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I realize that this has always been so obvious, but these last four weeks have really made the point that it's gutless congresspeople who are to blame.  I'm not both sizing it.  Republicans because they are cowardly, irresponsible and devoid of ethics, and Dems because they don't have any imagination.

Is it really a constitutional crisis when one arm of government utterly abandons any responsibility to push back on the other two?  The courts also, but they still show a spark now and again.

It all comes down to this.  Everything else is just stupid details.

 

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Well there's some merit to this point.  Congress has been pretty ineffectual as far as running the country for decades now.  They rightly ceded a lot of authority to agencies, but have abdicated their role in overseeing agencies and their policy agenda.  Had they done so, we might have avoided Loper Bright and similar decisions.

To some extent that has opened up the "imperial executive" theory (all the executive orders the last four administrations or so), and some of the shit that's come down the pike from SCOTUS.

So, yeah, Congress sucks.

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What it comes down to is that the Founding Fathers never accounted for such a malevolent, devoid-of-any-redeeming-qualities person ascending to the presidency. Well, it happened. Twice. Most Republican ideas are not popular. Many are morally repugnant. Deep down, they’ve known this since at least Reagan, maybe Nixon. Maybe before that — when they were actually Democrats.

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What exactly do you want the Democrats to do when they have no majority in either house of Congress? Yes, the Democrats suck and should speak up more but what actual options do they have to stand in the way of any of this? Lawsuits have already started flying for things like the birthright citizenship attack. That appears to be the only option now. 

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5 minutes ago, C-Man said:

What it comes down to is that the Founding Fathers never accounted for such a malevolent, devoid-of-any-redeeming-qualities person ascending to the presidency. Well, it happened. Twice. Most Republican ideas are not popular. Many are morally repugnant. Deep down, they’ve known this since at least Reagan, maybe Nixon. Maybe before that — when they were actually Democrats.

Ackshually, they kind of did.  Remember, they didn't contemplate a pure popular election for President.  One of the main reasons for the electoral college was to put a firewall of sanity between the office and the electorate.

They didn't envision laws against faithless electors and direct election of electors by the electorate (instead of appointment by legislature).

With those two things, the electoral college has become mostly useless except as a means of diluting the popular vote.

And, that was a compromise with those who wanted Congress to appoint the President, which seemed anomalous when most of us studied it, but in restrospect more resembles the parliamentary system that is more resilient.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Wrong. We're to blame. We became fat, and lazy, and indifferent and/or ignroant to the concept of it being a civic duty to be informed, to strive to be educated on topics, and to be grateful for having the right to vote, and to exercise it. Instead, we couldn't be bothered to watch the news, becuase it's sooo depressing/boring/who cares, and we couldn't follow politics for the same reason. We took everything we had for granted, and we turned into the fat fucks on the ship in Wall-E, simply eeeking along and becoming only concerned with things that are right in front of our face, or effect us directly. During that time, we escheweed morality, we allowed power hungry self-interested people to be elected (becuase good people didn't want to be politicians, we could make more money elsewhere), we allowed corporations to take over our politics monetarily, and we didn't punish people at the ballot box becuase politics became a team sport. We let for profit news, in all of it's obvious contradictions, take root and flourish. 

Trump. Congress. Politicians, all of it. They're all us. This is on us. You can call it as a species, or Americans as a country, but it's on us. This is who we have become. Pointing at Congress, Trump, the Supreme Court, it's all the same picture, and that picture is us. 

Yeah, this is what it ultimately boils down to.  But Congress should have exercised more power than it has, to serve a protective, checky-balancey role.

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, this is what it ultimately boils down to.  But Congress should have exercised more power than it has, to serve a protective, checky-balancey role.

That kind of congress disappeared about 8 years ago. It started dying when Newt Gingrich was elected speaker. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Wrong. We're to blame. We became fat, and lazy, and indifferent and/or ignroant to the concept of it being a civic duty to be informed, to strive to be educated on topics, and to be grateful for having the right to vote, and to exercise it. Instead, we couldn't be bothered to watch the news, becuase it's sooo depressing/boring/who cares, and we couldn't follow politics for the same reason. We took everything we had for granted, and we turned into the fat fucks on the ship in Wall-E, simply eeeking along and becoming only concerned with things that are right in front of our face, or effect us directly. During that time, we escheweed morality, we allowed power hungry self-interested people to be elected (becuase good people didn't want to be politicians, we could make more money elsewhere), we allowed corporations to take over our politics monetarily, and we didn't punish people at the ballot box becuase politics became a team sport. We let for profit news, in all of it's obvious contradictions, take root and flourish. 

Trump. Congress. Politicians, all of it. They're all us. This is on us. You can call it as a species, or Americans as a country, but it's on us. This is who we have become. Pointing at Congress, Trump, the Supreme Court, it's all the same picture, and that picture is us. 

77 million votes. We literally asked for this. 

I was at my cousin's place last summer and he had a Trump flag in his garage. He asked me if I wanted one too, and I said "No thanks, I'm pro-democracy". He looked at me like I asked my dog to do calculus. He literally had no idea what I was talking about, or how Trump could possibly be a threat to democracy. Just zero exposure to anything not on Fox News. I don't know how to combat that, other than winning a civil war. 

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26 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I realize that this has always been so obvious, but these last four weeks have really made the point that it's gutless congresspeople who are to blame.  I'm not both sizing it.  Republicans because they are cowardly, irresponsible and devoid of ethics, and Dems because they don't have any imagination.

Is it really a constitutional crisis when one arm of government utterly abandons any responsibility to push back on the other two?  The courts also, but they still show a spark now and again.

It all comes down to this.  Everything else is just stupid details.

 

You are both-sidesing it.  The only blame you can place on Democratic congresspeople is that they don't have a control of either house.  That's it.  They can do nothing more than filibuster and attempt to install procedural hurdles, which they have been doing.  Beyond that, 

a man wearing glasses is sitting in a chair and saying `` well what the hell we supposed to do ya moron '' .

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6 minutes ago, Red Five said:

77 million votes. We literally asked for this. 

I was at my cousin's place last summer and he had a Trump flag in his garage. He asked me if I wanted one too, and I said "No thanks, I'm pro-democracy". He looked at me like I asked my dog to do calculus. He literally had no idea what I was talking about, or how Trump could possibly be a threat to democracy. Just zero exposure to anything not on Fox News. I don't know how to combat that, other than winning a civil war. 

And honestly I no longer care enough about this country to fight in one.

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1 minute ago, kevwun said:

And honestly I no longer care enough about this country to fight in one.

If you fight, it won't be for this country. It will be becuase you're here anyway, and the policies this country enacted hurt people you love(d). 

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27 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Wrong. We're to blame. We became fat, and lazy, and indifferent and/or ignroant to the concept of it being a civic duty to be informed, to strive to be educated on topics, and to be grateful for having the right to vote, and to exercise it. Instead, we couldn't be bothered to watch the news, becuase it's sooo depressing/boring/who cares, and we couldn't follow politics for the same reason. We took everything we had for granted, and we turned into the fat fucks on the ship in Wall-E, simply eeeking along and becoming only concerned with things that are right in front of our face, or effect us directly. During that time, we escheweed morality, we allowed power hungry self-interested people to be elected (becuase good people didn't want to be politicians, we could make more money elsewhere), we allowed corporations to take over our politics monetarily, and we didn't punish people at the ballot box becuase politics became a team sport. We let for profit news, in all of it's obvious contradictions, take root and flourish. 

Trump. Congress. Politicians, all of it. They're all us. This is on us. You can call it as a species, or Americans as a country, but it's on us. This is who we have become. Pointing at Congress, Trump, the Supreme Court, it's all the same picture, and that picture is us. 

YES

18 minutes ago, Red Five said:

77 million votes. We literally asked for this. 

I was at my cousin's place last summer and he had a Trump flag in his garage. He asked me if I wanted one too, and I said "No thanks, I'm pro-democracy". He looked at me like I asked my dog to do calculus. He literally had no idea what I was talking about, or how Trump could possibly be a threat to democracy. Just zero exposure to anything not on Fox News. I don't know how to combat that, other than winning a civil war. 

you should drop him a line, see if he understands a little better now lol

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Congress in it's current state is completely unfixable, and extremely harmful to our country.

The reason that the Executive started consolidating is because Congress never did their fucking job and they had to start scrambling to get anything fucking done. 

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I voted for Harris.

I'm not to blame for shit.

You're a facet of a society that led to all of this coming about.  We all have some degree of culpability.

But more importantly, we should reach the point of not giving a shit.  Leopards are gonna feast, on every last one of us.  Will we have a hot civil war?  We actually might.  I could see Cascadia eventually seceding and joining Canada.  I've already told my boy that if there is a civil war of some sort, don't come home.  This country has amply demonstrated that it's not worth him dying for it.

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48 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I realize that this has always been so obvious, but these last four weeks have really made the point that it's gutless congresspeople who are to blame.  I'm not both sizing it.  Republicans because they are cowardly, irresponsible and devoid of ethics, and Dems because they don't have any imagination.

Is it really a constitutional crisis when one arm of government utterly abandons any responsibility to push back on the other two?  The courts also, but they still show a spark now and again.

It all comes down to this.  Everything else is just stupid details.

 

This is a decades long problem and I completely agree. At some point Congress just stopped taking responsibility for anything and just started enjoying not taking their power seriously.

And the Constitution is designed to work when all three branches are aggressively trying to protect and use their power. But Congress doesn't want it. They like not having to do anything but get comfy jobs and perks and titles.

That was something James Madison and company could never have predicted. And it is a big reason why our Constitution is failing.

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1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

dude

try 1980

I assume you're referring to Ronald Reagan being elected president. Which, fine. But I was explicitly speaking about when CONGRESS stopped working together in any type of bipartisan manner. CONGRESS. Not President. I could have cited multiple Supreme Court Cases, but that wasn't the topic of conversation. It was Congress. 

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Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

i thought you were talking about congress "working", i.e. not getting steamrolled

i get it - you're saying working TOGETHER within congress - yeah - that was newt

Yes, I meant a Congress that would work together to get shit done. 

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23 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You are both-sidesing it.  The only blame you can place on Democratic congresspeople is that they don't have a control of either house.  That's it.  They can do nothing more than filibuster and attempt to install procedural hurdles, which they have been doing.  Beyond that, 

a man wearing glasses is sitting in a chair and saying `` well what the hell we supposed to do ya moron '' .

You know what I want the Democratic congress critters to do - Win more elections. 
 

They need to do a better job of crafting their message, getting out the vote and gerrymandering House seats in Blue states.

You Play to Win the Game! 

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13 minutes ago, immamac said:

Congress in it's current state is completely unfixable, and extremely harmful to our country.

The reason that the Executive started consolidating is because Congress never did their fucking job and they had to start scrambling to get anything fucking done. 

So, autocracy because we want to get things done!

(Not dissimilar from shit I used to hear when I was on my country club's board--"we can't ever get things done because there are too many viewpoints!")

The reason nothing gets done is because no one is willing to compromise.  In modern history you need look no further than Gingrich's Contract on America.

Republicans now hold control of Congress.  They alone bear responsibility for what happens next.  If they want to get any legislation passed through the Senate they'll need to convince a handful of D senators to step across the aisle with some sort of compromise.  If they don't then they're not serious about doing anything and are willingly abdicating their role to the executive branch.

 

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8 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

You know what I want the Democratic congress critters to do - Win more elections. 

Me too.  My comment was responding to Greaser Bob who was talking about those already IN Congress.  They're the ones who are abdicating their role.  It's kind of unfair to blame those who aren't even there for what those who are there are doing (or not doing).

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16 minutes ago, immamac said:

Congress in it's current state is completely unfixable, and extremely harmful to our country.

The reason that the Executive started consolidating is because Congress never did their fucking job and they had to start scrambling to get anything fucking done. 

Again, had the bigger problem been an Executive Branch growing in power at the expense of the Legislative rather than the actual bigger problem, the Republican Party, Obama would have gotten his Supreme Court nominee. 

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1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

So, autocracy because we want to get things done!

(Not dissimilar from shit I used to hear when I was on my country club's board--"we can't ever get things done because there are too many viewpoints!")

The reason nothing gets done is because no one is willing to compromise.  In modern history you need look no further than Gingrich's Contract on America.

Republicans now hold control of Congress.  They alone bear responsibility for what happens next.  If they want to get any legislation passed through the Senate they'll need to convince a handful of D senators to step across the aisle with some sort of compromise.  If they don't then they're not serious about doing anything and are willingly abdicating their role to the executive branch.

 

Democratic Presidents also consolidated power and governed by EO.

This is a well studied problem and I've posted it several times before. 

See Congress polarize over the past 60 years, in one beautiful chart | Vox

journal.pone.0123507.g002.0.0.1498584007

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5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Again, had the bigger problem been an Executive Branch growing in power at the expense of the Legislative rather than the actual bigger problem, the Republican Party, Obama would have gotten his Supreme Court nominee. 

what the fuck ever man, you guys are helpless. 

Obama could have made it happen, but they didn't want to risk what would happen if they did when the pendulum swung. 

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1 hour ago, topochico said:

 I think the problems started in 1839 when they passed a law outlawing duels in Congress. We need to open the option back up to keep the dickheads in check. 

What I would do to see someone go all Preston Brooks on Ted Cruz's ass. 

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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Wrong. We're to blame. We became fat, and lazy, and indifferent and/or ignroant to the concept of it being a civic duty to be informed, to strive to be educated on topics, and to be grateful for having the right to vote, and to exercise it. Instead, we couldn't be bothered to watch the news, becuase it's sooo depressing/boring/who cares, and we couldn't follow politics for the same reason. We took everything we had for granted, and we turned into the fat fucks on the ship in Wall-E, simply eeeking along and becoming only concerned with things that are right in front of our face, or effect us directly. During that time, we escheweed morality, we allowed power hungry self-interested people to be elected (becuase good people didn't want to be politicians, we could make more money elsewhere), we allowed corporations to take over our politics monetarily, and we didn't punish people at the ballot box becuase politics became a team sport. We let for profit news, in all of it's obvious contradictions, take root and flourish. 

Trump. Congress. Politicians, all of it. They're all us. This is on us. You can call it as a species, or Americans as a country, but it's on us. This is who we have become. Pointing at Congress, Trump, the Supreme Court, it's all the same picture, and that picture is us. 

I was thinking about this earlier today and mentally mulling it over, but you articulate it much better. Boiling it down, in my mind, it felt like this: Politics were always what smart, driven, nerds did. There was a lot of opportunity cost and sweat equity and paying your dues and it sucked for 90% of it and it took some serious political junkies/wonks who were passionate about government to want to do it.

But in the modern era, it's almost "too democratic" in that anyone with any money, following, cult of personality can get into politics and even be succesful. So you get reality television brains into the machine and the vast majority of Americans are trash in mind, body and spirit.

And here we are.

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1 minute ago, immamac said:

Obama could have made it happen, but they didn't want to risk what would happen if they did when the pendulum swung. 

You're illustrating my point. The Democrat Executive checks it's own supposedly dominant position over the Legislative, while the GOP publishes it's own rationalizing of the unitary Executive, and as we're witnessing, carries it out. 

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Just now, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You're illustrating my point. The Democrat Executive checks it's own supposedly dominant position over the Legislative, while the GOP publishes it's own rationalizing of the unitary Executive, and as we're witnessing, carries it out. 

this is fucking dumb, just quit it with the woe is me jesus fuck. the problem is Americans don't hold their elected representatives accountable and those representatives are no longer doing their fucking jobs. 

It's not the party, it's the people and the mechanisms that continue to allow partisan stupid shit games instead of actually governing our incredibly large and economically prosperous country.

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52 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

  I could see Cascadia eventually seceding and joining Canada. 

 

Why tf would Canada risk war with the US over Cascadia, half of which (the eastern half) is full on right wing nut job guns over everything crazy. 

 

edit: back to the thread topic: Its Congress' fault, no its the GOP's fault, no its our fault, no its not my fault I voted D, it Fox News fault. This kind of bullshit is why D's lose over and over again. 

 

 

Edited by High Plains Drifter
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All the people are ultimately responsible for this mess. Either they are uninformed, or not enough people are able to, or willing to, perform enough civic actions to push back against bad policies. 

Disinformation has seriously exacerbated the problem.

Congress from both parties have done little to nothing and are also culpable. 

The Democratic Party in general has been terrible communicators for a long time now, and this has exacerbated the problem. 

These are the facts and they are indisputable.
 

 

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we are starting to get texags-ish up in here; we need a resistance thread but i think we should hold off until a real "rebel alliance" shows itself....

this 50501 thing is cool but no messaging or strategy.......

for example there is going to be a protest in irving on saturday.... at a park.....  with 3 entrances and exits.....  wanna bet maga irving police record every plate coming and going?

https://www.buildtheresistance.org/50501

there was supposed to be a protest in austin today - any reports on local news?

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Baylor has this nonsensical saying about our basketball players that were killed in a bus train accident 100 years ago and it really applies here.

 

"For they are the we of us"

 

It's us, it's our fault. We picked 'em and we continue to pick 'em. Something is rotten in the United States and the elected officials are just rot personified.

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