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Posted
18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

You guys are making a lot of absolutes without knowing the full story. Reading the statements it sounds like he was told to leave and said no. Then it seems like someone put their hands on him. He warned them. Someone put their hands on him again. He warned them again. Then someone attacked him and he stabbed them. Depending on what that attack looks like on video matters to what happens. I heard rumors of him ending up on his back with Metcalf on top of him which I don't know if it is true or not, but would go a long way toward explaining how a slight guy like that could get a knife that deep in someone in a single blow. 215lbs on top of a knife will help that happen.

If video comes out and its Metcalf smacking a phone out of his hand. Getting warned. Shoving him and getting warned again. Then Metcalf tackling him over the bleachers, and especially if more than one person was involved, could change the narrative around a murder charge. The thing that I am paying attention to is we have not heard any version of this story that didn't have Austin getting physical with Anthony. Not even the most favorable versions.

You are missing the point.  Let's assume that most of what you said is true- even though there is a police report where they interviewed many of the 30 or so people that watched the incident and every one of them basically says the same thing- that Metcalf approached Anthony and told him to leave the tent area, that then Anthony dug in his bag and retrieved something- then Anthony told Metcalf to "touch me or hit me and see what happens" and then Metcalf pushed him and then Anthony stabbed him.- and the knife was still in the bleachers when police arrived and they taped it to the bleachers and photographed it.  So lets just assume all of the witnesses are lying and colluding to frame Anthony and that Metcalf somehow did everything you said, it still doesn't matter.  Even in your crazy scenario you admit that Anthony "warned" Metcalf not to touch him.  To claim self defense you can not, in any way, escalate the situation or act as an aggressor and then stab someone when you had the ability to leave the scene without any harm to anyone.  Thats it.

I do not want the kid convicted of murder.  I think he was young and dumb and made a fatal mistake.  But he is going to prison.  The only thing now is for how long.  I hope they reach a plea agreement where he gets out in time to have a life.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

You guys are making a lot of absolutes without knowing the full story. Reading the statements it sounds like he was told to leave and said no. Then it seems like someone put their hands on him. He warned them. Someone put their hands on him again. He warned them again. Then someone attacked him and he stabbed them. Depending on what that attack looks like on video matters to what happens. I heard rumors of him ending up on his back with Metcalf on top of him which I don't know if it is true or not, but would go a long way toward explaining how a slight guy like that could get a knife that deep in someone in a single blow. 215lbs on top of a knife will help that happen.

If video comes out and its Metcalf smacking a phone out of his hand. Getting warned. Shoving him and getting warned again. Then Metcalf tackling him over the bleachers, and especially if more than one person was involved, could change the narrative around a murder charge. The thing that I am paying attention to is we have not heard any version of this story that didn't have Austin getting physical with Anthony. Not even the most favorable versions.

Haven’t heard a version where Anthony didn’t stab Metcalf in the heart yet

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Posted
42 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I think he was young and dumb and made a fatal mistake.  But he is going to prison.  The only thing now is for how long.  I hope they reach a plea agreement where he gets out in time to have a life.

I agree with all of this.  I hope he redeems himself also.  I seriously doubt this kid is inherently murderous and evil.  I think he did a really, really stupid and evil thing.

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Posted
44 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

I do not want the kid convicted of murder.  I think he was young and dumb and made a fatal mistake.  But he is going to prison.  The only thing now is for how long.  I hope they reach a plea agreement where he gets out in time to have a life.

LL Cool J played an interesting character (death row prisoner) in an episode of House MD, and one of the lines he gave has always stuck with me (paraphrasing): "Imagine your whole life being about the worst mistake you ever made."

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Posted

I’m sick and tired of the stories that you always tell / Shakespeare couldn’t tell a story that well / See, you’re the largest liar that was ever created / You and Pinocchio are probably related ~ LL Cool J

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Posted
1 hour ago, Frank Drebin said:

I agree with all of this.  I hope he redeems himself also.  I seriously doubt this kid is inherently murderous and evil.  I think he did a really, really stupid and evil thing.

Money turns itself over roughly every 7 years in the (normal) markets.  GoFund me knockoff is holding well over half million now.  There's a chance he could come out of this a millionaire before his classmates finish grad school.   What a deterrent.  

Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Money turns itself over roughly every 7 years in the (normal) markets.  GoFund me knockoff is holding well over half million now.  There's a chance he could come out of this a millionaire before his classmates finish grad school.   What a deterrent.  

Meh.  500k will burn up pretty quickly as they need it for trial, potentially new housing, etc

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Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Money turns itself over roughly every 7 years in the (normal) markets.  GoFund me knockoff is holding well over half million now.  There's a chance he could come out of this a millionaire before his classmates finish grad school.   What a deterrent.  

If it goes to him, I am guessing Metcalf's heirs will filed tort claims and get it all.

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Posted
1 hour ago, sheeeit said:

You are missing the point.  Let's assume that most of what you said is true- even though there is a police report where they interviewed many of the 30 or so people that watched the incident and every one of them basically says the same thing- that Metcalf approached Anthony and told him to leave the tent area, that then Anthony dug in his bag and retrieved something- then Anthony told Metcalf to "touch me or hit me and see what happens" and then Metcalf pushed him and then Anthony stabbed him.- and the knife was still in the bleachers when police arrived and they taped it to the bleachers and photographed it.  So lets just assume all of the witnesses are lying and colluding to frame Anthony and that Metcalf somehow did everything you said, it still doesn't matter.  Even in your crazy scenario you admit that Anthony "warned" Metcalf not to touch him.  To claim self defense you can not, in any way, escalate the situation or act as an aggressor and then stab someone when you had the ability to leave the scene without any harm to anyone.  Thats it.

I do not want the kid convicted of murder.  I think he was young and dumb and made a fatal mistake.  But he is going to prison.  The only thing now is for how long.  I hope they reach a plea agreement where he gets out in time to have a life.

I am looking at the police report right now.

Officer Fischer says he took the boys in the locker room. He says that at that time Hunter and the EP kid, who seemed to be friends with Anthony, were both two hysterical to talk. Looks like a 3rd boy spoke and said this-

 

Screenshot(677).thumb.png.683e9981e63c7261d1224253cab5028f.png

 

 

then officer Wetzel says a witness told him this-

 

2nd.thumb.png.ee28a16a0ad35c060ddda19270214654.png

 

Now obviously these two interviews are inconsistent. One paints a picture that Austin pushed him then Anthony had time to reach around in his bag and then stabbed Austin and ran. The second one paints a scenario where Austin did something to him AND THEN Anthony pulled a knife from his bag as Austin grabbed him and stabbed him. Both of these, plus what Hunter said, are the kindest versions of what happened. The parent on youtube who said both boys jumped on him. Here is what we do know. The situation went on long enough for kids to pull out their phones and start recording. That tells us more than what we know "went on" happened, because for that many witnesses to see, and that many phones to be confiscated, it clearly was more than what was said. A situation has to be going on for quite awhile, with a lot of shouting and tussling, for that many kids to take notice. Also, the cameras don't really come out until kids think its going to be a fight and that is usually once someone does something to another kid. It is also highly unlikely that while Austin and Karmelo were squaring off all the other boys were "sitting minding their own business". So if a video shows one kid standing against what looks to be more than one person then we are talking about an entirely different LOOKING scenario. So it really just depends on what the video shows. I am clearly in the "lets wait for the facts" crowd on this one.

 

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Posted

Anthony alone turned what should've been at worst a run-of-the-mill fist-fight/rumble between rival high schools into a situation where a kid lost his life. Period. The knife was an unnecessary escalation.

I'll leave it to the lawyers and judges to determine whether he goes away for murder or something lesser but he's barring some major revelation, he's going away for (hopefully) the stupidest decision he makes in his life.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I am looking at the police report right now.

Officer Fischer says he took the boys in the locker room. He says that at that time Hunter and the EP kid, who seemed to be friends with Anthony, were both two hysterical to talk. Looks like a 3rd boy spoke and said this-

 

Screenshot(677).thumb.png.683e9981e63c7261d1224253cab5028f.png

 

 

then officer Wetzel says a witness told him this-

 

2nd.thumb.png.ee28a16a0ad35c060ddda19270214654.png

 

Now obviously these two interviews are inconsistent. One paints a picture that Austin pushed him then Anthony had time to reach around in his bag and then stabbed Austin and ran. The second one paints a scenario where Austin did something to him AND THEN Anthony pulled a knife from his bag as Austin grabbed him and stabbed him. Both of these, plus what Hunter said, are the kindest versions of what happened. The parent on youtube who said both boys jumped on him. Here is what we do know. The situation went on long enough for kids to pull out their phones and start recording. That tells us more than what we know "went on" happened, because for that many witnesses to see, and that many phones to be confiscated, it clearly was more than what was said. A situation has to be going on for quite awhile, with a lot of shouting and tussling, for that many kids to take notice. Also, the cameras don't really come out until kids think its going to be a fight and that is usually once someone does something to another kid. It is also highly unlikely that while Austin and Karmelo were squaring off all the other boys were "sitting minding their own business". So if a video shows one kid standing against what looks to be more than one person then we are talking about an entirely different LOOKING scenario. So it really just depends on what the video shows. I am clearly in the "lets wait for the facts" crowd on this one.

 

I appreciate your fervancy in being a devil's advocate and critical thinker to ensure that the truth rises to the top. Seriously, no kidding about. I think every jury of 12 should have a @Thatguyon it and justice would be better served over the long run.

That said, let's say you end up being wrong to woefully wrong here. Are you going to admit it?

Posted
18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I am looking at the police report right now.

Officer Fischer says he took the boys in the locker room. He says that at that time Hunter and the EP kid, who seemed to be friends with Anthony, were both two hysterical to talk. Looks like a 3rd boy spoke and said this-

 

Screenshot(677).thumb.png.683e9981e63c7261d1224253cab5028f.png

 

 

then officer Wetzel says a witness told him this-

 

2nd.thumb.png.ee28a16a0ad35c060ddda19270214654.png

 

Now obviously these two interviews are inconsistent. One paints a picture that Austin pushed him then Anthony had time to reach around in his bag and then stabbed Austin and ran. The second one paints a scenario where Austin did something to him AND THEN Anthony pulled a knife from his bag as Austin grabbed him and stabbed him. Both of these, plus what Hunter said, are the kindest versions of what happened. The parent on youtube who said both boys jumped on him. Here is what we do know. The situation went on long enough for kids to pull out their phones and start recording. That tells us more than what we know "went on" happened, because for that many witnesses to see, and that many phones to be confiscated, it clearly was more than what was said. A situation has to be going on for quite awhile, with a lot of shouting and tussling, for that many kids to take notice. Also, the cameras don't really come out until kids think its going to be a fight and that is usually once someone does something to another kid. It is also highly unlikely that while Austin and Karmelo were squaring off all the other boys were "sitting minding their own business". So if a video shows one kid standing against what looks to be more than one person then we are talking about an entirely different LOOKING scenario. So it really just depends on what the video shows. I am clearly in the "lets wait for the facts" crowd on this one.

 

Kudos for digging in I guess.  But you still keep missing the main factor.  All the witnesses say Anthony said something to the effect of "touch me and see what happens or punch/hit me and see what happens".  Legally you can not go up to someone or respond to a confrontation knowing you have a knife and escalate the situation in any way.  When Anthony challenged Metcalf, regardless of what Metcalf did first, his self defense claims go out the window.  You really seem to not like that but it is the law.

Further, Anthony's statements to the cops are "he put his hands on me".  Not 2 guys jumping him or tackling him or he punched me or tackled me or some mysterious group surrounding him ready to beat him.  Not a single witness said anything about a group of people involved.  He, singular, put his hands on me is what he said.

Lastly, the ONLY way your ridiculous scenario involving multiple people "standing against" him could be possible would involve multiple people in the middle of the day at a track meet in the bleachers which are visible to everyone at the track meet (parents/coaches/fans/participants) that surrounded Anthony to a point that he could not escape and then attacked him and he used a knife to defend himself.  By all accounts, Anthony could have just left the tent when asked to do so.   He chose to stay and confront Metcalf and had a knife that he brought out and used.  

My guess, based on what we know so far, is he will plead to manslaughter and get 7-10 years.  I think that would be pretty fair. 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I am looking at the police report right now.

Officer Fischer says he took the boys in the locker room. He says that at that time Hunter and the EP kid, who seemed to be friends with Anthony, were both two hysterical to talk. Looks like a 3rd boy spoke and said this-

 

Screenshot(677).thumb.png.683e9981e63c7261d1224253cab5028f.png

 

 

then officer Wetzel says a witness told him this-

 

2nd.thumb.png.ee28a16a0ad35c060ddda19270214654.png

 

Now obviously these two interviews are inconsistent. One paints a picture that Austin pushed him then Anthony had time to reach around in his bag and then stabbed Austin and ran. The second one paints a scenario where Austin did something to him AND THEN Anthony pulled a knife from his bag as Austin grabbed him and stabbed him. Both of these, plus what Hunter said, are the kindest versions of what happened. The parent on youtube who said both boys jumped on him. Here is what we do know. The situation went on long enough for kids to pull out their phones and start recording. That tells us more than what we know "went on" happened, because for that many witnesses to see, and that many phones to be confiscated, it clearly was more than what was said. A situation has to be going on for quite awhile, with a lot of shouting and tussling, for that many kids to take notice. Also, the cameras don't really come out until kids think its going to be a fight and that is usually once someone does something to another kid. It is also highly unlikely that while Austin and Karmelo were squaring off all the other boys were "sitting minding their own business". So if a video shows one kid standing against what looks to be more than one person then we are talking about an entirely different LOOKING scenario. So it really just depends on what the video shows. I am clearly in the "lets wait for the facts" crowd on this one.

 

Neither of these reports make Anthony look good.  Both scenarios sends Anthony to jail, which is likely where he belongs

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Posted
Quote

My guess, based on what we know so far, is he will plead to manslaughter and get 7-10 years.  I think that would be pretty fair. 

I agree and wonder if the father/family of Metcalf would agree as well.

At the end of the day this is a tragic event and supremely sucks for everyone involved. I also feel for the black community of Frisco (mentioned my nanny is a BIPOC in Frisco) and the fact that this society (and area we live in) has to be proactively defensive and litigous to get a fair shake for folks who are black and so in a sense I can understand the need to keep race in the forefront as a reminder of societies natural bent and historical responses (fair or unfair). 

But also, the kid killed another kid and that is true outside and above another secondary factor outside of any evidence that will come out for self-defense, if any (which is then not even a secondary, but primary factor)

Posted
5 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

Anthony's statements

He didn't have to tell them anything, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on things he didn't say or even based on things he did say. I agree that he should plead to manslaughter.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

LL Cool J played an interesting character (death row prisoner) in an episode of House MD, and one of the lines he gave has always stuck with me (paraphrasing): "Imagine your whole life being about the worst mistake you ever made."

Obviously the flip side to that is imagine your child's life taken due to someone else's worst mistake. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

LL Cool J played an interesting character (death row prisoner) in an episode of House MD, and one of the lines he gave has always stuck with me (paraphrasing): "Imagine your whole life being about the worst mistake you ever made."

No one calls you “McGregor the wall-builder or “McGregor the master carpenter.”

But you do one rape and murder and see what they call you! 

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Posted
1 hour ago, C-Man said:

Anthony alone turned what should've been at worst a run-of-the-mill fist-fight/rumble between rival high schools into a situation where a kid lost his life. Period. The knife was an unnecessary escalation.

I'll leave it to the lawyers and judges to determine whether he goes away for murder or something lesser but he's barring some major revelation, he's going away for (hopefully) the stupidest decision he makes in his life.

The cope I’m seeing is so fucking delusional.  This kid had time to fish a knife out of his bag? To escalate and challenge?  The eyewitnesses said he was pushed or at most “grabbed.” 
 

Yeah, that’s not proportional self-defense in any courtroom.  Get fucking real. 

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Posted

Anthony had multiple chances to de-escalate or entirely prevent the situation from happening at all and yet he chose to stab another kid and kill him.  He deserves to rot in prison for 20+ years.  It was not raining at the time of the incident and he was not talking to a Memorial friend based on eyewitness accounts, therefore, he had no business being under that tent.  Centennial had their own tent if he needed to be under a tent.  He could have walked away when he was asked to but he did not.  He could have kept his mouth shut instead of escalating the situation by provoking Metcalf but he did not.  Ultimately, he could have not brought a knife to a track meet, but he did not.  He made multiple bad decisions that lead to the death of another.  One could conclude that Anthony's intentions that day were to use the knife and try to make it look like self-defense.  Shame on anyone that is actually defending him.  That being said he absolutely deserves a fair trial and did deserve the opportunity to bond out and await trial at home.

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Posted

This isn't specific to this case, but just a general one party is armed vs unarmed physical confrontation in the state of Texas.  What's the legal requirement of de-escalation, if any, has to be done in order for the armed party to be legally justified to use their weapon.  Is it just a it depends on everything type of deal?

Posted

Some people keep missing an important aspect of this, whether intentionally and by design or just unable to accept a reality.

If you are the aggressor in a situation, and the person you're engaging with ends up dead, the self defense aspect is almost always, in every single imaginable scenario, gone. 

He went to the victims team tent. (Aggresor)

He was asked to leave and didn't. (Aggresor)

He may, or may not have made threats to escalate. 

(Aggresor)

He made no attempt to run nor flee when his aggressive aspects escalated the situation based on all we currently know.

(Aggresor/refusing to de-escalate/seek alternatives to esclate)

Victim is stabbed and dies.

Thats murder. Unless there are facts we have yet to be made aware of to this point.

Trying to defend these actions as self defense, at this point given what we know, is like blaming everyone on the team but the QB for a loss in a football game.

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Posted
Just now, BurntEyes said:

Some people keep missing an important aspect of this, whether intentionally and by design or just unable to accept a reality.

If you are the aggressor in a situation, and the person you're engaging with ends up dead, the self defense aspect is almost always, in every single imaginable scenario, gone. 

He went to the victims team tent. (Aggresor)

He was asked to leave and didn't. (Aggresor)

He may, or may not have made threats to escalate. 

(Aggresor)

He made no attempt to run nor flee when his aggressive aspects escalated the situation based on all we currently know.

(Aggresor/refusing to de-escalate/seek alternatives to esclate)

Victim is stabbed and dies.

Thats murder. Unless there are facts we have yet to be made aware of to this point.

Trying to defend these actions as self defense, at this point given what we know, is like blaming everyone on the team but the QB for a loss in a football game.

Really do not even have to get into all of that.  Unless Anthony had a reasonable belief his life was in danger or a reasonable belief he needed to use deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury, self defense is not available.

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Posted

If Austin Metcalf started the confrontation and was the first to put hands on the other then I don't see why Karmelo couldn't stand his ground. He was wrong to pull out his pocketknife and open it up, that was not proportionate for defense, but isn't that the definition of stand your ground?

Posted
29 minutes ago, txhorns said:

Anthony had multiple chances to de-escalate or entirely prevent the situation from happening at all and yet he chose to stab another kid and kill him.  He deserves to rot in prison for 20+ years.  It was not raining at the time of the incident and he was not talking to a Memorial friend based on eyewitness accounts, therefore, he had no business being under that tent.  Centennial had their own tent if he needed to be under a tent.  He could have walked away when he was asked to but he did not.  He could have kept his mouth shut instead of escalating the situation by provoking Metcalf but he did not.  Ultimately, he could have not brought a knife to a track meet, but he did not.  He made multiple bad decisions that lead to the death of another.  One could conclude that Anthony's intentions that day were to use the knife and try to make it look like self-defense.  Shame on anyone that is actually defending him.  That being said he absolutely deserves a fair trial and did deserve the opportunity to bond out and await trial at home.

He had several chances to walk away.  He chose violence 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

This isn't specific to this case, but just a general one party is armed vs unarmed physical confrontation in the state of Texas.  What's the legal requirement of de-escalation, if any, has to be done in order for the armed party to be legally justified to use their weapon.  Is it just a it depends on everything type of deal?

First, the armed party can not be the aggressor. 

Then there are a ton of aspects that come in to play. Where it is happening (the armed persons home), what the unarmed person is doing (trespassing, breaking into their car, beating the shit of of them.) Too much to clarify without some actual specifics but the primary one is the armed person need to feel their life is in danger.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Really do not even have to get into all of that.  Unless Anthony had a reasonable belief his life was in danger or a reasonable belief he needed to use deadly force to prevent serious bodily injury, self defense is not available.

Neither is it available if he was the aggressor. My point is when he went to the tent and didn't leave when asked by the victim, self defense is gone in almost every case.

Let me give you an example.

I walk into your tent at a track meet, for reasons unknown and I'm hanging out.

You ask me to leave.

I say fuck you I'm not leaving.

You pull a knife and say get out man! You dont charge me, you don't touch me, you only say "Get out man!"

I pull a gun and shoot you. You die.

I was the aggressor in the situation and while I might reasonably argue I feared for my life I continued to be the aggressor. When the situation escalted I could have walked away 2 different times. I chose not to. Self defense is really not on the table if there are witnesses to corroborate the events.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted

I am curious why it always seems that "civil rights advocates" constantly seem to have sketchy backgrounds and often seem to be taking advantage of those they represent.

I think there's a need for such advocates and don't see that such a calling or occupation is inherently "grifty," but it inevitably seems that it is.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am curious why it always seems that "civil rights advocates" constantly seem to have sketchy backgrounds and often seem to be taking advantage of those they represent.

I think there's a need for such advocates and don't see that such a calling or occupation is inherently "grifty," but it inevitably seems that it is.

 

I would argue that he is not a civil rights advocate. I would argue he's a criminal and a grifter posing as a civil rights advocate.

I would also argue most people who don't actually, ya know, go into law or go to work for an organization like ACLU or other similar civil rights/liberties organization are likely virtue signaling as civil rights advocates as part of their grift or in order to help further their influencer status.

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am curious why it always seems that "civil rights advocates" constantly seem to have sketchy backgrounds and often seem to be taking advantage of those they represent.

I think there's a need for such advocates and don't see that such a calling or occupation is inherently "grifty," but it inevitably seems that it is.

 

There are plenty of fantastic and non-grifty civil rights advocates doing yeoman’s work advancing equal treatment at the structural and individual level. The ones that gravitate towards media spotlights and the chance to grift on a massive scale do tend to be grifters.  
 

This guy is to civil rights defenders what Dr. Oz is to medical doctors or Dr. Phil to therapists. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

There are plenty of fantastic and non-grifty civil rights advocates doing yeoman’s work advancing equal treatment at the structural and individual level. The ones that gravitate towards media spotlights and the chance to grift on a massive scale do tend to be grifters.  
 

This guy is to civil rights defenders what Dr. Oz is to medical doctors or Dr. Phil to therapists. 

Agreed. Based on my experience those serving a cause in earnest, frequently, don't want or "need" the recognition for their work. They are serving based on a higher purpose if you will. Perhaps tied to their religion or other core beliefs.

My mom actually met and was given awards for her service to the USA by 3 different sitting US presidents and a 4th provided a lifetime "Thanks" in the Oval Office. She passed on the visiting the White House on the 4th but accepted the other 3 for her teams. Yes, she didnt think she deserved them, because "her teams did all the work", so she "accepted the awards for them". Seriously. You could Google her name and nothing would come up, but I have the awards and pics. My mom, doesn't even see herself as a hero, she was just "doing her job". Yes, her words. She's obviously a much better human than I can or will ever hope to be. I try.. but nope not close.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I am curious why it always seems that "civil rights advocates" constantly seem to have sketchy backgrounds and often seem to be taking advantage of those they represent.

It's just because the ones you see that get in front of cameras are pretty much all like this. The ACLU employes hundreds of advocates but I bet you couldn't name a single one off the top of your head.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's just because the ones you see that get in front of cameras are pretty much all like this. The ACLU employes hundreds of advocates but I bet you couldn't name a single one off the top of your head.

I don't think Twice is referring to the ACLU or any other serious people, hence the quotes.

Posted
1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Agreed. Based on my experience those serving a cause in earnest, frequently, don't want or "need" the recognition for their work. They are serving based on a higher purpose if you will. Perhaps tied to their religion or other core beliefs.

My mom actually met and was given awards for her service to the USA by 3 different sitting US presidents and a 4th provided a lifetime "Thanks" in the Oval Office. She passed on the visiting the White House on the 4th but accepted the other 3 for her teams. Yes, she didnt think she deserved them, because "her teams did all the work", so she "accepted the awards for them". Seriously. You could Google her name and nothing would come up, but I have the awards and pics. My mom, doesn't even see herself as a hero, she was just "doing her job". Yes, her words. She's obviously a much better human than I can or will ever hope to be. I try.. but nope not close.

Why didn't your mom want to meet Obama for the 4th one?

Posted

I was thinking about the knife while catching up. There has been speculation about whether a small folding pocket knife is legal on a school campus and - if so - how small is legal and how big is illegal. And if a small folding picket knife that is legal would have a large enough blade to stab someone deep enough to penetrate the heart.

But let's disregard that for a moment and consider three things:

1 - it was a folding knife and was folded, then he had to remove the knife, unfold it, and then stab.

2 - the knife was already unfolded in the backpack. He just had to grab it and swing.

3 - it was a fixed blade knife, either in a sheath or not. If unsheathed, he just need to grab and stab. If sheathed, he had to pull it from the sheath first.

Does any of those change anything about intent? If you have time to pull the knife and unfold it, I'd think you also have time to walk away. Does unfolding it imply intent to use it? Does carrying it unfolded and "ready" imply you are expecting to be in scenarios where you would have to use it? If you have pull it from a sheath, I'd think you're intending to use it.

Just wondering if the type of knife used and how it was carried in the backpack could have any bearing on the self-defense theory.

Posted
5 hours ago, sheeeit said:

Kudos for digging in I guess.  But you still keep missing the main factor.  All the witnesses say Anthony said something to the effect of "touch me and see what happens or punch/hit me and see what happens".  Legally you can not go up to someone or respond to a confrontation knowing you have a knife and escalate the situation in any way.  When Anthony challenged Metcalf, regardless of what Metcalf did first, his self defense claims go out the window.  You really seem to not like that but it is the law.

Further, Anthony's statements to the cops are "he put his hands on me".  Not 2 guys jumping him or tackling him or he punched me or tackled me or some mysterious group surrounding him ready to beat him.  Not a single witness said anything about a group of people involved.  He, singular, put his hands on me is what he said.

Lastly, the ONLY way your ridiculous scenario involving multiple people "standing against" him could be possible would involve multiple people in the middle of the day at a track meet in the bleachers which are visible to everyone at the track meet (parents/coaches/fans/participants) that surrounded Anthony to a point that he could not escape and then attacked him and he used a knife to defend himself.  By all accounts, Anthony could have just left the tent when asked to do so.   He chose to stay and confront Metcalf and had a knife that he brought out and used.  

My guess, based on what we know so far, is he will plead to manslaughter and get 7-10 years.  I think that would be pretty fair. 

Man, this must be your first time around black people. When black people say "he put his hands on me", they don't mean it in the literal sense. It means the person did something to them physically. Let me point you to the Urban Dictionary

 

hands.png.1df9974d0414cd8bcd66fa9375181a99.png

You guys are having trouble imagining any different scenario than what you have in your head. In your scenario of events Metcalf told him to leave and then Anthony told him to touch him and see what happens. Then Metcalf "touches" him and Anthony just wildly stabs him with a knife. However, what if Anthony goes over to the tent to hang out with his friend, whoever EP is in the police report. The Metcalf boys return from the other tent that the dude on youtube said they were in to find this dude in their tent. Metcalf confronts the kid, barking orders at him. They go back and forth, and Metcalf slaps his phone out of his hands. Kids pull out their phones. Metcalf is shoving him or hitting him, all while Anthony is issuing warnings. I am sure Metcalf is saying a few things too, like making threats of his own right? Metcalf might have a couple teammates standing up behind him and then snatches this kid up one final time and Anthony stabs him.

Again, this isn't about digging in. This is what generally happens between teenage boys. All of us here were teenage boys and are pretty familiar with how things escalate in these situations. Regardless of how this case turns out from a legal standpoint, there is no way this was a quick 30 second ordeal and drew the eyes of 30 witnesses and their phones. A bunch of shit happened between the initial "get out" and the stabbing.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Man, this must be your first time around black people. When black people say "he put his hands on me", they don't mean it in the literal sense. It means the person did something to them physically. Let me point you to the Urban Dictionary

 

hands.png.1df9974d0414cd8bcd66fa9375181a99.png

You guys are having trouble imagining any different scenario than what you have in your head. In your scenario of events Metcalf told him to leave and then Anthony told him to touch him and see what happens. Then Metcalf "touches" him and Anthony just wildly stabs him with a knife. However, what if Anthony goes over to the tent to hang out with his friend, whoever EP is in the police report. The Metcalf boys return from the other tent that the dude on youtube said they were in to find this dude in their tent. Metcalf confronts the kid, barking orders at him. They go back and forth, and Metcalf slaps his phone out of his hands. Kids pull out their phones. Metcalf is shoving him or hitting him, all while Anthony is issuing warnings. I am sure Metcalf is saying a few things too, like making threats of his own right? Metcalf might have a couple teammates standing up behind him and then snatches this kid up one final time and Anthony stabs him.

Again, this isn't about digging in. This is what generally happens between teenage boys. All of us here were teenage boys and are pretty familiar with how things escalate in these situations. Regardless of how this case turns out from a legal standpoint, there is no way this was a quick 30 second ordeal and drew the eyes of 30 witnesses and their phones. A bunch of shit happened between the initial "get out" and the stabbing.

I think you need to consider the strong likelihood that an extended argument devolving into altercation devolving into stabbing makes a self-defense argument for Anthony much less plausible in every way as it pretty much destroys the immediate and imminent fear for life and bodily safety.  Instead, it begins to look a whole lot more like a guy who reached for a knife when he started losing a fight he had every opportunity to get out of. 

Posted

Also, lol at chainsaw’s theory that stand your ground means you’re allowed to tit for tat escalate public arguments all the way up to where you are afraid for your life and then its stabbin’ time. 
 

The theories and speculation here are wild. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also, lol at chainsaw’s theory that stand your ground means you’re allowed to tit for tat escalate public arguments all the way up to where you are afraid for your life and then its stabbin’ time. 
 

The theories and speculation here are wild. 

How am I speculating here? You're the one assuming there was a fight that Anthony was losing, based on god knows what because it sure isn't the police report

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Covri said:

Why didn't your mom want to meet Obama for the 4th one?

This this where you want to take a what I thought was cool personal story I told about a very selfless person that served the US and its citizens for the bulk of her life? 

I never noted which president she didn't meet. 

I already explained that the last one was a lifetime award and she didn't feel she'd earned such an award for just doing her job. She also didn't like Trump because shes a racist that hates white people.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
9 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

How am I speculating here? You're the one assuming there was a fight that Anthony was losing, based on god knows what because it sure isn't the police report

Yours is mostly about the truly dumb legal theories you keep floating.  “Theories and speculation.” 

Posted
51 minutes ago, Modessit said:

I was thinking about the knife while catching up. There has been speculation about whether a small folding pocket knife is legal on a school campus and - if so - how small is legal and how big is illegal. And if a small folding picket knife that is legal would have a large enough blade to stab someone deep enough to penetrate the heart.

But let's disregard that for a moment and consider three things:

1 - it was a folding knife and was folded, then he had to remove the knife, unfold it, and then stab.

2 - the knife was already unfolded in the backpack. He just had to grab it and swing.

3 - it was a fixed blade knife, either in a sheath or not. If unsheathed, he just need to grab and stab. If sheathed, he had to pull it from the sheath first.

Does any of those change anything about intent? If you have time to pull the knife and unfold it, I'd think you also have time to walk away. Does unfolding it imply intent to use it? Does carrying it unfolded and "ready" imply you are expecting to be in scenarios where you would have to use it? If you have pull it from a sheath, I'd think you're intending to use it.

Just wondering if the type of knife used and how it was carried in the backpack could have any bearing on the self-defense theory.

Doesn't make a shit. 

At all.

Like carrying a 22 lr pistol without one in the chamber. That's a gun, knife stabbing is knife stabbing.

Irrelevant to this case based on current facts as we know them.

If someone is the instigator/ aggressor self defense is out. 

If some isn’t in fear for their life self defense is out.

You attack someone with intent to cause serious bodily injury with a swiss army knife or a bayonette, and they die, if it isn't self defense, it's murder. 

Posted
27 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think you need to consider the strong likelihood that an extended argument devolving into altercation devolving into stabbing makes a self-defense argument for Anthony much less plausible in every way as it pretty much destroys the immediate and imminent fear for life and bodily safety.  Instead, it begins to look a whole lot more like a guy who reached for a knife when he started losing a fight he had every opportunity to get out of. 

Or a guy who went to a tent with a knife looking for a reason to stab someone.

Posted
9 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

I’m sick and tired of the stories that you always tell / Shakespeare couldn’t tell a story that well / See, you’re the largest liar that was ever created / You and Pinocchio are probably related ~ LL Cool J

More flesh than the Greek Fest

-LL

Posted
18 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Also, lol at chainsaw’s theory that stand your ground means you’re allowed to tit for tat escalate public arguments all the way up to where you are afraid for your life and then its stabbin’ time. 
 

The theories and speculation here are wild. 

It could have been that the aliens took over Anthony's body for a short period forcing him to stab Metcalfe. 

I don't think that should qualify as murder as it wasn't his will nor intent to cause serious bodily injury. 

Also it was a Swiss Army knife and he was an Eagle Scout, so Anthony was probably just there fixing the tent in the first place. Metcalf played GTA 5, Call of Duty and Rainbow Seige while listening to heavy metal music and he watched a lot of horror movies so its clear he was a devil worshiper.

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