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John McCain Passes Away at 81

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28705

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

On rare occasions Trump tries to be a decent human being.  He just isn't capable of it.

'Mr. President, you really have to say something. We'll put something together.'

'Put a picture of Trump on it and add a superfluous exclamation point. That should get approval and might convince people it actually came from POTUS.'

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25497

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RIP Senator. I did not always agree with your politics but I knew you were in it for the right reasons.

My mom ran his CODEL in Bosnia and his team did nothing but speak great things about him when they came over for dinner. 

Those damn Zuni rockets though. 

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

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Quote

 

I recognize and celebrate that our country is founded upon Judeo- Christian values, and I have pledged my life to defend America and all her values – the values that have made us the noblest experiment in history.

But political intolerance by any political party is neither a Judeo-Christian nor an American value. The political tactics of division and slander are not our values. They are corrupting influences on religion and politics, and those who practice them in the name of religion or in the name of the Republican Party or in the name of America shame our faith, our party, and our country

 

From a 2000 campaign speech by McCain...seems he was on to something back then. You can find the whole thing here, and it's worth a read 

https://goplifer.com/2016/09/10/agents-of-intolerance/

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Horn Under a Bad Sign

Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342

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Republican Arizona Senate Candidate suggests that the timing of the McCain announcement was purposefully done to hurt her campaign:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/arizona-senate-candidate-kelli-ward-suggests-john-mccain-statement-on-ending-treatment-timed-to-hurt-her-campaign/ar-BBMrj1E?ocid=sf

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13410

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15 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

McCain did some good and a lot of bad. I think it's a stretch to call him a hero, but I'm certainly not celebrating the death of one of the last remaining sane GOP politicians. 

The guy refused to be released early from a POW camp in vietnam where he was being tortured.   He didn’t want to leave the others behind. He was held prisoner for 5 years.   Two years in solitary confinement.  It’s not like he was there for a few weeks, beat up a couple of times and then involved in a prisoner swap.   

I know that hero gets thrown around for basically every service member but McCain was the real deal.     If you call an average, every-day military members a hero, then a new word needs to be invented for John McCain.

 

 

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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McCain's foreign policy (rabid advocation for war around the globe) was very polarizing.  I've been a vocal critic of his domestic politics for many, many years (anyone remember the McCain/Leiberman hates the Constitution thread on the old site?).  There is a lot of fodder out there about his personal life and military record for those who care to dig that doesn't speak well for his character.

There is an adage that says, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.  I wasn't going to post in this thread.  Some of the hero worship that's being expressed in this thread and in the media is way over the top IMO.

McCain was passionate about his politics.  He fought hard for what he believed in.  That's about the nicest thing I am going to say about him.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26277

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6 minutes ago, I Got Worms said:

I don’t understand all the gushing over this guy from the left leaning posters on the site (other than he hated Trump).  McCain was a warmonger in my opinion and loved him some foreign intervention. Lots of blood on that man’s hands. 

I've always been a fan. I would have voted for him over Gore in 2000 and came close to voting for him in 2008 because I liked his healthcare plan, but Sarah Palin and the Joe the Plumber shit was a dealkiller. 

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ndawg

ndawg 1242

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19 minutes ago, bernorange said:

McCain's foreign policy (rabid advocation for war around the globe) was very polarizing.  I've been a vocal critic of his domestic politics for many, many years (anyone remember the McCain/Leiberman hates the Constitution thread on the old site?).  There is a lot of fodder out there about his personal life and military record for those who care to dig that doesn't speak well for his character.

There is an adage that says, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.  I wasn't going to post in this thread.  Some of the hero worship that's being expressed in this thread and in the media is way over the top IMO.

McCain was passionate about his politics.  He fought hard for what he believed in.  That's about the nicest thing I am going to say about him.

There's validity to what you're saying, but McCain resolutely stood up to an authoritarian takeover of the GOP. That's a pretty substantial last-minute addition to his lifetime wins column.

I won't gush over him, but I can't help but to appreciate that, in the end, he stood on the right side of history at a very important juncture.

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bernorange

bernorange 8348

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Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

... I would have voted for him over Gore in 2000 ...

I would have too.  Back then I had a different opinion of him.  He jumped the shark after 9/11 though.  Whether his post 9/11 political legacy were his true colors pre-9/11 or not, it's rather scary to think what might have been in hindsight.

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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9898

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Posted (edited)

There is no denying that John McCain spent his life in dedicated service to his country and was a proud American.  Like most of us, he was a complex human being.  He brought a lot of important things to our overall national discourse and was one of the major political figures of our time. His voting record and actions as a United States Senator did not always back up his words, but he's not unique in that regard.  

I will say, his decision to not resign his seat once it became clear he was not going to return to Waashington, DC to due his duty and deny the citizens of Arizona a choice in who is their elected representative cannot be overlooked and does stain his legacy.  It was deeply undemocratic.

My interactions with him were always warm, thoughtful, and very productive. My thoughts go out to his family.

Edited by Bateshorn
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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28705

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11 minutes ago, I Got Worms said:

I don’t understand all the gushing over this guy from the left leaning posters on the site (other than he hated Trump).  McCain was a warmonger in my opinion and loved him some foreign intervention. Lots of blood on that man’s hands. 

How many wars did McCain start? At least he opposed torture. He sang "bomb bomb Iran" but we haven't done it yet. As long as Bush and Cheney walk free I don't see any reason to get all up in arms about McCain being a warmonger. He was still on the JV team compared to those two. 

Hopefully when you die everyone will focus on the stupid things you've done and said in your life. McCain is an American hero, without question, and right or wrong he devoted his life to the service of his country. If you don't get why people who often disagreed with him still respected him then that reflects poorly on you. 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17557

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On 8/25/2018 at 8:44 PM, Grandioso said:

If you want a master class in what grace looks like, I highly recommend watching the last episode of Ken Burns' The Vietnam War. 

He could not have stood in starker contrast to the cynical, craven rot that currently inhabits capitol hill. It's going to be interesting watching the Trumpkins and Fox News faithful debate whether they want to "claim" McCain or not. 

By utter coincidence I happened to be watching this as the news flashed on Sen. McCain's passing.  It was overwhelming.  

If you haven't seen the interview of McCain from a Hanoi prison, do yourself that service.  A bit of it is in Episode 5 of Vietnam.

 

 

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Guest

Guest

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I mourn him as a hero and patriot and a man of service. He wasn't perfect, but he did he's best.

I can't imagine 5 years in a POW camp, much less the abuse, pain, and terror associated with both torture and solitary confinement. Try to do the thought exercise of what it's like to spend 5 years in prison in the USA-- just imagine spending 5 years away from your friends, family, career, right before your prime earning years between 32 and 37 years old-- and then add on top of that physical and emotional and mental abuse. A lot of men would not ever be able to recover from that. I have a ton of personal respect, irrespective of politics, for his service and sacrifice in the form of being captured and fighting through all that and facing it with as much strength and bravery as possible and one of the most disgusting things Trump has done in his cavalcade of disgusting acts is denigrating John McCain's suffering and dismissing his service because he likes heroes who don't get caught. That's like saying, "I like veterans who make it home and aren't killed on the battlefield." My opinion is anyone who was okay or cheered that response is disgusting, as well.

I've read a bit about him and the politics that followed him, and I think it's true what is being said in that he was the last generation of political players with the pre-req of service academies/service and his outlook and psychology was necessarily informed by war games and theory. It makes sense why he was such a warmonger (he was) and an unabashed war patriot (the world NEEDS American intervention and our brand) because, as the old adage goes, when all you've ever used was a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

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