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I'm not saying that Mike Pence is a fucking asshole, but...

Gil Bang

By Gil Bang
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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25898

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he snitched on his frat brothers for drinking beer.

 

(CNN)This is the second in a series of three op-eds tracing the long path of Vice President Mike Pence's ambition, from college, where he found a form of evangelicalism that weds theology to Republican politics, to the national stage-- and a job that puts him a short step away from the presidency. Part one: Mike Pence's plan to outlast Trump

An outgoing young man, Mike Pence once modeled spring clothes for a local department store and served as an altar boy at the Catholic church his family attended. He excelled in debate contests, was class president at his high school and embraced the Democratic Party, just like his Irish immigrant grandfather.
Michael D'Antonio
 
Michael D'Antonio
Peter Eisner
 
Peter Eisner
As a college freshman, he was elected to head his fraternity, Phi Gamma Delta. He also took command of a fellowship group, Vespers, which met in the campus chapel every Tuesday evening. At the frat he turned in his brothers for drinking beer. At the chapel he passed judgment on his peers.
People who met Mike Pence at Hanover College say something happened there to change him. In the fall of 1977, when he arrived, Hanover was the kind of liberal arts school where young minds were gently opened by professors and classmates. Pence moved in the opposite direction there, becoming more rigid and doctrinaire as he studied for a history degree.
 
 
Eventually his faith led him to reject some friends and even regard his fiancée, Karen, as a sinner whom he would have to forgive in order to marry. These habits of mind, later revealed in his hostility to equality for gay people and even climate science, were formed when he was barely an adult.
Vespers was organized around songs and testimonies of faith. It offered community to students who were adjusting to the emotional challenge of leaving home. It also gave the guitar-playing Pence the opportunity to preach with the zeal of a new convert to right-wing Christianity. His schoolmate Linda Koon recalls a charismatic fellow who turned cruel when she failed to meet his definition of true faith.
"He was rigid, condescending and exclusionary," Koon said in an interview. "You had to fit into his little pocket of Christianity, and I didn't fit."
Koon's problem was that she couldn't recount a dramatic come-to-Jesus tale of Christian conversion. "He acted like he had been struck by lightning," she said. "I had just grown up in the Lutheran Church and had always been a Christian. That wasn't good enough. He told me that wasn't good enough, 'God doesn't want your kind.' It was a very narrow view of an infinite being."
 

His lightning moment

The conversion story Pence told then, and many times later, found him at a Christian music festival where he answered a call to approach the stage and declare a commitment to Jesus. Pence, who loved to perform, was moved by the chance to stand at the center of a public ritual.
Years later he would say: "My heart really finally broke, with a deep realization what had happened on the cross, in some infinitesimal way, had happened for me, and I gave my life, and made a personal decision to trust Jesus Christ as my savior."
From then on, Pence moved steadily toward a form of evangelicalism that reserves heaven for a certain type of believer and marries theology to Republican politics. Pence was coached in his beliefs by a Hanover schoolmate, L. John Gables, who was bound for a career as a preacher.
In a recent sermon Gables noted with disapproval that America has entered an "age of tolerance and inclusion" and urged his flock to stand against it, because "there is no other way" but God's.
 
Pence unveils plans for 'Space Force'
 
 
 

 

 

 
 
 

 

Pence unveils plans for 'Space Force' 02:08
Gables has preached that in his brand of faith Jesus Christ is "the only assured way of salvation." He justifies an aggressive form of religious activism as a matter of tough love. At college, his friend Pence delivered a harsh public verdict on the condition of Linda Koon's soul in a campfire circle at a Vespers retreat. As she told us in an interview, Pence's evaluation of her fervor was followed by a recitation of her supposed sins, including her attendance at a wild party at the fraternity where Pence was in charge.
Koon says she left the session in tears, and was subsequently shunned by the members of the prayer group. After a temporary loss of faith, she undertook a new religious journey that led her to a more open-minded perspective. But the pain of the loss she experienced at Hanover remains. "There's a part of me who is still 18," says Koon, "and I still feel it."
The pain is more acute for the gay man who lived down the hall from Pence at Hanover and considered him a mentor. Almost 40 years after they met, Pence's schoolmate asked to speak anonymously as he recalled that Pence was the first person he ever told about his sexual orientation. "I went to him because I respected him. Mike told me that who I was was an abomination, and that I had to change. He also stopped being my friend."
Remarkably, this Hanover alumnus said, Pence was almost as judgmental about his wife-to-be, Karen, as he was about gay students. "He told me that he needed to forgive her because she had been married before and wasn't a virgin. It had taken a while for him to get there, but he had forgiven her. He couldn't forgive me in the same way and it was a long time before I came out to anyone else."
Scott Roos went to college with Pence and confirmed that he rejected his gay friend. Roos said he experienced virulent anti-gay prejudice, including slurs and public shaming, when he and his partner acknowledged their relationship to their fraternity brothers. Formerly friendly, Pence stopped speaking to Roos.
"There were other religious people at Hanover, but he was way out there," Roos said in a telephone interview.
 
Pence praises Trump during evangelical event
 
 
 

 

 

 
 
 

 

Pence praises Trump during evangelical event 02:05
Roos also said of Pence: "He said that God told him he would be president." Accordingly, Pence stayed away from the stag-film parties and beer blasts in his frat house, but when confronted directly by an administrator, turned his brothers in for buying a keg of beer, according to a former fraternity brother, Dan Murphy, who now teaches at Hanover. The school came down hard on everyone, but when Pence later sought a job in the admissions office, he got it.
In his own life Pence followed a traditional path. He met his wife, Karen, at church and they were married in 1985. She left her teaching job when she became a mother. The couple has three children.
After Hanover, and his wedding, Pence lost a couple of congressional races, where he campaigned on his opposition to abortion rights and gay rights -- before settling into a career in local talk radio. His first station was a small one owned by an Indiana preacher named Gene Hood, who had brought 200 people to a local ballroom to protest a Miss Gay America contest. Hood was so worked up that he told the local paper: "If they try this another time, I'm telling you, there's going to be bloodshed. We mean business. There are some red-blooded men in Indianapolis, and we won't stand for this."

Rush Limbaugh on 'decaf'

On Hood's station and others, Pence presented himself as what he termed "Rush Limbaugh on decaf," delivering his extreme positions with a softer voice. When a female officer was punished by the Air Force for an extramarital affair, he bemoaned the "normalization" of adultery and declared "the seventh commandment contained in the Ten Commandments is still a big deal." He railed against Hollywood immorality, and called Jack Kevorkian, who helped terminally ill people commit suicide, "a monster."
The Pences moved from Catholicism to conservative evangelicalism and committed themselves to shared beliefs about society and politics. When she was still a teacher, Karen Pence wrote a letter to the Indianapolis Star criticizing an article that informed young readers about a hotline where they could ask questions about sexuality. She wrote:
"No wonder our youth are confused. I only pray that most parents were able to intercept your article before their children were encouraged to call the Gay/Lesbian Youth Hotline which encourages them to 'accept their homosexuality' instead of encouraging them that they are not."
 
Pence: Arpaio a champion of rule of law
 
 
 

 

 

 
 
 

 

Pence: Arpaio a champion of rule of law 01:36
Like Karen and others in their conservative subculture, Mike Pence argued that homosexuality was a medical disorder that could be cured through prayer and therapy. In this period the Pences joined a congregation affiliated with the Evangelical Free Church of America, which condemned homosexuality. In 2003 the church would echo Karen Pence's words with a statement that decried "the current state of confusion in our culture regarding sexuality and especially homosexuality."
In the 2004 election campaign, marriage equality became a hot button issue and a number of states approved measures to deny gay people equal rights.
Courts would later determine largely that such bans were unconstitutional, but Pence held fast to his position.
This issue, along with unwavering opposition to abortion and gun control, as well as loyalty to the pro-business donors who made him a successful fundraiser, represented the religious aspect of his political identity. It would soon command a national stage.
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31283

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Replace "Christianity" with --assholery-- everywhere in that article.  I don't see how anyone who professes to be a Christian can condone that level of assholery in the name of Christ.

 

I also find it disgusting that he's never held a real job.  He's a fucking professional ideologue.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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gyroprotagonist

gyroprotagonist 2591

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38 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yeah, just about everything in the article paints a portrait of a guy who really sucks (literally and figuratively).  He also has the requisite hypocrite bona fides.  I especially enjoyed the parts about his own fraternity hosting wild parties and then him snitching on others for bringing alcohol and shaming the woman who attended.  But of course it’s fine for him to be a member and enjoy all the benefits of frat life.

yeah, i didn't get that.  Was it just a checklist thing to be president of something in college that would look good on his cv?  would he just go to his room and repress his homosexuality when everyone else getting their animal house on?

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9674

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Roos also said of Pence: "He said that God told him he would be president." 

 

God:  MIKE, YOU WILL BE PRESIDENT  (of a frat, will rat out your brothers, and be a closeted gahy your whole life)

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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57 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

Roos also said of Pence: "He said that God told him he would be president." 

 

God:  MIKE, YOU WILL BE PRESIDENT  (of a frat, will rat out your brothers, and be a closeted gahy your whole life)

Is there anything to this closeted gay guy stuff or is it just surly being surly?....asking for a friend.

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WhatTheBuck

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7 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Is there anything to this closeted gay guy stuff or is it just surly being surly?....asking for a friend.

He just fits the profile of the outspoken anti-gay ultraconservative Christian Republicans who eventually get caught having sex with other men whether they're picking them up in airport bathrooms, preying on Congressional pages, or going on vacation with male escorts. 

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HOOK'EMHOOAH

HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606

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14 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He just fits the profile of the outspoken anti-gay ultraconservative Christian Republicans who eventually get caught having sex with other men whether they're picking them up in airport bathrooms, preying on Congressional pages, or going on vacation with male escorts. 

The rest of the world doesn't have a problem with him or anyone else doing so. It's just he and all the other hardline bigots that have to beat their chest about being the strongest man's man their is and get so inflamed about everything when they are caught doing anything, even if no one else actually cares and actually accepts others who prefer such a lifestyle for themselves. It's really just bigotry that can't be accepted.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21102

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7 minutes ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

The rest of the world doesn't have a problem with him or anyone else doing so. It's just he and all the other hardline bigots that have to beat their chest about being the strongest man's man their is and get so inflamed about everything when they are caught doing anything, even if no one else actually cares and actually accepts others who prefer such a lifestyle for themselves. It's really just bigotry that can't be accepted.

No shit.  Just suck some dick and be happy, Mike.  Or let your wife untuck his penis and plow you hard.  Either way, lighten the fuck up. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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10 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

No way Pence is a "top". 

Is he a power bottom? We had a thread on that once years ago....I forgot the definition supplied to us by posters in the know. 

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He just fits the profile of the outspoken anti-gay ultraconservative Christian Republicans who eventually get caught having sex with other men whether they're picking them up in airport bathrooms, preying on Congressional pages, or going on vacation with male escorts. 

Remember Pastor Ted Haggard? A gay friend of mine told me he and his buddies all called him "Pastor Bookstore," because they knew his type from old-school gay porn shops. Before he was caught....

5 minutes ago, RPM said:

Explains. so. much.

I grew up Catholic and am not religious at all now but have a certain tribal loyalty to the breed, if none at all to the faith. That Pence rejected Catholicism to become an Evangelical is a mortal sin, even to this agnostic. You can leave the church to become a Jew, a Buddhist, a Lutheran, an Episcopalian, a Unitarian, or like me, just reject faith altogether, but CATHOLICS DO NOT BECOME EVANGELICALS. (Unless you are from Brazil or something...)

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Is he a power bottom? We had a thread on that once years ago....I forgot the definition supplied to us by posters in the know. 

Remember Pastor Ted Haggard? A gay friend of mine told me he and his buddies all called him "Pastor Bookstore," because they knew his type from old-school gay porn shops. Before he was caught....

I grew up Catholic and am not religious at all now but have a certain tribal loyalty to the breed, if none at all to the faith. That Pence rejected Catholicism to become an Evangelical is a mortal sin, even to this agnostic. You can leave the church to become a Jew, a Buddhist, a Lutheran, an Episcopalian, a Unitarian, or like me, just reject faith altogether, but CATHOLICS DO NOT BECOME EVANGELICALS. (Unless you are from Brazil or something...)

True this.  I had a post up in another thread detailing some of my experience as a Catholic experiencing evangelical Catholicism, which is/was a real thing.  For someone wanting to go that route (evangelical) there is plenty of room for you in the Church.  Not sure what turned Pence off of Catholicism: Could be a lot of things .  I doubt it had anything to do with sex crimes stuff as he had converted before those came out, unless of course he was a victim himself. The Church does not, nor ever has, taken to literal interpretation of the bible, so that might be one thing.  The Church has also become/been very racially diverse on a worldwide basis as far as members go-it is also not unusual to see Catholic pastors of all races in the American church-and by all races I mean all (I have seen black, South American, Pacific Islander, Asian, Chinese, Mexican, all European, middle eastern and everything in between.) So if Pence has racist leanings, that might also account for some of his reasoning.  Might just be a political thing since he has apparently long held presidential aspirations.

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5106

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On 9/19/2018 at 9:15 AM, pepper brooks said:

mike is definitely an a-hole.  CNN should try and be a real news organization and do in-depth hit pieces like this on every candidate running for national office.  

Don't see you around much anymore, Pepper.  Considering you were second behind Emory in your concern for the deficit, I figured you'd be over here nonstop bitching about the out of control Congress.  At least that's what you claimed you'd be doing.  I guess I was right after all, deficits only matter to you when your team isn't running things.  

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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On 8/30/2018 at 10:02 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Is he a power bottom? We had a thread on that once years ago....I forgot the definition supplied to us by posters in the know. 

Remember Pastor Ted Haggard? A gay friend of mine told me he and his buddies all called him "Pastor Bookstore," because they knew his type from old-school gay porn shops. Before he was caught....

I grew up Catholic and am not religious at all now but have a certain tribal loyalty to the breed, if none at all to the faith. That Pence rejected Catholicism to become an Evangelical is a mortal sin, even to this agnostic. You can leave the church to become a Jew, a Buddhist, a Lutheran, an Episcopalian, a Unitarian, or like me, just reject faith altogether, but CATHOLICS DO NOT BECOME EVANGELICALS. (Unless you are from Brazil or something...)

My Church of Christ pasture was a Catholic before he moved to Texas. I guess I'd feel the same for a CoC member becoming Baptist in a sense.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25898

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On 9/20/2018 at 9:38 AM, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Don't see you around much anymore, Pepper.  Considering you were second behind Emory in your concern for the deficit, I figured you'd be over here nonstop bitching about the out of control Congress.  At least that's what you claimed you'd be doing.  I guess I was right after all, deficits only matter to you when your team isn't running things.  

Have you considered the possibility that Ol' Pepper is just full of shit?

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