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Posted
13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Really fixated on me. Cool.

Go ahead and substantively respond. Do you understand the guy was here legally? Do you understand that the same process and orders that had him shipped to a foreign country could apply to you? Do you not see how your response is exactly like the Germans' response during WW II? If you don't want to be called out, don't post ignorant or hateful drivel. 

Posted

I think Eddie has a point in that a lot of people that aren't hardcore Trumpers didn't like the immigration situation under Biden.  They didn't know shit about it, just like they don't know shit about this either.

They're broadly in favor of restricting immigration and deporting people, especially alleged criminals, and don't give a fuck how the sausage is made.

So the lawlessness here will have to be carefully presented.  The base gives zero fucks, the "middle types" don't know enough about law to care much.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think Eddie has a point in that a lot of people that aren't hardcore Trumpers didn't like the immigration situation under Biden.  They didn't know shit about it, just like they don't know shit about this either.

They're broadly in favor of restricting immigration and deporting people, especially alleged criminals, and don't give a fuck how the sausage is made.

So the lawlessness here will have to be carefully presented.  The base gives zero fucks, the "middle types" don't know enough about law to care much.

But that isn't what he said. He didn't say "this has to be carefully presented." He said Democrats shouldn't make a big deal about it because it is a political loser. 

People dislike illegal immigration. This case isn't about that. And I agree it would be a mistake to frame it that way. But I also know with certainty that abandoning it merely because it is a "political loser" is fucking stupid and evil. Soon enough birthright citizenship will be a political loser. And everyone single person relying upon it (read: everyone) will be fucked. And apparently we shouldn't fight for that either. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Hahaha carefully presented. Reality left you behind a long time ago, man. 

Careful consideration is dead. Just like your beloved justice system. 

I think what he means by "carefully presented" is that they need to pick cases where the circumstances can't be cast as "the Dems just want to give illegal immigrants more rights than you have."  If you look at the way the Fox Cinematic Universe is presenting the Abrego situation, it goes something like this:

  1. He came into the country "illegally" at some point.
  2. He was arrested for being an MS-13 gang member.
  3. Trump is deporting him because he is an illegal engaged in terrorism in the U.S. 
  4. Trump just sent him back to his home country.
  5. Why do you want to protect a terrorist from being sent back to their home country where they can deal with him?

It's all fucking lies, but the average U.S. citizen has no appetite for nuance, so this version of the story is going to resonate with some, especially for those scared of brown immigrants (which is unfortunately a lot). The risk is that if the Dems latch on to a couple of situations like this that can be twisted in the minds of a good chunk of the country, all of a sudden we have another "Russia Russia Russia" situation where, even as the Trump administration engages in more blatant misconduct, people don't bother to listen.  Unfortunately, the Dems only have a few chances to make this stick - otherwise people will just tune out.

Edited by Gap03
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Posted

yeah...i have found myself thinking a LOT about how the average German citizen went about their daily lives in 1938 and beyond. like...i've been seeing those folks through a really different lens in recent weeks. 

i see how it happened. i really do. and my privileged, retired, blue-state self has developed some sincere empathy for those citizens. because, like...wtf, what do i do? there is no answer right now, none at all. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, mchookem said:

yeah...i have found myself thinking a LOT about how the average German citizen went about their daily lives in 1938 and beyond. like...i've been seeing those folks through a really different lens in recent weeks. 

i see how it happened. i really do. and my privileged, retired, blue-state self has developed some sincere empathy for those citizens. because, like...wtf, what do i do? there is no answer right now, none at all. 

exactly what you are doing. it's those whose hearts and minds need changing that we have to focus on. rehab as many as we can, leave the rest behind. they made their choice and there is no room in polite society for them. 

Edited by Longhorn_Fan68
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If you want people to believe something you say it's true over and over and over again. 

This.  So say something that actually IS true: The Trump administration plans to grab YOU, shove you in a van, and have you shoved in a hole in a foreign prison, never to be seen again.  If you get crossways with Elon Musk, if you say something the administration disagrees with, if you fall behind on ANY of your bills to a company that is owned by a billionaire....you are gone.  Forever.  Because you have no rights.  What is standing between YOU and Elon Musk deciding you should rot in hell?  Nothing.  Not a single thing.  They are coming for you.  Are you going to take that lying down?

That's got some truth to it.  And in this climate, SOME truth is more than enough.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, mchookem said:

yeah...i have found myself thinking a LOT about how the average German citizen went about their daily lives in 1938 and beyond. like...i've been seeing those folks through a really different lens in recent weeks. 

i see how it happened. i really do. and my privileged, retired, blue-state self has developed some sincere empathy for those citizens. because, like...wtf, what do i do? there is no answer right now, none at all. 

There will come a time when a shitload of regular, ordinary folks, like you, are going to have to stand between the gestapo and someone they intend to harm.  Do it.  Make sure someone records it.  And if they take a baton to you, protect your head, but let them hit you, and let out a pained scream that belongs in a horror movie.  

You damage fascists by making them commit their crimes in the open, against people who obviously don't deserve it (and you know exactly what I mean: "decent white folks").

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Posted
5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You fucking pussies, this is the kind of shit right here that millions of people the world over for hundreds of years have literally taken up arms and sacrificed their lives to fight against.  Look at those fucking blue hairs in Iowa yelling at Chuck Grassley.  Even most old racists hate this kind of shit.

Are you going to?

Posted
5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Are you going to?

 

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Are you a fed?

 

4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Are you a bot?

pics of boobs pls?

 

 

Wait, I thought we were doing a thing here.  Are we not doing a thing?

Posted
24 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

I think what he means by "carefully presented" is that they need to pick cases where the circumstances can't be cast as "the Dems just want to give illegal immigrants more rights than you have."  If you look at the way the Fox Cinematic Universe is presenting the Abrego situation, it goes something like this:

  1. He came into the country "illegally" at some point.
  2. He was arrested for being an MS-13 gang member.
  3. Trump is deporting him because he is an illegal engaged in terrorism in the U.S. 
  4. Trump just sent him back to his home country.
  5. Why do you want to protect a terrorist from being sent back to their home country where they can deal with him?

It's all fucking lies, but the average U.S. citizen has no appetite for nuance, so this version of the story is going to resonate with some, especially for those scared of brown immigrants (which is unfortunately a lot). The risk is that if the Dems latch on to a couple of situations like this that can be twisted in the minds of a good chunk of the country, all of a sudden we have another "Russia Russia Russia" situation where, even as the Trump administration engages in more blatant misconduct, people don't bother to listen.  Unfortunately, the Dems only have a few chances to make this stick - otherwise people will just tune out.

Yeah exactly.  This is too easily dumbed down by the GOP into an immigration issue.

Democrats are going to have to carefully message this.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

CECOT is going to go away sometime, somehow, and whatever comes out of it is going to be truly terrifying.

I'm pretty sure it's the same cell and the same prisoners they're showing in every one of these photo ops. There's reporting that the rest of the prisoners in their system get kept in even shittier prisons and I wouldn't be surprised if Bukele has turned those into death camps.

Posted
27 minutes ago, mchookem said:

yeah...i have found myself thinking a LOT about how the average German citizen went about their daily lives in 1938 and beyond. like...i've been seeing those folks through a really different lens in recent weeks. 

i see how it happened. i really do. and my privileged, retired, blue-state self has developed some sincere empathy for those citizens. because, like...wtf, what do i do? there is no answer right now, none at all. 

Jews were about one percent of Germany’s population.  There was broad agreement that sending Jews abroad was fine and the Nazi government had plenty of propaganda about how the camps were nice and temporary holding facilities until Jews could be sent to a permanent home in Madagascar or elsewhere. 
 

Death camps were placed in the occupied General Government of Poland and overseen by mostly German officers and recruited Trawniki men from Western Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics. (Poles generally did not work as camp guards or for the Nazis, Polish outright collaboration was rare). Poles especially did not want to collaborate with occupiers on their home soil. 
 

I say all this not to draw a direct comparison. But it is relevant. This government wants to conduct its worst abuses outside of the view and oversight of Americans. 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

pics of boobs pls?

 

 

Wait, I thought we were doing a thing here.  Are we not doing a thing?

I've always thought he could just be a bot because idk how any real person posts the most lukewarm ass lib takes that consistently over the years.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Jews were about one percent of Germany’s population.  There was broad agreement that sending Jews abroad was fine and the Nazi government had plenty of propaganda about how the camps were nice and temporary holding facilities until Jews could be sent to a permanent home in Madagascar or elsewhere. 
 

Death camps were placed in the occupied General Government of Poland and overseen by mostly German officers and recruited Trawniki men from Western Ukraine, Belarus, and the Baltics. (Poles generally did not work as camp guards or for the Nazis, Polish outright collaboration was rare). Poles especially did not want to collaborate with occupiers on their home soil. 
 

I say all this not to draw a direct comparison. But it is relevant. This government wants to conduct its worst abuses outside of the view and oversight of Americans. 

The direct comparison should absolutely be made. I hate the phrase "slippery slope" (in part because it is actually a logical fallacy), but that is exactly what this is. And I got to tell you, that slope is fucking steep. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Democrats suck at messaging. I do not: He was LEGAL. 

A quick flip over to KLBJ reveals that he was in fact illegal and the democrats are fools for wasting time on helping a criminal instead of fixing the economy.

The Right does not suck at messaging but they are unhindered by morals or shame.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

For those of you who say "but this only applies to non-citizens," let's presume you are correct.  Let's presume that non-US citizens can 1) have the Trump regime unilaterally determine that they are here illegally (with no due process), 2) unilaterally determine that they are criminals/terrorists (with no due process) and 3) ship them off to a prison in a foreign country, where the Trump regime can then claim "we have no control or ability to get them back" (meaning they will never, ever get any due process, and will die in that foreign prison).

You are only thinking about brown people. And we know that brown people are icky, and obviously all criminals, so they're getting what they deserve.

But that list above is not exclusive to brown people.  It applies to all non-citizens.  ALL OF THEM.  So, when my son's friends come visit us this summer, here's a scenario that is perfectly acceptable and ok, according to those of you who are chill with this.  They arrive in Austin from Heathrow.  An aggressive CBP agent doesn't like how they are dressed.  Says they look like terrorists.  Pulls them into secondary screening.  They are held there for hours, after which that same agent also determines that they are indeed genuine terrorists, and are human traffickers, and gang members.  Because he says so, and he is the final and only authority on the matter.  They are then put on an ICE transport bus, driven to an air field, put in chains, flown to El Salvador, and tossed in the hole never to be seen again.

Meanwhile, we're wasting our time downstairs at ABIA, waiting on two girls from Surrey and Manchester who have now been disappeared and will never be seen alive again.

Under the "legal" framework the Trump regime has set up and says is the law, and they cannot be constrained in their actions thereunder, that is 100% an allowable outcome.

Either you agree that this framework is also technically applicable to every non-American (read: every single visitor, tourist, business person, etc.) who visits the US, or you say "come on, Brisket....it's not that bad, it'll only be applied to brown people," which of course is not the excuse you think it is.  So, which is it?

 

what crime was committed to get a life sentience in el Salvador ?

Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Republican message: He came here illegally.

He was legal. Stand up for the constitution. 

18 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

A quick flip over to KLBJ reveals that he was in fact illegal and the democrats are fools for wasting time on helping a criminal instead of fixing the economy.

A caller is currently shoving it up their ass 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

He was legal. Stand up for the constitution. 

At the time of his deportation, absolutely, but you know as well as I do that Republicans will ignore that and focus on the manner in which he entered the country.

Posted
7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

At the time of his deportation, absolutely, but you know as well as I do that Republicans will ignore that and focus on the manner in which he entered the country.

Stop your fucking whining and just say you think it’s bad, man.

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Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's terrible. I wish I knew how to convince a recalcitrant administration to comply with a court order. 

Marshals.  With guns.  Some are loyal to the Constitution.  Find them.  Use them.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

At the time of his deportation, absolutely, but you know as well as I do that Republicans will ignore that and focus on the manner in which he entered the country.

Think they’ll do it with Elon?

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Posted
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

But that isn't what he said. He didn't say "this has to be carefully presented." He said Democrats shouldn't make a big deal about it because it is a political loser. 

People dislike illegal immigration. This case isn't about that. And I agree it would be a mistake to frame it that way. But I also know with certainty that abandoning it merely because it is a "political loser" is fucking stupid and evil. Soon enough birthright citizenship will be a political loser. And everyone single person relying upon it (read: everyone) will be fucked. And apparently we shouldn't fight for that either. 

People dislike immigration except for all the times when they directly or indirectly benefit from it. Let’s keep it 100.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Gap03 said:

I think what he means by "carefully presented" is that they need to pick cases where the circumstances can't be cast as "the Dems just want to give illegal immigrants more rights than you have."  If you look at the way the Fox Cinematic Universe is presenting the Abrego situation, it goes something like this:

  1. He came into the country "illegally" at some point.
  2. He was arrested for being an MS-13 gang member.
  3. Trump is deporting him because he is an illegal engaged in terrorism in the U.S. 
  4. Trump just sent him back to his home country.
  5. Why do you want to protect a terrorist from being sent back to their home country where they can deal with him?

It's all fucking lies, but the average U.S. citizen has no appetite for nuance, so this version of the story is going to resonate with some, especially for those scared of brown immigrants (which is unfortunately a lot). The risk is that if the Dems latch on to a couple of situations like this that can be twisted in the minds of a good chunk of the country, all of a sudden we have another "Russia Russia Russia" situation where, even as the Trump administration engages in more blatant misconduct, people don't bother to listen.  Unfortunately, the Dems only have a few chances to make this stick - otherwise people will just tune out.

Who gives a shit. God damn. Maybe we should all just capitulate and let Fox News be the only arbiter of truth.

1) false

2) false 

3) false

4) true

5) false.

This risk is that we continue to bitch out because we are scared of just calling bullshit bullshit.

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah exactly.  This is too easily dumbed down by the GOP into an immigration issue.

Democrats are going to have to carefully message this.

Everything is easily dumbed down because the people they are messaging are dumb. Who gives a fuck what trumpers think? That’s not who we are trying to convince. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Who gives a shit. God damn. Maybe we should all just capitulate and let Fox News be the only arbiter of truth.

1) false

2) false 

3) false

4) true

5) false.

This risk is that we continue to bitch out because we are scared of just calling bullshit bullshit.

There's being right and saying the right thing when something happens, which Democrats are kinda ok at.

Then there's messaging that  wins elections, which they suck giant green donkey dicks at.

Posted
1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Everything is easily dumbed down because the people they are messaging are dumb. Who gives a fuck what trumpers think? That’s not who we are trying to convince. 

The convincable middle is pretty fucking dumb too.  See November 2024.

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Posted
39 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

At the time of his deportation, absolutely, but you know as well as I do that Republicans will ignore that and focus on the manner in which he entered the country.

Who fucking cares?

Posted
16 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It's terrible. I wish I knew how to convince a recalcitrant administration to comply with a court order. 

It’s quickly becoming obvious that convincing them will take violence, and probably a lot of it, 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's being right and saying the right thing when something happens, which Democrats are kinda ok at.

Then there's messaging that  wins elections, which they suck giant green donkey dicks at.

This isn’t about winning an election and thinking that way is why we get stupid milquetoast bullshit from so many Dems.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's being right and saying the right thing when something happens, which Democrats are kinda ok at.

Then there's messaging that  wins elections, which they suck giant green donkey dicks at.

Yeah. They suck because they try to do what you're saying they should try to do. 

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