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Did anyone else hear that explosion just now in North Austin?


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Posted
21 minutes ago, PTINS said:

1 gal of propane is equivalent to 36.4 FT3 of propane. With lower and higher combustible limits of 2% and 9.5%, the combustible cloud of of a propane/air mix would be between 383 FT3 and 1820 FT3, before ignition.

Thats per gallon, correct?  So one gallon leaking into an 1820 ft3 kitchen could ignite, and spectacularly so?  That's not a lot of liquid propane.

If I read your post correctly, a full (400 gallon) tank fully leaking into a house would have too high a concentration of gas to ignite.  Is that right?

Posted
On 4/14/2025 at 9:11 AM, South Austin said:

The only claim I've ever had to make under my USAA homeowner's policy was when a tree limb fell on the metal roof of my first home in 2004.  As I recall, USAA paid quickly and fully for the repairs.  But I have heard their claims department has gone south over the past decade.  Good luck.

I don't think USAA's deterioration extends to refusal to pay claims.  They just used to have really spectacular service, kid gloves stuff, and that has fallen off substantially.

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Posted
Thats per gallon, correct?  So one gallon leaking into an 1820 ft3 kitchen could ignite, and spectacularly so?  That's not a lot of liquid propane.
If I read your post correctly, a full (400 gallon) tank fully leaking into a house would have too high a concentration of gas to ignite.  Is that right?

If it leaked all at once, then yes it would be too rich to burn. LEL of propane is 2.1-9.5%, or 21,000-95,000 ppm. That’s decently wide flammable range, although not as significant as say Acetylene which is 2-97%.

The problem with a propane leak is if the product finds an ignition source while the concentration by volume is between the LEL and UEL, then you have boom boom. You can absolutely have a leak that saturates the atmosphere above the UEL, in which case no boom boom. Then someone comes along and opens a door or window, or the HVAC kicks on and drops the concentration in the room below the UEL and it finds an ignition source (think refrigerator compressor motor in the beginning of Fight Club). Then boom boom time.

We typically kill power and gas to the entire structure to remove and then use an intrinsically safe device to ventilate.
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Posted
1 hour ago, PTINS said:

 

Propane has a lower flammability limit of 2% and a higher flammability limit of 9.5%, meaning the propane concentration in air has to be between 2 and 9.5% for combustion. 

 

Is that because there's not enough oxygen?  That's quite counterintuitive.  I would've thought the higher the concentration the easier it would be to combust.

Posted
22 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:


If it leaked all at once, then yes it would be too rich to burn. LEL of propane is 2.1-9.5%, or 21,000-95,000 ppm. That’s decently wide flammable range, although not as significant as say Acetylene which is 2-97%.

The problem with a propane leak is if the product finds an ignition source while the concentration by volume is between the LEL and UEL, then you have boom boom. You can absolutely have a leak that saturates the atmosphere above the UEL, in which case no boom boom. Then someone comes along and opens a door or window, or the HVAC kicks on and drops the concentration in the room below the UEL and it finds an ignition source (think refrigerator compressor motor in the beginning of Fight Club). Then boom boom time.

We typically kill power and gas to the entire structure to remove and then use an intrinsically safe device to ventilate.

This. Kill Power. No lights, HVAC, doorbells, nothing that sparks. Kill Gas. No pilot lights.

In dry climates, static electricity is an issue. Combing or running your hands through your hair.

Posted
41 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think USAA's deterioration extends to refusal to pay claims.  They just used to have really spectacular service, kid gloves stuff, and that has fallen off substantially.

Correct. That and they now drop people pretty aggressively. 

Posted
1 hour ago, PTINS said:

To be clear, the Brenham underground storage did not explode. The storage was overfilled in excess of capacity, and leaked until the product ignited.

The product that leaked was a Natural Gas Liquid (NGL) "Y-Grade" mix, a combination of Ethane, Propane, Normal Butane, Iso Butane, and a "Natural Gasoline"mix, a combination of pentane (C5) and heavier hydrocarbons that are a vapor at room temperature and pressure.

Propane and 'Y-Grade" are similar in that both of the vapors are heavier than air, and will tend to accumulate and lay in lower areas, until they eventually dissipate, or ignite.

Natural Gas (methane) is lighter than air and dissipates rather quickly. 

Addressed below.

If propane leaks, it will leak until the source is empty. And it will either eventually dissipate, or find an ignition source, and explode. In an open field, with a bit of wind, it will dissipate.

In a closed environment, like a house, it will accumulate towards the bottom, and absent any air movement or circulation, will stay there until it ignites.

The video, and absence of black smoke, is indicative of complete combustion, meaning there was sufficient oxygen to completely burn the fuel source. The residual smoke would come from whatever ignited in the blast, wood, furniture, clothing, etc.

At my ranch house, item #1 on my posted "Rules", "If you smell gas, leave."

Unfortunately, you have to open the door and turn on the lights and walk to read the rules. 

Residential propane and natural gas both have an odorant added (ethyl mercaptan, a sulfur compound that smells like rotten eggs.) I would think that smell would have been noticeable where the propane was leaking and accumulated, but it may not have been noticeable through out the house.

Propane has a lower flammability limit of 2% and a higher flammability limit of 9.5%, meaning the propane concentration in air has to be between 2 and 9.5% for combustion. 

I had the same question...

And Surly answered it ... before I could. 

1 gal of propane is equivalent to 36.4 FT3 of propane. With lower and higher combustible limits of 2% and 9.5%, the combustible cloud of of a propane/air mix would be between 383 FT3 and 1820 FT3, before ignition.

After ignition, watching from somewhere distant is a good place to be.

Good post Chief, but Surly gotta Surly. FIFY

"They had forgot to put in the valve that metered the gas flow regulator that reduced the pressure from 4.5 to 0.5 psi, so I had 4.5 psi going to the cooktop..."

Propane is extremely volatile/bad ass. Very explosive and because it is heavier than air, extremely dangerous.

Early in my career, I ran through ~ 150 ft wide propane cloud from a tanker truck leak during loading. Very eerie. The open 2" valve sounded like a jet engine, a cloud appeared from nowhere, and the air temperature dropped like a rock. Still can't believe I did that.

Better to run away. Assess the situation from a safe vantage point. Respond accordingly.

Excited Wake Up GIF by Originals

Posted
4 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

There’s plenty I can see. Which makes me paranoid about what I can’t see. I have a feeling we’ll be going down to studs but holding out hope otherwise. Yeah right now trying to find a 6 month rental that feed to Laurel Mountain Elementary. We have 2 we’re going to look at later today but both want 12 months and insurance won’t cover that…yet (until they know how extensive the damage is).

We’re doing as well as can be expected. Wife is handling the kids, they went to school on Monday. We are doing stupid shit like sorting through piles of glass trying to find Legos pieces in my son’s room and trying to repair a broken light saber he just got at Disneyland last month because that what he was most upset about in his 8yo brain. I know it’s dumb but it gave us something to do until insurance finally showed up.

Dude, get the rental for 12 months. Your going to need it for that long sadly. Insurance is slow, and I'd imagine a structural engineer is going to want to expose everything before he even drafts up a plan.  Permitting, delays, move in and move out time...

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Posted
Dude, get the rental for 12 months. Your going to need it for that long sadly. Insurance is slow, and I'd imagine a structural engineer is going to want to expose everything before he even drafts up a plan.  Permitting, delays, move in and move out time...

I plan to expose everything later when my wife gets home and do a little moving in and out myself. Won’t be much of a delay either.
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Born to Run said:

Dude, get the rental for 12 months. Your going to need it for that long sadly. Insurance is slow, and I'd imagine a structural engineer is going to want to expose everything before he even drafts up a plan.  Permitting, delays, move in and move out time...

My daughter's friend had their house struck by lightening close to a year ago (if not longer) that ignited a fire.  Drove by the other day and repair work had just started. I asked my daughter about it and she said it was due to insurance pushback. 

Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think USAA's deterioration extends to refusal to pay claims.  They just used to have really spectacular service, kid gloves stuff, and that has fallen off substantially.

Dealing with USAA right now.  They have detiorated on both ends, bad customer service and not willing to pay.  In a big fight with them.  Hope you have better luck than I am having. 

For those considering USAA for their insurance, I suggest you look around before you go with them.  I will be dropping them.

Posted
1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

Is that because there's not enough oxygen?  That's quite counterintuitive.  I would've thought the higher the concentration the easier it would be to combust.

Correct. Think about it this way. When you light a stove burner, or propane grill the flame only ignites the propane with the proper propane to oxygen mixture. If the higher concentration was more combustible, the flames would ignite the propane, in the lines, eventually make it back to the tank and create quite the shit show.

CHIEF

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Nonbryan said:

Dealing with USAA right now.  They have detiorated on both ends, bad customer service and not willing to pay.  In a big fight with them.  Hope you have better luck than I am having. 

For those considering USAA for their insurance, I suggest you look around before you go with them.  I will be dropping them.

Not to derail the thread too far, but my experience with USAA continues to be 5-star all around.  Been a customer for over 30 years and have never once had an issue with service or claims.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Not to derail the thread too far, but my experience with USAA continues to be 5-star all around.  Been a customer for over 30 years and have never once had an issue with service or claims.

You sound like someone that would be wise to shop around and see what other insurers are charging….

Posted
10 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Not to derail the thread too far, but my experience with USAA continues to be 5-star all around.  Been a customer for over 30 years and have never once had an issue with service or claims.

Have you made a claim in the last year or so? I never had an issue before last October.

I have USAA and my wife was hit by a person with USAA. Every step of the way deny, delay. Took 6 weeks to get them to admit fault. Phone calls and emails not returned on a regular basis. Claims of computer issues so call back later. Denial of rental car coverage, finally get them to pay and they pay a partial amount. Absolutely the worst experience I have ever had dealing with an insurance company.

Posted
17 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Not to derail the thread too far, but my experience with USAA continues to be 5-star all around.  Been a customer for over 30 years and have never once had an issue with service or claims.

If you haven’t dealt with them in the last two years on a claim, then the perspective is out of date. The number of complaints about them are skyrocketing, including from many many former employees who’ve left, disgusted. I think they will fix it, but it will take awhile. 

Posted
21 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

You sound like someone that would be wise to shop around and see what other insurers are charging….

 

18 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Have you made a claim in the last year or so? I never had an issue before last October.

I have USAA and my wife was hit by a person with USAA. Every step of the way deny, delay. Took 6 weeks to get them to admit fault. Phone calls and emails not returned on a regular basis. Claims of computer issues so call back later. Denial of rental car coverage, finally get them to pay and they pay a partial amount. Absolutely the worst experience I have ever had dealing with an insurance company.

 

11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

If you haven’t dealt with them in the last two years on a claim, then the perspective is out of date. The number of complaints about them are skyrocketing, including from many many former employees who’ve left, disgusted. I think they will fix it, but it will take awhile. 

I had an $80K claim paid for water damage in 2023 and just had another $3.4K claim paid for water damage a month ago.  All smooth as glass and rates have stayed steady.  Maybe it's a difference between homeowners and auto.  I can't speak to current auto claims since I haven't had to file a claim for that in ~25 years.

Posted

My main issue with USAA was price creep, and that appears to be the most common complaint on the veterans subreddits.  
 

Everyone thinks they are better because they bill themselves as veteran focused, but at this point it’s just branding.  

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Posted

KXAN just mentioned that not only was the final inspection completed in late March, the certificate of occupancy was also issued at that point.  Would that shift the liability?  They also interviewed an insurance guy who seemed to say that other homeowners who had suffered damage should be covered under their own policies.  

Posted
KXAN just mentioned that not only was the final inspection completed in late March, the certificate of occupancy was also issued at that point.  Would that shift the liability?  They also interviewed an insurance guy who seemed to say that other homeowners who had suffered damage should be covered under their own policies.  

1) It might shift the primary insurance (to the homeowner instead of the builder), but maybe not the liability. If the event was caused by the negligence of the builder, he’s still the target.
2) Yes, the other homeowners should be covered under their own policies, which is good, because there won’t be enough coverage on the policy of the home that bore up or of the builder to cover all the damage. The other homeowners’ carriers may and likely will go after the primary responsible parties’ coverage, but it won’t be enough to cover it all.

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