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Posted
1 hour ago, Derka said:

he told the police he’d stabbed the other guy; that’s homicide, not murder. until he’s  had a trial and been convicted, he’s not a murderer. it’s not slight nuance, it’s a major, distinctive difference.

This is semantics. Murder is a subset of homicide whose definition can vary by jurisdiction and country. 

This happened in Texas so:

Spoiler

 

Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

 

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

 

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, the person commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or

(4) knowingly manufactures or delivers a controlled substance included in Penalty Group 1-B under Section 481.1022, Health and Safety Code, in violation of Section 481.1123, Health and Safety Code, and an individual dies as a result of injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or introducing into the individual's body any amount of the controlled substance manufactured or delivered by the actor, regardless of whether the controlled substance was used by itself or with another substance, including a drug, adulterant, or dilutant.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(4) that the actor's conduct in manufacturing or delivering the controlled substance was authorized under Chapter 481, Health and Safety Code, or other state or federal law.

So now we have the definition of murder as defined by Texas law. Now, to be convicted of murder, under Texas laws, beyond a reasonable doubt is one way to define murder as a subset of homicide. 

However, to state that just because someone has yet to be convicted of a crime under specific state law mean they are not is well.. a dangerous game. There is absolutely a difference between a convicted murderer and a murderer. However, just because someone isn't convicted, legally, of murder does not mean they aren't a murderer. On the opposite side, just because some IS convicted of murder doesn't mean they are a murderer. Hell, just last page I got slammed when someone assumed I believed all people convicted of a crime are guilty, which I don't because they aren't. Similarly, not all murderers are convicted. 

Do YOU believe/think that there are people who aren't convicted of rape, child molestation or murder are rapists, child molesters or murders?? 

Would YOU say all people convicted of rape, child molestation or murder ARE rapists, child molesters or murderers? 

I don't know your answer, but here is mine. I think there are a lot on both sides of that equation. Innocent people who aren't guilty and guilty people who aren't in prison. 

Based on evidence I am aware of at this point, the offender has admitted to stabbing the victim. The victim died. That is, by definition of Texas law, murder, whether or not he has been convicted, if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court, otherwise. UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

So, we can play semantics games, but using Texas law, based on everything I'm aware of to this point, the defendant appears to be a murder, just one who has yet to be convicted or plead. Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available. 

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Posted

Jesus christ, people. It's fine for random message board assholes to call this kid a murderer. It's also fine for pedantic lawyers to note that he hasn't been convicted. 

He stabbed someone else in the chest with a knife. Intent to kill can be legally presumed by a jury, as has been previously explained, and we're not the fucking jury. Maybe there's some reasonable grounds for a self defense argument, we don't know. And unless there's some evidence that he goes around stabbing other people or torturing cats or something, there's no reason he shouldn't get bail.

This story sucks ass for everyone involved and is example infinity of the stupidity of modern masculinity. Boys used to know how to talk shit and even how to lose a fight without wanting to kill.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Guys…when BurntEyes is the voice of measured, logical reason around here…y’all are FUCKED.
Seriously, spot-on post.

Even worse, I've found babayaga to be completely normal and reasonable in this thread. And I'm only admitting that because I've been drinking tonight.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Even worse, I've found babayaga to be completely normal and reasonable in this thread. And I'm only admitting that because I've been drinking tonight.

Tonight?

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Posted
9 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

This is semantics. Murder is a subset of homicide whose definition can vary by jurisdiction and country. 

This happened in Texas so:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

 

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

 

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, the person commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or

(4) knowingly manufactures or delivers a controlled substance included in Penalty Group 1-B under Section 481.1022, Health and Safety Code, in violation of Section 481.1123, Health and Safety Code, and an individual dies as a result of injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or introducing into the individual's body any amount of the controlled substance manufactured or delivered by the actor, regardless of whether the controlled substance was used by itself or with another substance, including a drug, adulterant, or dilutant.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(4) that the actor's conduct in manufacturing or delivering the controlled substance was authorized under Chapter 481, Health and Safety Code, or other state or federal law.

So now we have the definition of murder as defined by Texas law. Now, to be convicted of murder, under Texas laws, beyond a reasonable doubt is one way to define murder as a subset of homicide. 

However, to state that just because someone has yet to be convicted of a crime under specific state law mean they are not is well.. a dangerous game. There is absolutely a difference between a convicted murderer and a murderer. However, just because someone isn't convicted, legally, of murder does not mean they aren't a murderer. On the opposite side, just because some IS convicted of murder doesn't mean they are a murderer. Hell, just last page I got slammed when someone assumed I believed all people convicted of a crime are guilty, which I don't because they aren't. Similarly, not all murderers are convicted. 

Do YOU believe/think that there are people who aren't convicted of rape, child molestation or murder are rapists, child molesters or murders?? 

Would YOU say all people convicted of rape, child molestation or murder ARE rapists, child molesters or murderers? 

I don't know your answer, but here is mine. I think there are a lot on both sides of that equation. Innocent people who aren't guilty and guilty people who aren't in prison. 

Based on evidence I am aware of at this point, the offender has admitted to stabbing the victim. The victim died. That is, by definition of Texas law, murder, whether or not he has been convicted, if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court, otherwise. UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

So, we can play semantics games, but using Texas law, based on everything I'm aware of to this point, the defendant appears to be a murder, just one who has yet to be convicted or plead. Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available. 

That’s working under the assumption that the information is accurate. None of us were there

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

That’s working under the assumption that the information is accurate. None of us were there

I can only go off information available, which I noted about 5 times. I also noted that more could surface to change my perspective 2 or 3 times. However, the person did confess, was it coerced? Dunno, wasn't there. 

No, none of us were there. None of us are in the Ukraine, none of us were there when people were deported or when Whitehouse policy discussions occurred either. Should we stop discussing what's occurring at any of those locations?

What a silly strawman, you were not there, so you shouldn't form any opinions based on reporting available.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

I can only go off information available, which I noted about 5 times. I also noted that more could surface to change my perspective 2 or 3 times. However, the person did confess, was it coerced? Dunno, wasn't there. 

No, none of us were there. None of us are in the Ukraine, none of us were there when people were deported or when Whitehouse policy discussions occurred either. Should we stop discussing what's occurring at any of those locations?

What a silly strawman, you were not there, so you shouldn't form any opinions based on reporting available.

We don’t know if that confession was coerced by the policeman though 

 

sorry I’m fucking with you.  There have been posts that echo that.   
 

based on what’s being g reported, Anthony is a murderer.  
 

But hey we weren’t there. Maybe Metcalf charged him with the knife and Melo disarmed him.  

Posted
11 hours ago, Deej said:

So you know he didn't have intent to kill him?

That is, though, precisely the point.  Until he is tried and convicted, or pleads guilty, he's not a murderer.

It certainly appears that he is guilty of a homicide crime, most likely murder, but we don't know the full story yet, either.  And some aspects of the full story could provide defenses that lead to acquittal or reduction of the crime to manslaughter.

We don't convict people of crimes based on appearances.  That statement seems to work better when the apparent facts seem more complicated than what we see here, but it is nevertheless just as true.

Posted
9 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Even worse, I've found babayaga to be completely normal and reasonable in this thread. And I'm only admitting that because I've been drinking tonight.

My bad.......

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Posted
9 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

This is semantics. Murder is a subset of homicide whose definition can vary by jurisdiction and country. 

This happened in Texas so:

  Hide contents

 

Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

 

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

 

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, the person commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or

(4) knowingly manufactures or delivers a controlled substance included in Penalty Group 1-B under Section 481.1022, Health and Safety Code, in violation of Section 481.1123, Health and Safety Code, and an individual dies as a result of injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or introducing into the individual's body any amount of the controlled substance manufactured or delivered by the actor, regardless of whether the controlled substance was used by itself or with another substance, including a drug, adulterant, or dilutant.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(4) that the actor's conduct in manufacturing or delivering the controlled substance was authorized under Chapter 481, Health and Safety Code, or other state or federal law.

So now we have the definition of murder as defined by Texas law. Now, to be convicted of murder, under Texas laws, beyond a reasonable doubt is one way to define murder as a subset of homicide. 

However, to state that just because someone has yet to be convicted of a crime under specific state law mean they are not is well.. a dangerous game. There is absolutely a difference between a convicted murderer and a murderer. However, just because someone isn't convicted, legally, of murder does not mean they aren't a murderer. On the opposite side, just because some IS convicted of murder doesn't mean they are a murderer. Hell, just last page I got slammed when someone assumed I believed all people convicted of a crime are guilty, which I don't because they aren't. Similarly, not all murderers are convicted. 

Do YOU believe/think that there are people who aren't convicted of rape, child molestation or murder are rapists, child molesters or murders?? 

Would YOU say all people convicted of rape, child molestation or murder ARE rapists, child molesters or murderers? 

I don't know your answer, but here is mine. I think there are a lot on both sides of that equation. Innocent people who aren't guilty and guilty people who aren't in prison. 

Based on evidence I am aware of at this point, the offender has admitted to stabbing the victim. The victim died. That is, by definition of Texas law, murder, whether or not he has been convicted, if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court, otherwise. UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

So, we can play semantics games, but using Texas law, based on everything I'm aware of to this point, the defendant appears to be a murder, just one who has yet to be convicted or plead. Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available. 

While the general thrust of your post is correct, from everything we know it is clear that he killed someone. However, if it was in self defense, which isn't entirely inconsistent with reports from other witnesses, then it would not be murder and he would not be a murder. He would however still be a killer. And that carries its own internal and external burdens. 

Posted

Right now, that a fight went deadly is about all we know.  The difference between whether it was justified or not, we don't know enough about yet.

Centennial is still a decently nice area right?  Most of the national media is framing this completely wrong and making sorta racist assumptions.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That is, though, precisely the point.  Until he is tried and convicted, or pleads guilty, he's not a murderer.

It certainly appears that he is guilty of a homicide crime, most likely murder, but we don't know the full story yet, either.  And some aspects of the full story could provide defenses that lead to acquittal or reduction of the crime to manslaughter.

We don't convict people of crimes based on appearances.  That statement seems to work better when the apparent facts seem more complicated than what we see here, but it is nevertheless just as true.

Well, you missed my point. Derka said it wasn't murder. He doesn't know that. Just like you say we don't know that it is. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

While the general thrust of your post is correct, from everything we know it is clear that he killed someone. However, if it was in self defense, which isn't entirely inconsistent with reports from other witnesses, then it would not be murder and he would not be a murder. He would however still be a killer. And that carries its own internal and external burdens. 

UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

 

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available

I specifically noted that there might be factors we are unaware of and made it clear that my own perception might change more than once. I also specifically referred to facts as we are aware of them.

So, I'm not really clear why you felt compelled to reinforce something I had already point out in the post and in previous posts on the subject of murder/homicide under Texas law in this very thread.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That is, though, precisely the point.  Until he is tried and convicted, or pleads guilty, he's not a murderer.

It certainly appears that he is guilty of a homicide crime, most likely murder, but we don't know the full story yet, either.  And some aspects of the full story could provide defenses that lead to acquittal or reduction of the crime to manslaughter.

We don't convict people of crimes based on appearances.  That statement seems to work better when the apparent facts seem more complicated than what we see here, but it is nevertheless just as true.

We are discussing it based on the facts we are currently aware of in the case. Based on what we currently know, it appears to be murder. Yes, that could change based on new evidence and we can discuss that new evidence when it surfaces. 

You can obviously choose to align the term of murder only to someone who has been convicted of the crime. However, be forewarned if that is how you decide to define it, you're a hypocrite if you define anyone as innocent who has yet to be acquitted of all charges they have been convicted of despite all evidence supporting their innocence.

I think it pretty narrow minded to limit the use of a word based solely on what the courts decide via by a jury/judge/plead. 

In the purest definition, under legal aspects, it is accurate, but it is it very small minded and often inaccurate in the wider view of the world. Neither Hilter nor Stalin were convicted of war crimes... doesn't mean they were not War Criminals.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
11 hours ago, Deej said:

But yet you seem to know his intent. 

Intent does not fucking matter.

I covered this a couple of pages back but here is the Texas law.

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual

Unless the accused did not KNOW using a knife could cause serious bodily injury OR there are other factors we are yet unaware of that might point to self defense, based on Texas LAW...

If you intentionally stab someone, and they die it is murder.

Period.

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

oj simpson trump GIF
 

What a relief amirite

Go ahead and post the pics of all the serial killers and mass shooters who offed themselves before convictions too.

They aren't murderers, they weren't convinced.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

 

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available

I specifically noted that there might be factors we are unaware of and made it clear that my own perception might change more than once. I also specifically referred to facts as we are aware of them.

So, I'm not really clear why you felt compelled to reinforce something I had already point out in the post and in previous posts on the subject of murder/homicide under Texas law in this very thread.

1.) I wasn't attacking you at all. I don't know why you feel compelled to defend yourself as if I were. Don't be so sensitive. 

2.) You referenced that there may be circumstances you weren't aware of, so I provided some additional context for reference (his claim of self defense, the accounts of witnesses saying he was pushed)

3.) I wanted to emphasize that even in the absolute best case for him, he stills walks away a killer and has to live with the ramifications of that. People need to think more about the potential ramifications of their actions, including choosing not to walk away from conflict. 99.9% of the time, it isn't worth it even if it is "your right". 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
1 hour ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

We don’t know if that confession was coerced by the policeman though 

 

sorry I’m fucking with you.  There have been posts that echo that.   
 

based on what’s being g reported, Anthony is a murderer.  
 

But hey we weren’t there. Maybe Metcalf charged him with the knife and Melo disarmed him.  

I'm pretty sure this was a very crafty shell game concocted by the Town Lake Serial killer aka @Nicole44 Pretty sure she's back in the country and I'm sure there is sea bass and wine available in Frisco. She's not murderer though since there are no convictions, she's an artist.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

1.) I wasn't attacking you at all. I don't know why you feel compelled to defend yourself as if I were. Don't be so sensitive. 

2.) You referenced that there may be circumstances you weren't aware of, so I provided some additional context for reference (his claim of self defense, the accounts of witnesses saying he was pushed)

3.) I wanted to emphasize that even in the absolute best case for him, he stills walks away a killer and has to live with the ramifications of that. People need to think more about the potential ramifications of their actions, including choosing not to walk away from conflict. 99.9% of the time, it isn't worth it even if it is "your right". 

Fair, its clear my perception was inaccurate. 

As for point 3, the second rule to solid self defense trainng is conflict avoidance, that comes after awareness. Avoidance can come in a lot of forms including de-escalation buy the easiest one is simply leaving the area where the trouble exists. You've every right NOT to leave, but more time than not it is the best choice and its poor self defense practice not to. You can never close that door once you cross a certain threshold and there's a good possibility it will alter the rest of your life if it goes to certain extremes.

Your mileage may vary.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

and I'm sure there is sea bass and wine available in Frisco

We do have a grocery store with a bar inside.  All the gray-hairs hang out there and the bartender knows my beer as soon as I walk in and starts pouring it so I can walk around with a drink 

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Posted
1 hour ago, JBJ said:

Right now, that a fight went deadly is about all we know.  The difference between whether it was justified or not, we don't know enough about yet.

Centennial is still a decently nice area right?  Most of the national media is framing this completely wrong and making sorta racist assumptions.

I’ve never been to Frisco or even spent much time in DFW. But looking at the TAPR profile (statewide accountability system for schools) for each school, the school that Metcalf went to actually has a lot more economically disadvantaged students and was a lot more racially diverse than Anthony’s school. Centennial (Anthony) is actually 51% Asian and only has about 9% “poor” students enrolled. Memorial (Metcalf) has 21% poor students, and whites making up the largest chunk of the student body, but only at 37%. 
 

and TIL that not all affluent Dallas suburbs are Southlake carroll copies

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

So what I've gathered from this rather lengthy thread is that this is a very complicated case. Lot of ins lot of outs lot of whathaveyous?

Bro, do you even murder?

Ms Nicole killed the victim in the tent with a knife, but she's not a murderer.

Also, Frisco has a grocery store that serves beer and I write with sincere regards most of the time. Not that the last aspect is a revelation to anyone.

Regards,

BE

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
16 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

So what I've gathered from this rather lengthy thread is that this is a very complicated case. Lot of ins lot of outs lot of whathaveyous?

I think its going to end up being very simple.  This kid took a knife to a track meet, ended up in an argument, and stabbed another kid to death. 

Posted
1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think its going to end up being very simple.  This kid took a knife to a track meet, ended up in an argument, and stabbed another kid to death. 

Yes and then claiming self defense as if a person trying to get you out of his tent will warrant taking a knife out and stabbing that person right in the chest and killing him. I'm sure the lawyers will get this reduced to manslaughter or something.

Posted
3 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

Yes and then claiming self defense as if a person trying to get you out of his tent will warrant taking a knife out and stabbing that person right in the chest and killing him. I'm sure the lawyers will get this reduced to manslaughter or something.

I honestly think he’ll end up pleading to murder in exchange for getting out in like thirty years. I’m probably OK  with that. 

Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Places weapons prohibited is the Penal
Code infraction for having a pocket knife on school property. By law, he wasn’t allowed to be in possession of the weapon he used to “defend himself”. He escalated the entire encounter with his own illegal activity. The law doggery should be interesting with this one

Having an illegal weapon does not mean you cannot claim self defense.  Plenty of concealed carry holders carrying in a prohibited place or unlicensed holders (pre constitutional carry) used their guns in self defense.  Self defense is still available.  You can be prosecuted for illegally carrying.

My understanding is that if a knife blade is under 5.5", it is not illegal to carry on school grounds or premises.  Over 5.5" blade is a felony.  At least for an adult.  Perhaps there is a different rule for minors.

Now, they can argue him bringing a weapon with him is circumstantial evidence of premeditation.

 

Edited by Frank Drebin
Posted

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

Posted (edited)

 

18 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

How on earth would anyone know that? That just sounds like people making up bullshit. 

 

Facebook how does it work?

 

 

17 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

And given the case, imo, this is a reasonable choice. Frankly, bail, last I checked is 10% non-refundable of the total. So, at $250k that's $25k they aren't getting back innocent or not and I'd wager there aren't a lot of folks that can afford to lose $25k before lawyer's fees. 

When it was $1m I'd argue that as unreasonable given the circumstances even though its a murder charge. 

 

I think this is only true if you use a bail bondsman. The court refunds all the bail when you show for trial. Don't ask me how I know that.

 

 

Edited by High Plains Drifter
nuance
Posted
32 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

 

Karmelo's coach or the twins' coach?

 

Posted
3 hours ago, JBJ said:

Right now, that a fight went deadly is about all we know.  The difference between whether it was justified or not, we don't know enough about yet.

Centennial is still a decently nice area right?  Most of the national media is framing this completely wrong and making sorta racist assumptions.

I appreciate the talent you appear to have in framing a narrative. A fight that went deadly. That’s hysterical. 

Posted
3 hours ago, JBJ said:

Right now, that a fight went deadly is about all we know.  The difference between whether it was justified or not, we don't know enough about yet.

Centennial is still a decently nice area right?  Most of the national media is framing this completely wrong and making sorta racist assumptions.

I think one can deduce the Anthony’s are likely wealthier than the Metcalfe’s.  
 

some internet sleuths may have found the alleged new home, priced at 863k

Posted
1 hour ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

I am betting that is complete bullshit based on everything from the scare quotes around tragedy to the non sequitur about Illinois.  I’m pretty confident that every school district employee involved in any way has been told to STFU and stay off of the internet. 

Posted
41 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

 

Facebook how does it work?

 

 

 

I think this is only true if you use a bail bondsman. The court refunds all the bail when you show for trial. Don't ask me how I know that.

 

 

That's true, but if you dont use a bail bondsman you have to produce the entire amount.

Posted
1 hour ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

I'm pretty close to this and the parents put out a statement earlier indicating that neither boy had any prior contact with one another and there had been no earlier altercations.  This could be a giant smokescreen to try and downplay any indications that this was premeditated.  We'll have to see this play out.  

Posted
Just now, BabaYaga said:

We'll have to see this play out.  

Being that there are eleventy hundred dueling narratives out there.....ranging from extremes of "this was pre-meditated and planned murder from the get-go" to "he should get off entirely because it was self-defense"....with a shitload of narratives in between, then yeah.  This is actually why we have an adversarial system of justice: get the evidence out there and decide what actually happened.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I am betting that is complete bullshit based on everything from the scare quotes around tragedy to the non sequitur about Illinois.  I’m pretty confident that every school district employee involved in any way has been told to STFU and stay off of the internet. 

Yeah, the part about Illinois immediately raised my suspicion, but not prior to the lack of any sources on the story. I put as much faith in that as the lost visitor savior stories on Texags at this point.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Being that there are eleventy hundred dueling narratives out there.....ranging from extremes of "this was pre-meditated and planned murder from the get-go" to "he should get off entirely because it was self-defense"....with a shitload of narratives in between, then yeah.  This is actually why we have an adversarial system of justice: get the evidence out there and decide what actually happened.

Allowing a court case to proceed, getting a full grasp of all the details and evidence, and coming up with an opinion on what occurred after rather than jumping to conclusions immediately.... ain't nobody got time for that! 

I need to formulate my position on the topic with scant details, vague non-citied stories and whether or not there was access to sea bass. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

Having an illegal weapon does not mean you cannot claim self defense.  Plenty of concealed carry holders carrying in a prohibited place or unlicensed holders (pre constitutional carry) used their guns in self defense.  Self defense is still available.  You can be prosecuted for illegally carrying.

My understanding is that if a knife blade is under 5.5", it is not illegal to carry on school grounds or premises.  Over 5.5" blade is a felony.  At least for an adult.  Perhaps there is a different rule for minors.

Now, they can argue him bringing a weapon with him is circumstantial evidence of premeditation.

 

The premeditated aspect only comes into play on a murder charge as it relates to Capital Murder, which has a different legal standard than Murder. Again, unless he was attacked and defending himself, or some other yet unknown facts present themselves, if you stab someone with a knife, and they die, by Texas legal code, that's murder. 

Posted
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name="BurntEyes" userid="[emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]"] The premeditated aspect only comes into play on a murder charge as it relates to Capital Murder, which has a different legal standard than Murder. Again, unless he was attacked and defending himself, or some other yet unknown facts present themselves, if you stab someone with a knife, and they die, by Texas legal code, that's murder. 

Premeditation does not have anything to do with Capital Murder or any other type of homicide under Texas law.
Posted (edited)

Fuck, using tapa talk and quoting should be a legal defense for stabbing someone in the heart.

Edit - And it does under the Terroristic Threat aspect of capital murder A 3:

TERRORISTIC THREAT. (a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

 

(1) cause a reaction of any type to his threat by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;

 

(2) place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

 

(3) prevent or interrupt the occupation or use of a building, room, place of assembly, place to which the public has access, place of employment or occupation, aircraft, automobile, or other form of conveyance, or other public place;

This is nuance I might be missing reading and I'm happy to be corrected about the definition of Capital Murder.

However, none of that alters:

If you stab someone with a knife, and they die, its murder

Unless there are other circumstances that occurred.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

The premeditated aspect only comes into play on a murder charge as it relates to Capital Murder, which has a different legal standard than Murder. Again, unless he was attacked and defending himself, or some other yet unknown facts present themselves, if you stab someone with a knife, and they die, by Texas legal code, that's murder. 

I really meant rebutting sudden passion defense or mitigation

Posted
2 hours ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

This is how you fundraise a half a mill for a new house and car

*accurate or not

Posted
2 hours ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Saw this on trusty internet. Premeditation and self defense soups both be in play:

 

This is the story according to the coach:
The week before last, Austin & Karmelo had a fight at a party. Karmelo lost-took the L and walked away. Austin & his twin brother had friends at Karmelo’s school who started to harass him so he stayed home for a couple of days. On the day of the “tragedy”, Karmelo went to the other school for a track meet. He was sitting in the bleachers and it started to rain. The coach told him to go and sit under the tent. He was under the tent with his friends when the Metcalfe twins came over to the tent. They told him to go and when he didn’t move, Austin grabbed his phone and threw it so it broke. The twins then proceeded to jump him with Austin on top of Karmelo. Karmelo pulled out the knife and stabbed Austin. When Austin got up, that’s when his twin realized he had been hurt. Texas is a stand your ground state and self defense is different in stand your ground states than it is in Illinois. Karmelo had the right to defend himself and his property.

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