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Posted
1 hour ago, Derka said:

he told the police he’d stabbed the other guy; that’s homicide, not murder. until he’s  had a trial and been convicted, he’s not a murderer. it’s not slight nuance, it’s a major, distinctive difference.

This is semantics. Murder is a subset of homicide whose definition can vary by jurisdiction and country. 

This happened in Texas so:

Spoiler

 

Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

 

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

 

Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:

(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, the person commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or

(4) knowingly manufactures or delivers a controlled substance included in Penalty Group 1-B under Section 481.1022, Health and Safety Code, in violation of Section 481.1123, Health and Safety Code, and an individual dies as a result of injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or introducing into the individual's body any amount of the controlled substance manufactured or delivered by the actor, regardless of whether the controlled substance was used by itself or with another substance, including a drug, adulterant, or dilutant.

(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(4) that the actor's conduct in manufacturing or delivering the controlled substance was authorized under Chapter 481, Health and Safety Code, or other state or federal law.

So now we have the definition of murder as defined by Texas law. Now, to be convicted of murder, under Texas laws, beyond a reasonable doubt is one way to define murder as a subset of homicide. 

However, to state that just because someone has yet to be convicted of a crime under specific state law mean they are not is well.. a dangerous game. There is absolutely a difference between a convicted murderer and a murderer. However, just because someone isn't convicted, legally, of murder does not mean they aren't a murderer. On the opposite side, just because some IS convicted of murder doesn't mean they are a murderer. Hell, just last page I got slammed when someone assumed I believed all people convicted of a crime are guilty, which I don't because they aren't. Similarly, not all murderers are convicted. 

Do YOU believe/think that there are people who aren't convicted of rape, child molestation or murder are rapists, child molesters or murders?? 

Would YOU say all people convicted of rape, child molestation or murder ARE rapists, child molesters or murderers? 

I don't know your answer, but here is mine. I think there are a lot on both sides of that equation. Innocent people who aren't guilty and guilty people who aren't in prison. 

Based on evidence I am aware of at this point, the offender has admitted to stabbing the victim. The victim died. That is, by definition of Texas law, murder, whether or not he has been convicted, if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court, otherwise. UNLESS, there are extenuating circumstances which I am not currently aware exist, and fully admit may well exist, then the offender is a yet to be convicted murder. 

So, we can play semantics games, but using Texas law, based on everything I'm aware of to this point, the defendant appears to be a murder, just one who has yet to be convicted or plead. Will he be convicted, I don't know, but it seems likely that will happen or he will plead. Will evidence surface that changes my perception, I don't know, perhaps.

To cap it all off, in the US one is innocent until proven guilty, so legally, he is not a murderer, but he sure looks like one based on all the current information available. 

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Posted

Jesus christ, people. It's fine for random message board assholes to call this kid a murderer. It's also fine for pedantic lawyers to note that he hasn't been convicted. 

He stabbed someone else in the chest with a knife. Intent to kill can be legally presumed by a jury, as has been previously explained, and we're not the fucking jury. Maybe there's some reasonable grounds for a self defense argument, we don't know. And unless there's some evidence that he goes around stabbing other people or torturing cats or something, there's no reason he shouldn't get bail.

This story sucks ass for everyone involved and is example infinity of the stupidity of modern masculinity. Boys used to know how to talk shit and even how to lose a fight without wanting to kill.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Guys…when BurntEyes is the voice of measured, logical reason around here…y’all are FUCKED.
Seriously, spot-on post.

Even worse, I've found babayaga to be completely normal and reasonable in this thread. And I'm only admitting that because I've been drinking tonight.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Even worse, I've found babayaga to be completely normal and reasonable in this thread. And I'm only admitting that because I've been drinking tonight.

Tonight?

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