyo in '88 - NewsOK

https://newsok.com/article/.../osu-going-to-japan-pokes-play-tech-in-tokyo-in-88

Oct 27, 1987 - STILLWATER Oklahoma State's football team will receive $100,000 for playing Texas Technext fall in the Coca-Cola Bowl at Tokyo, Japan, ...

 

[Bullneck 18987]

10 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Another interesting note.

Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders play for 2 years together.

I would argue the closest to that talent level or debatably better were Preist Holmes and Ricky Williams.

Running a distant 3rd Lindale White and Reggie Bush

I can't think of any other tandems that come close.

Don't shoot the messenger, but Pony Express.

[Deej 76568]

I enjoyed Barry, but I enjoy a back that will put his head down and truck someone, more. 

[UTDD 362]

7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

I remember the tired Emmitt vs Barry debates. Both were great in their own way. Barry was definitely more of a highlight reel and exciting. But Emmitt worked great for what Dallas wanted to do in that offense. I always wondered if we had Barry, are we as efficient? I always remember that negative yardage game he had in the playoffs. Against GB maybe? 

I'm not sold that Barry would have been better specifically for those great Dallas teams as Emmitt was basically a perfect fit with that roster and offensive scheme.  Emmitt is sometimes underrated to me at times by people in how amazing and especially how tough and crafty he was after contact.  Having said that, I think personally Barry is a slightly better overall RB in that I think he could have been dominant in more specific roster situations than Emmitt if you put them on most NFL teams with their variable rosters/schemes.  But I'll never love on a personal level Barry like I do Emmitt as his combination of talent, heart, toughness, and desire were just amazing to me.

Edited August 25, 2018 by UTDD
error

[BERT 4351]

Y’all wanting a #3 for the last 30 years? How about Bo Jackson? 

[mr.goodkat 464]

9 minutes ago, BERT said:

Y’all wanting a #3 for the last 30 years? How about Bo Jackson? 

bo jackson is just outside the 30 yr parameter he was a raider in 87 

[mulletpelini 5209]

Nice math Bert, hell lets use Roger Craig, Mike Rozier,  Jeff Smith and Tom Rathman in the same backfield.

Mullet didn't make video, in fact no BC in that video at all.  He played mostly WR from what I remember on defense, we were pretty solid up front on the DLine in '85, which is probably why they had him playing wide.  I actually remember his older brother Byron causing more issues running than Barry.  He ended up playing at Nwestern.

The kid that played at North high was just a kid.  The dude that played at OSU was a grown ass man.

[kopp0e 1135]

 

[kopp0e 1135]

I say yes..!

 

[RD3 64]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:15 AM, BurntEyes said:

Another interesting note.

Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders play for 2 years together.

I would argue the closest to that talent level or debatably better were Preist Holmes and Ricky Williams.

Running a distant 3rd Lindale White and Reggie Bush

I can't think of any other tandems that come close.

They mentioned that in the article -> that backfield was the only time 2 NFL Hall of Fame RBs played together in college.

[runthebone 7932]

Ricky played 4 years, Barry played 3.  That makes a difference when assessing their career.  There would be no argument  if Barry had played 4.  Agree ESPN shouldn't add his bowl stats, that was stupid. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by runthebone

[runthebone 7932]

If you look at RC Didn't Offer's quote, it looks like he said aggy held Barry to his lowest total of the year instead of second lowest.  

 

Classic aggy in every way. 

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

3 hours ago, runthebone said:

Ricky played 4 years, Barry played 3.  That makes a difference when assessing their career.  There would be no argument  if Barry had played 4.  Agree ESPN shouldn't add his bowl stats, that was stupid. 

If others have their bowl stats added, why shouldn't they add his?  The NCAA is stupid to not simply go back and add it for all backs or take it away from backs that have it added.  

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

3 hours ago, runthebone said:

If you look at RC Didn't Offer's quote, it looks like he said aggy held Barry to his lowest total of the year instead of second lowest.  

 

Classic aggy in every way. 

Ok, have to concede that point...it read as a very aggy thing to say. 

[bamachine 1230]

No doubt in my mind, Barry is the GOAT RB in CFB history. I have Bo and Herschel as a toss up for 2nd and 3rd.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:16 AM, Hank Chinaski said:

Gotta be Peterson.

As a college running back, no way.  He was hurt too much and did not have a high enough YPC.  He’s behind Ricky and Sproles as college backs.  Check the numbers.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:55 AM, ChiTownDoc said:

Everyone can argue Adrian vs Ricky vs whoever...

Thats all for number 2.  Barry is GOAT.  The man put up those stats and gave zero fucks about accolades.  I grew up a Dallas/Emmitt fan and even as a kid it was obvious Barry was on another planet.  

As a college back, Peterson isn’t close t Ricky. Again, Darren Sproles is the second best big 12 back behind Ricky and Peterson is closer to 4th than 2nd.  Peterson was always hurt.  He had one great season that wasn’t even as good as Ricky’s second best season and that OU offense had a heisman qb, two first round tackles, a second round center, a drafted fullback, 4-5 receivers drafted from the 1st to third round, and another guard drafted second day.  

As a college back, Adrian Peterson is ridiculously overrated.  He wasn’t hurt too much and left early.  

[runthebone 7932]

32 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

If others have their bowl stats added, why shouldn't they add his?  The NCAA is stupid to not simply go back and add it for all backs or take it away from backs that have it added.  

Because I memorized the old stats and dont want to change. 

[ChiTownDoc 21101]

13 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

As a college back, Peterson isn’t close t Ricky. Again, Darren Sproles is the second best big 12 back behind Ricky and Peterson is closer to 4th than 2nd.  Peterson was always hurt.  He had one great season that wasn’t even as good as Ricky’s second best season and that OU offense had a heisman qb, two first round tackles, a second round center, a drafted fullback, 4-5 receivers drafted from the 1st to third round, and another guard drafted second day.  

As a college back, Adrian Peterson is ridiculously overrated.  He wasn’t hurt too much and left early.  

I wasn’t arguing any of that.  Agree with you on college Ricky>Adrian. 

Just saying Barry trumps em all.  

[Hank Chinaski 6310]

59 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

As a college running back, no way.  He was hurt too much and did not have a high enough YPC.  He’s behind Ricky and Sproles as college backs.  Check the numbers.  

Yeah you're right - forgot how banged up he was after his freshman year. 

And I was never suggesting that he was above Ricky - I was saying after Sanders and Ricky. 

[BERT 4351]

22 hours ago, mulletpelini said:

Nice math Bert, hell lets use Roger Craig, Mike Rozier,  Jeff Smith and Tom Rathman in the same backfield.

Mullet didn't make video, in fact no BC in that video at all.  He played mostly WR from what I remember on defense, we were pretty solid up front on the DLine in '85, which is probably why they had him playing wide.  I actually remember his older brother Byron causing more issues running than Barry.  He ended up playing at Nwestern.

The kid that played at North high was just a kid.  The dude that played at OSU was a grown ass man.

Makes sure you listen carefully.......... lick my sack. 

[Hornius Emeritus 12419]

There was a guy who used to come to our tailgates who used to brag about how he used to tackle Barry Sanders in high school. Seriously, he'd get drunk and we'd hear it every fucking time. Then finally he brought a high school friend with him who was also on the team and he told us it ONE tackle, it came at the end of a long run, and it was a gang tackle. Our fellow tailgater tackled Barry with about four other players.

[Rimbo 25781]

Quote

To this day, only once did two future Pro Football Hall of Fame running backs play together in college: Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas.

Hmmmmm.

[kopp0e 1135]

This is a cool idea..!

 

[mr.goodkat 464]

Just now, kopp0e said:

This is a cool idea..!

 

they can wear whatever they want for their beatdown . 

[mr.goodkat 464]

17 hours ago, bamachine said:

No doubt in my mind, Barry is the GOAT RB in CFB history. I have Bo and Herschel as a toss up for 2nd and 3rd.

you can toss something for sure, but  fuck bo and herschel they cant tote ricky's jock strap

[kopp0e 1135]

4 minutes ago, mr.goodkat said:

they can wear whatever they want for their beatdown . 

I think the Pokes will offer a solid foe, the 'Horns defense will give Gundy fits, & I look forward to seeing #50ShadesOfOrange, between the pillars of the stadium...

[Deej 76568]

12 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

This is a cool idea..!

 

Sorry, Okie State, Barry Sanders ain't walking through that door.

[Sandman 3402]

9 hours ago, Deej said:

Sorry, Okie State, Barry Sanders ain't walking through that door.

Actually, he is. He's the homecoming grand marshall this year.

[kopp0e 1135]

The debate will be a long one:

 

[kopp0e 1135]

Video of Barry in high school...

 

[hpslugga 4044]

On 8/24/2018 at 3:23 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

And a HOF QB/WR combo to complement the running game.  You couldn't just game plan to stop Emmitt or Troy and Michael would eat you up... (not to mention Novacek, Alvin Harper, etc.)

I don't think it's a stretch to say that every team who played the Lions during Barry's time had a defensive game plan that was singularly focused on slowing him down.

And I don't think people understand how damning that is to the Lions in general. Again, they were running that Double Slot Mouse Davis offense for a large chunk of his career. You're not supposed to focus on one person when you face those offenses, and if you do, it has to be the QB. If keying the RB is a viable strategy against a Double Slot offense, then you're facing a shitty offense. Any OL Detroit had not named Lomas or Glover was the shits, their WR corps was a joke (Aubrey Matthews wouldn't make 3rd string for any other NFL team, and he started for them), they rotated QB's like NASCAR drivers go through tires, and their defense didn't really do them a lot of favors either. Of course it's a useless hypothetical discussion, but it is nonetheless a valid point that Smith had a wealth of support that Barry simply did not have.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

I agree abou the relative talent levels of the lions and cowboys in the 90s, but the Dallas offensive line wasn’t considered great before emmitt got there, with a fair amount of the same guys, and the kervin richards’ of the world weren’t piling up the yardage when they played. And, how many of the Dallas OL are now in the HOF?  Just Allen, right? And he starred a little later on in emmit’s career. 

More to the point of the thread, sanders was ridiculous and so much fun to watch. 

[Baboontyme 2808]

I have a lot of input. It will have to wait until tomorrow. Different perspective.

[Shmitty 112]

If not for injuries and offensive scheme his fr and soph years, i'd have thrown this guy in as well.  He was certainly one of the better white backs.  In 2001, he was averaging 8.1 ypc.  227lbs with 4.38 speed.  

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Shmitty

[hpslugga 4044]

8 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I agree abou the relative talent levels of the lions and cowboys in the 90s, but the Dallas offensive line wasn’t considered great before emmitt got there

And at no point would anyone with a functioning grey cell ever argue that the Lions' OL was even good, let alone great. That's the point. 

8 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

And, how many of the Dallas OL are now in the HOF?  Just Allen, right?

How many of the Detroit OL have even been seriously considered for nomination? Just Brown, right?And far beyond the OL, the surrounding skill players and QB were an outright joke. The reason Emmitt did so well is because that OL didn't have to deal with constant disadvantages in the numbers game. If you stacked the box with 8-9 guys against Dallas, yeah you might hold Emmitt to under 100 yards, but they'd still whip your ass for doing something that stupid. Detroit's offense was supposed to work like that on paper, but the collective suckitude of those skill players quickly took away what should have been an obviously inherent advantage.