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Brett Kavanaugh Confirmation Thread

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Yuk
Yuk

No, you guys went Republican to ethnonationalist.

Bozo_Casanova
Bozo_Casanova

When Georgetown Prep sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're

TexArcher
TexArcher

In 2016 I was a moderate.  Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, but not quite a libertarian.  I would have considered voting for Kasich had he won the nomination. Now?  I will probably never

Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Your hardon for Jeff Flake is impressive.  He's about as Presidential as my daughter's guinea pig.  He is a horrible public speaker.  Sure, he looks like JFK -- and that's where the similarities end.

He might vote "no".  He might vote "yes".  He's a politician.  He's trying to see which way the wind blows.  He knows that speech isn't going to haunt him, because he basically "what-about-both-sides" the main points.  Sure, he scolded the right a bit.  But not TOO much.

He's a stuffed shirt, virtually worthless.

Still better than Trump/McConnell/Paul Ryan.

The only reason I give Flake any props is he shows some, not much, political courage.  He’s sticking his neck out so people like you and the Trumpkins can destroy him for doing so.

I don’t agree with Flake on much policy but I can recognize a guy that’s not completely out of touch, politically or otherwise.

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kevwun

kevwun 15618

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1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

Surely, that guy didn’t know about the latest gang rape ring allegations?  I mean ... surely.  Right?

Probably not as it was on Monday night.  Still an awful thing to say and hopefully one he will regret for the rest of his life.

Edited by kevwun
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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Just now, bad_teammate said:

Trump lifted the shame off of conservatives. They can say the quiet part loud again.

i've been asking why are republicans doubling down on this fucking guy...maybe you just articulated it best.

maybe they all identify with him and with trump as sexual deviants, and they are emboldened to re-adopt their bro attitude of the 70s-80s. maybe they think they are insulated from voters because #MAGA. 

i think there's something a bit more at play, because i thought most republicans were at least somewhat politically astute. they are missing the boat by a country mile. 

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G650

G650 14086

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5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

 embarrassed.  It's about the situation, not the person.

So I repeat...have you never gone to a bar hoping to hook up with some girl who may have her inhibitions lowered from drinking? Have you never had a drunken one night stand after a frat party?  Never had a girl do the "walk of shame" from your apartment?  

 

 

I'll preface by saying I do somewhat agree with your greater point. I honestly cannot say I've ever gone out hoping some chick was wasted enough it could get me in there. I'd certainly go out looking to get laid, as any other person would, but the drinking was just something we all did along the way, it wasn't a means to an end.

 

I have categorically not had a drunken one night stands after a frat party because fuck frats and their douchebag ass members, I woudn't be caught dead there.

 

Walk of shame, well, duh, of course.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

i think there's something a bit more at play, because i thought most republicans were at least somewhat politically astute. they are missing the boat by a country mile. 

They are. They are in power. This is them being politically astute.

What boat are they missing? The SS Decorum?

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

i've been asking why are republicans doubling down on this fucking guy...maybe you just articulated it best.

maybe they all identify with him and with trump as sexual deviants, and they are emboldened to re-adopt their bro attitude of the 70s-80s. maybe they think they are insulated from voters because #MAGA. 

i think there's something a bit more at play, because i thought most republicans were at least somewhat politically astute. they are missing the boat by a country mile. 

They want to put women and anyone else who isn't a white, cis, Christian, straight male in their place.   They like the optics of the white frat boys telling off those pussy hat wearing libtard hysterical women off for daring to speak out.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

They are. They are in power. This is them being politically astute.

What boat are they missing? The SS Decorum?

they won't be for long, at this rate. 

but i guess you are right. it truly wasn't all that long ago that old white republican men were saying things like "it's nearly impossible to get pregnant from a rape, because the female body just shuts that whole thing down."

i've clearly overestimated their seats on the SS Decorum.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14870

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Every town has that, or similar, urban legend.
I am sure it has happened.


I was at a party where that happened in hs. I don’t know how many boys, I didn’t participate. But, and I hate to type these words, she was a willing participant. I got to know her pretty well over the next couple years. She never said anything but that that’s how she wanted to welcome herself to a new school. She had MASSIVE daddy issues.
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11559

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Just now, Buzzrock said:

 


I was at a party where that happened in hs. I don’t know how many boys, I didn’t participate. But, and I hate to type these words, she was a willing participant. I got to know her pretty well over the next couple years. She never said anything but that that’s how she wanted to welcome herself to a new school. She had MASSIVE daddy issues.

 

Which is completely different than drugged train rape.

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G650

G650 14086

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3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 


I was at a party where that happened in hs. I don’t know how many boys, I didn’t participate. But, and I hate to type these words, she was a willing participant. I got to know her pretty well over the next couple years. She never said anything but that that’s how she wanted to welcome herself to a new school. She had MASSIVE daddy issues.

 

This actually happened at my high school in a similar fashion.

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sachick

sachick 1189

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2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 


I was at a party where that happened in hs. I don’t know how many boys, I didn’t participate. But, and I hate to type these words, she was a willing participant. I got to know her pretty well over the next couple years. She never said anything but that that’s how she wanted to welcome herself to a new school. She had MASSIVE daddy issues.

I would bet money she was abused in some way as a kid.

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Loco

Loco 3752

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3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The GOP went rogue after Trump won the nomination. They don't give a rat's fucking ass about anyone in this country outside of themselves and the super wealthy. There is no belief system outside of keeping power. leading  fleecing the sheep.

 

fify

Edited by Loco
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The GOP went rogue after Trump won the nomination. They don't give a rat's fucking ass about anyone in this country outside of themselves and the super wealthy. There is no belief system outside of keeping power.

 

They’ve been rogue for a while.  Trump is just getting more people to pay attention.

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kevwun

kevwun 15618

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When I was in middle school, a nearby town had a huge scandal where a few upperclassmen football players got a very young girl(around 14 iirc) drunk and then had sex with her.  A few of the guys were from wealthy families.  The details are hazy as it was over 20 years ago, but I remember at least some of the guys getting charged for it.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45546

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Just now, kevwun said:

When I was in middle school, a nearby town had a huge scandal where a few upperclassmen football players got a very young girl(around 14 iirc) drunk and then had sex with her.  A few of the guys were from wealthy families.  The details are hazy as it was over 20 years ago, but I remember at least some of the guys getting charged for it.

Wasn't the Austin Westlake "scandal" from last year rumored to be similar?  Odd how that just sort of evaporated.

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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That is most everyone's experience with them.  They seem like a scientific instrument and so it is assumed that they work, but there is simply no way to measure deception with such devices.  The best we can do is measure physiological responses presumed to be linked with deception, but "There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious."   

http://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx

 

 

 

... which is why they ask control questions with easy obvious true responses.

 

ETA: The point is not that polygraphs are dispositive. They are just a piece to be considered with everything else.

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Horndog

Horndog 2218

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Interesting first person story from a girl considered to be the high school slut.  Helps to see it from the other side.

"Being labeled a slut at 11 years old meant I spent the next seven years in school fending off advances and narrowly dodging being raped. Though I was hurt by those interactions, I never conceived of them as anything outside the range of normal. As far as I could tell, this was just the way boys behaved.

That I never once felt like the adults in my life would take me seriously if I told them what was happening can be attributed to the “boys will be boys” attitudes that permeated my public schools, the elite private schools some of those boys attended and American culture writ large."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate-alumnius_us_5baa8e31e4b0f143d10e2639

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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3 minutes ago, sachick said:

I would bet money she was abused in some way as a kid.

oh, and while she was "willing" i'm sure she was definitely sober. definitely. because she was so willing.

every school has an instance like this. we got a note home after a group of dudes ran on oral train on a girl at our school.

and these are only the episodes that made it to the street. these have to be, by far, the outlier reports. there is so much under the cover of darkness, i'm sure.

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jimmyjazz

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25 minutes ago, HornPhD said:

My youngest sister's husband is a polygrapher in the NCIS and did some work in Afghanistan. He received a DoD counterintelligence award for his polygraph work. I will ask him what he thinks.

I'm little more than an ID channel criminologist (meaning my wife watches ID channel religiously), but there's no way a polygraph can be run asking only 2 questions, given the need to baseline the subject's physiological response to questions for which the answer is known.  Maybe they just asked 2 questions post-baseline, which doesn't sound sketchy, although perhaps incomplete.

EDIT:  sorta what scottsins said

Edited by jimmyjazz
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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5911

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Preview of Supreme Courts upcoming term: Legal experts discussed cases on the docket and how a Justice Kavanaugh would change the court.

https://gwtoday.gwu.edu/panel-gw-law-previews-supreme-courts-upcoming-term

 
Regarding the hearing set tomorrow:
 
 
September 26, 2018

By Ruth Steinhardt

Multiple accusations of sexual assault have roiled the Supreme Court nomination of Brett Kavanaugh, who has categorically denied the allegations.

In response, the Senate Judiciary Committee has scheduled a hearing Thursday at which Christine Blasey Ford will testify. We spoke to Naomi Cahn, Harold H. Greene Professor of Law and associate dean for research and faculty development at the George Washington University and an expert in workplace gender equity, about the implications.

Q: What would constitute a fair hearing for Dr. Ford? 

A: The situation is changing constantly, but a fair hearing would be one in which her conditions for testifying are satisfied and at which other witnesses are heard. So a fair hearing would include experts on sexual assault who could explain the impact of the trauma on her, why it is so hard for survivors to come forward, and why she might not remember all the details. The questioning would not focus on her character but on what actually happened.

Additional witnesses should be called who weren’t necessarily present at the time of the incident but who could testify about Mr. Kavanaugh’s high school and college behavior. There is a lot of evidence, including things he’s said himself, about that. I was just reading a speech he gave to the Federalist Society a few years ago in which he talked about drinking at Yale Law School, for instance.

Q: How does this differ from a criminal hearing?

A: At a criminal trial we would want to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, whether he committed this specific act. But this isn’t a criminal trial. It’s more like a very prestigious job interview. It’s a question of his fitness to serve a lifetime appointment as a Supreme Court justice. It’s not a court of law, so there are no established burdens of who has to prove what. The question is whether these accusations are credible and whether they reflect on his ability to serve, his judicial temperament and intellect. Choosing a prosecutor—who is a woman—to ask questions at the hearing seems to suggest this is a criminal trial, when in fact it’s not a trial at all, and the committee itself routinely has questioned witnesses who appear in confirmation hearings.

Q: Anita Hill, who faced a similar situation with Justice Clarence Thomas in 1991, has said that the hearing as it stands “cannot be fair and thorough.” What are the challenges to that fairness? 

A: Part of the challenge is that there isn’t enough time and there aren’t enough witnesses. Dr. Blasey Ford has requested an FBI investigation, as has Deborah Ramirez. The Senate seems to want to move rather quickly, and multiple FBI investigations would certainly delay the process. If the Senate Judiciary Committee is really planning to hold its vote on Friday morning, less than 24 hours after Dr. Blasey Ford testifies, that’s certainly not a lot of time for additional evidence-gathering, deliberation and reflection.

Q: Do you think we’re in a different climate around issues of sexual assault than we were at the time of Justice Thomas’s confirmation?

A: I feel like we’re in the same climate, unfortunately. Yes, it was an all-male committee that Anita Hill faced, and today that committee has four Democratic women. But I worry that not enough has changed. With the #MeToo movement there’s certainly a lot more discussion of these issues, but discussion doesn’t always mean progress. Consider the President’s response to the credibility of the claims against Kavanaugh. We’ll see if the hearings and the vote wind up surprising all of us. If her claims are taken seriously, and if there is further investigation, then that might be a sign we have moved forward.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32694

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23 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Bullshit.  First of all, you don't know how every woman you've slept with felt afterward.  Women have a totally different relationship with sex than men.  They will have sex with guys for many different reasons...drunkenness, feeling pressured, wanting to feel loved, not wanting to seem like a prude, etc.  These things might make them feel bad about themselves afterward.  That's what I'm talking about when I say many probably felt dirty and embarrassed.  It's about the situation, not the person.

You are projecting your experiences onto other people. I'm not saying I'm a better person than you are overall, but I will say that every girl (when I was a boy) and woman I've ever been with sexually came back for more when completely sober. So yes, I'm pretty sure they didn't feel dirty and embarrassed afterward. That's not some sort of internet brag or anything, for example it sounds like you've probably had sex with more women than I have in my life so this isn't a dick-measuring contest.

23 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

So I repeat...have you never gone to a bar hoping to hook up with some girl who may have her inhibitions lowered from drinking?

No, I have not.

23 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Have you never had a drunken one night stand after a frat party?

No, I have not.

23 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Never had a girl do the "walk of shame" from your apartment?  

No, I have not.

Again, you're projecting your life experiences onto everyone else. I am trying to explain to you that just because you think a certain behavior is normal doesn't mean it's actually normal for everyone. I have rejected sexual advances by multiple drunk women in my life. To be fair many of those were after I was married, but I also rejected advances well before that when unmarried. You should stick to the part where you feel really badly about things you did in the past instead of trying to normalize them like you are now. I don't think I'm special because of any of this, my entire argument is that I believe my life experience is just as normal as you believe yours is. Now I certainly hope that more people would decline sex with a clearly drunk off her ass woman than would go ahead with it, but I can't say that for sure. Perhaps I have my head up my ass but I choose to believe that more people would decline than would proceed. I heard plenty of boasts from guys growing up and into adulthood, and I never heard anyone talk about how they slept with some basically unconscious girl. I guess I just don't believe that sexual assault being socially unaccepted is unusual. And none of this is to say that I'm a saint, I have stuff I've done in the past that I wish I hadn't done. It's only that none of those things involved having sex with a woman incapable of consenting.

Also, sorry for the derail. I do consider it important that people don't consider non-consensual sex normal, but this should probably be a separate thread at this point. Back to Kavanaugh.

Edited by Huckleberry
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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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I was at a party where that happened in hs. I don’t know how many boys, I didn’t participate. But, and I hate to type these words, she was a willing participant. I got to know her pretty well over the next couple years. She never said anything but that that’s how she wanted to welcome herself to a new school. She had MASSIVE daddy issues.


Not sure if this is over the line or not...but...pics?
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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You are projecting your experiences onto other people. I'm not saying I'm a better person than you are overall, but I will say that every girl (when I was a boy) and woman I've ever been with sexually came back for more when completely sober. So yes, I'm pretty sure they didn't feel dirty and embarrassed afterward. That's not some sort of internet brag or anything, for example it sounds like you've probably had sex with more women than I have in my life so this isn't a dick-measuring contest.

 

 

Not to nitpick but just because they had sex with you again doesn't mean they didn't feel dirty, embarrassed or regretted it. There is NO way for anyone to know that with any of their partners with 100% accuracy. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

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49 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

That is most everyone's experience with them.  They seem like a scientific instrument and so it is assumed that they work, but there is simply no way to measure deception with such devices.  The best we can do is measure physiological responses presumed to be linked with deception, but "There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious."   

http://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx

 

 

I thought you had to ask numerous control questions first?  Like basic background info easily confirmed like name, age, name of kids, etc to get a baseline.   Was that done?

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scottsins

scottsins 1953

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I'm little more than an ID channel criminologist (meaning my wife watches ID channel religiously), but there's no way a polygraph can be run asking only 2 questions, given the need to baseline the subject's physiological response to questions for which the answer is known.  Maybe they just asked 2 questions post-baseline, which doesn't sound sketchy, although perhaps incomplete.
EDIT:  sorta what scottsins said


The report refers to asking two “relevant questions” which refers to the “meat”. The baseline questions would. It be referred to as the “relevant questions”, IIRC.
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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22598

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5 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

I by no means am claiming it didn't happen but who the hell goes to a High School party when you are a junior in College (Aside  for Wooderson of course) 

Can't speak from experience, but I imagine that going to college 30 mins from where you grew up results in some strange party overlaps.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45546

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3 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

I by no means am claiming it didn't happen but who the hell goes to a High School party when you are a junior in College (Aside  for Wooderson of course) 

It may be more the norm than you think.  I grew up in a very small college town.  The HS kids who wanted to party attended college parties.  That's not to say there weren't mostly HS parties nor that drink & drugs weren't prevalent, but there was a fair spread in age range at most parties I attended because of the local university.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11559

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3 minutes ago, scottsins said:

 


The report refers to asking two “relevant questions” which refers to the “meat”. The baseline questions would. It be referred to as the “relevant questions”, IIRC.

 

My question was would two, very simple, relevant questions be normal for a polygraph?

And is, "are you lying"** a common relevant question?

 

**paraphrasing

Edited by Incredulity
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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It may be more the norm than you think.  I grew up in a very small college town.  The HS kids who wanted to party attended college parties.  That's not to say there weren't mostly HS parties nor that drink & drugs weren't prevalent, but there was a fair spread in age range at most parties I attended because of the local university.

 

That is crazy. Where I live if you were in college you went to college parties or the bars. Maybe a year overlap but no 3. I sure as hell wouldn't be caught dead at a HS party when I was in college. 

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