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Posted
4 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Congrats John Robert’s. Enjoy your golden shower victory celebration. Two heads of state pissing all over you. 

Is that "facilitating"?  Cuz I don't think that's facilitating ... I can't wait to see how John R. cucks himself next.  

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Trump.

Is telling us.

What he will do.

It is flatly illegal, and he is fucking coming for you.  Dead fucking serious, he is coming for American citizens, no due process, black-bagged and shoved into a foreign prison beyond the reach of the law before sundown the day you're grabbed.

And remember, every single fucking Trumpkin, including every one of his supporters/enablers around here, is okay with it.  They are okay with the Regime disappearing Americans with whom it disagrees.  Trumpkins are fucking fascist authoritarians, and are enemies of all free people - or people who would be free.

We're going to have to fight for it, and filing papers in courts ain't gonna get it done anymore.  We are outside the Rule of Law now.  

But it will take someone who is a white US citizen to go over there to raise hell. And that’s not what he wants. If he can send any person of color over there, the sad thing is that most Americans won’t care. Again, he is a symptom of the problem. The average white American is okay with most, if not all of this.  

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Posted

I'm sorry, "home-growns are next"? As in, kidnapping natural born citizens and sending them off to jails/camps with zero due process? Man, if we had an opposition party they could go hog wild with something like that. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dr. Teeth said:

But it will take someone who is a white US citizen to go over there to raise hell. And that’s not what he wants. If he can send any person of color over there, the sad thing is that most Americans won’t care. Again, he is a symptom of the problem. The average white American is okay with most, if not all of this.  

The speed with which we went from "the leader of the free world" to "just fine with disappearing our own citizens for any reason at all and with zero due process" surprises even me, the doom-and-gloom cynic.

I grew up where we made fun of and looked down on countries that would disappear their people to gulags with no recourse.  Now, we gleefully plunge headlong into being one of those countries, and our fellow countrymen are its biggest cheerleaders.

I said it on here earlier, and it's only becoming clearer: it's getting real close to the point where every single person in this country should arm themselves, and make a deliberate decision of whether they will go quietly if/when federal forces try to grab them.  When you extinguish the Rule of Law -- which disappearing people to a foreign prison with no due process and no way out absolutely does -- then you opt into a different set of rules.  Everyone should at least consider whether they are going to have to play by them.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

@Ojo Rojo, please share with us how we're reading this all wrong, and how we aren't now a full-on authoritarian state that allows the Regime to ship anyone they want to a foreign prison with no due process and no recourse once they are imprisoned there.

 

6 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

@Ojo Rojo administration says it will make no effort to return him and has no obligation to. Still have faith? 

This all started when I said the Roberts court would follow the Constitution.  They did. From there, I have no faith in Trump Co. whatsoever.  I don't know if they will follow a Supreme Court order or not.  No one does.  We may find out soon.  What I recognize, that you aren't, is that this is a process; a very delicate one. It's not over. You keep saying it's over and that proves that the republic is done, the Supreme Court are proven stooges, etc. etc., when it's not actually over. The SCOTUS opinion was worded in a very specific way. Without knowing for sure, I would bet that in their deliberations Roberts called for 9-0 to send a message and in exchange the conservatives got their language about due regard to executive power over foreign affairs.  One thing this accomplished is that it gave Trump the ability to avoid a showdown.  He's fucking around, being a dick about it, of course.  Not answering the federal judge's questions, spouting bullshit.  Fine, douchebag.  The statement from Bukele was made while he was sitting in a room with Trump.  As a sycophantic pawn, what the fuck else would you expect him to say?  If Trump tells him to release the man, he will release him.  Simple as that.

What this will boil down to, I believe, is public opinion.  It's politics.  Do a majority of Americans believe Abrego Garcia should be returned?  Does that political analysis dictate that it would be politically advantageous to bring him back, or disadvantageous to not do so?  Same question with respect to defying the courts - politically good or bad?  I think the wonks are trying to crank out the answers and that's what everyone is waiting for. I think it's close, which is why it has taken as long as it has already.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Cool. Should be enough for impeachment (if we had a real Congress). 
 

And if anyone thinks this is a mischaracterization, he absolutely does say that starting at about 7:15 of the embedded X video.

Quote

Bukele: " ... a man of the people wanting to change everything." [Bukele fawning over Trump]

Trump: "[To Bukele] And they demanded it.  They love you. They love what you're doing. [Inaudible, something about your support]  The home-grown criminals are next. [To the group] I said the home-growns are next. The home-growns.  You got to build about 5 more places.

Bukele: "Yeah, we've got space." [Group in Oval Office all laugh.]

Trump: "It's not big enough ..."

I'm sure Roberts now has some Susan Collins level of concern.  Fucking coward.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

 

This all started when I said the Roberts court would follow the Constitution.  They did. From there, I have no faith in Trump Co. whatsoever.  I don't know if they will follow a Supreme Court order or not.  No one does.  We may find out soon.  What I recognize, that you aren't, is that this is a process; a very delicate one. It's not over. You keep saying it's over and that proves that the republic is done, the Supreme Court are proven stooges, etc. etc., when it's not actually over. The SCOTUS opinion was worded in a very specific way. Without knowing for sure, I would bet that in their deliberations Roberts called for 9-0 to send a message and in exchange the conservatives got their language about due regard to executive power over foreign affairs.  One thing this accomplished is that it gave Trump the ability to avoid a showdown.  He's fucking around, being a dick about it, of course.  Not answering the federal judge's questions, spouting bullshit.  Fine, douchebag.  The statement from Bukele was made while he was sitting in a room with Trump.  As a sycophantic pawn, what the fuck else would you expect him to say?  If Trump tells him to release the man, he will release him.  Simple as that.

What this will boil down to, I believe, is public opinion.  It's politics.  Do a majority of Americans believe Abrego Garcia should be returned?  Does that political analysis dictate that it would be politically advantageous to bring him back, or disadvantageous to not do so?  Same question with respect to defying the courts - politically good or bad?  I think the wonks are trying to crank out the answers and that's what everyone is waiting for. I think it's close, which is why it has taken as long as it has already.

I’ll tell you. The average poll will say that they think he should return. The average voter will say whether or not he returns will not impact their vote. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

Congrats John Robert’s. Enjoy your golden shower victory celebration. Two heads of state pissing all over you. 

 

did a court convict him of terrorist activities ?

Posted
7 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

What this will boil down to, I believe, is public opinion. 

I agree.  Which means I'm right -- it's over.  The Rule of Law is officially and completely dead.  Because the thing about the Rule of Law is, for it to work, it cannot just be what the public thinks at a given moment.  There have to be bedrock -- follow me here -- RULES.  That are enforced, and stand regardless of the political winds at the moment.  I'm a grown-ass man, I've never had any illusion that the Rule of Law is immune to political pressure, isn't shaped by it, etc.  But it HAS BEEN something that stood as a foundation and thus contrary to public opinion.

If "the Rule of Law" in the US is now just mob rule in the moment, then yeah....I am right.  It's over.  You should obtain and learn to use a firearm, and quickly.  Because that's the only rule left.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Red Five said:

"The home-grown criminals are next." 

Fine, start with the ones who have been found guilty on at least 34 felony counts. 

Hypocrisy is standing right in front of us with the J6 pardons. But again, that is okay because they are white. No one went to the streets for that. No one cared that they were pardoned. No one cares they might get back pay. The American people are telling you what they are okay with and the Republicans have spent the last 40 years telling them what to be okay with and what not to be. You can’t change it now. The only thing that Americans care about is their pocketbooks, which is why Trump used the pc to also get stocks back up again. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

 

This all started when I said the Roberts court would follow the Constitution.  They did. From there, I have no faith in Trump Co. whatsoever.  I don't know if they will follow a Supreme Court order or not.  No one does.  We may find out soon.  What I recognize, that you aren't, is that this is a process; a very delicate one. It's not over. You keep saying it's over and that proves that the republic is done, the Supreme Court are proven stooges, etc. etc., when it's not actually over. The SCOTUS opinion was worded in a very specific way. Without knowing for sure, I would bet that in their deliberations Roberts called for 9-0 to send a message and in exchange the conservatives got their language about due regard to executive power over foreign affairs.  One thing this accomplished is that it gave Trump the ability to avoid a showdown.  He's fucking around, being a dick about it, of course.  Not answering the federal judge's questions, spouting bullshit.  Fine, douchebag.  The statement from Bukele was made while he was sitting in a room with Trump.  As a sycophantic pawn, what the fuck else would you expect him to say?  If Trump tells him to release the man, he will release him.  Simple as that.

What this will boil down to, I believe, is public opinion.  It's politics.  Do a majority of Americans believe Abrego Garcia should be returned?  Does that political analysis dictate that it would be politically advantageous to bring him back, or disadvantageous to not do so?  Same question with respect to defying the courts - politically good or bad?  I think the wonks are trying to crank out the answers and that's what everyone is waiting for. I think it's close, which is why it has taken as long as it has already.

There is no legal mechanism to make Trump return him. SCOTUS already gave that out. It also took away the only mechanism to prevent this shit. You're whistling past the graveyard. You were confident that Roberts would respect the law, that a legal mechanism exists to get him home, that he would be returned home. All of that is wrong. There is no law. There is no remedy. Only a dark van and a gag. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

There is no legal mechanism to make Trump return him. SCOTUS already gave that out. It also took away the only mechanism to prevent this shit. You're whistling past the graveyard. You were confident that Roberts would respect the law, that a legal mechanism exists to get him home, that he would be returned home. All of that is wrong. There is no law. There is no remedy. Only a dark van and a gag. 

When do the impeachment proceedings start? Is that something that we still do? He's basically spent the first 10 weeks or whatever committing impeachable acts on a daily basis. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I agree.  Which means I'm right -- it's over.  The Rule of Law is officially and completely dead.  Because the thing about the Rule of Law is, for it to work, it cannot just be what the public thinks at a given moment.  There have to be bedrock -- follow me here -- RULES.  That are enforced, and stand regardless of the political winds at the moment.  I'm a grown-ass man, I've never had any illusion that the Rule of Law is immune to political pressure, isn't shaped by it, etc.  But it HAS BEEN something that stood as a foundation and thus contrary to public opinion.

If "the Rule of Law" in the US is now just mob rule in the moment, then yeah....I am right.  It's over.  You should obtain and learn to use a firearm, and quickly.  Because that's the only rule left.

We are in a cycle and a moment in time where all of this shit is possible. It's like a fucked up political El Niño. Citizens United royally fucked things up, as one factor.  Instead of doing what's right, what's needed, what's Constitutional, now it's "do the shit that nets us the most money." I have a stronger belief in the foundation than you do, clearly. What has to happen is failure. The policies of this administration, and all it stands for, have to fail spectacularly for people who supported it to understand we need to do things differently.  That is why I'm rooting for failure. And I think it will happen. There is no way you can do this much dumb, harmful shit without there being huge consequences. Or, if not, then it means nothing that happens in Washington matters one iota and I can stop caring about politics forever.

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Posted
50 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

If we manage to get through this, the next lib president is going to have to drop a Raytheon knife missile on that motherfucker.

The Dems should be negotiating a deal with Canada for them to set up a detention facility on Ellesmere Island where they can similarly "deport" enemies of the state, just in case they ever win back the White House.  Of course, they can't be expected to bat 1.000, so there may be a few folks questionably deported [**cough, cough, Elon **], but it will just be unfortunate collateral damage in trying to continue to make America great.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

There is no legal mechanism to make Trump return him. SCOTUS already gave that out. It also took away the only mechanism to prevent this shit. You're whistling past the graveyard. You were confident that Roberts would respect the law, that a legal mechanism exists to get him home, that he would be returned home. All of that is wrong. There is no law. There is no remedy. Only a dark van and a gag. 

IT'S NOT OVER YET.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

IT'S NOT OVER YET.

Let's say best case scenario SCOTUS issues an order this afternoon saying Trump MUST return the man to the United States.  What do you think happens next?  If Trump doesn't want him back, explain to me how he gets back here?

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes. It is. 

Yup. There's still technically a case ongoing, but Abrego Garcia will die in that prison before his case concludes. Roberts doesn't want him coming back any more than Trump does (nobody on the right wants him to be able to tell the American public about the conditions he's faced there), and he doesn't want to issue an order that Trump more directly rejects. 

The only limit on how many of us can now be black bagged and rendered to foreign gulags with no functional ability to assert our rights is logistics. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Let's say best case scenario SCOTUS issues an order this afternoon saying Trump MUST return the man to the United States.  What do you think happens next?  If Trump doesn't want him back, explain to me how he gets back here?

If the check on an unlawful president ignoring supreme court orders refuses to act as that check, then I suppose we're just stuck with the unlawful president destroying our country piece by piece for the next 3.75 years. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Let's say best case scenario SCOTUS issues an order this afternoon saying Trump MUST return the man to the United States.  What do you think happens next?  If Trump doesn't want him back, explain to me how he gets back here?

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

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Posted
Just now, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..........

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

Oh My Sweet Summer Child GIFs | Tenor

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

Counterpoint: Chief Justice Aileen Cannon. 

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Posted

Fuck the media:

 

image.png.3429969e4e9330f7e80fbadf97822c20.png

Fucking illegally kidnapped from this home and sent to prison. He wasn't "mistaken" anything. He wasn't merely "deported". He was sent to fucking prison. Fuck everything. 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

The fact you lay this out is proof it’s over

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

Yeah no.  That's going to provoke ANOTHER constitutional crisis regarding the ability of the judiciary to hold executive officials in contempt.

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

90% of the people sent to El Salvador did not have a criminal record. There are 200 Abrego Garcia’s. And the 10% that had criminal records shouldn’t be shipped off to a foreign prison with no due process. 
 

GIF by Giphy QA


I’m sure there are 100 similar stories. 
 

 

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Posted

i feel like people have to actually care and the different branches of government have to do something other than shrug for something to be considered a 'constitutional crisis'.

this is more like...a constitutional burp.

Posted
32 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes. It is. 

Agree. They are openly defying all courts on countless issues and whenever something actually gets before the Supreme Court, the SC goes out of its way to help the administration avoid any consequences. We’re cooked

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Posted
25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yup. There's still technically a case ongoing, but Abrego Garcia will die in that prison before his case concludes. Roberts doesn't want him coming back any more than Trump does (nobody on the right wants him to be able to tell the American public about the conditions he's faced there), and he doesn't want to issue an order that Trump more directly rejects. 

The only limit on how many of us can now be black bagged and rendered to foreign gulags with no functional ability to assert our rights is logistics. 

The part about Roberts is key. They want to “nod” to the rule of law, but they really don’t want to put POTUS in the spot of either complying with the order or outright defying it. So they gave him the room to pretend the court order doesn’t say what it says. 
 

And yes, democracy is over. The Constitution is over. There’s no grownups in quiet rooms making sure the worst doesn’t happen, there’s no judge stepping in to stop him, there’s no military planning to refuse an order.  
 

What you see is what there is. An angry, incoherent elderly man sitting next to a Central American strongman, threatening to send Americans to rot in a foreign prison where the law cannot help you.  The entire force and power of the United States is dedicated to giving you this. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:


I’m sure there are 100 similar stories. 
 

 

I was waiting for the quote from his dad where he says he still doesn’t regret his vote for Trump. Maybe he decided to keep that private. 

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

They issue a contempt order, after a couple of other procedural steps.  I think that would mean they would issue a bench warrant for Kristi Noem, the named party.  She stays jailed until Abrego Garcia is returned. Several other things could happen.  The U.S. Marshals, who would enforce the contempt order, might be instructed not to do so by DOJ.  Those marshals would then have a choice to make - follow the law or obey Trump.

The same US Marshalls that escorted DOGE kids into Congressional nonprofit buildings the executive didn’t control in order to hack computer systems and lock out employees? The ones that didn’t bother to get a warrant or legal authorization?

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The same US Marshalls that escorted DOGE kids into Congressional nonprofit buildings the executive didn’t control in order to hack computer systems and lock out employees? The ones that didn’t bother to get a warrant or legal authorization?

it bears repeating that elon's personal bodyguards were deputized as Marshalls and were almost certainly the individuals responsible for it

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Posted
Time to fire up that well regulated militia. 
 
 

Waiting to hear from the super conservatives in my life who have spent decades screaming about small government, freedom, and liberty. Crickets so far. So weird.
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