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Posted
1 minute ago, achooloco said:

wrong. He was granted asylum, nothing questionable at all about it. He is a legal resident, full stop. If you don’t agree you’re wrong and you need to educate yourself 

To clarify, he wasn't granted asylum.  He applied for asylum, but you have to apply within a year of entering the country so it was denied.  He was granted protection from removal, which I've heard is more rare and a higher bar to clear than asylum.

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

Everyone who acquiesces or defends evil is. This is evil. Telling folks this isn't worth fighting for is the behavior of the ignorant or a villain. He can still choose to be on the right side of this, but he isn't there yet. I'm quite comfortable in my judgment here and I'm not retracting it. 

I'm doing neither and I don't think JBJ is either. You are being a shithead. 

Posted
22 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So an underappreciated (at least by me) aspect of the road to fascism is that there is apparently a large percentage of the population who don't realize how dire the situation is because they don't want it to be that bad. Because it would make them uncomfortable if the country they love is in that bad of a situation.

We've all known about and talked about the two main groups that get focused on that lead to authoritarian states. There's the group that loves it and wants it, the fascists. And there's the group that just doesn't care enough about anything as long as they have their comforts, which while they suddenly disappear once it's too late they're still there on most of the journey. This group is the morons. A third group in the modern version is the team sport politics dunderheads who will believe anything their team says. We all know about that newer third group.

I had not realized how big the fourth group is. Fairly intelligent people who simply can't believe what's happening so they don't believe what's happening. "But how can that be? This is my country, we don't do that." We've got a few around here in that group for sure.

And while @immamac doesn't like it, that group has to be woken up. Kind coddling isn't going to make them understand, because they inherently and deep within their minds don't want to understand.

Here's how I would group them:

  1. Fascists
  2. Tacit fascists
    1. Partisans: Yay, team!
    2. Morons: It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?
  3. Denialists
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Posted
23 minutes ago, JBJ said:

This specific case is actually stupid all around.  Democrats want it to look outrageous

I rarely neg, but this got one. 

Posted
Just now, fuggled said:

To clarify, he wasn't granted asylum.  He applied for asylum, but you have to apply within a year of entering the country so it was denied.  He was granted protection from removal, which I've heard is more rare and a higher bar to clear than asylum.

Higher bar to clear, but a worse status.  It's more like TPS, immigration proceedings can continue, but the hold prevents certain orders from being actionable.  It's literally immigration limbo and is a bad system.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm not wrong about fucking anything. In case you forgot I have a responsibility to the community to keep it fucking going. 

I'm not carrying water for shit, I'm adding context to the fucking situation beyond a small slice that everyone wants to focus on a villify everyone outside of that slice regardless of context. 

I don't give a fuck about his status personally, I'm saying A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER FUCKING PEOPLE DO

You’re wrong about the fucking facts so educate yourself or stay out of the fucking conversation, you’re fucking wrong 

Edited by achooloco
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Posted
3 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm doing neither and I don't think JBJ is either. You are being a shithead. 

You aren't. I understand what you're saying. But he literally did (see below). Now, it appears a lot of that was because he didn't know what he was talking about and conflated this with other cases. And that is my point, the only ones saying this doesn't matter are either ignorant or evil. He was pretty fucking determined to be in the latter category by asserting clearly incorrect facts. Either he was parroting lies (including that the guy is a member of MS-13) or he was being obstinate in his refusal to acknowledge that maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. While the latter isn't AS bad, it certainly isn't a good quality either. 

3 hours ago, JBJ said:

1) This is the dumbest thing to have a constitutional crisis over.  I don't see El Salvador releasing the guy without a bribe.  I don't see the guy being released free on the US everr.  He'll get arrested and notice as soon as he's on soil, file habeus, lose, and get deported again. 

2) The due process remedy the left wants already exists and it is habeas corpus and only habeus corpus.  Those notices are sent specifically to give potential deportees time to file.

 

3 hours ago, JBJ said:

If you are of the opinion he was going to win a habeus case, his lawyers fucked up royally.

 

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

I'm not okay with it.  That's why I said this is the dumbest thing to have a constitutional crisis over. 

Even if the whole thing was manufactured by his lawyers to create this situation or something like it (which I do think the odds of are north of 0%), this isn't the right guy for it.

I am a stickler for the process.  I'm just applying it to both sides here.  This judge should have originally told the lawyers to fuck off and file for habeus and we wouldn't be here at all.

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

 

They have definitely all but defied the court in court.

In court, they're still trying to be cagey about it.

 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm not wrong about fucking anything.

There it is. Imma was right about everything! Where have we heard that phrase before?

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You aren't. I understand what you're saying. But he literally did (see below). Now, it appears a lot of that was because he didn't know what he was talking about and conflated this with other cases. And that is my point, the only ones saying this doesn't matter are either ignorant or evil. He was pretty fucking determined to be in the latter category by asserting clearly incorrect facts. Either he was parroting lies (including that the guy is a member of MS-13) or he was being obstinate in his refusal to acknowledge that maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. While the latter isn't AS bad, it certainly isn't a good quality either. 

It's at the bottom of last page, but I said I was combining the two cases in my head.

What's funny is it took two pages from someone to even notice without simply slinging an insult.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

Kind of interesting that he's pretending he's not driving this.  He's going to have more executive protection from court processes, either traditionally or under the Sondergericht, than cabinet-level and lower officials.

Xinis' strategy may work out pretty well for getting to the heart of this:  depose lower-level functionaries that gave affidavits, find out who directed them, and work their way up.  The natural tendency of the functionaries is to blame it on superiors, "just following orders."  But if one of them admits responsibility at a level lower than POTUS, the court may be able to successfully order return.

 

Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

It's at the bottom of last page, but I said I was combining the two cases in my head.

What's funny is it took two pages from someone to even notice without simply slinging an insult.

My guy, we told you multiple times you were wrong about the facts. You kept confidently rebutting everyone. That's not on us. 

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

My guy, we told you multiple times you were wrong about the facts. You kept confidently rebutting everyone. That's not on us. 

Maybe.  But it's also why this forum has a thread dedicated to how big of a shithole it is. 

Posted
1 minute ago, royiv said:

There it is. Imma was right about everything! Where have we heard that phrase before?

I am in here giving context and you guys are doing exactly what I'm telling you to stop doing to everyone else to me, but it doesn't work because I own the fucking place. Call the cops bitch. Oh wait I am the cops. Lol 

I specifically didn't say I was right, because that's not what I'm trying to get after here. I'm trying to get people to stop going full outrage. 

Just now, Dahobbs said:

My guy, we told you multiple times you were wrong about the facts. You kept confidently rebutting everyone. That's not on us. 

Yeah but he eventually got there, like he always was going to get there because he's in fact not a horrible troll piece of shit poster. Which is entirely my god damned point. 

Posted
28 minutes ago, JBJ said:

I've answered this several times.  It's not okay.  It's on purpose, too.  You guys want me to be something that I'm not.

You said it wasn’t the hill to die on. My dude, Paul Revere was arrested 250 years ago TODAY. If putting limits on the head of state isn’t worth defending, nothing is. 

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Posted
20 minutes ago, fuggled said:

To clarify, he wasn't granted asylum.  He applied for asylum, but you have to apply within a year of entering the country so it was denied.  He was granted protection from removal, which I've heard is more rare and a higher bar to clear than asylum.

Well, fuck me, you’re right I was wrong. I will make a note of that when I’m explaining this to my trumpy cousin and my gf’s trumpy family in az (all Mexicans or Ecuadoreans with illegal immigrant family members currently in the USA… sigh, can’t fix stupid)

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Posted
1 minute ago, achooloco said:

Well, fuck me, you’re right I was wrong. I will make a note of that when I’m explaining this to my trumpy cousin and my gf’s trumpy family in az (all Mexicans or Ecuadoreans with illegal immigrant family members currently in the USA… sigh, can’t fix stupid)

Will Ferrell Comedy GIF by filmeditor

^^^ clearly in jest/sarcasm

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Posted
1 minute ago, immamac said:

Yeah but he eventually got there, like he always was going to get there because he's in fact not a horrible troll piece of shit poster. Which is entirely my god damned point. 

 

 

Posted
Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

You said it wasn’t the hill to die on. My dude, Paul Revere was arrested 250 years ago TODAY. If putting limits on the head of state isn’t worth defending, nothing is. 

My dude, Beastie Boys weren't even alive that long ago.

The facts still just aren't great to die here.  This guy is Claudette Colvin, not Rosa Parks.

Posted
6 minutes ago, immamac said:

I specifically didn't say I was right, because that's not what I'm trying to get after here. I'm trying to get people to stop going full outrage. 

Telling people to calm down about the government black bagging people without due process is certainly a choice. It's gonna play nicely when it starts happening to citizens

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Posted
1 minute ago, immamac said:

I am in here giving context and you guys are doing exactly what I'm telling you to stop doing to everyone else to me, but it doesn't work because I own the fucking place. Call the cops bitch. Oh wait I am the cops. Lol 

I specifically didn't say I was right, because that's not what I'm trying to get after here. I'm trying to get people to stop going full outrage. 

Yeah but he eventually got there, like he always was going to get there because he's in fact not a horrible troll piece of shit poster. Which is entirely my god damned point. 

Dude, you stifle more conversation than anyone by throwing out absolutes and calling anyone who dares to question or disagree with you a shithead or idiot. You think you’re the smartest guy in the room, but really you’re just a self fellating JAG with milquetoast opinions on everything. You stan for idiots under the guise of “it’s good for the community” while the rest of us snicker at your narcissistic personality traits that make you think you’re god’s gift to EVERYTHING.

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Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

My dude, Beastie Boys weren't even alive that long ago.

The facts still just aren't great to die here.  This guy is Claudette Colvin, not Rosa Parks.

To quote Judge Brian E. Murphy in US District Court today responding to DHS's lack of due process:

"All nine sitting justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, the Assistant Solicitor General of the United States, Congress, common sense, basic decency, and this Court all disagree."

 

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282404/gov.uscourts.mad.282404.64.0.pdf

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Posted

ACLU is filing motions in multiple courts out of fear DHS is getting ready to deport more people to El Salvador under the AEA.

 

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Posted

Missed this before my prior post.  Sounds like deportees are already getting loaded onto buses after less than 24 hours notice.  DHS might be trying to test the Supreme Court's definition of "reasonable".

 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It's at the bottom of last page, but I said I was combining the two cases in my head.

What's funny is it took two pages from someone to even notice without simply slinging an insult.

So given the fact that a major part of your argument was that it's his lawyers fault for not filing habeas corpus, has your opinion changed at all? Part of the reason you are still getting shit is because you seemingly realize that a major input was completely wrong but don't seem to be adjusting your conclusion.

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Posted
42 minutes ago, JBJ said:

My dude, Beastie Boys weren't even alive that long ago.

The facts still just aren't great to die here.  This guy is Claudette Colvin, not Rosa Parks.

I disagree about the facts. But, even assuming you credit any of the "facts" suggesting he is not an ideal person, those are exactly the sort of people that the law must protect. We guarantee the rights of everyone by guaranteeing the rights for the worst of us. Our criminal jurisprudence has been built on those cases. Surrending here is surrendering the rule of law and due process entirely. Believing otherwise is either evil or ignorant. 

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Posted
Forget it.  I was meaning to leave anyway. I'm feeling sick at work, but this clearly isn't the place to discuss this topic. 

Did you ever explain the “child trafficking” allegation you just threw out there initially? I haven’t even seen that asserted by the WH or right wing propagandists.
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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Kind of interesting that he's pretending he's not driving this.  He's going to have more executive protection from court processes, either traditionally or under the Sondergericht, than cabinet-level and lower officials.

 

Not really; it's his MO.  The moment he feels an issue is getting away from him he shifts the blame/credit onto others.

We are almost a full decade in the Trump Experience.  The moment he doesn't take responsibility for anything, whatever it is, no matter how large or benign, you know something's about to change.  

 

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Posted

PC Results:

 

Quote

April 18, 2025, 4:24 p.m. ET21 minutes ago
Chris CameronReporting from Washington

Van Hollen said he was able to visit Abrego Garcia on Thursday in San Salvador after a failed effort to visit the notorious prison where it was thought he was being held. Van Hollen said that he and his staff were stopped by soldiers en route to the prison and were told that they were under orders to bar him from accessing the prison.

“All of a sudden,” he said. “I got word that I would be allowed to meet with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and they brought him to the hotel where I was staying.”

 

April 18, 2025, 4:26 p.m. ET19 minutes ago
Robert JimisonReporting from Washington

Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland says that Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia has been moved to a separate detention center in Santa Ana, El Salvador, “where the conditions are better.”

 

Chris Cameron
April 18, 2025, 4:26 p.m. ET18 minutes ago
Chris CameronReporting from Washington

In Van Hollen’s telling, Abrego Garcia said that he was arrested by United States government agents in Maryland while driving with his 5-year-old son, who has autism, before being taken to a detention center in nearby Baltimore.

“He asked to make a phone call from there to let people know what had happened to him,” Van Hollen said. “But he was denied that opportunity.”

 

April 18, 2025, 4:28 p.m. ET17 minutes ago
Chris CameronReporting from Washington

“This case is about upholding constitutional rights for Abrego Garcia and for every American,” Van Hollen said. “President Trump and the Trump administration wants to say that those who are fighting to stand up for our Constitution don’t want to fight gang violence. That is an outright lie. That is a big, big lie.”

 

April 18, 2025, 4:31 p.m. ET15 minutes ago
Tim Balk

Van Hollen said he had told Abrego Garcia that “millions of Americans understand that what is happening to him is a threat to their own constitutional rights.” He also told Abrego Garcia about court decisions ordering the Trump administration to facilitate his return, he said. “All of that gave him strength,” Van Hollen said.


 

14 minutes ago
Robert JimisonReporting from Washington

Van Hollen is noticeably emotional during this press conference, with his voice quivering as he talks about what he has repeatedly said are unjust actions by the government under the direction of President Trump. “This is an issue for every American,” he says, as he concludes his prepared remarks.

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, scottsins said:


Did you ever explain the “child trafficking” allegation you just threw out there initially? I haven’t even seen that asserted by the WH or right wing propagandists.

It's in the DHS release.  Biden's DHS mind you.

Screenshot_20250418_164818_Chrome.jpg

Edited by JBJ
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, scottsins said:


Did you ever explain the “child trafficking” allegation you just threw out there initially? I haven’t even seen that asserted by the WH or right wing propagandists.

It was completely made up, and the first time it was even uttered was by Nazi Barbie press secretary cuntcrust.  It is a complete fabrication, with no support in any record, finding....anything. 

It is -- as most things in Trumpland are -- just a fucking lie.  And yeah, see the cite above....just shit that was never found or adjudicated.  At all.  By anyone.

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted
2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Well he's only lied about both the facts and the law. I guess we're supposed to pretend he's not doing that?

the diaper cheeto and his minions from hell are the ones lying

jbj like every other sincere maga have been told they are right(eous) for the last 30 years and that what they are told by the liars is true, and they are programmed to not question what they are told, and ipso facto because they are righteous, any facts that counter what they are told are not processed when they encounter said facts

tl/dr: it's not a lie to maga if they believe it

coro-larry: it's a fact if their programming tells them it is

answer to the question: no - we shouldn't have to tolerate it

should we spot aggy 2 scores so they will want to hang around while we beat their ass?

Posted
It's in the DHS release.  Biden's DHS mind you.
Screenshot_20250418_164818_Chrome.thumb.jpg.563bbe4fb8ab3b58e922f43d571fd576.jpg

Where does it say “child trafficking” or “child/children”.

PSA for some folks:

Human trafficking is a general description of the exploitation of humans for the benefit of another. Doesn’t mean kids, doesn’t mean just transporting and doesn’t mean sex stuff necessarily. They stated that they suspected him of human trafficking, seemingly for transporting unpaid, coerced laborers to some job site, etc.

* of course, the stated basis for that belief is simply a bunch of dudes with no ID in a car going far to work somewhere. That’s not much of a smoking gun.
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Posted
2 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

it's rare that someone's position is so unbelievably wrong?...stupid?...nonsensical? that I can't even formulate a response. I can't even think of the word to describe it.

telcoaggyan

Posted
37 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

So given the fact that a major part of your argument was that it's his lawyers fault for not filing habeas corpus, has your opinion changed at all? Part of the reason you are still getting shit is because you seemingly realize that a major input was completely wrong but don't seem to be adjusting your conclusion.

Changes:

The idea that it was a manufactured case for political reasons is from the Boasberg one.  I still think that one is.  But this one definitely wasn't his lawyers fault or deliberate nor the judge's (although giving on simple thing like the deadlines would be helpful.)

 

Things that haven't changed:

This was an Executive error.

Trump is resisting the court order or at least maliciously compliant while he is farming it for support.

It's a losing fight de facto (best result is he's released from prison and joins his family in El Salvador, but he's not coming back in any meaningful way.)

It's not any sort of case to have a constitutional crisis over.

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Posted (edited)

The Texas district judge in question is James Wesley Hendrix, a Trump appointee that broadly lacks the "hack cred" that most of the minions have.

Still appalling.

Also, Chad Meacham is the acting USA ND Tex.  He's been an AUSA for a long time, like 20 years, and by most accounts a pretty solid guy if a bit of a tough on crime true believer.  Will be interesting to see how robustly his office represents the Administration.  Oh, also he was acting during most of the Biden Administration, as well.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
22 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Biden's DHS

There is no "Biden's DHS." The rank and file of that agency openly hated and consistently undermined Obama and Biden when they were president, and of course in true liberal fashion Obama and Biden sat there and took it because "when they go low we go high" and our cherished norms, and we need to court Liz Cheney. Don't believe DHS's lies.

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