Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
It bears noting that the government’s not arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because he’s not a citizen. They’re arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because a court can’t compel them to force El Salvador to give him back. They’re saying they can kidnap citizens and send them to a concentration camp they pay another country to run and there’s nothing the kidnapped citizen can do about it.
The Nazis literally gave their victims more due process than this.

This.
If the Trump regime can disappear someone and not be subject to court enforcement because “oh well, we don’t have our hands on him anymore,” they can do and say that as to anyone and everyone. Including you.
This is how it goes, and this is how it ends. The Trump regime now has full power - with no accountability or consequences - to disappear US citizens, political opponents, or anyone it doesn’t like.
It will use that power.
  • Rage+1 3
Posted

the fucking problem with Brisket's fucking over-the-top gotdamn never-ending litany of bitching and moaning doomsday hyperbole...is he's basically been right about everything.

 

we-get-it-david-rose.gif

200 (13).gif

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Posted
6 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It bears noting that the government’s not arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because he’s not a citizen. They’re arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because a court can’t compel them to force El Salvador to give him back. They’re saying they can kidnap citizens and send them to a concentration camp they pay another country to run and there’s nothing the kidnapped citizen can do about it.

The Nazis literally gave their victims more due process than this.

But some college students protested.

Posted
7 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It bears noting that the government’s not arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because he’s not a citizen. They’re arguing that they don’t have to bring him back because a court can’t compel them to force El Salvador to give him back. They’re saying they can kidnap citizens and send them to a concentration camp they pay another country to run and there’s nothing the kidnapped citizen can do about it.

The Nazis literally gave their victims more due process than this.

It's so very Trump.  He and his cabal have figured out that they can try and encant the magic words "national security" and "foreign affairs" and it makes everything he does untouchable.  It's not that far from "Hannibal Lecter."

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
On 3/27/2025 at 5:02 PM, wildcat09 said:

"Existential" and "external" are different words that mean different things. You're really not beating those illiteracy allegations. 

I’m a bit behind on this thread, but in short, an external threat is like space aliens or something, and existential threat is Jean-Paul Sartre pulling a gun on you. It’s a pretty simple distinction.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 3
  • Rage+1 1
Posted
33 minutes ago, Mole said:

I’m a bit behind on this thread, but in short, an external threat is like space aliens or something, and existential threat is Jean-Paul Sartre pulling a gun on you. It’s a pretty simple distinction.

I wouldn’t call aliens a threat. More like salvation at this point. 

  • Hook 'Em 4
Posted
9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

This shit is actually happening. Please stop thread shitting and doing the baghdad bob, Rex.

Problem: Rex and “people like him” like this. Because let’s be honest, brown folks like Mr Garcia aren’t real people anyway and aren’t entitled to any legal protection.
Want to avoid trouble with the law? Then don’t do stupid things, like not being an affluent white person.

You’re such a predictable presumptuous blowhard. I don’t like anything about what is occurring, yet you so want that to be the case because it’s a simple elegant explanation.  There is a ton of horrific shit happening but lemme know when they extend to public beheadings. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Mole said:

I’m a bit behind on this thread, but in short, an external threat is like space aliens or something, and existential threat is Jean-Paul Sartre pulling a gun on you. It’s a pretty simple distinction.

It is simple. When you’re surrounded by countries that want to eradicate you, one of which has nukes, those are the very definition of existential threats, despite your military’s capability and that of your biggest ally. 

Posted

In case anyone missed it, in response to the Salvadoran man that ICE admits was deported by mistake, our VP chimed in with lies and deflection:

 

Quote

"My comment is that according to the court document you apparently didn't read he was a convicted MS-13 gang member with no legal right to be here," he wrote.

"My further comment is that it's gross to get fired up about gang members getting deported while ignoring citizens they victimize."

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-vance-ice-error-man-deported-2053429

The guy was never charged with any crime, let alone convicted of being a gang member.  An immigration judge determined he would face threats from gangs if deported to El Salvador. 

  • Rage+1 4
Posted
14 minutes ago, fuggled said:

In case anyone missed it, in response to the Salvadoran man that ICE admits was deported by mistake, our VP chimed in with lies and deflection:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/jd-vance-ice-error-man-deported-2053429

The guy was never charged with any crime, let alone convicted of being a gang member.  An immigration judge determined he would face threats from gangs if deported to El Salvador. 

Well, our VP lies.  It's kinda what they do.  It's kinda what they are.  Same dude who just said "Greenlanders want us to take over" in the face of an election just a couple of weeks ago where Greenlanders overwhelmingly voted the other way.  We need to quit using the term "misinformation" -- they are liars who traffic in lies, it is their very essence.  If you took lies away from them, they would have nothing, do nothing, and say nothing.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

@Rex Kramer This isn't an attack, so don't worry about putting your guard up -- I do have a genuine question.

Scenario: I fully accept your word that you're not happy about the unconstitutional and, therefore, illegal deportations of migrants who have their proper paperwork. For the moment, let's also say you have a friend or coworker who had done everything right but had a tattoo or something akin to it that, for whatever reason, got them locked up in the Salvadoran prison, which makes you get worked up (I know that you aren't but indulge me and just pretend for a moment), and this causes you to try to convince some of your more skeptical friends that it's unjust and/or dangerous.

Question: What kind of argument would you use with those same friends so that you wouldn't come across as hyperbolic but still be persuasive? This isn't a snarky, gotcha kind of question at all. I'd genuinely like to get your perspective on how to be more effective in communicating concerns with friends and neighbors who may not "get it." I'd consider it a favor if you could help me formulate a good response.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: If you need to think about it for a while, take your time. There's no rush. I understand you have a life outside of Surly.

Edited by bolverk
  • Like 1
Posted
42 minutes ago, bolverk said:

@Rex Kramer This isn't an attack, so don't worry about putting your guard up -- I do have a genuine question.

Scenario: I fully accept your word that you're not happy about the unconstitutional and, therefore, illegal deportations of migrants who have their proper paperwork. For the moment, let's also say you have a friend or coworker who had done everything right but had a tattoo or something akin to it that, for whatever reason, got them locked up in the Salvadoran prison, which makes you get worked up (I know that you aren't but indulge me and just pretend for a moment), and this causes you to try to convince some of your more skeptical friends that it's unjust and/or dangerous.

Question: What kind of argument would you use with those same friends so that you wouldn't come across as hyperbolic but still be persuasive? This isn't a snarky, gotcha kind of question at all. I'd genuinely like to get your perspective on how to be more effective in communicating concerns with friends and neighbors who may not "get it." I'd consider it a favor if you could help me formulate a good response.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: If you need to think about it for a while, take your time. There's no rush. I understand you have a life outside of Surly.

I’m around a number of Latinos, primarily from Monterrey and also Guanajuato of unknown status. I’m close with a few, and if anything happened to them, not only would I be worked up (counter to your assertion), but people “like me” that probably voted for the other side actually know them too, and not only would they be appalled, we’d fight/spend money to do something about it. No question, no hesitation.  

One guy, in particular, just lost his wife to a heartbreaking stroke, and moved here way back when. His son was born here (I think), and is a current US Marine. I’d crusade for that family. 

Posted
50 minutes ago, bolverk said:

What kind of argument would you use with those same friends so that you wouldn't come across as hyperbolic but still be persuasive? This isn't a snarky, gotcha kind of question at all. I'd genuinely like to get your perspective on how to be more effective in communicating concerns with friends and neighbors who may not "get it." I'd consider it a favor if you could help me formulate a good response.

 

I do not think I’d have to do anything hyperbolic whatsoever. There’d be enough HP / HPUMC mafia to intercede. We certainly would not waste time comparing the admin to terrorist groups that, again, might simply behead these people. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, our VP lies.  It's kinda what they do.  It's kinda what they are.  Same dude who just said "Greenlanders want us to take over" in the face of an election just a couple of weeks ago where Greenlanders overwhelmingly voted the other way.  We need to quit using the term "misinformation" -- they are liars who traffic in lies, it is their very essence.  If you took lies away from them, they would have nothing, do nothing, and say nothing.

The truth is whatever they say it is. End of story 

Posted
12 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I do not think I’d have to do anything hyperbolic whatsoever. There’d be enough HP / HPUMC mafia to intercede. We certainly would not waste time comparing the admin to terrorist groups that, again, might simply behead these people. 

So your line is beheading? Kidnapping doesn’t reach the line of terror?

Posted
3 minutes ago, royiv said:

So your line is beheading? Kidnapping doesn’t reach the line of terror?

Lol. No, not my line. You know exactly what I mean and I’m not interested in playing your game. 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I do not think I’d have to do anything hyperbolic whatsoever. There’d be enough HP / HPUMC mafia to intercede. We certainly would not waste time comparing the admin to terrorist groups that, again, might simply behead these people. 

Thanks for the response. Okay, so you're confident your social crowd, church group, work colleagues, etc., would mobilize if it happened to someone they know firsthand and care about and would not need convincing. Empathy is a completely natural human response in that case so that response obviously checks out.

Barring that personal connection, do you believe those folks would be persuadable otherwise? If so, how?

Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Thanks for the response. Okay, so you're confident your social crowd, church group, work colleagues, etc., would mobilize if it happened to someone they know firsthand and care about and would not need convincing. Empathy is a completely natural human response in that case so that response obviously checks out.

Barring that personal connection, do you believe those folks would be persuadable otherwise? If so, how?

Enough would, yes. Without a personal connection to an unfairly jailed Mexican?  Probably not. 

34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm curious what they will mobilize to do and what effect they think it would have. 

Good question. There are probably enough connections to the administration that they’d somehow get him/her out of their hypothetical situation. Absent that, a pressure campaign. Maybe it has no affect whatsoever. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

Enough would, yes. Without a personal connection to an unfairly jailed Mexican?  Probably not. 

Good question. There are probably enough connections to the administration that they’d somehow get him/her out of their hypothetical situation. Absent that, a pressure campaign. Maybe it has no affect whatsoever. 

lol you are describing an oligarchy. you know that right? "enough connections to the administration" lol DO YOU MEAN WHITE PEOPLE?

  • Like 1
Posted
23 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

lol you are describing an oligarchy. you know that right? "enough connections to the administration" lol DO YOU MEAN WHITE PEOPLE?

I was asked a question and answered it. You seem to be under some impression I’m content with what is occurring. 

Posted (edited)

No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

welllll ackshually.....

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/the-austin-area-teen-trump-disappeared-to-el-salvador/

Quote

The day before federal agents arrested him, Carlos Daniel Terán Aguilar got his first American bike. He bought it at the local Goodwill store in Cedar Park—baby blue, BMX-style—and rode it around the neighborhood, doing wheelies in the parking lot of the local Chevron station. A friend took a video to mark the occasion. “¡Ándale!” his friend narrated, laughing as the eighteen-year-old circled on the pavement, adding, also in Spanish, “Baby Jesus arrived late this year, but he arrived!” 

That was Saturday, January 25. On Sunday morning, just past eight, three officers gathered at the Cedar Park home where Daniel—as his family calls him—lived with his father and stepmother, Juan Carlos and Marian Terán, and their two-year-old son, Juan Felipe. They were all from Venezuela, and all were in the country legally. Still, Marian felt nervous when she opened the door and saw the ICE jacket on the lead agent. They were there to arrest Daniel, he said. She asked why, and the ICE agent said they had video footage of him with drugs and guns. The agent didn’t show her a warrant.

She went to Daniel’s bedroom, but he initially refused to come out. “He was really scared,” she told me. “He kept saying, ‘I haven’t done anything.’ ” Finally, he opened the door, and the officers took him outside to put him in handcuffs. By this point, a flurry of vehicles had swarmed the house and ten agents were on the scene. They put him in one of the vans, took his photo, and drove away. (Immigration and Customs Enforcement did not respond to interview requests for this story.)

Three weeks later, ICE put out a news release announcing the arrest, saying Daniel was a member of the notorious Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua and that he was wanted in Chile for “narcotics and weapons trafficking.” In the photo that accompanied the release, Daniel, all of five feet five and 125 pounds, looked even younger than his eighteen years, with short hair, large brown eyes, and a baby face. He looked terrified. He looked like he was about to cry. 

Then, on March 15, Daniel became unreachable. His name has since appeared on a list of 237 other Venezuelans deported to El Salvador and taken to the Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT), a megaprison built by the country’s authoritarian leader, Nayib Bukele, to house the thousands of alleged gang members he had arrested in a 2022 crackdown. CECOT has a capacity for 40,000, making it the largest prison in Latin America and one of the largest in the world; it is, according to a former member of the United Nations Subcommittee on Prevention of Torture, a “concrete and steel pit.” Human Rights Watch, meanwhile, has said it is not aware of any prisoners having ever been released from the complex. Inmates, who are not allowed visitors, are kept in overcrowded cells that are lit around the clock, and they are let out for thirty minutes a day. Philip Holsinger, a photojournalist from Time, was at the prison when the new residents arrived; he reported how they were kicked, slapped, shoved, and stripped naked; their heads were shaved and they were thrown into cells jammed with some eighty other men to sleep on steel slabs. 

Juan Carlos Terán knew all about CECOT and was devastated when he found out where his son was. Daniel wasn’t a member of Tren de Aragua, he said. Daniel wasn’t a gunrunner or a drug trafficker; he had gotten into trouble in Chile when he was sixteen, when he and a couple of other teens were caught with drugs and a gun, but that didn’t make him part of a dangerous crime syndicate. He was a teenager who loved playing soccer with his cousins in the front yard. He had a girlfriend. He had a new bike. 

“My son made a mistake,” said Terán, “smoking marijuana and having the kind of friends who have a gun. But that doesn’t mean that he deserves this kind of injustice, to be in such a prison, somebody who is just a kid who didn’t do anything. He didn’t do anything wrong here.”

Terán, despite being in the country lawfully, is terrified that he and his wife and their toddler son could be next. They’ve talked about returning to Venezuela, where life is dangerous but not as fickle as it is in the U.S., once their visas expire. Terán dreams of Daniel being freed and meeting them there. “I’m thinking like a father,” he said, “which is that my son needs me. He needs me to be present and be supporting him.” He told his son, when Daniel was still in detention, that he would make sure his bike was waiting for him.

Edited by Captainant
  • Rage+1 2
Posted
7 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Every brown person is going to be labeled part of Tren de Aragua, and ain't nobody can stop it

 

Bingo.  "Illegal criminals" are entitled to no due process.  So all the gov't has to do is label...anyone they want to...as an "illegal criminal," and bingo, there's no way to even contest that finding because illegal criminals don't get due process.

We are such a fucking shithole country.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...