Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[El Squared 1793]

7 hours ago, PilotsError said:

 

This just shows how stupid and outdated the whole head coach concept is.  Hey, you're awesome at this one thing.  We're going to promote and hire you to NOT do this one thing anymore, and to instead hire others (including positions you probably don't know how to evaluate) and have them do things, while you now oversee this thing, which is a completely different skill from coordinating.  

/\. This is likely the most insightful post on this board, ever.

Predicting success based upon somewhat unrelated experience should be obvious but is not part of the usual process, it’s been a habit/tradition for decades though. 

[Jkwellborn 6653]

Surly horns seems to be a good description.
I just don't understand why so many of you were so happy with Charlie Strong when he had a losing record.  Herman got Texas back into the top 10 for the first time in 10 years and does have a winning record this year and you are already trying to fire him.
Sure, lots of room for improvement this year, but DKR had 3 straight 6-4 seasons before having the greatest Texas run of all time.
I'm not saying Herman is a DKR, but he's sure not anywhere near as bad as Shaggy's fave Charlie Strong.

The shit being trotted out on defense and special teams right now is literally worse than anything strong sent out.

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

The shit being trotted out on defense and special teams right now is literally worse than anything strong sent out.

our ST are not Charlie Strong levels.  yes the D is basically as bad but we have an offense to cover for it to keep games close.  everything sans the D in the first year sucked under strong.

[GotThatFire 166]

Our D is a mash unit. Damn shame

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 hours ago, BoosterAndrews said:

We sold our soul to the devil when we made the deal with ESPN for the LHN.

 

The LHN curse is real.

We did a perfectly adequate job of sucking from about 1980 to about 2000 without any LHN.

[nineliveslost 2710]

'91 gave us hope until the nut punch at the end

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

‘84-‘97

Close enough.  

I read an article sometime in the early 90s about the top 20 football teams of the 80s.  Texas wasn't on the list.  Air Force was.  And BYU.

[Guest Lobo]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

‘84-‘97

Except for those 4 pesky conference championships peppered in there.  Remind me how many Herman will have here at Texas by year's end?  

I pointed out that he was averaging 5 losses/year here at Texas.  And people loved to remind me that was too small a sample set, that he had yet to fully install his "culture" here at Texas.  Well, after three years, he's going to averaging closer to 6 losses/year.  And 3 years if enough of a sample set, because his ass is gone after 4 years.  

[El Squared 1793]

3 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

The last 2 coaching hires have been awful. Strong was an absolutely awful coach. Herman looks like he also sucks. 

Again...we all know that Texas will retain Herman after the season, even if Texas finishes 5-7. Would other schools do that in our situation? With Urban Meyer sitting out there? 

I think that last point answers the question...it isn't about cheating, it's about prioritizing winning. If you prioritize winning, you'd fire Herman and sign Meyer. If you don't, you put up with Herman's obvious deficiencies and let him keep making the same dumb mistakes every week. To me that's kind of the bottom line. 

It comes down to the decision, if you want to be FBS champion or even close, you have to consider coaches like Urban, otherwise throw up your arms, be all nice and go FCS, don’t think it’s possible to do both.

As an example, saying we would never consider Major Applewhite ( if he had the skillset we desire) because of his moral indiscretions is completely ludicrous and hypocritical and impossible to police.(Yes I also get  the Bev Kearney lawsuit barrier.) Just using that as an example. 

If we want to actually compete on this level we will have to consider the Urbana’s, Stoops, etc , it’s just a reality. For those that bring up Mack, he only won significantly with a freak called VY. Even with Colt he couldn’t put up an OL that would protect him. DKR was DKR and he got out of the game due to the moral erosion he couldn’t tolerate.

Edited October 28, 2019 by El Squared

[mdmost 42865]

Hmm, so you can fire a DC midyear.

[bschoolprof 6232]

We have won a conference championship at least once a decade for 100 years. Until now. Furk. 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

‘94 shouldn’t count and you know it. ‘90 and ‘95 we were exposed as frauds on a national level.  ‘96 - we were not a good team, and got lucky as fuck to win. 

Yeah Mackovic's championships were flukey as hell.  SWC falling apart, Nebraska tasting Texas' ass for the first time.

[Surly Bevo 24696]

I'd kill for Mackovic's creativity on offense, we already got his defense.

[Guest Lobo]

Yes, they were.  But hardware is hardware.  And Herman ain't gonna get us any of it.  Another fucking coach who thinks celebrating the 10-year anniversary of "Academy Sports+ Outdoors Texas Bowl" is a worthwhile occasion.  Good luck shithead.  

[The People’s Elbow 707]

7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Hmm, so you can fire a DC midyear.

You can if you’re serious about winning football games. 
 

You can’t if you’re serious about maintaining a belief you’re the smartest guy in the room. 

[El Squared 1793]

What really sucks is despite our alleged “advantages “ we are runner-up/bitch/ also ran in this conference some think is weak and shit and pathetic,....so what does that make us?

[El Squared 1793]

1 minute ago, The People’s Elbow said:

You can if you’re serious about winning football games. 
 

You can’t if you’re serious about maintaining a belief you’re the smartest guy in the room. 

So what you are saying is that UT has zero influence upon its contracted HC. If so , UT is weak and pathetic and deserves whatever happens.

[Laga4 1270]

3 hours ago, Not a Sock said:

Texas doesn’t care about winning it’s that simple. Texas wants to sit on piles of money and talk about its “brand” not actually dominating on the field.

Seems like there is a lot of truth in what you say.

It looks like we are the Dallas Cowboys of college football.

[El Squared 1793]

11 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yes, they were.  But hardware is hardware.  And Herman ain't gonna get us any of it.  Another fucking coach who thinks celebrating the 10-year anniversary of "Academy Sports+ Outdoors Texas Bowl" is a worthwhile occasion.  Good luck shithead.  

Maybe the answer to all this perpetual wandering in the desert and frustration is to go FCS and battle Texas State, Sam Houston, UTSA, Incarnate Word, etc in conference of “friendlies “ with a goal of making the Participation Bowl. If we want to be the big boys , we have to play and act like the big boys.

Edited October 28, 2019 by El Squared

[BoosterAndrews 113]

31 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

We did a perfectly adequate job of sucking from about 1980 to about 2000 without any LHN.

Here’s something to consider:

From 1980-2000 Texas football won five conference championships. As I’m sure you know we’ve only won two since then.

 

EDIT: And ZERO conf. championships since the LHN was created

Edited October 28, 2019 by BoosterAndrews
LHN curse mention

[mdmost 42865]

6 minutes ago, El Squared said:

What really sucks is despite our alleged “advantages “ we are runner-up/bitch/ also ran in this conference some think is weak and shit and pathetic,....so what does that make us?

Yeah, I chuckle when people shit on the Big 12 and talk about how we should leave it. We can't even master this conference since 2010 and have been passed by in multiple years by two private schools, OU's bitch, and even lost and almost lost to Kansas. I mean I guess we can go to the Pac 12 and beat Colorado again. Or take on the Arizonas and Utahs of the world. Not sure our odds fair better there. 

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

Seems like there is a lot of truth in what you say.

It looks like we are the Dallas Cowboys of college football.

Its Grand Illusion......

[Guest Lobo]

Oklahoma has owned us in every conceivable metric since we both joined the same league and started chasing the same hardware and bowl spots 23 years ago.  

10-15 head-to-head.  Yeah, I know we command the all-time lead, but 5 games under .500 is a serious gulch.  

12 conference championships to 3.  12 to 3.  Think about that.  

And almost every single year, a markedly higher bowl game bid than we got.  

Nevermind several games better overall in terms of winning percentage.  

It started with Mack Brown and the culture has continued.  It's just another game to our coaches and conference championships don't matter to this school anymore just "winning with class" and possible Alamo Bowl bids.  

[El Squared 1793]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yeah, I chuckle when people shit on the Big 12 and talk about how we should leave it. We can't even master this conference since 2010 and have been passed by in multiple years by two private schools, OU's bitch, and even lost and almost lost to Kansas. I mean I guess we can go to the Pac 12 and beat Colorado again. Or take on the Arizonas and Utahs of the world. Not sure our odds fair better there. 

Don't forget we are likely weaker than SMU,  that took our cast off QB and found a way to win. ...with a coach that got fired by Cal, but managed to beat us.

Edited October 28, 2019 by El Squared

[Thetexashammer 1062]

I'm hopeful there will be an announcement tomorrow.

[mdmost 42865]

If it didn't happen today, it's not happening tomorrow. I mean, "we've got a bye week to figure things out and retrench, you don't push the panic button at 5-3, we're better than our record indicates, we're preparing to go 1-0 against Kansas State". Blah, blah, blah.  

Edited October 28, 2019 by mdmost

[hookem48 4631]

1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'm hopeful there will be an announcement tomorrow.

no  conference call will probably be the announcement

[Guest Lobo]

Announcement will be "We're gonna fix it", "We will focus on fundamentals", or "We've gotta heal up this week and go beat Kansas State or else TCU beats us twice." 

The jokes write themselves if you're a reporter, 

"Coach Herman, you're being awfully defensive for a guy who doesn't believe in defense."  

[El Squared 1793]

4 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'm hopeful there will be an announcement tomorrow.

The only announcements tomorrow will be injury and excuse updates.....don't expect more.

He has an extension, he is getting paid guaranteed dollars. Why would he change , what incentive is there to change unless there is language in the extension about performance? Pay for performance is unheard of in this realm.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by El Squared

[mdmost 42865]

You know I do the bit with Charlie Speak before each press conference but I'll be damned if I didn't hit the nail on the head. We've got Charlie 2.0, he's just not as nice a guy, more of an asshole, and more full of himself. And he has a QB that bailed his ass out on numerous occasions. Sure we're not getting blown out but we're not progressing either. 

[Thetexashammer 1062]

Just now, El Squared said:

The only announcements tomorrow will be injury and excuse updates.....don't expect more.

Didn't say I expected it. I said I was hopeful. It takes time to write up press releases and get people into the office on Sunday.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

1 hour ago, bullet said:

Surly horns seems to be a good description.

I just don't understand why so many of you were so happy with Charlie Strong when he had a losing record.  Herman got Texas back into the top 10 for the first time in 10 years and does have a winning record this year and you are already trying to fire him.

Sure, lots of room for improvement this year, but DKR had 3 straight 6-4 seasons before having the greatest Texas run of all time.

I'm not saying Herman is a DKR, but he's sure not anywhere near as bad as Shaggy's fave Charlie Strong.

It would be different IF the MASH unit defense  was the ONLY reason we are a shit show.   But you have too much lack of basic football fundamentals on both sides of ball on top of questionable play calling to pass it all off on the injury excuse.   The back ups and even the starters at times look like they were picked out of the stands and given pads because they lack basic tackling techniques,etc.

The fact that Third and Orlando fails to adjust the defense to accommodate the army he has is telling that Tom is stubborn dick who will be that way until he’s fired and then become someone else’s  stubborn dick.   Same goes with the offense with not running the fucking ball on third and short and going to a low percentage pass instead.Sam not being benched for playing like shit yesterday in the second half, and offensive line suddenly forgetting how to pick up a blitz.     I mean the list of crap can go on and on.  

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

2 hours ago, Treefidy said:

True, we should have fired him a week before he "stepped down"

You guys really are some savage MF’s.  Guy is literally killing himself recruiting and you fire him, full stop. 
 

 

 

 

 

narrator:  he’s still alive

[dcar00 14035]

8 minutes ago, El Squared said:

The only announcements tomorrow will be injury and excuse updates.....don't expect more.

He has an extension, he is getting paid guaranteed dollars. Why would he change , what incentive is there to change unless there is language in the extension about performance? Pay for performance is unheard of in this realm.

 

 

 

there is no PC tomorrow.  bye week

[ztejas 43266]

9 minutes ago, mdmost said:

And he has a QB that bailed his ass out on numerous occasions.

He sure as shit didn't bail us out yesterday. 

[mdmost 42865]

Just now, ztejas said:

He sure as shit didn't bail us out yesterday. 

Correct and what exactly happened because he didn't when he did a lot last season?

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

Just now, ChiTownDoc said:

You guys really are some savage MF’s.  Guy is literally killing himself recruiting and you fire him, full stop. 
 

 

 

 

 

narrator:  he’s still alive

Mack Brown had some good classes during the later days of his tenure.  Just sayin.  

And you might want to check up on the list of decommits.  Kind of went up since the almost loss to KU.   

[ztejas 43266]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Correct and what exactly happened because he didn't when he did a lot last season?

Winning in spite of 4 picks from our quarterback is not a luxury we have with our current roster on defense. There are very few teams that have that luxury. 

I guess you can blame part of it on the play-calling but Sam was not good yesterday. He contributed as much to the loss as anyone else did, and I can't with a straight face blame it on the coaching when he came into the game with just 3 picks all year. 

If our D coord. isn't a waste of salary and we have a remotely healthy secondary and Sam plays well we win that game by 20 points. 

[nunna yo bizness 1687]

4 hours ago, hookem48 said:

as far as OU it's the offensive line, every fucking year they have a good to great one. I'll post this again, they had 4 olineman drafted in the top 4 rounds last year, that's never happened before, their center was a freshman all-American, they replaced the four drafted with four more that will be drafted. we've had 1 drafted in 12 years. Last year we got a grad transfer from Rice, this year one from a triple option offense. We suck at oline and have for a decade. It's a damn wonder we won 10 games last year. 

Even that comes back to the OU philosophy of cheating at everything you do.  How long has it been a widely discussed topic of how OU's oline holds on every play.  2 decades..  They do it because they know the refs aren't going to throw a flag every play, so just keep holding and overall you gain more than you lose from it.  At Texas we try to avoid holding so we don't get penalized and basically play with one hand tied behind our back compared to what OU does when we play them.  They cheat at oline play and we don't.

And I'm not saying there hasn't been a talent differential, but there's still a portion of it that comes back to OU cheats and we think we're above doing that.

Edited October 28, 2019 by nunna yo bizness

[hookem48 4631]

10 minutes ago, nunna yo bizness said:

Even that comes back to the OU philosophy of cheating at everything you do.  How long has it been a widely discussed topic of how OU's oline holds on every play.  2 decades..  They do it because they know the refs aren't going to throw a flag every play, so just keep holding and overall you gain more than you lose from it.  At Texas we try to avoid holding so we don't get penalized and basically play with one hand tied behind our back compared to what OU does when we play them.  They cheat at oline play and we don't.

And I'm not saying there hasn't been a talent differential, but there's still a portion of it that comes back to OU cheats and we think we're above doing that.

2 decades of holding every play and we're too stupid to do the same thing? We don't deserve to win like they do then. 

Obviously NFL teams think they do more than hold.

[LTtxfan 48980]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

there is no PC tomorrow.  bye week

B12 Coaches Conference Call will still have Herman participating tomorrow...

[markstanco 12509]

I'm on board with OPs thread title if he doesnt clean house this december. May make a 2nd week bowl game in december, maybe not. I hope CDC puts his foot down on this.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

5 hours ago, mdmost said:

No, it's because we don't cheat and because OU got caught 15 years ago with Big Red Motors and they had that one time they let Joe Mixon "redshirt". That's the reason OU has won the Big 12 12 times. Has nothing to do with coaching or getting more out of their talent. 

Ou winning 12 big 12 titles has nothing to do with coaching or getting more out of their talent lol? If you want to say they’ve cheated in recruiting, fine. But how does any of that help them dominate us on the actual football field. I’ll tell you how. It’s because they’ve had better coaching than us over the history of Th big 12 and because they’ve gotten more out of their talent over the history of the big 12. I mean, fuck OU and all that shit, but c’mon man lol. Mack wasn’t as good as stoops. Strong and Herman aren’t as good as Riley. They’ve taken lesser recruiting classes (at least according to the sites) and done more with it. 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

The point is that the willingness to do what it takes, including bend or break the rules, is essential to winning at the highest level.

The actual bending or breaking of rules is not the essential part, it's the willingness and all that entails.

Apart from that, it's been mentioned that the DFW alums supported Strong still, while the Houston alums insisted on Herman.

Until the DFW and Houston (and Austin and Midland and NYC and fucking Bugtussle and CutNShoot) alums get on the same page with each other and with the AD and other elements of the administration, and hire some professional consultants (retired or current coaches, sports psychologists, etc. etc.) we are doomed.

Our HFC hiring process has been a complete clownshitshow since Mike Campbell was passed over for Akers.

Edited October 28, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Joker 11]

8 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Ou winning 12 big 12 titles has nothing to do with coaching or getting more out of their talent lol? If you want to say they’ve cheated in recruiting, fine. But how does any of that help them dominate us on the actual football field. I’ll tell you how. It’s because they’ve had better coaching than us over the history of Th big 12 and because they’ve gotten more out of their talent over the history of the big 12. I mean, fuck OU and all that shit, but c’mon man lol. Mack wasn’t as good as stoops. Strong and Herman aren’t as good as Riley. They’ve taken lesser recruiting classes (at least according to the sites) and done more with it. 

Lol at all the idiots in here saying ou cheats? They cheat in recruiting??? Yet somehow Texas has the better recruiting classes every year. Please one of you Mensa dumbasses explain that one. “Their linemen always hold”. It’s like a bunch of children throwing a temper tantrum. 

[Gravy Train 974]

It's Sunday night and Kevin Sumlin just fired his former DC (Yates) and LB coach (Rushing), who followed him over to UA from aggy.  

You hear that, Tom?  It's just business, and if you intend to share your opportunity with your friends, you are held accountable for their performance.

Pick up the phone.

[El Squared 1793]

8 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

It's Sunday night and Kevin Sumlin just fired his former DC (Yates) and LB coach (Rushing), who followed him over to UA from aggy.  

You hear that, Tom?  It's just business, and if you intend to share your opportunity with your friends, you are held accountable for their performance.

Pick up the phone.

It what people do all the time if their primary loyalty is to their contract and the product they are supposed to produce.

[mdmost 42865]

55 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Ou winning 12 big 12 titles has nothing to do with coaching or getting more out of their talent lol? If you want to say they’ve cheated in recruiting, fine. But how does any of that help them dominate us on the actual football field. I’ll tell you how. It’s because they’ve had better coaching than us over the history of Th big 12 and because they’ve gotten more out of their talent over the history of the big 12. I mean, fuck OU and all that shit, but c’mon man lol. Mack wasn’t as good as stoops. Strong and Herman aren’t as good as Riley. They’ve taken lesser recruiting classes (at least according to the sites) and done more with it. 

I was making a joke based on previous posters who said OU was better than Texas because they cheat, you fucking idiot. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

9 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I was making a joke based on previous posters who said OU was better than Texas because they cheat, you fucking idiot. 

Touché. Didn’t read the whole thread, and saw your comment as more of a one off. You really hurt my feelings though, man. Just because I’m an idiot doesn’t mean you have to drive the point home in front of everyone lol. 

[dcar00 14035]

Im ready to move on because I really thought by year 3 we'd be ready to quit getting beat by the Maryland's, TCU's, Kansas's, Baylor's of the world.  apparently I was wrong.  it is obvious they have better coaches than we do at this point.

it seemed like we had taken the next step and then we found out how bad G5 orlando really is.

year 3 is when things should start clicking big time if you are going to start challenging for an NC in the near future.  not only are we not close we are going backwards.