Champions League 2018-2019

[Captain Ron 12,789]

5 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

So are you going to stick with brainfart or a miscue...because they mean different things

Your quoting yourself like you proved something...yeah it could of been defended a little better but it was also a great pass that a great striker happened to get a great toe touch on that happened to go right over the crashing keeper

So brainfart (which is usually a big mental collapse) or a slight miscue that allowed a great goal by great players???

If you want to debate semantics about brainfart or miscue, you mighty try the hobbies room. We're here to talk soccer. 

 

Hey, VVD had a pretty good game. But on both open play goals he made mistakes and got caught ball watching. On the Suarez goal, he wasn't the only one, the entire back line got caught flat footed, but still.

https://streamable.com/b7epw

And on the Messi goal he just stood there as Messi came in and had maybe the easiest goal of his career. He wasn't great on the build up either.

https://streamable.com/a75ij

You said it yourself, dude should have defended the plays better, you got a problem with anyone pointing out that maybe the POTY should be expected to do just a little more?

[Bone3421 716]

If you want to debate semantics about brainfart or miscue, you mighty try the hobbies room. We're here to talk soccer. 
 
Hey, VVD had a pretty good game. But on both open play goals he made mistakes and got caught ball watching. On the Suarez goal, he wasn't the only one, the entire back line got caught flat footed, but still.
https://streamable.com/b7epw
And on the Messi goal he just stood there as Messi came in and had maybe the easiest goal of his career. He wasn't great on the build up either.
https://streamable.com/a75ij
You said it yourself, dude should have defended the plays better, you got a problem with anyone pointing out that maybe the POTY should be expected to do just a little more?

Love how you come in and think its all serious business...was having a fun back and forth with mo james
Im not going to fault anyone on a rebound off the post,you never know where those are going to go

[Bone3421 716]

If you want to debate semantics about brainfart or miscue, you mighty try the hobbies room. We're here to talk soccer. 
 
Hey, VVD had a pretty good game. But on both open play goals he made mistakes and got caught ball watching. On the Suarez goal, he wasn't the only one, the entire back line got caught flat footed, but still.
https://streamable.com/b7epw
And on the Messi goal he just stood there as Messi came in and had maybe the easiest goal of his career. He wasn't great on the build up either.
https://streamable.com/a75ij
You said it yourself, dude should have defended the plays better, you got a problem with anyone pointing out that maybe the POTY should be expected to do just a little more?

Mea culpa...got my internet fun mixed ron

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

9 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

Love how you come in and think its all serious business...was having a fun back and forth with mo james
Im not going to fault anyone on a rebound off the post,you never know where those are going to go


 

That's why you don't give up on the play and let the best player in the world get between you and the goal.  

VVD overall had some good moments in the game, but the margin of error for a CB is incredibly small and two goals from open play resulted at least partially due to VVD losing focus or giving up on a play.  That's on him and the criticism is warranted.  

[MoJames 8,241]

9 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

Love how you come in and think its all serious business...was having a fun back and forth with mo james
Im not going to fault anyone on a rebound off the post,you never know where those are going to go

VVD sucks.

[JNip 131]

Not sure if it has been brought up but this is how Messi got the free kick that gave his team the 3-0 lead. 

 

[midtown 3,341]

1 minute ago, JNip said:

Not sure if it has been brought up but this is how Messi got the free kick that gave his team the 3-0 lead. 

 

Haha if you think Messi is getting a 3 game ban.

[JNip 131]

3 minutes ago, midtown said:

Haha if you think Messi is getting a 3 game ban.

No. Just think that this should have been a foul by Messi, not by Fabinho. Some idiot tweeted that, I am just showing the video.

With the amount of bitching and whining that Liverpool fans do, I am surprised that they haven't brought this up. 

 

Here, just for you. Another tweet.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by JNip

[Jograves 357]

I can't get too worked up about that. Whatever. Shit happens on the pitch during collisions. 

What I do take issue with, and this is true with every Spanish club, is the circling of the ref whenever he blows the whistle. The English FA has tried to legislate that out of their league and English clubs are coached not to do it. Spanish clubs do it all the time and it's an advantage, IMO. 

[Bone3421 716]

That's why you don't give up on the play and let the best player in the world get between you and the goal.  
VVD overall had some good moments in the game, but the margin of error for a CB is incredibly small and two goals from open play resulted at least partially due to VVD losing focus or giving up on a play.  That's on him and the criticism is warranted.  

Will have to ask him about it but maybe he was anticipating the ball going wide...its like a rebound in basketball it can go lots of directions but you usually want to be on the oppo side of rim as the shot

Can give him a slight mark down for the great suarez goal but rest is just sour grapes in my opinion...ball hits post a few millimeters over and it goes a different direction

[midtown 3,341]

I'm not saying he shouldn't.  That seemed pretty malicious but UEFA (corrupt) isn't about to throw millions upon millions down the drain with a ban on Messi esp with #7 out.  Maybe next year but not at this point in the CL

[Bone3421 716]

Not sure if it has been brought up but this is how Messi got the free kick that gave his team the 3-0 lead. 
 

At that point i was over wondering what was a foul and what wasnt...kieta got scissored nothing , they grabbed mane/salah's jerseys 80% of time and we got 1 call but heaven forbid we touch them in the last 30 or so mins

[Kringelbert Fishtybuns 943]

Stop being such a merengue.

Fabinho was going in to stop Messi’s run (tactical foul) no matter what.

Messi rose his hand to protect himself and Fabinho gets a hand to the face when he puts his shoulder through Messi’s chest.  

[HenryJames 65,868]

Bunch of Man U and Real fans up in this bitch.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

40 minutes ago, Kringelbert Fishtybuns said:

Stop being such a merengue.

Fabinho was going in to stop Messi’s run (tactical foul) no matter what.

Messi rose his hand to protect himself and Fabinho gets a hand to the face when he puts his shoulder through Messi’s chest.  

 

"Messi rose his hand to protect himself"???????

 

I am not saying he deserves a ban or that Fabinho wasn't going to foul him but holy shit is that a comical statement. He jumped and punched him in the face. 

[ztejas 43,244]

1 minute ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

"Messi rose his hand to protect himself"???????

 

I am not saying he deserves a ban or that Fabinho wasn't going to foul him but holy shit is that a comical statement. He jumped and punched him in the face. 

Fabinho was about to take out a loaded handgun from his shorts and blast Messi away right there on the pitch. Can't believe you think that what Messi did was anything but self-defense. 

#standyourground

[yoladu 4,065]

With Liverpool winning so much this season, we have lost out on all the traditional whiny- baby excuse making that we usually endure.

One loss yesterday brought it all back.

 

Come on y'all...someone one once said said something about taking the loss.....

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by yoladu

[Jograves 357]

1 minute ago, yoladu said:

With Liverpool winning so much this season, we have lost out on all the traditional whiny- baby excuse making that we usually endure.

One loss yesterday brought it all back.

 

Come on y'all...someone one said something about taking the loss..

 

Who isn't taking the loss?

This was our first loss since January and it happened in the CL semis. We're not supposed to be disappointed? 

[yoladu 4,065]

of course, you are allowed to be disappointed.

Edited May 2, 2019 by yoladu

[mdmost 42,775]

Liverpool felt yesterday like Southampton normally feels after a match.

Edited May 2, 2019 by mdmost

[Jograves 357]

5 minutes ago, yoladu said:

of course, you are allowed to be disappointed.

Thanks?

[yoladu 4,065]

28 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Liverpool felt yesterday like Southampton normally feels after a match.

exactly. I am disappointed nearly every time they play. But when we lose 2 - 0 to West Ham this Saturday, i am not gonna whine about Arnautović or Noble.

 

-

[now and the other hand, i will likely whine about VVD, Mane, Tadic, Alderweireld, and Pochettino all playing prominent roles in the UCL semi finals. That is the whining I do  ]

Edited May 2, 2019 by yoladu

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

2 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

Will have to ask him about it but maybe he was anticipating the ball going wide...its like a rebound in basketball it can go lots of directions but you usually want to be on the oppo side of rim as the shot

Can give him a slight mark down for the great suarez goal but rest is just sour grapes in my opinion...ball hits post a few millimeters over and it goes a different direction

And that uncertainty is why you track the man.  He pulls up as soon as the ball goes past him.  If he doesn't give up on the play, but tracks Messi and stays goal side, there is a much lower chance that Messi scores.  

 

[Bone3421 716]

And that uncertainty is why you track the man.  He pulls up as soon as the ball goes past him.  If he doesn't give up on the play, but tracks Messi and stays goal side, there is a much lower chance that Messi scores.  
 

The way it played out there was already a low chance messi was going to score on that play....messi, vvd and every other player behind the play was just cruising foward...for messi to score on that the ball had to hit the post right where it did to bounce right to messi

Round ball hitting round post hits just right to find messi...who was also just jogging and watching and its everyones fault

[ztejas 43,244]

3 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

The way it played out there was already a low chance messi was going to score on that play....messi, vvd and every other player behind the play was just cruising foward...for messi to score on that the ball had to hit the post right where it did to bounce right to messi

Round ball hitting round post hits just right to find messi...who was also just jogging and watching and its everyones fault


 

Or, you know, Suarez could have just put the bunny in the back of the net. 

But yeah, Barca totally lucked out from the ball hitting the crossbar. 

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

1 minute ago, Bone3421 said:

The way it played out there was already a low chance messi was going to score on that play....messi, vvd and every other player behind the play was just cruising foward...for messi to score on that the ball had to hit the post right where it did to bounce right to messi

Round ball hitting round post hits just right to find messi...who was also just jogging and watching and its everyones fault


 

It doesn't matter if there's a low chance.  It's his job to keep goals out.  And Messi didn't give up on the play--he's watching the entire time to see how it develops.  You also have to keep in mind that Messi and VVD have completely different roles to play there and that there are different risks to the way they approach those roles.  If the ball hits off the ball and lands in a spot where Messi could score but he doesn't, the only cost to the team is one missed scoring opportunity.  If VVD gives up on the play and fails to track his man because there's a low chance that Messi will score but Messi does get the ball, then his team has just given up a goal.  Like I said above, the margin of error for a CB is incredibly small--one fuck up can completely change a game in a different way than a fuck up by an attacking player.  VVD fucked up by not tracking Messi and the result was a second goal, which makes it much more difficult for Pool to move on and also changed the tone of the game with Pool playing with less intensity (I won't say they gave up, but it certainly hurt their morale a lot).

[Bone3421 716]

It doesn't matter if there's a low chance.  It's his job to keep goals out.  And Messi didn't give up on the play--he's watching the entire time to see how it develops.  You also have to keep in mind that Messi and VVD have completely different roles to play there and that there are different risks to the way they approach those roles.  If the ball hits off the ball and lands in a spot where Messi could score but he doesn't, the only cost to the team is one missed scoring opportunity.  If VVD gives up on the play and fails to track his man because there's a low chance that Messi will score but Messi does get the ball, then his team has just given up a goal.  Like I said above, the margin of error for a CB is incredibly small--one fuck up can completely change a game in a different way than a fuck up by an attacking player.  VVD fucked up by not tracking Messi and the result was a second goal, which makes it much more difficult for Pool to move on and also changed the tone of the game with Pool playing with less intensity (I won't say they gave up, but it certainly hurt their morale a lot).

My point is i dont see getting bent out of shape and blaming a dude for a bounce of the ball....i have seen the play and like you said everyone on backside is just watching it..maybe the odds say the ball goes long like a rebound in baskteball i mentioned earlier. That would but vvd in perfect spot to blockout messi in race to ball but the ball didnt bounce that way
Messi jogged a little to action side and got rewarded with the bounce of the ball...

[Bone3421 716]

Or, you know, Suarez could have just put the bunny in the back of the net. 
But yeah, Barca totally lucked out from the ball hitting the crossbar. 

The conversation is about vvd vs messi on that play...not the great knee attempt by suarez

[Huckleberry 32,684]

Hahah.

VVD fucked up and everyone knows it. Leave the fanboi alone to make excuses. When Suarez took the shot he was in perfect position on Messi. Because he pulled up (lazily) Messi passed him and was in position for the rebound. At this moment right here VVD knows his clumsy attempt to intercept or deflect Messi's pass has failed. He can also see open field and Messi continuing his movement. VVD should realize he is the only player who can mark Messi for a potential pass back.

Now the ball is being knocked toward Suarez and a pass back to Messi is a real threat depending on Suarez's first touch. After this image VVD continues to slow down and Messi cuts inside of him to position himself for a rebound. VVD makes no effort to position himself but simply slows to a stop.

The moment Suarez hits the shot, VVD still has position on Messi but is rapidly losing it. Messi has already prepared his cut to VVD's left to prepare for a rebound. VVD does nothing to guard against it.

The ball hits the crossbar. VVD looks like he's in position but because he is about to stop moving and Messi is still charging he's already lost but just doesn't know it yet.

"Oh shit. Maybe I should have hustled." Messi has moved 16 yards in the time VVD has moved 11. Barcelona scores because of that.

He's a great, great player and was a deserving winner of the PFA POTY. He fucked up, it happens.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Huckleberry

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

27 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

My point is i dont see getting bent out of shape and blaming a dude for a bounce of the ball....i have seen the play and like you said everyone on backside is just watching it..maybe the odds say the ball goes long like a rebound in baskteball i mentioned earlier. That would but vvd in perfect spot to blockout messi in race to ball but the ball didnt bounce that way
Messi jogged a little to action side and got rewarded with the bounce of the ball...

I'm not blaming him for a bounce of the ball.  I'm blaming him for putting himself in a situation where the bounce of a ball could result in a goal against his team.  He's the most expensive defender to play the game (I think that's still the case) and his team is playing in the Champions League semifinal against a team that doesn't screw up a lot of scoring opportunities.  It's his job to continue with the play regardless of the odds that a ball might or might not bounce a certain way.  Until the ball is out of play, in the hands of his keeper, or cleared down the field, he has to continue with the play.  He didn't.  

[Bone3421 716]

Hahah.
VVD fucked up and everyone knows it. Leave the fanboi alone to make excuses. When Suarez took the shot he was in perfect position on Messi. Because he pulled up (lazily) Messi passed him and was in position for the rebound. At this moment right here VVD knows his clumsy attempt to intercept or deflect Messi's pass has failed. He can also see open field and Messi continuing his movement. VVD should realize he is the only player who can mark Messi for a potential pass back.

Now the ball is being knocked toward Suarez and a pass back to Messi is a real threat depending on Suarez's first touch. After this image VVD continues to slow down and Messi cuts inside of him to position himself for a rebound. VVD makes no effort to position himself but simply slows to a stop.

The moment Suarez hits the shot, VVD still has position on Messi but is rapidly losing it. Messi has already prepared his cut to VVD's left to prepare for a rebound. VVD does nothing to guard against it.

The ball hits the crossbar. VVD looks like he's in position but because he is about to stop moving and Messi is still charging he's already lost but just doesn't know it yet.

"Oh shit. Maybe I should have hustled." Messi has moved 16 yards in the time VVD has moved 11. Barcelona scores because of that.

He's a great, great player and was a deserving winner of the PFA POTY. He fucked up, it happens.

Nothing you just said counters anything i have said...everyone was jogging lazily besides suarez,robertson and alisson...my whole stance is thats the way the ball bounces and you say im making excuse?

Nobody fucked up its just how it goes in sports sometimes....

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

4 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

Nothing you just said counters anything i have said...everyone was jogging lazily besides suarez,robertson and alisson...my whole stance is thats the way the ball bounces and you say im making excuse?

Nobody fucked up its just how it goes in sports sometimes....
 

Yeesh.  This is not a good response.

[Bone3421 716]

I'm not blaming him for a bounce of the ball.  I'm blaming him for putting himself in a situation where the bounce of a ball could result in a goal against his team.  He's the most expensive defender to play the game (I think that's still the case) and his team is playing in the Champions League semifinal against a team that doesn't screw up a lot of scoring opportunities.  It's his job to continue with the play regardless of the odds that a ball might or might not bounce a certain way.  Until the ball is out of play, in the hands of his keeper, or cleared down the field, he has to continue with the play.  He didn't.  

And yet he could have been in perfect position if ball bounced out a little wider...sounds like your blaming where the ball bounced to

Someone take it over to the science thread and find the math on a round ball hitting a round pipe and bouncing in a shallower angle than the entry angle lol

[Bone3421 716]

Yeesh.  This is not a good response.

Thats your opinion...nobody is moving hard or with any purpose on backside...messi is creeping to action side and vvd is on his right

[MoJames 8,241]

8 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

VVD fucked up its just how it goes in sports sometimes....

Improved.

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

1 minute ago, Bone3421 said:

And yet he could have been in perfect position if ball bounced out a little wider...sounds like your blaming where the ball bounced to

Someone take it over to the science thread and find the math on a round ball hitting a round pipe and bouncing in a shallower angle than the entry angle lol

If the ball bounces a little wider there aren't any Barca players to put it in the goal.  That's why you track your man.  Go watch the play again.  If VVD tracks Messi and stays goal side instead of giving up on the play and the ball falls where it did, he's in position to play it out.  If it goes wide right, the ball gets to Mane or another Pool player.  If it goes where VVD was standing, it goes to a Pool player.  The only way Messi gets an open shot on goal off of the rebound is if VVD lets him run free, which he did.  

[Bone3421 716]

If the ball bounces a little wider there aren't any Barca players to put it in the goal.  That's why you track your man.  Go watch the play again.  If VVD tracks Messi and stays goal side instead of giving up on the play and the ball falls where it did, he's in position to play it out.  If it goes wide right, the ball gets to Mane or another Pool player.  If it goes where VVD was standing, it goes to a Pool player.  The only way Messi gets an open shot on goal off of the rebound is if VVD lets him run free, which he did.  

Ive seen the play and now we've entered the loop portion of conversation...so just refer to previous post about ball bouncing and you dont know which way its going to go...yall blame vvd and go with the bounce of the ball

[Captain Ron 12,789]

To me it comes down to this - he gave up on both plays. If he tracks Suarez on goal 1 and Messi on goal 2, and either or both score, I am not having this discussion right now. I am talking about the tremendous effort put forth by either player to get their goal.

But we aren't having that talk. They both made amazing plays. But what has the last page been about? How VVD got caught ball watching.

[Huckleberry 32,684]

1 hour ago, Bone3421 said:

Nothing you just said counters anything i have said...everyone was jogging lazily besides suarez,robertson and alisson...my whole stance is thats the way the ball bounces and you say im making excuse?

Nobody fucked up its just how it goes in sports sometimes....
 

Messi was not jogging lazily, he was moving with a purpose. Your entire theory about how he was playing for a wide bounce makes no sense because there were no Barcelona players out there. What good does defending open grass do for his team in that scenario? His responsibility is to prevent an opposing attacker from getting a rebound. Who gives a shit if a rebound trickles out to open grass and is eventually possessed by Mané? That's a good outcome for him.

And that's the entire problem. The only player VVD was in position to prevent from getting a rebound was Sadio Mané. Meanwhile some guy you may have heard of named Lionel Messi sauntered right past him into a threatening position.

[Bone3421 716]

To me it comes down to this - he gave up on both plays. If he tracks Suarez on goal 1 and Messi on goal 2, and either or both score, I am not having this discussion right now. I am talking about the tremendous effort put forth by either player to get their goal.
But we aren't having that talk. They both made amazing plays. But what has the last page been about? How VVD got caught ball watching.

The first one ill let ya have but it was still a great play from barca...the pass ,the timed run and little toe touch by suarez...sure matip and vvd could of been just slightly quicker but it was a great first goal

[ztejas 43,244]

2 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Or, you know, Suarez could have just put the bunny in the back of the net. 
But yeah, Barca totally lucked out from the ball hitting the crossbar. 

The conversation is about vvd vs messi on that play...not the great knee attempt by suarez

If anything what I said should help your case... Suarez probably finishes that 7 times out of 10. 

[Bone3421 716]

Messi was not jogging lazily, he was moving with a purpose. Your entire theory about how he was playing for a wide bounce makes no sense because there were no Barcelona players out there. What good does defending open grass do for his team in that scenario? His responsibility is to prevent an opposing attacker from getting a rebound. Who gives a shit if a rebound trickles out to open grass and is eventually possessed by Mané? That's a good outcome for him.
And that's the entire problem. The only player VVD was in position to prevent from getting a rebound was Sadio Mané. Meanwhile some guy you may have heard of named Lionel Messi sauntered right past him into a threatening position.

I didnt say he was thinking about wide bounce...i just brought it up as i know in basketball you want to be on oppo side of where shot comes from for rebounds

Im just not bothering placing blame because we got a bad bounce on that play

Still have one game to go and like i said yesterday i didnt see anything yesterday that has me thinking we cant win 4/3-0 at anfield...maybe ball bounces our way next game

[MoJames 8,241]

3 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

I didnt say he was thinking about wide bounce...i just brought it up as i know in basketball you want to be on oppo side of where shot comes from for rebounds

Im just not bothering placing blame because we got a bad bounce on that play

Still have one game to go and like i said yesterday i didnt see anything yesterday that has me thinking we cant win 4/3-0 at anfield...maybe ball bounces our way next game

VVD sucks at basketball.

[Bone3421 716]

VVD sucks at basketball.

Probably not as bad as salah...he does some height to help though

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

26 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

I didnt say he was thinking about wide bounce...i just brought it up as i know in basketball you want to be on oppo side of where shot comes from for rebounds

Im just not bothering placing blame because we got a bad bounce on that play

Still have one game to go and like i said yesterday i didnt see anything yesterday that has me thinking we cant win 4/3-0 at anfield...maybe ball bounces our way next game

This isn't basketball.  Maybe head over to the basketball forum to chat with them about rebounds so that you can stop embarrassing yourself over here.  

[Bone3421 716]

This isn't basketball.  Maybe head over to the basketball forum to chat with them about rebounds so that you can stop embarrassing yourself over here.  

How can you get embarrassed on a sports forum? Are you against analogies?

[MoJames 8,241]

9 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

This isn't basketball.  Maybe head over to the basketball forum to chat with them about rebounds so that you can stop embarrassing yourself over here.  

Ya but CP3 might punch him in the nuts.

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

6 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

12 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

This isn't basketball.  Maybe head over to the basketball forum to chat with them about rebounds so that you can stop embarrassing yourself over here.  

How can you get embarrassed on a sports forum? Are you against analogies?

I'm against stupid analogies.  

[Bone3421 716]

I'm against stupid analogies.  

No such thing...analogies are used for clarification so the simpler the better aka dumbing it down...now there can be analogies that dont make since but those arent analogies just dumb phrases

[Longhornfan1024 1,707]

2 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

4 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

I'm against stupid analogies.  

No such thing...analogies are used for clarification so the simpler the better aka dumbing it down...now there can be analogies that dont make since but those arent analogies just dumb phrases

And . . . we're done here.