Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[closetohumping 17401]

6 minutes ago, ruitxn said:

I will agree an Urban hire makes sense to clean this mess up.  There is a red flag that shouldn’t be dismissed.  The Coach Saban of today is not the Saban of ten years ago who built the Bama era.  The Coach Urban of today will not be the same Urban of ten years ago.

Saban of today is still the coach of the #2 team in the country.  

[Surly Bevo 24696]

Sooo I think what you are trying to say is that Mack has moved on and so should we?  Maybe one more time for good measure

[David Dennison 18658]

6 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

I am not a huge fan of the way Mack left Texas. But, I dont think he even thinks about it. Less stressful job that he has done an amazing job turning around in a short amount of time. I bet his focus is on NC and making it better and hopefully learned from the lesson to get out when he should.  

He aint looking back , he's looking forward. Texas should start doing the same 

Those last two sentences were tough to type, probably because they are so true 

In my head, Mack Brown is a spiteful man who loves watching Texas struggle.

I'm probably wrong, but fuck him for leaving us this mess.

[nineliveslost 2710]

I feel your pain man

 

[ShowMeALoss 143]

Every time the current coach sucks, some people like to bring up the previous coach and make excuses for why we shouldn't have fired them. Texas is not one of those schools that's quick to pull the trigger. We usually like to drag it on until it becomes a cesspool and the new coach has to work extra hard to change the culture. We should have fired Mack Brown, Charlie Strong, and Rick Barnes at least 2-3 years before they actually were. Not firing them in a timely fashion set our two major revenue sports back by years, if not decades.

[FloridaHorn 4735]

6 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

 

 

6 minutes ago, nineliveslost said:

 

 

...

You don’t say?

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

Leaving is this mess? How long are we gonna blame shit that happened 7 plus years ago lol 

[Mikey4 2476]

Saban of today is still the coach of the #2 team in the country.  

Also, perception and credibility are critically important at this point. For players and recruits, we cannot be seen as taking a risk with an unproven hire. We need someone who will instantly bring credibility to the program and will be able to pull everything together from day one. Urban is that guy.

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, Sgt Hulk said:

Leaving is this mess? How long are we gonna blame shit that happened 7 plus years ago lol 

Until it gets fixed.

[austintiger 111]

Tom beats Baylor, football season is cancelled due to covid outbreak, tom stays because the team is "moving in the right direction", tom loses again to OU next year but you have a new qb who "just needs time", yada yada. you guys are stuck with this loser for at least 2 more years because I honestly think the AD doesn't care all that much about winning as long as the $$$ is still coming in.

[Paul Wesley 3277]

Lately I’ve thought about the “great recruiter but he can’t coach” label that Mack had to endure from ‘98-2005.   But it was bullshit.  Mack almost never lost to the TCU, Kansas, and Baylors of the world.  Those were all an automatic “W.”

Mack’s big flaw - pre-Vince - was predictable offense and ultra conservative play calling, especially in big games.  
 

Hell, in Mack’s last 5 years, coming off a title game in ‘09, he gets an F for identifying and signing offensive talent.  I mean, sleepy Mike Sherman loaded up on NFL linemen and skill players while Mack was bringing in QBs and O linemen who couldn’t start at any school in the Big 12.

Herman, on the other hand... that guy is a great recruiter and a terrible coach. 

[WhatTheBuck 28712]

5 minutes ago, Xian said:

One positive is that urban has showed the ability to mold his O to fit current players. 

Not when he gave Cardale Jones the start in 2015, he didn't. He should've tailored it to Cardale's strengths and focused on winning Zeke a Heisman. Instead he stuck with the JT Barrett offense and kept sticking Braxton Miller, who he was supposed to be turning into a WR, in at wildcat, breaking up Cardale's rhythm and stealing carries from Zeke. What made it worse was that, because of his injury, everyone knew Braxton couldn't throw the ball. 

[RGBIII 22798]

2 minutes ago, austintiger said:

Tom beats Baylor, football season is cancelled due to covid outbreak, tom stays because the team is "moving in the right direction", tom loses again to OU next year but you have a new qb who "just needs time", yada yada. you guys are stuck with this loser for at least 2 more years because I honestly think the AD doesn't care all that much about winning as long as the $$$ is still coming in.

...it isn't

[TexasRenegade 2391]

For the conversations on wins and losses.....I don't truly think it matters.  Maybe I am wrong....but I think Tom is gone period.  I think the powers that be are fed up with him and his act.  I think the players have largely tuned him out.  So even if the team somehow manages to finish with a winning record of some sort.  It will be through games like TCU and OU and Tech, which lets all be honest, no one would consider to be playing good football.

 

I think if the team was playing well and somehow we were getting "snakebit" kind of losses...it would be another matter.  But I think the ugly ugly football and the incoming bad news in recruiting are going to see Tom out the door as much as his record will.

[Spankytoes 1736]

54 minutes ago, UTEX_ME said:

Was this 'encouraged' after the photo of Sam made the rounds our before the game? If before the game, ok cool Tom we saw how that worked out. And also this is lowkey putting 'blame' or 'shame' on the players and that's shitty af. 

Maybe it falls in the “we can fix it” bucket.

[RGBIII 22798]

2 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

 

Herman, on the other hand... that guy is a great recruiter and a terrible coach. 

I think hes great at hiring good recruiters, he himself isnt great at it

[closetohumping 17401]

1 minute ago, TexasRenegade said:

For the conversations on wins and losses.....I don't truly think it matters.  Maybe I am wrong....but I think Tom is gone period.  I think the powers that be are fed up with him and his act.  I think the players have largely tuned him out.  So even if the team somehow manages to finish with a winning record of some sort.  It will be through games like TCU and OU and Tech, which lets all be honest, no one would consider to be playing good football.

 

I think if the team was playing well and somehow we were getting "snakebit" kind of losses...it would be another matter.  But I think the ugly ugly football and the incoming bad news in recruiting are going to see Tom out the door as much as his record will.

I think he's gone even if he runs the table.  2-7 vs ou and TCU, that' tells the tale.

[TexasRenegade 2391]

1 minute ago, RGBIII said:

...it isn't

Yeah if CDC expects season tickets to go up next year with Tom still here I am deeply disappointed in his intelligence level.

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

Not when he gave Cardale Jones the start in 2015, he didn't. He should've tailored it to Cardale's strengths and focused on winning Zeke a Heisman. Instead he stuck with the JT Barrett offense and kept sticking Braxton Miller, who he was supposed to be turning into a WR, in at wildcat, breaking up Cardale's rhythm and stealing carries from Zeke. What made it worse was that, because of his injury, everyone knew Braxton couldn't throw the ball. 

Man, you're out of your element here, Donnie.

What Texas fans wouldn't give for minor quibbles on player utilization on the way to a 12-1 record and #4 ranking to be the primary gripes we have about our coaching over the last 5 years. Rough life, I'm sure.

[UT Lax 16]

Leaving is this mess? How long are we gonna blame shit that happened 7 plus years ago lol 

It created the domino effect for why we are here today. Had Mack Brown not used his Joe Jamail team of legal henchman to refuse to let Texas hire Saban, bc Saban would be even more successful than him, we would likely be what Alabama is today. Instead the chain of events of hiring the hot AAC coach of the day has led to the collapse of the program. Now hopefully we will not continue the same path and right the wrong first created by Mack Brown and hire the closest thing to Nick Saban, Urban Meyer!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

5 minutes ago, austintiger said:

Tom beats Baylor, football season is cancelled due to covid outbreak, tom stays because the team is "moving in the right direction", tom loses again to OU next year but you have a new qb who "just needs time", yada yada. you guys are stuck with this loser for at least 2 more years because I honestly think the AD doesn't care all that much about winning as long as the $$$ is still coming in.

[closetohumping 17401]

I think we need to give  CDC the benefit of the doubt.  He made two A hires in WBB and WSB.  Give him a chance to right the ship.

[Wally Pryor 5244]

10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

In my head, Mack Brown is a spiteful man who loves watching Texas struggle.

I'm probably wrong, but fuck him for leaving us this mess.

Brown absolutely loves seeing Texas struggle.   Spiteful, insecure, thin-skinned and passive aggressive, Brown couldn't handle seeing Texas be successful after he left. 

Why do you think he looks so damn happy these last 7+ years?

[closetohumping 17401]

2 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

Brown absolutely loves seeing Texas struggle.   Spiteful, insecure, thin-skinned and passive aggressive, Brown couldn't handle seeing Texas be successful after he left. 

Why do you think he looks so damn happy these last 7+ years?

This.  Please do not forgive Mack.  Think of it like a divorce.  We kicked him to the curb, you think he wants to see us do well?

[Mikey4 2476]

For the conversations on wins and losses.....I don't truly think it matters.  Maybe I am wrong....but I think Tom is gone period.  I think the powers that be are fed up with him and his act.  I think the players have largely tuned him out.  So even if the team somehow manages to finish with a winning record of some sort.  It will be through games like TCU and OU and Tech, which lets all be honest, no one would consider to be playing good football.
 
I think if the team was playing well and somehow we were getting "snakebit" kind of losses...it would be another matter.  But I think the ugly ugly football and the incoming bad news in recruiting are going to see Tom out the door as much as his record will.

It shouldn't matter at all. What matters is the big picture. Especially this year, we should be dominating the Techs and TCUs in blowout wins and beating OU by 2 possessions (at least). It's a mistake to act like everything is okay just because we may eek out a win against a team or two.

[RGBIII 22798]

2 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Man, you're out of your element here, Donnie.

What Texas fans wouldn't give for minor quibbles on player utilization on the way to a 12-1 record and #4 ranking to be the primary gripes we have about our coaching over the last 5 years. Rough life, I'm sure.

 

Two 8 win seasons in his career are the only subpar seasons he has had, one being his first year as a head coach...I would kill for this

 

 

[nineliveslost 2710]

It aint going to happen BUT if he wins a national championship at North Carolina I can guarantee you that he wont give 2 flying fucks about Texas. 

He has moved on and IF he wins the ACC somehow or goes to the playoff, oh man, thats just confirmation to him that he can coach and he can win. 

Texas needs to find the next guy , just like Mack found the next team. Move on from him , its past time 

[dcar00 14035]

34 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I would bet you a thousand Ameros that if the order was swapped, and Herman was the previous coach, he would have been canned in year 3, and Charlie would still be here in year 4 (never mind that Charlie's record was abysmally worse than even Mensa Tom's at this point).  I think the main reason that it seems they're "giving Herman all this time" is the pain of getting yet another new coach and regime.  Not that I thought CDC's ill-thought contract extension was all so wunnerful, but I think that's the main reason, period, and racism has nothing to do with the length of Terrible Tom vs. Clueless Charlie.  Not to mention that he did us "un"magic and turned South Florida into the dumpster fire that it currently is.  In any case, I have no doubt that Charlie would have 4 if not 5 years here if he were after Tommy Boy.

In any event, they both suck and haven't done squat except put poo all over what little tatters of Texas' reputation as a football school are left.

holy shit we'd be throwing on stop parties if Charlie had won a Sugar Bowl.

[WhatTheBuck 28712]

9 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Man, you're out of your element here, Donnie.

What Texas fans wouldn't give for minor quibbles on player utilization on the way to a 12-1 record and #4 ranking to be the primary gripes we have about our coaching over the last 5 years. Rough life, I'm sure.

When you're defending national champs and you let Michigan State win the division and wind up in the playoffs, it's kind of a big deal. Plus Zeke was the best player in the country that year and sort of got screwed. 

But I was just refuting an incorrect assertion. Urban runs more of a system offense. Jim Tressel was much more flexible in adapting his offense to the talent on hand. 

[Bill Lumbergh 7170]

When you're defending national champs and you let Michigan State win the division and wind up in the playoffs, it's kind of a big deal. Plus Zeke was the best player in the country that year and sort of got screwed. 

But I was just refuting an incorrect assertion. Urban runs more of a system offense. Jim Tressel was much more flexible in adapting his offense to the talent on hand. 

All fair, but just recognize that when your barometer of success/failure is making the playoffs, you've got some first class problems that we'd love to have.

 

Also, whatever system he runs sure as hell seems to work.

 

[UncleBuck 6446]

When you're defending national champs, and you let Michigan State win the division and wind up in the playoffs, it's kind of a big deal.

Agree tbh

[Burt Macklin 18998]

22 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Not when he gave Cardale Jones the start in 2015, he didn't. He should've tailored it to Cardale's strengths and focused on winning Zeke a Heisman. Instead he stuck with the JT Barrett offense and kept sticking Braxton Miller, who he was supposed to be turning into a WR, in at wildcat, breaking up Cardale's rhythm and stealing carries from Zeke. What made it worse was that, because of his injury, everyone knew Braxton couldn't throw the ball. 

All this proves is that not even Urban Meyer can overcome Tim Beck’s incompetence. 

[Wally Pryor 5244]

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

This.  Please do not forgive Mack.  Think of it like a divorce.  We kicked him to the curb, you think he wants to see us do well?

He wasn't kicked to the curb soon enough or, more accurately, didn't allow himself to be kicked to the curb soon enough.    Wonder why? 

We should now have three conference titles, and bigger hardware, post-Brown.  Instead, we're two inept coaches in with a team that continues to be a laughingstock in college football.  One that crows, emptily, about "being back" while flaunting all its resources, all its asset, all its bells and whistles.  But at the end of the day, it's a soft program that continues to fail, sometimes miserably, with its culture, coaching and entitled players.  The end result is that we have nothing substantive to show for years now and no real football product as a result. 

Yay for being near the top nationally in penalty yardage and social justice reform.   

 

.

[ruitxn 295]

10 minutes ago, Xian said:

One positive is that urban has showed the ability to mold his O to fit current players.  same can’t be said of many other coaches and probably a big reason why he has had such success at every stop. 

 

7 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Saban of today is still the coach of the #2 team in the country.  

Agree Urban brings tons more football acumen and leadership than anything we have seen in years.  Not even close.  I am not diminishing what Saban has accomplished and certainly he still has it.  I don’t think his current program is as dominate as it once was.  In my mind, the two great hires lately was Dabo at Clemson and Lincoln at gooners.  Something about getting started great, and young enough to build your own program and recruit at the highest level.  We certainly have every advantage to have a football program that should outclass and perform Bama or Clemson or any other program.  We have had two recent opportunities to make the hire that puts us back in the mix and we have failed miserably both times.  Urban is possibly a safe hire even at his age and certainly better than the last two phonies.  Personally, I  wish we could find that younger charismatic program builder.  That coach is out there,  but who it is is a totally different discussion.  Considering our failures,  the proven experienced winner may be the popular interim solution.

[David Dennison 18658]

3 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

He wasn't kicked to the curb soon enough or, more accurately, didn't allow himself to be kicked to the curb soon enough.    Wonder why? 

We should now have three conference titles, and bigger hardware, post-Brown.  Instead, we're two inept coaches in with a team that continues to be a laughingstock in college football.  One that crows, emptily, about "being back" while flaunting all its resources, all its asset, all its bells and whistles.  But at the end of the day, it's a soft program that continues to fail, sometimes miserably, with its culture, coaching and entitled players.  The end result is that we have nothing substantive to show for years now and no real football product as a result. 

Yay for being near the top nationally in penalty yardage and social justice reform.   

Because football is far down the list of priorities at the University of Texas.

I thought we all knew that.

[TexasRenegade 2391]

5 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

First question: does CDC want to fire Herman?

Second question: does CDC have to fire Herman?

I believe the answer to both is "no". We might not see it this way but there are tons of influential people close to the decision makers who see the COVID-truncated 2020 season as worthy of a mulligan (and the decision makers themselves might feel that way, too). CDC is not an "off with their heads!" type, he is averse to creating churn through change, and it would be easier on him and much cheaper if Herman worked out. Herman still meets all of the unwritten but ever-important "We're Texas" requirements for keeping up appearances. The kids win some games, we never get embarrassed on the scorboard, they don't get in trouble off the field, and there's not even a whiff of scandal around the program. Why, a lot of the kids are showing that they're leaders in the community!

Unless there's a total on-field collapse, there is nothing currently going on with this program that will get its coach fired. We all think the situation is totally unacceptable, but we're wrong. It's totally acceptable to our decision makers.

A) The total unfield collapse has been happening for the past 3 weeks, it's gaining momentum like a snowball.  That's the other thing about the Sad pic of Sam.  The team is done, they don't even care about each other anymore.  That isn't attacking them, but a team has each other's back, there was no one that was even aware enough that their star QB who just went Superman mode was standing out on the field for the eyes by himself?  The team is done.

 

B) Herman isn't Mack.  Mack had job security because the BMDs loved him and he catered to them.  He had job security because happy BMDs were easy for Dodds to deal with as AD and made his job easier.  The BMDs hate Herman and CDC is probably wishing he had canned him 11 months ago.  The support of Red and Jamail and Hicks and others was why Mack had his security even when he was getting mudholed by OU.  Again he was also beating the crap out of most every other team on his schedule at the time.  Herman is reviled by the BMDs and has been.....and he doesn't even have the ability to put on an entertaining blowout to teams that he should.

C) This covid is a mulligan year is a bunch of crap.  The BMDs are seeing other schools that are dealing with the same and in many cases worse shit from Covid and actually fielding a football team that looks like it has an idea of how you play the game of football.  Then they see their team go out and look like they are the 3 stooges out there.  BMDs have a lot of pride and they don't like being associated with this level of crap of a football team.  

 

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Totally agreed. However these things rarely happen on impatient fans’ timetable and it’d be surprising if we tank. Believe me I think he’s dead but he’s gonna have a dead cat bounce. 

Are we all at the point where we are hoping for a loss to Baylor?

[Hank_Hill 18491]

No. Fuck that school. 

[WhatTheBuck 28712]

9 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

All this proves is that not even Urban Meyer can overcome Tim Beck’s incompetence. 

I don't know if you're joking or just an idiot. Tim Beck had nothing to do with those decisions. It's always Urban's offense. Beck was just a convenient scapegoat. (Because Buckeye fans are idiots too.) Beck deserves whatever criticism he deserves but the buck stops with Urban, pun intended. No one ties his hands. JT was Urban's guy, Cardale wasn't. And there's nothing more Urban-y than a quick trigger on running Braxton in the wildcat. 

Beck is gone from Texas. Have you noticed huge changes in the offense?

[jdhorn92 1538]

44 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I think we need to give  CDC the benefit of the doubt.  He made two A hires in WBB and WSB.  Give him a chance to right the ship.

too bad we dont have women's football

[Wally Pryor 5244]

Just now, jdhorn92 said:

too bad we dont have women's football

You sure you wanna go there?

[phdhorn 6224]

1 minute ago, jdhorn92 said:

too bad we dont have women's football

Well, we kinda do.

[Thiefery 4969]

So BMDs hate that the fact they got in the ear of Mike Perrine and told him you have to hire Tom Herman?  But now they now really hate Tom, and CDC because of that?

 

Thought BMDs liked CDC?

[jinx 2635]

2 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

Imagine going 5 wide with Whittington, Moore, Smith, Eagles, and Schooler. 

I'm confused, you left out Brewer.  He has to be on the field.

Also, we didn't have spring practice, so this is virtually impossible.

[Asithappens 974]

...Here is how it should go. You fire Herman and hire urban within a couple of weeks.

 

Hey now, don't be like that. I'm fine with hiring Urban now and firing Tom within a couple of weeks. 

 

220, 221. Whatever it takes.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Asithappens

[CfRhTxStBobcats 600]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

I would bet you a thousand Ameros that if the order was swapped, and Herman was the previous coach, he would have been canned in year 3, and Charlie would still be here in year 4 (never mind that Charlie's record was abysmally worse than even Mensa Tom's at this point).  I think the main reason that it seems they're "giving Herman all this time" is the pain of getting yet another new coach and regime.  Not that I thought CDC's ill-thought contract extension was all so wunnerful, but I think that's the main reason, period, and racism has nothing to do with the length of Terrible Tom vs. Clueless Charlie.  Not to mention that he did us "un"magic and turned South Florida into the dumpster fire that it currently is.  In any case, I have no doubt that Charlie would have 4 if not 5 years here if he were after Tommy Boy.

In any event, they both suck and haven't done squat except put poo all over what little tatters of Texas' reputation as a football school are left.

Unless I've had it all wrong for years, I thought "playing the race card" is a term used when there actually is no racism but you have no other argument, hence the word playing. I don't think for one second CS was given any less time because he is Black, just as I don't think TH should be given another year for beating Georgia. Playing .500 football or slightly better in your 4th year should be enough to get you fired at UT, especially with very few skins on the wall.

Edited October 12, 2020 by CfRhTxStBobcats

[Dbeasy 14969]

All this proves is that not even Urban Meyer can overcome Tim Beck’s incompetence. 

Think about that too. He failed for urban and Herman still hired him.

[Happy Gilmore 1001]

7 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

So BMDs hate that the fact they got in the ear of Mike Perrine and told him you have to hire Tom Herman?  But now they now really hate Tom, and CDC because of that?

 

Thought BMDs liked CDC?

They don't hate CDC as much for his reluctance on doing something bout Herman. Based on what I've read It's more so his indeciveness on the whole EOT debacle. Hes hopped skipped and jumped around it rather than giving a straightforward answer. 

[Rimbo 25783]

1 hour ago, nineliveslost said:

It aint going to happen BUT if he wins a national championship at North Carolina I can guarantee you that he wont give 2 flying fucks about Texas. 

He has moved on and IF he wins the ACC somehow or goes to the playoff, oh man, thats just confirmation to him that he can coach and he can win. 

Texas needs to find the next guy , just like Mack found the next team. Move on from him , its past time 

He can coach and he can win. But he also left us with less talent when he left than what he found when he arrived. Strong's "Cake baked" nonsense was because the team he left behind, mediocre as it was, was still better than what Mack left us with.

Mack might've taken us to new heights, but he's also partially responsible for the low lows.

[mdmost 42865]

What if Tom gets 3 weeks to prepare?