Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[Newy25 7,668]

If we cannot fire Herman after this year because of money, we are truly fucked for years. Next year’s roster is a rebuild project and it’s going to get ugly. 

[westexhorn 2,017]

39 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

If we cannot fire Herman after this year because of money, we are truly fucked for years. Next year’s roster is a rebuild project and it’s going to get ugly. 

Sounds like we were fucked the moment CDC gave him the extension.

[taybo20 2,825]

Herman peaked at 10-3 and using Sam 4 times from the goal line to score against uga. 

[Rockethorn1978 6,077]

52 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

If we cannot fire Herman after this year because of money, we are truly fucked for years. Next year’s roster is a rebuild project and it’s going to get ugly. 

My fantasy is we roll out Thompson as the mature backup(chance mock) then we realize JQJ is a beast and have him starting by ou and end up winning 10 games.

Outside of QB where else is it rebuild? seems like all the other positions aren't a full turnover like QB.

[tx ind 7,012]

this pretty much sums it up

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by tx ind

[CBHorn 420]

Every time I see a job listing that looks good, but I don't quite meeting the requirements for, I think of Tom and go ahead and apply. If he can get paid millions for faking it, we all can. Of course, once I get a job, I work my ass off proving I can do the work and help out anywhere I can. Can't just pat yourself on the back thinking the starting line is the same as the finish line.

[EastTexan 662]

10 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Herman will be in full CYA mode at the Monday presser. He’ll say all the right things to cool down the decision makers. Belmont will lean on their flunkies to sunshine pump. “Well last week doesn’t matter if Texas beats OU.” Wash, repeat. 
 

Herman is that f*** up at work that keeps getting promoted because he knows how to talk his way out of everything. 

I don't know man. That shakey ass voice doesn't impress me. Maybe it does CDC.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

42 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

Every time I see a job listing that looks good, but I don't quite meeting the requirements for, I think of Tom and go ahead and apply. If he can get paid millions for faking it, we all can. Of course, once I get a job, I work my ass off proving I can do the work and help out anywhere I can. Can't just pat yourself on the back thinking the starting line is the same as the finish line.

Just make sure you’re looking down on anyone that tries to be critical of your job performance...the job you aren’t qualified for. 

[Captain Ron 12,876]

8 hours ago, Topper13 said:

Bigfoot might be real. Just sayin'. 

Real or fake, either would be an upgrade from Herman. 

[ClubWhatever 12,135]

2 hours ago, Newy25 said:

If we cannot fire Herman after this year because of money, we are truly fucked for years. Next year’s roster is a rebuild project and it’s going to get ugly. 

It’s already ugly.  We can’t tackle, can’t cover, and can’t line back on defense.  On offense we don’t understand situational football and generally shoot ourselves in the foot on more than half of our drives.  We’re a middle of the pack big 12 team and will continue to be.  

[utexas8 1,436]

What other programs might come open that urban would be interested in this year? Maybe he will be around a year from now?

USC but their higher ups seem worse than Texas so we may be good.

Auburn, but I don’t see him going there.

[Captain Ron 12,876]

17 hours ago, Js1 said:

He’s quitting?

 

How many times have we heard this during the Herman tenure?

[CosmoDog 306]

8 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

Of course. You must choose between fixing football and basketball.   Fix football first.  Our bmds should have 15 million laying around.  Assuming vaccine is in place, cdc could take care of football in spring.  But then basketball coach would probably finish his contract.  No big deal.  New arena will sell out first year or two.  The question/problem for cdc is how clear is it herm is not the guy.  Herm needs to lose at least 4 games imo to make it crystal clear.  Very possible. 

Oh, we’re losing at least four with this shit show.

[CosmoDog 306]

1 hour ago, CBHorn said:

Every time I see a job listing that looks good, but I don't quite meeting the requirements for, I think of Tom and go ahead and apply. If he can get paid millions for faking it, we all can. Of course, once I get a job, I work my ass off proving I can do the work and help out anywhere I can. Can't just pat yourself on the back thinking the starting line is the same as the finish line.

So you’re saying that Herman is inspirational in an unconventional fashion?

He’s already inspiring me to not renew my season tickets.

Edited October 4, 2020 by CosmoDog

[Nicole44 22,059]

"How do you evaluate the roster of a college program, especially a blue-blood program like Texas? It's called the NFL Draft," said Meyer, the former Ohio State head coach (2012-18), whom Herman worked for as an offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach (2012-14). "When you see this graphic here, it just takes your breath away that first-round picks — they have top-10 recruiting classes every year. However, it doesn't show up in the NFL Draft.

"So this is the what. You look at a school like Alabama, Ohio State — top-10 classes, but they have 32 first-round draft picks and Ohio State, 18, respectively. Now, Texas with three. So that's the what.  

"Let's talk about the why. Here is the why. There's two reasons — No. 1, evaluation. You have to really, thoroughly go back and say, 'Are we evaluating the right way in our program?' But here's where I want to spend a second talking about, development. Once they get on your campus, you have to develop them. And when I say development, it's weight room, it's training room, it's nutritionists — it might even be a sports psychologist — and then, of course, it's going to be the assistant coaches.

"So the what is yeah, they haven't had many players drafted. That's fine. The average viewer can say, 'OK, that's the what.' But let's dig deep, lift up the hood and say why — it's evaluation process and it's development of the player. If the NFL Draft doesn't start showing more Texas Longhorn players every spring, it's going to be the same old story."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Texas-Longhorns-football-recruiting-evaluation-development-Tom-Herman-coach-Urban-Meyer-take-152341357/Amp/

—————————————————————

so I have been saying this for years. The NFL draft matters. Whether you like the NFL or not. The draft is the barometer for how we have been developing players. The graph Meyer was referring to showed Texas (over the last 15 years had only ONE draft class not ranked in the top ten. That was a slacking year for Mack and the class was in the top 20. Only one class outside the top ten.) OU isn’t even close. Not even some classes ranked in the top twenty. Over the past two decades. 

And like it or not, players aren’t coming solely to UT just for the honor of it and ambiance of Austin. Most of those guys would like a crack at the NFL. It’s not possible for most and we know that. But the draft matters. Look at OU (has not had a draft class in the top ten in the last decade), Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc...they consistently churn out and develop their talent. And it shows in their wins and the draft. 

sure it’s true some of the programs get more 5 stars than Texas but honestly why do y’all think that is? We haven’t had poor drafting. It’s poor development of players and it matters. It makes a difference. 

you don’t have to like Meyer. You just have to know that he, Dabo, Saban etc understand that the draft is important. It is. Whether people want it to be or not. If we want to succeed as a program we have to understand it is. Jmo. This isn’t the old days of no NFL. A bunch of guys just thrilled to be on the field. 

[westexhorn 2,017]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

"How do you evaluate the roster of a college program, especially a blue-blood program like Texas? It's called the NFL Draft," said Meyer, the former Ohio State head coach (2012-18), whom Herman worked for as an offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach (2012-14). "When you see this graphic here, it just takes your breath away that first-round picks — they have top-10 recruiting classes every year. However, it doesn't show up in the NFL Draft.

"So this is the what. You look at a school like Alabama, Ohio State — top-10 classes, but they have 32 first-round draft picks and Ohio State, 18, respectively. Now, Texas with three. So that's the what.  

"Let's talk about the why. Here is the why. There's two reasons — No. 1, evaluation. You have to really, thoroughly go back and say, 'Are we evaluating the right way in our program?' But here's where I want to spend a second talking about, development. Once they get on your campus, you have to develop them. And when I say development, it's weight room, it's training room, it's nutritionists — it might even be a sports psychologist — and then, of course, it's going to be the assistant coaches.

"So the what is yeah, they haven't had many players drafted. That's fine. The average viewer can say, 'OK, that's the what.' But let's dig deep, lift up the hood and say why — it's evaluation process and it's development of the player. If the NFL Draft doesn't start showing more Texas Longhorn players every spring, it's going to be the same old story."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Texas-Longhorns-football-recruiting-evaluation-development-Tom-Herman-coach-Urban-Meyer-take-152341357/Amp/

—————————————————————

so I have been saying this for years. The NFL draft matters. Whether you like the NFL or not. The draft is the barometer for how we have been developing players. The graph Meyer was referring to showed Texas (over the last 15 years had only ONE draft class not ranked in the top ten. That was a slacking year for Mack and the class was in the top 20. Only one class outside the top ten.) OU isn’t even close. Not even some classes ranked in the top twenty. Over the past two decades. 

And like it or not, players aren’t coming solely to UT just for the honor of it and ambiance of Austin. Most of those guys would like a crack at the NFL. It’s not possible for most and we know that. But the draft matters. Look at OU (has not had a draft class in the top ten in the last decade), Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, etc...they consistently churn out and develop their talent. And it shows in their wins and the draft. 

sure it’s true some of the programs get more 5 stars than Texas but honestly why do y’all think that is? We haven’t had poor drafting. It’s poor development of players and it matters. It makes a difference. 

you don’t have to like Meyer. You just have to know that he, Dabo, Saban etc understand that the draft is important. It is. Whether people want it to be or not. If we want to succeed as a program we have to understand it is. Jmo. This isn’t the old days of no NFL. A bunch of guys just thrilled to be on the field. 

Herman might be a good coordinator but after 3 years, it is evident he isn't a fundamentals guy.  Can't develop.

 

[Bullneck 19,082]

7 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Want a good laugh?

Archie won a second Heisman. That Christmas my older brother got a 45 jersey like Archie's, I got a 44 jersey like his younger brother Ray's. I was fine with that. Then the Bucks lost to double digit underdog UCLA in the Rose Bowl. 

It still sort of hurts. 

Filmed before a live studio audience.

At around the 12 minute mark the players from Ohio State look like the Ohio Players.  Hell, maybe they were.

I roomed with a Bruin from that Rose Bowl game when I lived in L.A.

[Ignatius 4,017]

8 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

How many times have you been surprised when we lost to an unranked team? It's maddening, but has it really been surprising?

The first Maryland game was truly surprising to me; none since then...

[BornOrange1955 77]

Tom Herman talks the talk. And that's it. No walking the walk. All hat and no cattle. The perfect Mack Brown apostle.

If we don't look at the Saban or Swinney coaching tree for the next coach, we're just flat out stupid.

Yes, I know Urban Meyer is out there. I'm not sure he wants to coach. I hate him as a person. But this third rate football team we produce every year has gotten old. So maybe I'll swallow my integrity and get on the Meyer bandwagon.

You know what, it's not just old. It's boring.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by BornOrange1955

[Bullneck 19,082]

7 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

ketch:

 

 

Thanks for posting.  (But I wish Ketch had spend a few minutes proofreading and editing. People pay $9.95 for that?)

[David Dennison 18,856]

11 minutes ago, westexhorn said:

Herman might be a good coordinator but after 3 years, it is evident he isn't a fundamentals guy.  Can't develop.

 

The amount of players who come to Texas and do not get better at playing football is staggering.

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

The cheapest option would be Hiring Urban so long as he retained much of this staff which is much of his former staff.  But even then with Herm’s buyout, Urb’s new contract and some staff turnover you’re talking probably $30M+. So it’s a BMD led buyout or nothing, because the AD is likely tapped out.

[PilotsError 2,287]

Coordinator and head coach are two completely different skill sets. The next revolution in sports is changing how, and who, teams hire to be head coaches. Invest heavily in the best coordinators and let them coordinate, hire some PhD logician to handle the game day calls and decisions in the moment.

[PilotsError 2,287]

The cheapest option would be Hiring Urban so long as he retained much of this staff which is much of his former staff.  But even then with Herm’s buyout, Urb’s new contract and some staff turnover you’re talking probably $30M+. So it’s a BMD led buyout or nothing, because the AD is likely tapped out.

Ketch said it would be about fifty million.

[mdmost 43,001]

Unless I'm mistaken, aren't those Houston BMDs the  same group that pushed for Herman over even entertaining a coaching search. The bottom line is we won't have the money to fire Herman. We won't have the money to hire Urban. We're stuck with the choices we made that aren't not paying off. It was the risk we took after Charlie. You roll the dice on the next guy and hope he pays off. He hasn't. Not yet at least. We still have a chance to right the ship and win the conference but I haven't seen anything after Tech and TCU to show me that's possible. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,931]

Checking in to say FUCK TOM HERMAN

[A’Dam Psycho 1,470]

If we were to go after another “project” coach, Venables is the only one I’d feel decent about. Other than that, we need a proven experienced winner. Urban Meyer, Chris Petersen, Kyle Whittingham, etc. Somebody who at the very least will skullfuck bad teams. I’ll take Jim Harbaugh if Meatchicken boots him

[jdhorn92 1,545]

Of all the fucked up shit in that game yesterday, it all came down to a play to win it. Everyone knows RO is our tough runner , when you need a yard he’s our guy. Ingram was gassed. How he didn’t sub RO in is crazy. 
 

fuck him. That’s a huge mistake . 

[TotallyLegit 3,053]

The only reason I understand not subbing is to prevent TCU from subbing as well, but we still could have just sat over the ball instead of going hurry up.

[BevoSwag 272]

Trying to think of something positive this morning.  But for a fumble at the 1 we'd be undefeated.  OU is as bad as us on D.  We can win that game.  KSU, ISU and OSU are the big question marks.  TCU already has a conference loss and they won't go the remainder of the season undefeated.  

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,652]

8 hours ago, Farmer Vincent said:

Tom Herman is not worried about getting fired. He knows it is a certainty at this point. It's just a matter of if it's this year or next. So when you see him on the sidelines and you could swear you care more about us losing than he does….it’s because it’s true. He is thinking about this just the way you or I would. He is making 5 Million dollars a year. Just ride it out as long as possible. Then move on to the next stop. Five years from now Texas will be no part of his universe. He thinks the fans are pathetic morons. Fuck Them. I am rich. My family is set for life. He is even getting some sick pleasure from inflicting pain on the fanbase. If you want to say that is BS then watch the game again and look at his smug ass on the sidelines. He pulled off a hell of a con. He only had to do it once. Congratulations Tom, you piece of shit. I can only hope Karma slaps your ass. In the mean time, can we move on to Urban?

Lol. Some of y’all need to relax some 

[Nueces River Rat 5,538]

11 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

If we were to go after another “project” coach, Venables is the only one I’d feel decent about. Other than that, we need a proven experienced winner. Urban Meyer, Chris Petersen, Kyle Whittingham, etc. Somebody who at the very least will skullfuck bad teams. I’ll take Jim Harbaugh if Meatchicken boots him

Agreed.  No more project coaches or ESPN recommendations from their fanboys like Herbie.  Don’t know about Harbaugh....
 

Would PJ Fleck fit this description?. 

[Nicole44 22,059]

21 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The amount of players who come to Texas and do not get better at playing football is staggering.

Especially, when you consider how highly ranked our drafts have been the last decade plus. It’s like Herman pulls in a great draft and pats himself on the back and expects to out talent the other team with his Mensa folder and our three and four stars. The reason I liked Fleck is because he develops the shit out of his two and three stars. And those highly developed two and three stars are worth a lot more than a four or five star we don’t develop. It’s the reason I am high on Luke Fickell. Dude is developing players and has proven the HC position is not too big for him. I’m not saying hire him. I’m saying have a real coaching search and interview him. 
there is a big difference between a project coach and real up and comer. There is a difference between a proven winner and a proven bullshitter. We will continue to miss out on the right coaches because we don’t open up the hood and look inside. We just see the car and buy it. We don’t drive the car. We panicked because we thought we would lose Herman to LSU (some serious work on his agents part) and we bought that car. Like we are some desperate program that’s about to lose it all. That was very telling how the Herman hire went down. We didn’t say “Hold up. We are still one of the top programs in the country. We won a MNC in the last decade and went to a second one. We aren’t going to be quick about this coaching search. We are going to be deliberate and we are going to do it right.” But no, we got outfoxed. And panicked.

our player development is the key to success and it’s beyond embarrassing to see it live on the field Saturdays.

every loss to an unranked opponent on this board we hear about “how did those two and three stars beat us?” Because in most, not all cases, they are being developed. 
 

Have a real coaching search. Look at everyone. The BMDs know about as much about what it takes to win as Jerry Jones has shown the last 25 years.

we can always get a top ten draft. But the coach is the key and we have failed twice in a row. It sucks. 

[jdhorn92 1,545]

16 minutes ago, TotallyLegit said:

The only reason I understand not subbing is to prevent TCU from subbing as well, but we still could have just sat over the ball instead of going hurry up.

I get that. But he just ran 68 yards on back to back plays. You could tell by his body language, he was so gassed. Herman did that a ton with Sam vs @USC a few years ago, vs UGA, LSU and vs Ou. It’s a bad tendency that has not worked. He need to trust his roster 

Edited October 4, 2020 by jdhorn92

[SilasCoade 2,622]

22 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

Of all the fucked up shit in that game yesterday, it all came down to a play to win it. Everyone knows RO is our tough runner , when you need a yard he’s our guy. Ingram was gassed. How he didn’t sub RO in is crazy. 
 

fuck him. That’s a huge mistake . 

Roschon was nursing a shoulder injury at the time, per the announcers.

[Covri 6,249]

Why not just use Ingram as a decoy on that hurry up play to give him a rest while asked making the D think we’re going right back to him? Don’t get giving it to him again after those last two plays, he’s got be winded at that point. 

[El Squared 1,802]

Whether or not you like Urban isn’t the issue. He has won big in three different conferences, and did it relatively quickly. He knows how to hire coordinators and recruit.

Maybe he wants to coach ,maybe not. These guys all have egos, and he could make his history winning a NC at three different stops in three different conferences. To some, that would put him on the same plane as Saban.

The money for removing the old regime and installing a new one is always the obstacle, it’s going to cost a lot now matter who we hire  however. We are already evolving into Cal Berkeley in many ways, perhaps that’s what UT Administration wants for our sports programs too. Sure seems like it. 

With each passing year we are more and more of a joke that seems not to be able to get their shit together ( or simply doesn’t really want to) ....in order to be a serious contender in the major sports.

It’s  PATHETIC when you see the resources , advantages, and potential.

[Chad 1,728]

"Big Game Tom"......said nobody ever.

[GreenspointTexas 9,600]

We miss on our next coach, and we legit drop from the blue bloods of college football. We are already a punchline.

 

The bigger issue is being irrelevant. Especially considering our money, prestige, location, city, and history. 
 

If herman loses 5 games this season, hes fucking toast... covid or not

[Red Five 40,854]

Just now, Chad said:

"Big Game Tom"......said nobody ever.

That graphic isn't showing "big games". And he's actually decent in those. 

[mdmost 43,001]

Yeah, beating opponents he should lose to isn't the issue. Georgia, Utah, OU in 2018. Goes back to Houston when he was beating ranked opponents and then losing to Navy, SMU, and Memphis. Beating #3 Louisville was what sold most of us on rolling the dice with him. Then he went out and lost to Memphis the week after but the die was cast. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by mdmost

[BrazilHorn 6,591]

As much as I’d love to see Herman gone unfortunately with CV19 and drop in revenues at state level unless some BMDs really want to money whip I think he is safe. 
 

Just sucks as this program is going nowhere. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1,994]

49 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

Ketch said it would be about fifty million.

Ketch assumes complete staff turnover. I’m assuming just Herman and a few of his less impressive staff members.  Urban has already hired both of our coordinators at OSU, and would conceivably keep a few others.

Either way it’s a shit ton of money that likely isn’t getting donated by anyone anytime soon short of Urban announcing on tv that he wants and will take the job, and CDC donning some deal with it sunglasses for the high and mighty portion of the school that thinks Texas is above all of Urb’s baggage.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Bobby_Batronic

[Red Five 40,854]

There was talk back in 2013 that Dabo was interested, but that's back when Clemsoning was a thing so no one gave a shit if he was interested. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,652]

11 minutes ago, Chad said:

"Big Game Tom"......said nobody ever.

As others have said.  That stat doesn’t have anything to do with big games.   Big games are the one thing going for Tom 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2,652]

Just now, Red Five said:

There was talk back in 2013 that Dabo was interested, but that's back when Clemsoning was a thing so no one gave a shit if he was interested. 

And a LOT of Clemson fans wanted him gone back then. 

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,236]

5 minutes ago, Xian said:

As others have said.  That stat doesn’t have anything to do with big games.   Big games are the one thing going for Tom 

Yeah he killed it in the Big 12 Championship and the game against LSU, oh, dont forget how good we looked against OU in 2019. GTFO with big game Tom. He won one big game, against Georgia. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by The_Great_Hornsby

[Bullneck 19,082]

56 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

If we were to go after another “project” coach, Venables is the only one I’d feel decent about. Other than that, we need a proven experienced winner. Urban Meyer, Chris Petersen, Kyle Whittingham, etc. Somebody who at the very least will skullfuck bad teams. I’ll take Jim Harbaugh if Meatchicken boots him

justin Fuente?

[David Dennison 18,856]

If we lose to OU next weekend, things might snowball and we could be looking at losses to K-State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State.

That will get Tom fired.

Win?

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

19 hours ago, Js1 said:

This guy?

16 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm angry about the game and it's place as part of the trend in Herman coached games. Inconsistent play, needlessly close games with lesser opponents, and getting ahead and starting to run the clock out way too early and not far enough ahead.

The question I have is who should we have hired instead of Herman who looked like a good bet at the time? Did those of you who hated the hire have a better option in mind? Those are serious, unprejudiced questions. Strong had to go; then who? 

It will probably be another thread, but who would your recommend other than Urban? We may not get him, anyway.

Jeff Traylor

Got the Roadrunners at 3-1 and gave conference power UAB a game in Birmingham yesterday. Traylor has been my guy since Charlie had to go but I've been told over and over again we just don't hire HS coaches....Even though his resume wasn't too incredibly different from DKR's back in 2016, save a short stint as HC at an irrelevant PAC school. 

Also I get a sense some of y'all think he's a little too bass boat and Oakley shades or something. Not a country club type like Mack or a hip young city slicker who can talk to da kidz about teh rap and such. 

What he is is a legend in our most fertile recruiting ground and he is now proving he can run a mid-major...But now just mentioning a mid-major is the kiss of death for most of y'all. 

Anyway, big game against a stout BYU squad this week. I bet UTSA covers. 

16 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

UT administration is rotten to the core. 

This is the real problem. Actually I'd blame their bosses, our BMDs. Or BMDs suck and appear to be torn into factions. I don't know much about that world but I doubt Bama has Mobile and Birmingham factions stabbing each other in the back, or the same with the Gooners and rival gangs from Tulsa and OKC.