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Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:19 PM, landman said:

She had zero people back up her story.  He has multiple people saying it didn't happen, including a close friend of hers.

 And based on this he's guilty?  Hope I never end up on a jury with some of you.

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Good lord how hard is it to understand that this isn't a court of law, it's a job interview for the most important job a lawyer can have.

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Aphelion said:

I think forthright testimony should be a requirement for forthright questioning.  If people were to ask me about high school yearbook entries, the meaning of slang, and whether I drank too much at some college parties to imply that it is plausible I'm a rapist, then I would be as evasive as possible.  Now I understand the argument that one should answer honestly no matter what, but I personally wouldn't feel it my duty to give direct answers to such dishonest, slanderous questioning.  Very few people even asked about the alleged incident.  The truth is at the bottom of a bottomless pit in this case and this is merely a politics game for all involved.  

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You don't think it's your duty not to lie while under oath?

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Aphelion said:

I think forthright testimony should be a requirement for forthright questioning.  If people were to ask me about high school yearbook entries, the meaning of slang, and whether I drank too much at some college parties to imply that it is plausible I'm a rapist, then I would be as evasive as possible.  Now I understand the argument that one should answer honestly no matter what, but I personally wouldn't feel it my duty to give direct answers to such dishonest, slanderous questioning.  Very few people even asked about the alleged incident.  The truth is at the bottom of a bottomless pit in this case and this is merely a politics game for all involved.  

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He wasn't evasive. He lied under oath. 

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Aphelion said:

If people were to ask me about high school yearbook entries, the meaning of slang, and whether I drank too much at some college parties to imply that it is plausible I'm a rapist, then I would be as evasive as possible.

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The question isn't what you would do, the question is what you think someone worthy of the SC should do. They are different things.

Feel free to say, "No, I don't think honesty is a requirement to be an SC justice." It's fine. It's 2018. People need to be open about what they believe.

Nothing is forbidden, just answer the question.

 

  • Like 1
Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:19 PM, landman said:

She had zero people back up her story.  He has multiple people saying it didn't happen, including a close friend of hers.

And based on this he's guilty?  Hope I never end up on a jury with some of you.

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This is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States.

As has been pointed out, there is conflicting evidence and there is not a clear understanding on what exactly happened. It is likely that only two people, if that, know the truth, Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh. That would result in a verdict of "Not Guilty" in a jury trial.

Again, this is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States. There is a significant possibility he did commit some form of sexual assault. Beyond that, he has conducted himself shamefully and has told multiple, easily verifiable lies.

Once more, this is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States. The cloud of scandal surrounding his past and his current behavior fall well, well short of that standard. That is not debatable.

Please reply if any of the above needs clarification.

Side note: There are plenty of other conservative justices, ala Gorsuch, that Democrats would make plenty of noise about objecting to, but would ultimately sail through smoothly because they are professionally qualified, level-headed, and are definitively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, not rapey frat boys. Only the hackiest of partisan hacks, who care far more for their team than the well being of this country, want this pushed through.

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Aphelion said:

Very few people even asked about the alleged incident.  

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What can you ask about the alleged incident when questioning a guy about an event that he claims did not even remotely happen?   Hey, who else was at that party you say didn't exist?  Did Mark Judge say anything during the assault you say is a total fabrication at a non-existent party? 

There's nothing to ask him about the alleged incident besides whether there was such a party at all, whether he might have a memory lapse about it from his drinking, and whether he engaged in the kind of conduct that would be consistent with Dr. Ford's description of him. 

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:19 PM, bad_teammate said:

And what do you imagine the chair would have done with Ford's identity? Perhaps tell people outside the process like... uh... Ed Whelan, who would then go digging up dirt around Ford?

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That's exactly what would have happened.

Leak it and let others run the smear campaigns.

Posted

Can we stop this talking point by both sides? It isn’t a court of law. It isn’t a job interview. It’s a duty of the Senate under Article II, Sec 2, Clause 2.

The process is at the discretion of the Senate. Filibuster, Cloture, Up-down, Committee. Rules, precedent, and discretion of the Senate. Good or bad.

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:10 PM, Mojo Hand said:

There are situations in which something was not technically a lie, but was misleading.  Kavanaugh's testimony was riddled with both forms of deception. Doesn't matter what you want to call it or how he rationalized it.   He doesn't belong on the Supreme Court. 

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I agree with that.  "Smarmy" was all I could think of watching him

Posted (edited)
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:28 PM, gmr548 said:

This is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States.

As has been pointed out, there is conflicting evidence and there is not a clear understanding on what exactly happened. It is likely that only two people, if that, know the truth, Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh. That would result in a verdict of "Not Guilty" in a jury trial.

Again, this is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States. There is a significant possibility he did commit some form of sexual assault. Beyond that, he has conducted himself shamefully and has told multiple, easily verifiable lies.

Once more, this is not a criminal jury trial where the standard is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the United States. The cloud of scandal surrounding his past and his current behavior fall well, well short of that standard. That is not debatable.

Please reply if any of the above needs clarification.

Side note: There are plenty of other conservative justices, ala Gorsuch, that Democrats would make plenty of noise about objecting to, but would ultimately sail through smoothly because they are professionally qualified, level-headed, and are definitively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, not rapey frat boys. Only the hackiest of partisan hacks, who care far more for their team than the well being of this country, want this pushed through.

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I am back from my bullshit ban. Kim Strassel from the WSJ has been so fucking awesome and on point during this entire farce

“Contrary to Democrats’ claims, due process is not constrained to courts of law; it is central to employee discipline, professional standards of conduct, even evictions of tenants. It is owed to any individual in a civilized body politic. Under due process, the accuser has the burden of proof. Ms. Ford has not met the evidentiary standard even of a civil proceeding, the preponderance of evidence—yet this case is more significant than any that has been dealt with in a court of law for ages. How the Senate votes now will reverberate to all levels of society. A “no” vote on Judge Kavanaugh is an authorization to renew calls for a Justice Clarence Thomas to step down. It is an authorization to derail the life of any white-collar manager or blue-collar crew boss who is ever subject to a single uncorroborated allegation.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-kavanaugh-stakes-1538088433?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/Mgs9jCnhN5

 

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
  • Like 1
Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:25 PM, Mojo Hand said:

I know it's a clichéd observation by this point, but could that guy's name be any more appropriate?   Geez. 

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Doesn’t make a shit of difference to me what Flake does at this point, even if he votes against Kavanaugh.  The fact he has to think so hard about this tells me everything I need to know.  

And Bob Corker...

76407321-9CA1-4AAD-A4BC-11FE099A91D5_zps

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:36 PM, Llano Estacado said:

Can we stop this talking point by both sides? It isn’t a court of law. It isn’t a job interview. It’s a duty of the Senate under Article II, Sec 2, Clause 2.

The process is at the discretion of the Senate. Filibuster, Cloture, Up-down, Committee. Rules, precedent, and discretion of the Senate. Good or bad.

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You're pretty much describing a job interview.   

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:19 PM, landman said:

She had zero people back up her story.  He has multiple people saying it didn't happen, including a close friend of hers.

And based on this he's guilty?  Hope I never end up on a jury with some of you.

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Why are you lying about what her friend said?

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:42 PM, David Dennison said:

He might be making his vote contingent on further investigation. 

There is no need to rush this.

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Honestly - Flake, Donnelly, Collins, Murkowski, Manchin should have all said they weren't going to vote until an FBI investigation was complete.

Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:39 PM, Iconoclast Texan said:

I am back from my bullshit ban. Kim Strassel from the WSJ has been so fucking awesome and on point during this entire farce

“Contrary to Democrats’ claims, due process is not constrained to courts of law; it is central to employee discipline, professional standards of conduct, even evictions of tenants. It is owed to any individual in a civilized body politic. Under due process, the accuser has the burden of proof. Ms. Ford has not met the evidentiary standard even of a civil proceeding, the preponderance of evidence—yet this case is more significant than any that has been dealt with in a court of law for ages. How the Senate votes now will reverberate to all levels of society. A “no” vote on Judge Kavanaugh is an authorization to renew calls for a Justice Clarence Thomas to step down. It is an authorization to derail the life of any white-collar manager or blue-collar crew boss who is ever subject to a single uncorroborated allegation.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-kavanaugh-stakes-1538088433?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/Mgs9jCnhN5

 

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Lulz, you whiny bitch.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:26 PM, GSU&UT said:

 

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Just a couple responses from the tweet you posted. There are links to the case too

 

“They found that he lied, but the jury nonetheless found defendants not liable for assault and battery and excessive force. Hundley’s estate challenged this ruling and Kavanaugh agreed with them. I’m certainly no Kavanaugh fan but I think this tweet is misleading.”

 

“Kavanaugh and two other judges asked for a new trial due to inconsistencies with the jury's findings. This was a civil case.”

Edited by EuroHorn
Posted
  On 9/28/2018 at 5:40 PM, Mojo Hand said:
You're pretty much describing a job interview.   

Sorry ambassador, I’ve had different life experiences than you.

I’ve had many job interviews, never had one where I was appointed to the position and only assumed the role after being confirmed or rejected by the US Senate.


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