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Posted
28 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I'm sure there's also precedent saying that a stabbing isn't always serious bodily injury

I don't think in Texas that using a deadly weapon automatically meets the requirement, but I also doubt there's ever been a case where a guy died from a stab wound that wasn't considered a serious bodily injury.

Posted
2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

"Well, he didn't die because he was stabbed, he died because his heart stopped pumping blood. We do not know for a fact that the dead person didn’t have heart issues prior to that point. So is that really evidence that he was trying cause serious bodily injury?"

-chainsaw probably 

And what if he didn’t get stabbed in the heart, what if he got punched and fell down and hit his head? And what if it didn’t happen at a high school track meet, what if it happened during a bar fight? 
 

You might not be so sure of yourself if something completely different had happened. 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, JBJ said:

I don't think in Texas that using a deadly weapon automatically meets the requirement, but I also doubt there's ever been a case where a guy died from a stab wound that wasn't considered a serious bodily injury.

it really just depends what his intent was, and we don't know that yet

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Posted
12 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

it really just depends what his intent was, and we don't know that yet

He stabbed a kid in the heart hard enough to kill him. His intentions are pretty fucking clear. It's not like he punched the kid and he fell and hit his head and died. He stabbed him straight middle of the chest and super hard.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, usmc0331horn said:

He stabbed a kid in the heart hard enough to kill him. His intentions are pretty fucking clear. It's not like he punched the kid and he fell and hit his head and died. He stabbed him straight middle of the chest and super hard.

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Posted
What usually happens if a guy suckerpuches someone else at a bar or a party and the victim takes an unlucky bounce and ends up dead. That's not intent to cause serious bodily injury is it? Intent to bruise someone or even fracture a bone, but to cause a serious injury? I wouldn't think so.
Bringing a knife into the mix changes things, I agree. I just don't think agree that every time someone wields a knife they're intent on causing a "serious" injury that can't be treated with a tourniquet and basic first aid equipment that is probably available at a UIL event.


You are hung up on something that is going to have nothing to do with this case. This case will be tried as a self-defense case, not an accident or lack of intent. Mostly because any lawyer knows that an accident or lack of intent are loser issues given these facts unless they somehow get 12 of you on their jury. Self Defense and lack of intent are mutually exclusive. Self Defense means I did it because it was immediately necessary to prevent myself from unlawful deadly force being used against me. You can’t accidentally defend yourself.

You really have no idea what you are talking about legally and should consider sitting this out and reading some of what more knowledgeable people are telling you and absorbing the information.
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Posted
19 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

it really just depends what his intent was, and we don't know that yet

I dont know what to tell you other than you are trying to find a exception that simply doesn't exist.

The intent is to stab someone with a knife.

Stabbing is likely to and did cause serious injury.

It doesn't really matter if someone only wanted to stab someone just a little bit.  That's the crux of the guy hitting his head on the barstool example.

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Posted

Yeah, @Mantis Toboggan, MD is right.  There is a lot of unresolvable tension between “I was scared for my life and safety so I stabbed him” and “I was just doing some knife goofing, I didn’t mean to hurt the guy.”  Can’t be both, if you’re stabbing in self-defense you are trying to hurt someone. 

But as @TwiceHorn pointed out, all that matters is what you can convince a jury.  And in a situation where you stabbed someone in the heart in public it’s not a bad bet to create a media circus and polarize things to the point that what actually happened almost doesn’t matter.  That appears to be the path chosen. 

Posted

Anthony’s mother, Kala Hayes, spoke, her voice wavering as she read prepared remarks. She described how her family had come “under attack” online from what she called false accusations, racially charged disinformation and death threats.

His father, Andrew Anthony, wiped tears from Hayes’ eyes as she addressed the crowd. Hayes urged both the public and the criminal justice system to ensure he receives a fair trial.

“Our son deserves the same rights under the law that everyone is afforded,” she said. “He’s been raised in a two-parent home with structure, stability, love — and we put God first in everything we do.

“We believe in the Constitution. We believe in the laws of this state, but those laws must apply to all of us, not just some of us.”

Jeff Metcalf, Austin Metcalf’s father, previously stood among the cameras, waiting for the news conference to start. He declined to speak with reporters, including The Dallas Morning News.

Hayes expressed sympathy for the Metcalf family.

“To the family that experienced that loss, my heart truly goes out to you,” she said.

Anthony’s parents and Alexander did not take questions from the media. Alexander said the news conference would be their last public remarks on the case, though he forecast “direct action” aimed at Frisco ISD, which he said was moving to expel Anthony from school.

“We’ll see you at trial,” he said, before guiding the parents away from the cameras and lights.

The news conference comes days after Anthony was released on bond, which was decreased from an initial amount of $1 million to $250,000. He had been in custody since April 2 and faces a charge of murder in Metcalf’s death.

Posted
1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

And in a situation where you stabbed someone in the heart in public it’s not a bad bet to create a media circus and polarize things to the point that what actually happened almost doesn’t matter.  That appears to be the path chosen. 

This much is painfully clear

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

 


You are hung up on something that is going to have nothing to do with this case. This case will be tried as a self-defense case, not an accident or lack of intent. Mostly because any lawyer knows that an accident or lack of intent are loser issues given these facts unless they somehow get 12 of you on their jury. Self Defense and lack of intent are mutually exclusive. Self Defense means I did it because it was immediately necessary to prevent myself from unlawful deadly force being used against me. You can’t accidentally defend yourself.

You really have no idea what you are talking about legally and should consider sitting this out and reading some of what more knowledgeable people are telling you and absorbing the information.

I'm not talking about the trial. I'm talking about what the public knows for certain today. Why bother jumping to conclusions?

Posted
18 hours ago, Thatguy said:

This is what I heard happened. This also tracks with what the dad on youtube said. If you read the police report one of the kids said that Melo was friends with one of the guys on the Memorial track team so could be how he was at the same party. It also explains why the situation turned violent so quickly. There is def more to this story than "dude nobody knew was under a tent and decided to stab some random guy".

 

Personal anectdote which might or might not mean anything alert. Skip if you are tuning in for pure facts:

I'll tell you this much, my wife and I took our spring/summer nanny out to brunch last weekend. She's a young black person here in the area, graduated from a Frisco ISD, goes to an HSBCU (online) and still lives at home with her two parents and hangs out with her friends in the area...

She opened the conversation with us "did you hear about..." and then proceeded to tell us she knows for sure it was self-defense. I'm not sure if there are some known facts and evidence circulating out there for those in the know, but she seemed to be adamant about it. 

Another interesting example out here how this case is drawn along racial lines though the crime(s) seem to have nothing to do with race. The black(er) community out here definitely seems to be very defensive and protecting and pro-Karmelo and have financially rallied around him as such too. Don't know if it's because of something specific they know that we don't or just a general "circle the wagons so we don't get railroaded by the media and legal system" situation.

Posted
Just now, Vegas64 said:

Personal anectdote which might or might not mean anything alert. Skip if you are tuning in for pure facts:

I'll tell you this much, my wife and I took our spring/summer nanny out to brunch last weekend. She's a young black person here in the area, graduated from a Frisco ISD, goes to an HSBCU (online) and still lives at home with her two parents and hangs out with her friends in the area...

She opened the conversation with us "did you hear about..." and then proceeded to tell us she knows for sure it was self-defense. I'm not sure if there are some known facts and evidence circulating out there for those in the know, but she seemed to be adamant about it. 

Another interesting example out here how this case is drawn along racial lines though the crime(s) seem to have nothing to do with race. The black(er) community out here definitely seems to be very defensive and protecting and pro-Karmelo and have financially rallied around him as such too. Don't know if it's because of something specific they know that we don't or just a general "circle the wagons so we don't get railroaded by the media and legal system" situation.

I think many of us have racial bias.  I suspect your nanny does.  Doesn’t mean she’s racist but this isn’t surprising.  See OJ, Barry Bonds, Jokic. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, chainsaw said:

What usually happens if a guy suckerpuches someone else at a bar or a party and the victim takes an unlucky bounce and ends up dead. That's not intent to cause serious bodily injury is it? Intent to bruise someone or even fracture a bone, but to cause a serious injury? I wouldn't think so.

Bringing a knife into the mix changes things, I agree. I just don't think agree that every time someone wields a knife they're intent on causing a "serious" injury that can't be treated with a tourniquet and basic first aid equipment that is probably available at a UIL event.

dude-confused.gif

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Posted
57 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:

unless they somehow get 12 of you on their jury

 

I dunno man.  One of him on the jury might get you to a hung jury and a better plea, and in this world of pure idiocracy we live in, may not be a bad bet.

Posted
1 hour ago, JBJ said:

I dont know what to tell you other than you are trying to find a exception that simply doesn't exist.

The intent is to stab someone with a knife.

Stabbing is likely to and did cause serious injury.

It doesn't really matter if someone only wanted to stab someone just a little bit.  That's the crux of the guy hitting his head on the barstool example.

talk show woman GIF by iOne Digital

Posted
1 hour ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

I think many of us have racial bias.  I suspect your nanny does.  Doesn’t mean she’s racist but this isn’t surprising.  See OJ, Barry Bonds, Jokic. 

Well, black folks have a quite reasonable distrust of the legal system for historically factual reasons.

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Posted

Dominique Alexander, who represents Karmelo Anthony, said about Austin Metcalf's father Jeff for attending a press conference held by the Anthony family, calling his presence

“a disrespect to the dignity of his son."

and “shows you all the character “

 

of note, when asked to leave, he did not stab anyone. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, chainsaw said:

How do you prove his intent was to do that, specifically? The kid was holding a knife, sure. So what? He says he wanted to defend himself, not cause a serious injury. As was covered earlier in the thread, the bar for "serious" is pretty high, so how are they going to prove that at the time of the incident he wanted to use the knife to hospitalize the victim? Remember the law separates what was "committed" from what was "intended" so it seems kind of lazy to infer from the events of Act III the characters' intentions in Act II. Just let things play out.

One thing you're hung up on I think is medical-type definitions of "injury."  Legally speaking (take the many standing cases we've seen in constitutional litigation), "injury" is synonymous with "damage."  In civil cases, the injury is often monetary, only, such as in a breach of contract.

Take simple, common-law assault.  The injury there is threatened "offensive touching."  For battery, it's actual offensive touching.  No medical injury required in either case.

The touching makes it "bodily," as opposed to "touching your stuff"/Francis, which is not actionable as assault or battery.  But then statutes have come into play changing stuff around from the common law, renaming battery as assault with touching, etc.

The Texas Penal Code provides "Bodily injury" means physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.  So it just has to hurt a little, beyond being merely offensive.  It further provides "Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that creates a substantial risk of death or that causes death, serious permanent disfigurement, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ."  

So, earlier, when I said "requires medical treatment," that was probably a more common-law tort definition of serious bodily injury.  But anything that requires medical attention very likely creates a substantial risk of  . . . " Otherwise, why seek medical treatment?  That doesn't mean you can go to a doctor for any old ouchie or hypochondriac condition and make it serious bodily injury, but the nature of most medical treatment is to avoid it becoming a bigger deal by infection, failure to heal, etc.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted

Nobody here saw what happened that's all I've been saying. Someone died, there was a knife involved, and the guy says he was holding the knife when it happened and was using the knife for self defense. We don't know more than that. I've not read any news about how "hard" the stabbing was or even if his intention was to stab the guy in the chest. There's conflicting rumors about how much they knew each other if at all. If the two of them were scuffling, then anything could have happened during the scuffle, and there's a world of difference between pulling out a knife and using that knife to cause a serious injury. If there were people crowding around the two of them or behind either of them that also can contribute to unintended consequences.

Just let it play out, there's no need to jump to conclusions.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

One thing you're hung up on I think is medical-type definitions of "injury."  Legally speaking (take the many standing cases we've seen in constitutional litigation), "injury" is synonymous with "damage."  In civil cases, the injury is often monetary, only, such as in a breach of contract.

 

 

Oh I'd say Metcalf was injured and damaged alright

Posted
2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Nobody here saw what happened that's all I've been saying. Someone died, there was a knife involved, and the guy says he was holding the knife when it happened and was using the knife for self defense. We don't know more than that. I've not read any news about how "hard" the stabbing was or even if his intention was to stab the guy in the chest. There's conflicting rumors about how much they knew each other if at all. If the two of them were scuffling, then anything could have happened during the scuffle, and there's a world of difference between pulling out a knife and using that knife to cause a serious injury. If there were people crowding around the two of them or behind either of them that also can contribute to unintended consequences.

Just let it play out, there's no need to jump to conclusions.

It was a hard enough stabbing to penetrate his chest cavity and pierce his heart.

Posted
36 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Dominique Alexander, who represents Karmelo Anthony, said about Austin Metcalf's father Jeff for attending a press conference held by the Anthony family, calling his presence

“a disrespect to the dignity of his son."

and “shows you all the character “

 

of note, when asked to leave, he did not stab anyone. 

From Grok on this fucking guy

Relevant Dominique Alexander (Dallas Activist)

  • Identity: Dominique Alexander is a community activist and founder of the Next Generation Action Network in Dallas, Texas, known for organizing protests against police violence.
  • Background: Alexander gained prominence for leading demonstrations in Dallas, including after the 2014 Ferguson decision regarding Michael Brown’s death and the 2016 Alton Sterling shooting. His activism focused on racial justice and police reform.
     
  • Criminal History: Alexander has a criminal record, including a 2011 felony conviction for injury to a child (shaking a 2-year-old, causing severe harm), for which he received probation. He was sentenced to two years in prison in 2016 for probation violations, including leaving the state without permission. He also faced charges for theft, evading arrest, and forging a check.
     
  • Domestic Violence Allegations: In 2019, Alexander was arrested and indicted on a felony charge of continuous violence against the family after his partner, Keyaira Saunders, alleged he assaulted her. Saunders later signed an affidavit stating she did not want to pursue the case, claiming no physical harm occurred, but the indictment proceeded.
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Posted

 

3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

My main takeaway from this thread?

Law school must suck even more than I ever could have imagined.

But most law students are probably more like Brisket and Twice, not chainsaw.  I'd wager its 1000 typical attorneys to every one chainsaw that somehow aces an LSAT.  

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I think time for everyone to just start ignoring chainsaw.  He's either a troll or a complete moron.  Either way, waste of everyone's time.

No man, he's just asking questions.  

 

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

But most law students are probably more like Brisket and Twice, not chainsaw.

Well, that's kind of fucking depressing.  I don't want my attorney bitching and moaning on a chatroom all damn day.....;)

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So much of a lawdog's daily work is tedious and/or mindless so I give it to my younger associates so I can post more on Surly.  It demands some kind of break or you'll go insane.

FIFY

Posted
21 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

From Grok on this fucking guy

Relevant Dominique Alexander (Dallas Activist)

  • Identity: Dominique Alexander is a community activist and founder of the Next Generation Action Network in Dallas, Texas, known for organizing protests against police violence.
  • Background: Alexander gained prominence for leading demonstrations in Dallas, including after the 2014 Ferguson decision regarding Michael Brown’s death and the 2016 Alton Sterling shooting. His activism focused on racial justice and police reform.
     
  • Criminal History: Alexander has a criminal record, including a 2011 felony conviction for injury to a child (shaking a 2-year-old, causing severe harm), for which he received probation. He was sentenced to two years in prison in 2016 for probation violations, including leaving the state without permission. He also faced charges for theft, evading arrest, and forging a check.
     
  • Domestic Violence Allegations: In 2019, Alexander was arrested and indicted on a felony charge of continuous violence against the family after his partner, Keyaira Saunders, alleged he assaulted her. Saunders later signed an affidavit stating she did not want to pursue the case, claiming no physical harm occurred, but the indictment proceeded.

Shaking a baby enough to cause severe harm, receives probation.   Theft, fraud, spousal violence, and still out making a living out of outrage.  Our systems have been very unfair to him, obviously.  

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Posted
22 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Shaking a baby enough to cause severe harm, receives probation.   Theft, fraud, spousal violence, and still out making a living out of outrage.  Our systems have been very unfair to him, obviously.  

Yikes on that shaking a baby thing.

Also, why in the world is Karmelo's family hiring a political activist and race activism guy/firm unless they feel like it's a strategic advantage somehow?

Maybe to turn away from the boring facts and turn it into a national spectacle is what the skepticism tells me.

Posted
39 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So much of a lawdog's daily work is tedious and/or mindless.  It demands some kind of break or you'll go insane.

Thus the rampant alcoholism and depression in the legal profession. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Dominique Alexander, who represents Karmelo Anthony, said about Austin Metcalf's father Jeff for attending a press conference held by the Anthony family, calling his presence

“a disrespect to the dignity of his son."

and “shows you all the character “

 

of note, when asked to leave, he did not stab anyone. 

That's fucked up. Like, really fucked up. 

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Posted
42 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Shaking a baby enough to cause severe harm, receives probation.   Theft, fraud, spousal violence, and still out making a living out of outrage.  Our systems have been very unfair to him, obviously.  

Grift knows no racial, ethnic, or economic boundaries unfortunately.  He's going to suck these poor parents dry, Karmelo is going to get basically the same sentencing he would otherwise, and this jackass is on to the next victim

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