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Posted
2 hours ago, scottsins said:


On a related note, this John Oliver segment on immigration court from 7 years ago is just rage-inducing. Elementary school aged kids appearing in court with no guardian and no attorney:

 

 

 

i joked a couple of weeks ago about John being deported if he's not careful. i no longer think it's a joke. he'll be okay bc he has fame and money, but it will still be fucked up. 

Posted
19 minutes ago, mchookem said:

i joked a couple of weeks ago about John being deported if he's not careful. i no longer think it's a joke. he'll be okay bc he has fame and money, but it will still be fucked up. 

too much light

 

Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

THAT actually doesn't surprise me.  But it does seem like a lot of immigrants with lawful status really are here legally at the sufferance of the US.

Kinda like probation.

Yes, being in the United States as anything other than a citizen means you can be removed.  Having a legal permanent residence status gives you protections that a visa holder doesn’t have. A visa holder? You are indeed here at the discretion of the U.S. government. 
 

Which makes sense, because being sent home is not a punishment, it’s an administrative action.  There is no entitlement for a non-citizen to remain in the United States and for non-immigrants there is the opposite of an entitlement. Getting sent to prison is a punishment.  The federal government has broad discretion as to what aliens can be admitted and remain. 
 

The outrage over Garcia is:

1. The government didn’t adhere to its own ruling not to remove him. 

2. The government is paying to have him jailed by a foreign government with no sentence and no appeal.  
 

I agree with @immamac, lets not conflate a visitor who couldn’t avoid getting arrested and got sent home (to get an F1 visa you have to attest that you have a home you intend to return to) with someone who got extrajudicially disappeared into a foreign penal colony with no legal avenue to appeal. 
 

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Posted
13 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Marshals.  With guns.  Some are loyal to the Constitution.  Find them.  Use them.

Marshals under the control of the DOJ?

Good luck with that. 

Posted

If this country survives, one of the major reforms is separating the DOJ from the executive branch and the AG being an elected position. The executive can never have this much power over the DOJ again 

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Posted
1 minute ago, SubliminalHorn said:

If this country survives, one of the major reforms is separating the DOJ from the executive branch and the AG being an elected position. The executive can never have this much power over the DOJ again 

Unfortunately, the executive is supposed to be the branch responsible for adherence and enforcement of the law. Structurally, the executive branch is currently acting explicitly against it's constitutional mandate with how frequently it's breaking laws and defying lawful court orders

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Unfortunately, the executive is supposed to be the branch responsible for adherence and enforcement of the law. Structurally, the executive branch is currently acting explicitly against it's constitutional mandate with how frequently it's breaking laws and defying lawful court orders

Right, which is why we need to reform it all and make sure the executive doesn’t have sole authority over the DOJ

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Posted

Media reports that man living living Maryland who has children is a Maryland father. What a crazy spin.

Due process is now terrorism. All those doomers during the Bush administration have been completely vindicated.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

Okay, so cool. I "aided and abetted" a terrorist when I called my congressman to bitch about the lack of due process for this dude and foolishly gave them my name.

Good to know.

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Posted
Just now, Valmy77 said:

Media reports that man living living Maryland who has children is a Maryland father. What a crazy spin.

Due process is now terrorism. All those doomers during the Bush administration have been completely vindicated.

I still remember the things that scared me the most then were Gitmo and the US attorneys scandal, when they fired a bunch of prosecutors for refusing to gin up evidence of Democratic illegal voting conspiracies. Feels, uh, not great to have been pretty much on the fucking money with those worries.

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Posted
Spoiler

 forbes.com
Trump Advisor Suggests Deportation Critics Are Breaking The Law By ‘Aiding And Abetting’ Terrorism
Siladitya Ray
4–5 minutes
Topline

The White House’s Senior Director for Counterterrorism, Sebastian Gorka, attacked people seeking the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia—the Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador last month—and suggested that opposition of the Trump administration’s deportation efforts may be a federal crime, becoming the latest Trump official to go after critics of the administration’s crackdown on immigrants.
President Trump Holds Swearing-In Ceremony At The White House For U.S Attorney For New Jersey

White House National Security Council Senior Director for Counterterrorism Sebastian Gorka attends a ... More swearing-in ceremony in the Oval Office at the White House.
Getty Images
Key Facts

In an interview on Newsmax on Wednesday night, Gorka echoed other Trump administration officials in labeling Garcia, whose deportation was initially blamed on a “clerical error” and an “oversight,” as a “member of an organization that we recently designated as a foreign terrorist organization.”

Gorka insisted that Garcia’s removal was a national security issue, alleging he was a member of the MS13 gang—an allegation Garcia’s attorneys have repeatedly denied.

The counterterrorism advisor then attacked lawmakers who have expressed support for Garcia, saying his deportation was not a “left and right” or “Republican or Democrat” issue but rather “Do you love America, or do you hate America?”

Gorka claimed that Trump and his cabinet “love America” and “want to protect Americans,” while the “other side” was “on the side of the cartel members…terrorists.”

The counterterror advisor then suggested that people opposing the deportation efforts were “technically aiding and abetting criminals and terrorists” and therefore breaking federal law.

Get Forbes Breaking News Text Alerts: We’re launching text message alerts so you'll always know the biggest stories shaping the day’s headlines. Text “Alerts” to (201) 335-0739 or sign up here.
Surprising Fact

Brendan Carr, the chair of the Federal Communications Commission, also waded into the controversy surrounding Garcia’s deportation and subsequent imprisonment in El Salvador by accusing the media of being biased on the issue. In a post on X, the Trump appointee appeared to threaten Comcast’s broadcasting license by alleging it was “distorting the news.” Carr wrote: “Comcast outlets spent days misleading the American public—implying that Abrego Garcia was merely a law abiding U.S. citizen, just a regular 'Maryland man.’ When the truth comes out, they ignore it.” Carr reiterated the Trump administration’s claim that Garcia was “validated as a member of the violent MS13 gang,” something the deported man has never been charged with or convicted of. Carr added, “Comcast knows that federal law requires its licensed operations to serve the public interest. News distortion doesn’t cut it.”
Tangent

Carr’s post reshared a tweet made by White House Communications Director Steven Cheung where he attacked CNN and MSNBC for failing to carry a tearful speech from the White House briefing room made by Patty Morin—the mother of Maryland woman, Rachel Morin, who was killed in 2023 by a Salvadoran migrant who illegally entered the U.S. Morin’s case is unrelated to Garcia’s deportation, but White House officials including Cheung and Stephen Miller have lashed out at CNN and MSNBC for failing to carry Morin’s speech live.
Further Reading

Trump Administration Says It Will Simply Re-Deport Kilmar Abrego Garcia If He Is Brought Back To U.S. (Forbes)

Trump Administration Claims It Would Have To ‘Kidnap’ Erroneously Deported Maryland Dad From El Salvador (Forbes)

Trump Administration Likely Committed Criminal Contempt With El Salvador Flights, Judge Rules (Forbes)

 

 

Posted
15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Okay, so cool. I "aided and abetted" a terrorist when I called my congressman to bitch about the lack of due process for this dude and foolishly gave them my name.

Good to know.

I hope you like Salvadorian food.

Posted
1 minute ago, Tuco said:

You joke, but that is exactly what they are after.  

There is this great part in "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" that talks about how the point of the secret police (Prague, post 1968) isn't to arrest people who are dangerous to the state, it's to make everyone think twice about who is listening, how their actions would be perceived by the state, and what the state might be holding over them.  Going after students on visas over social media posts makes everyone consider their social media posts.  

I wasn't joking. We should all be acutely aware (if it hasn't already dawned on us) that everything happening right now has one purpose: to control the masses through fear and intimidation.

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Posted

it's a bit weird there so much focus on Abrego Garcia when 90% of those deported to the El Salvadorian gulag do not have a criminal record. What are their stories?

Yes, i guess you could be a M-13 member with no criminal record, but that, in my mind, would seem the rare bird. Are most M-13 gang members master criminals who never get caught?!

Now, i suppose the Trump administration would say mere membership in an organization officially recognized by our government as a terrorist group is a crime. But none of these men deported were convicted of that.

So your only crime (for those 90%) is that you are here illegally in this country? Does that warrant a life sentence in a prison in your home country?

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I hope you like Salvadorian food.

So long as it doesn't involve mayonnaise, sour cream, ranch dressing, or tartar sauce, I should be able to choke most of it down.

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Posted
24 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I wasn't joking. We should all be acutely aware (if it hasn't already dawned on us) that everything happening right now has one purpose: to control the masses through fear and intimidation.

Everyone is aware. Everyone is worried how well it is working. 

Posted
15 minutes ago, yoladu said:

it's a bit weird there so much focus on Abrego Garcia when 90% of those deported to the El Salvadorian gulag do not have a criminal record. What are their stories?

Yes, i guess you could be a M-13 member with no criminal record, but that, in my mind, would seem the rare bird. Are most M-13 gang members master criminals who never get caught?!

Now, i suppose the Trump administration would say mere membership in an organization officially recognized by our government as a terrorist group is a crime. But none of these men deported were convicted of that.

So your only crime (for those 90%) is that you are here illegally in this country? Does that warrant a life sentence in a prison in your home country?

 

I am watching closely to see what comes out of the Venezuelans’ cases.  The gay makeup artist we stashed there makes me especially furious. 
 

Yesterday the WH had the mother of a murdered young woman come to the press briefing as part of the press push to justify keeping Garcia there.  Just pure blood libel type garbage.  I knew it was coming but I’ve been shocked at how fast we’ve plunged into dystopia. 
 

And I say that as a (relative) immigration hawk.  I’ve worked in the field and seen first hand the questionable application of asylum claims and attendant ills. The way to address that is via legislation and border enforcement.  What we are seeing is a grotesque mockery of anything lawful and blatant extrajudicial punishments. In all seriousness, a lot of the cabinet and some career officials should be imprisoned for this. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, yoladu said:

it's a bit weird there so much focus on Abrego Garcia when 90% of those deported to the El Salvadorian gulag do not have a criminal record. What are their stories?

Yes, i guess you could be a M-13 member with no criminal record, but that, in my mind, would seem the rare bird. Are most M-13 gang members master criminals who never get caught?!

Now, i suppose the Trump administration would say mere membership in an organization officially recognized by our government as a terrorist group is a crime. But none of these men deported were convicted of that.

So your only crime (for those 90%) is that you are here illegally in this country? Does that warrant a life sentence in a prison in your home country?

 

because few know who they are.  

Posted
25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It is shocking that the Anastasis isn't in this thread. You'd think the guy obsessed with military tribunals, prisons, and lack of due process in them would be all over this issue. Weird. 

Yeah, see, it turns out Ana was "both sides" when one side was in power....but now that the authoritarian oligarchical right has full control.....he has very little to say on the "both sides" front.  Indeed, he finds himself consistently excusing and justifying the actions and overreach of the Trump Regime in ways and to an extent that he never even came close to when democrats were in power.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Stop attacking my people

 

7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Oh, great. Now, I'm a race traitor to boot.

This week just keeps getting better.

 

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

White foods matter, bitch

On second thought, I may be getting on board this whole "deport regular white Americans to a gulag" thing.

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, see, it turns out Ana was "both sides" when one side was in power....but now that the authoritarian oligarchical right has full control.....he has very little to say on the "both sides" front.  Indeed, he finds himself consistently excusing and justifying the actions and overreach of the Trump Regime in ways and to an extent that he never even came close to when democrats were in power.

on a similar tangent but more off topic, the last trump flags in my neck of the woods came down after he crashed the markets

but, but, he crashed the markets for everyone!  both sides!

Posted

what the fuck is that?

are those olives inside jello?

that is gross

nbc

Spoiler

New documents detail government's case that mistakenly deported man was a gang member
By Daniella Silva, Laura Strickler and Gary Grumbach
8–10 minutes

The Trump administration released documents Wednesday that revealed new details in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man deported to El Salvador a month ago in what a government lawyer called an “administrative error.”

The documents were released after weeks of pressure on the government to prove its contention that Abrego Garcia was a member of the MS-13 gang. The Trump administration sent him to a notorious megaprison in the Central American country as part of its promised deportation program of alleged criminals.  

The Justice Department shared records, not previously made public, detailing how police officers in Maryland assessed Abrego Garcia was a member of the MS-13 gang during an arrest in 2019. He had no criminal history at the time, which the documents also state, and his attorneys have denied that he is a gang member.

In a document titled “gang field interview sheet,” the Prince George’s County Police Department detailed how in March 2019 it approached Abrego Garcia along with three other people for loitering at a Home Depot parking lot in Hyattsville. Abrego Garcia said in a court filing that he was there looking for day labor work.

Police said he was wearing “a Chicago Bulls hat and a hoodie with rolls of money covering the eyes, ears and mouth of the presidents” on the bills.  

The officers said such insignia — indicating “ver, oir, y callar” or “see no evil, hear no evil and say no evil” — was “indicative of the Hispanic gang culture.” The officers said they consulted with a reliable confidential source, who “advised that [Abrego Garcia] is the rank of ‘Chequeo’ with the moniker of ‘Chele’” in the gang.  

Abrego Garcia was handed over to immigration authorities, and he wound his way through the legal process. Later in 2019, an immigration judge barred him from being sent to El Salvador. The order said he proved he had a “well-founded fear of future persecution” from local gangs, and he was granted a withholding of removal to the country, which allowed him to stay in the United States temporarily and receive a work permit.  

Years later, in 2025, immigration agents stopped Abrego Garcia in an Ikea parking lot. He was deported to El Salvador days later, on March 15.

The Supreme Court ruled last week that the government must “facilitate” his release from the prison. Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele said in a meeting at the White House this week that he would not release Abrego Garcia.

"Mr. Abrego Garcia has never been convicted of a crime. If the government believes there is a legitimate case to be made, it should present that case in a court of law and have a judge review and decide his fate—not on social media," his lawyers said in a statement. "We look forward to the government complying with the Court’s order and facilitating Mr. Abrego Garcia’s immediate release from custody in El Salvador. We will continue to fight for our client’s safe return and to ensure his constitutional rights are fully restored."

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said in a statement Wednesday, “We hear far too much in the mainstream media about sob stories of gang members and criminal illegals and not enough about their victims.”  
Kilmar Abrego Garcia
Kilmar Abrego Garcia.Murray Osorio PLLC via AP

Police determined during the 2019 arrest that two other people who were with Abrego Garcia in the Home Depot parking lot were gang members, citing one man’s criminal history and another man’s tattoos, as well as information from an unidentified person who was a “past proven and reliable source of information.”

The documents said that the four men said they were citizens of El Salvador and were “present in the United States illegally” and that they did not have immigration documents on them.  

Another document released Wednesday, from the Department of Homeland Security in 2019, said police identified two men, one of whom was Abrego Garcia, as being having been previously detained in a murder investigation. Abrego Garcia denied being connected to a murder investigation, the documents say, and he was never charged.  

A page of the document includes a contradiction — at one point it says Abrego Garcia did not claim a fear of returning to his country, but later it says he did claim fear of returning to El Salvador.  

The document said Abrego Garcia claimed he had presented sufficient evidence to refute the gang allegation, including character references and his lack of criminal record, minus traffic offenses.

In another document from the Justice Department’s Executive Office of Immigration Review, a court agreed to deny Abrego Garcia bond after his arrest outside the Home Depot in 2019 and wrote that the allegation that he is a gang member “appears to be trustworthy and is supported by other evidence in the record” in the Prince George’s County police documents.

“The reason for the Respondent’s arrest given on his Form 1-213 does appear at odds with the Gang Field Interview Sheet, which states that the Respondent was approached because he and others were loitering outside of Home Depot,” the document said, but it added that it still found the allegations of his gang membership to be supported.

Abrego Garcia responded that “there is no reliable evidence in the record to support” that he is a member of MS-13 and that the allegation “is based on hearsay relayed by a confidential source.”

Aside from the new documents, the Department of Homeland Security posted on social media earlier Wednesday that Abrego Garcia’s wife had sought a temporary protective order against him in 2021. The case was ultimately dismissed. Abrego Garcia’s wife, Jennifer Vasquez Sura, has been a strong, vocal supporter of her husband and has fought for his return.  

“After surviving domestic violence in a previous relationship, I acted out of caution after a disagreement with Kilmar by seeking a civil protective order in case things escalated,” Vasquez Sura said in a statement Wednesday. “Things did not escalate, and I decided not to follow through with the civil court process.

“No one is perfect, and no marriage is perfect. That is not a justification for ICE’s action of abducting him and deporting him to a country where he was supposed to be protected from deportation,” she added.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration, Abrego Garcia’s lawyers and an appeals court judge continue to litigate the Supreme Court’s instruction that the government facilitate his release.  

The Trump administration Wednesday afternoon filed an appeal of U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis’ order last Thursday to the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in which she directed the Trump administration to “take all available steps to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia to the United States as soon as possible.”  

Xinis questioned the evidence an immigration judge used to determine that Abrego Garcia is a gang member. She said in a ruling that he has no criminal record in the United States or El Salvador and that the “‘evidence’ against Abrego Garcia consisted only of his Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie, and a vague, uncorroborated allegation from a confidential informant claiming he belonged to MS-13’s ‘Western’ clique in New York — a place he has never lived.”

Xinis said Tuesday that she was considering contempt proceedings against the Trump administration.

She had ordered the government to supply evidence of efforts it has have taken to “facilitate” Abrego Garcia’s release, and on Tuesday she criticized the government’s lack of response.

“I’ve gotten nothing,” Xinis said. “I’ve gotten no real response and no real legal justification for not answering.”

In a court-ordered daily status update, DHS general counsel Joseph Mazzara wrote, “Given the government’s prior clear and unequivocal notice to the court regarding how the government will facilitate Abrego Garcia’s return within the counters of existing law and regulation, there are no further updates.”

 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

what the fuck is that?

are those olives inside jello?

that is gross

 

image.thumb.png.16d0fc2649e9a37fda91bc3d66a9e1bc.png
 

It’s a fiesta treat!

image.png

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Posted
2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

It is shocking that the Anastasis isn't in this thread. You'd think the guy obsessed with military tribunals, prisons, and lack of due process in them would be all over this issue. Weird. 

high quality GIF
 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

It is shocking that the Anastasis isn't in this thread. You'd think the guy obsessed with military tribunals, prisons, and lack of due process in them would be all over this issue. Weird. 

Turns out all libertarians actually do is whine about age of consent laws, fall for crypto rug pulls, eat hot chip, and lie.

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Posted
21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah exactly.  This is too easily dumbed down by the GOP into an immigration issue.

Democrats are going to have to carefully message this.

Let’s face it. Resonant messaging for Democrats will always be an issue because Republicans can and do craft easy to understand lies formulated for people who want to be lied to.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Resonant messaging for Democrats will always be an issue because Republicans can and do craft easy to understand lies formulated for people who want to be lied to.

Nah, we’re just conditioned to accept victimization.



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