Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]

[closetohumping 17438]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

Agreed, but oSu is also better than any teams remaining on our schedule, so we won't need as many breaks to win.

I still think we're going to lose 2 of 3 against WVU, KSU, ISU though.  And this weekend's game coming off a road upset of a Top 10 team, now with us as a ranked team, at home, against unranked but dangerous WVU team, sets up as a serious Tom Herman letdown special.

Just need 1

[Poe It Up 126]

9 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Inside Texas Scoop...good info here

  Hide contents

QUICK TEAM

On Saturday, we mentioned the players were still bought in. This group doesn’t play smart but they damn sure play hard, and we are seeing incremental improvement in some places.

As you can imagine, they were quite excited about the win and keeping their season’s goals alive. With West Virginia coming to town on Saturday, there’s the chance for another big win. WVU thrashed K-State and their D-line is going to give UT’s O-line fits. All of a sudden, given parity and a poor conference, WVU is a player for the conference.

A couple of notes:

- While he had a costly drop, Jake Smith also made some plays and reached the end zone. The hope is this gives him some confidence. He’s been quite disappointed with his season so far. He’s never really been known for drops so hopefully more targets and playing time will allow himself out of it.

- Keaontay Ingram’s ankle is the main injury concern on Saturday. He’s been in a boot. We have him as questionable.

- Brenden Schooler should return this week. The offense needs more reliable targets to emerge and he gives them another option.

- The main concern is the Stills brothers on the defensive line. They dominated last year, and given the offense’s problems they could be the difference this weekend. The Texas defense is going to have to play a strong game because the offense might not help much. The right side of the O-line has the offense hamstrung.

- There are some guys not seeing the field but it isn’t an indication of how the staff feels about them. Two that come to mind are Brayden Liebrock and Vernon Broughton. Hopefully they’re not overly frustrated. They could be playing more, especially Liebrock.

THEN AND NOW

The more things change, the more they stay the same. If you saw Tom Herman crowd surfing on a swell of players after Saturday‘s victory, I’m sure you were reminded of Charlie Strong doing the same.

Funny thing about the Strong crowd surfing — it wasn’t organic. The players were put up to it to show support for their embattled coach.

Some other things weren’t real from that era, either. Most notably: The players who threatened to protest in support of Strong if he was fired were put up to it by one of Strong’s friends in my line of work. These were younger, more impressionable players. The older players on the team caught wind of that and squashed it. While Strong was well-liked, most key players were done with him after year two and certainly after year three.

For all intents and purposes, Strong lost his job after the Oklahoma State game where the 'Pokes blocked three extra points and carved up the Horns secondary. That’s at least when the groundswell initially started and we spent as much time writing about Tom Herman as anything else. That was early October.

If the same fate befalls Tom Herman, his all intents and purposes game was TCU. Yes, not even OU. Given factors we’ve documented beyond wins and losses Herman had already lost most of his support.

The ‘now’ hasn’t changed much since I wrote about the situation last week, but I’ll use brackets to make amendments to the original now to offer my most recent info after the improbable Saturday victory.

The ‘then‘ will change from the end of the Mack Brown era to the end of the Strong era.

President then: Greg Fenves - Fenves knew what had needed to be done early in 2016 but there was a lot of concern over whether or not he’d make the call. I wasn’t as concerned — Texas had actually explored removing Strong after his second year. While some mention the Kansas loss as the deal breaker, at a minimum he was done after the West Virginia loss the week before. Along with an academic needing to make a major decision regarding the state’s highest paid employee, Fenves had another problem: a placeholder athletic director in Mike Perrin. Perrin, along with Strong, had previously required Fenves to jump on a private plane to help land an offensive coordinator from Tulsa. This brought great shame on the university; people in Japan have committed seppuku for less. From an administration standpoint, Texas was not in a good place to have a robust search.

While it was very likely Tom Herman would be the next head coach in October of 2016, Texas did reach out to Chris Petersen. Fenves must have stumbled onto one of DeLoss Dodds’ dossiers from 2010. Texas also reached out to David Shaw.

Herman was the consensus pick, and Fenves didn’t mess around when the time came. When LSU started to push heavily for Herman, Fenves did the same and made the hire. The school was not set up for a quality search. The chances were too great it would be another Korn Ferry debacle.

President now: Jay Hartzell - It’s Hartzell’s job now, but even his predecessor was done with Herman last December. It was Chris Del Conte who persuaded Greg Fenves to give Herman one more year. Hartzell has always been seen as sympathetic to the athletic and donor side, though I believe he‘d prefer to not be pigeonholed as such. That’s likely why he assigned Richard Reddick to run the historical review of The Eyes of Texas. If we learned anything from the Saban Saga, it’s to get a good understanding of the president’s office when significant changes need to be made. Simply put, Hartzell is open to hiring Urban Meyer.

[Even more simply put, Hartzell wants Meyer if a transition needs to be made]

Athletic Director then: Mike Perrin - Two key factors led to the Herman hire; one was the poor process that led to Charlie Strong, and the other was the poor process that led to Steve Patterson over Oliver Luck as athletic director. Luck was a popular figure with key donor support, but at the last minute a push was made for the prickly Patterson. This may still be a source of derision among donors, and it certainly was in real time. Said one donor to me at the time, “those guys should be black-balled from having influence.” Patterson was terrible and didn’t last long. Mike Perrin was a quick and easy fix and he took the assignment out of duty to the school he loves. After the handling of the OC hire less than a year earlier, he had little input in singing the next head coach.

Athletic Director now: Chris Del Conte - Del Conte has a great working relationship with Hartzell, as well as an okay but recently strained relationship with boosters. There’s one way to repair that relationship and restore the donations rolling in. This is the key difference in the two scenarios, well that and not having Powers involved: Given the financial impact of Covid-19 in conjunction with numerous capital projects, furloughs, and layoffs, the donors are needed much more than in 2013. They have the leverage to get things done, though I don’t get the sense Del Conte needs his arm twisted on this one. In less than a year, Herman has lost a lot of the support from the person who just helped oversee an expensive staff overhaul.

[Del Conte is the duck, calm above water but paddling like hell beneath the water line. He’s fielding calls and emails left and right. These calls don’t necessarily need to be made because he has a handle on the situation. The win in Stillwater was good for the program but it didn’t change anything]

Head coach then: Charlie Strong - There isn’t much to say here that hasn’t been written. He never should have been the head coach at Texas and I use the data of him at USF to make that assertion as anything else.

Head coach now: Tom Herman - Herman has none of the leverage or support from the administration Brown had in 2013. Try as I might, I can’t find any pockets of support for the embattled coach. He never cared much for politicking (hard to blame him) but it’s shortsighted to not create allies in a position such as his. I had two people this weekend speculate that even if he won out, he’d be on the hot seat. That’s hard to fathom, but given the situation, not all that hard to believe.

[The previous two sentences are still the case, but also heard, “he’ll trip up” and “he can’t handle success.” There’s a reason his teams are better as an underdog. Another negative for him is, everyone knows the conference is way down this year.]

BOR then - The BOR was resolute to sign off on whoever Fenves came up with as head coach.

BOR now - From my vantage, the BOR appears to be in lockstep with Del Conte, Hartzell, and the most influential boosters. I can’t speak knowledgeably on all of them. Typically some care about sports, and some don’t. The ones who care about football are like Hartzell and are open to the idea of Urban Meyer. This is a key point: the president, AD, and BOR are on the same exact page.

[Still the case. “There have been leadership voids in the past, but they’re in a good place with this president, athletic director, and BOR.”]

Boosters then - After the Saban fiasco, the Strong hire and tenure, and the Patterson hiring/firing, the boosters were quite jaded with Texas. I can’t tell you how frequently I’d receive some variation of “I don’t care.” Now, that’s not to say some key boosters didn’t help the Herman hire along the path, but booster interest was much lower than normal.

Boosters now - There is no such divide. The lines we have into both cities all favor hiring the strong, centralizing figure. You can add Austin to that group too.

[Del Conte has done a great job of re-engaging donor interest and they’re extremely engaged right now. This group has an Urban or bust mentality]

Result then - Knowing what we knew then, Fenves made the best hire he could have. The best indicator of the market is, LSU wanted Herman but when they couldn’t sign him they stuck with Ed Orgeron. Matt Rhule was hired in that same class, but nobody was calling for that and he probably would have split for the NFL even sooner.

Result now - It’s impossible to know what will happen, and there isn’t yet a job opening, but if UT doesn’t land its top target it won’t be for lack of effort and pulling out all the stops. It won’t be self-inflicted.

[Herman earned a big win on Saturday, and will be favored versus West Virginia, and maybe every game the rest of the way. If he wants to keep his job, he’s going to have to create success, then learn to handle it. He has not been consistently good at either. From the people I talk to, not much changed on Saturday. They don’t think the team is playing well (yard discrepancy was mentioned to me, as well as turnover battle) in general, plus the down conference is being accounted for. It’ll be tough for Herman to keep his job while being the tallest midget.]

From: @Gerry Hamilton

The win over Oklahoma State didn’t add any significant recruiting bounce, but it wasn’t expected to. The staff is ultra-focused on winning/team preparation right now with literally everything on the line.

If Texas should beat West Virginia Saturday, sitting at 5-2 with a three-game win streak and back inside the top 20 in the polls, you will see the staff go extremely hard on the recruiting trail with some potential momentum.

That’s not to say the staff isn’t in communication with key targets, as they are. But the last few weeks have been tough in messaging. More questions than answers for top targets.

Let’s go through some top targets and see where the Longhorns stand.

Shemar Turner, DE/T, DeSoto

Texas has been in communication since the win over Oklahoma State. Turner is still responsive and positive toward the staff. Those recruiting and close to Turner feel like Texas A&M is in a very good spot and the Aggies continued winning with the defensive line's performance only helps.

L.J. Johnson, RB, Cy-Fair

Texas also continues to receive consistent and positive feedback from the difference-maker. Again, Texas A&M is trending here from those recruiting Johnson. Unlike Shemar Turner’s recruitment in which those recruiting feel like Texas A&M is way out in front, Johnson is still more open.

Terrence Cooks, LB, Shadow Creek

This is a recruitment the Longhorns still feel pretty good about. The combination of education and football could win out over program adversity and questions. The current competition for Cooks isn’t lighting it up on the field, so that helps with Texas not having momentum on the trail.

Bryce Foster and Savion Byrd, OL

The duo remains in contact with Texas, but the Longhorns are not expected to win either battle currently.

Andrew Mukuba, S, Austin LBJ

Texas remains in contact with the Clemson commit, and that communication is being initiated both ways. Mukuba is not considered a potential flip candidate to Texas right now, but could be one to remember in December if key factors in his recruitment change.

The staff continues to evaluate cornerback prospects in the 2021 class. Lake Ridge’s Marvin Covington has offers from Miami and Houston, and Jay Valai and Chris Ash are in serious evaluation mode here. Klein Forest’s Ahmonte Watkins prefers running back or offense at the next level, so recruiting him as a pure athlete with a chance at running back first could be a potential road block for Texas.

From: @Justin Wells

CADE KLUBNIK

Texas head coach Tom Herman was so happy after UT’s win over No. 6 Oklahoma State, he offered local Westlake signal-caller Cade Klubnik on the way home from Stillwater.

At 6-foot-3 and 180 pounds, the 2022 quarterback holds 20+ offers, including Notre Dame, Auburn, North Carolina, and Georgia. But getting that call from UT was big.

“I’m looking for a great culture and people of the school," said Klubnik. "Somewhere I can grow as a person, the consistency of a football program of greatness, and a great education.”

After securing a 6A-DI state championship as a sophomore, he knows that expectations come with the success.

“We are 5-0 right now, and that’s great,” said Klubnik. “We're averaging 58 points a game. I'm really looking forward to Lake Travis last game of the season.”

Despite being only midway through his junior year, Klubnik already has a good idea of where he’s wanted.

“I would say Auburn, Georgia, Texas, UNC, and Clemson,” said Klubnik.

Growing up in a home full of Aggies, and having an uncle that played for UT, makes for some fun holiday events. After all that, he still sees himself open. If Texas A&M offered, I believe it would grab his attention. Texas definitely did.

“I think (Texas) will be up there for me,” Klubnik said. “I like their football program a lot and am excited to see how Coach Yurcich does in the future.”

Playing for Texas-Ex Todd Dodge and watching Westlake product Sam Ehlinger lead the Longhorns, Westlake has been very good to Texas and that could continue here.

TREVELL JOHNSON

At Arlington Martin, the defense is loaded with college prospects.

Texas offered 2022 OLB Trevell Johnson yesterday. The 6-foot-1, 200-pound three-star has the eyes of a number of programs, including Arkansas, Baylor, Ole Miss, and Texas Tech. However, the UT offer might mean a little more to Johnson.

“This one means a lot to me and the family," said Johnson. "It’s nothing but high regards for the coaches, (Texas) has been there, building this relationship since my sophomore year. It’s going to be pretty strong.”

He's got a teammate currently committed to UT's Class of 2021, Morice Blackwell. He also already knows what he wants in his future program.

“Good coaching, facilities, and just what it’s going to be like around campus," Johnson said. "I hear from Baylor and Texas Tech the most, and overall we have pretty good relationships.”

Johnson burst on the scene as a sophomore after tallying 99 tackles, 12 tackles for loss, one forced fumble and one safety in 2019. Now, a trip to the state’s capitol is something Johnson plans to do.

“I hope to get down (Austin) after this dead period ends,” Johnson said. “And finally get to see what it’s like in Austin.”

QUICK-HITTERS

- Billy Bowman Jr. to OU. Bad enough to lose him, but to play him for the next four years isn’t appealing either. Oklahoma is also pushing Denton Ryan teammate and UT pledge Ja'Tavion Sanders. There are some expecting his separation from the class, but he's still in the group.

- Jack Bech to LSU. It’s a family thing for the Bech’s and nobody keeps in-state talent in-state like LSU in Louisiana. Bech had told me last week how much he wanted to see Texas, but this kid wasn't leaving home. (throws quotes in the trash)

-Johnathan Brooks, Texas commit from Hallettsville, has been looking around of late. It's hard to know who's interested, but I know he's reached out to Texas A&M.

-JD Coffey, Texas pledge out of Kennedale, is hearing from a few schools, notably Oregon. But I'm told he's still solid to the Horns today.

 

See, this makes more sense. I mean, of course TCU should've been the nail in the coffin, they fucking suck and CDC should hate losing to his former employer.

[UncleBuck 6453]

19 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

-Johnathan Brooks, Texas commit from Hallettsville, has been looking around of late

WATCH OUT TOM YOUR THREE STAR RUNNING BACK IS LOOKING AROUND

[dcar00 14181]

33 minutes ago, TexasRenegade said:

I am sorry... but how?  Mackovic was a bit of an ass, but he at least built something. Herman not only doesn't build he gets worse every year. One conference championship for Herman(which aint gonna happen) doesn't overturn 3 conference championships for Mackovic.  Plus, JM's brand of football was still more enjoyable then THs.  Both give you bad defense but at JM had a functional offense and knew how to recruit an oline.

I am sorry but he went 6-5,5-5-1, and 4-7(with Ricky Williams mind you) in 3 of his 6 years.  He gets credit for recruiting Ricky.  he went up and down just like Herman is.

getting to the conf champ game in Big 12 is different.  you have to be 1 or 2.  Mackovic won a shitty South division in 96 and then pulled the big upset(Similar to Herman Georgia)

94 is whatever-its the most ridiculous "conference championship" we have.  95 and 96 were legit even if 95 was in a dying SWC.  Mackovic and Herman are cut from the same cloth.  the Fiesta Bowl and 97 proved 96 champ game was a bit of a fluke(thank you James and Priest).  He was an average coach just like Herman.

[ztejas 43418]

9 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

94 is whatever-its the most ridiculous "conference championship" we have. 

Yeah wasn't that the undefeated aggy year where they couldn't claim it because they were on probation? Just checked - there was also a 5 way tie for the conference title that year. Just fucking hilarious. Couldn't be more aggy that they can't claim even a conference title in their best modern season ever.

And that was post death penalty SMU. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by ztejas

[dcar00 14181]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah wasn't that the undefeated aggy year where they couldn't claim it because they were on probation?

And that was post death penalty SMU. 

and it was like a 4 way tie for "first"

[Todd Gack 432]

28 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Inside Texas Scoop...good info here

  Hide contents

[Herman earned a big win on Saturday, and will be favored versus West Virginia, and maybe every game the rest of the way. If he wants to keep his job, he’s going to have to create success, then learn to handle it. He has not been consistently good at either. From the people I talk to, not much changed on Saturday. They don’t think the team is playing well (yard discrepancy was mentioned to me, as well as turnover battle) in general, plus the down conference is being accounted for. It’ll be tough for Herman to keep his job while being the tallest midget.]

 

 

[Ricky Butler 2692]

57 minutes ago, Jersey Man10 said:

We are not winning out. The last 10 years have proved that.

But if the universe hated you, your team would definitely win out the one time you didn't want them to.

[bad_teammate 13194]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

Let's be clear here.

We didn't beat a Top 10 team on the road.

A Top 10 team proved itself unworthy by choking to an unranked us.

Exactly.

At the end of the day, it's Oklahoma State. It's a team full of players we didn't even offer and coaches who make half what ours make. I don't care if they're ranked #1 in some poll, we should beat that damned team.

[Bevo 13576]

I see absolutely no reason for waiting to hire Urban Meyer. Recruiting is dying. Fan interest is dying. Booster interest is dying. And the administration's power decreases with every week and every win. Tom is toast even if he wins every remaining game this year and waiting to fire only makes firing more difficult if he continues to win. There is absolutely no reason to be patient.

[C-Man 27214]

Yeah wasn't that the undefeated aggy year where they couldn't claim it because they were on probation? Just checked - there was also a 5 way tie for the conference title that year. Just fucking hilarious. Couldn't be more aggy that they can't claim even a conference title in their best modern season ever.
And that was post death penalty SMU. 

And Tech got the Cotton Bowl berth for being the conference team that hadn’t been in the longest amount of time. Pretty sure they’d never been and then they got shellacked by Keyshawn Johnson and SC.

[C-Man 27214]

I am sorry but he went 6-5,5-5-1, and 4-7(with Ricky Williams mind you) in 3 of his 6 years.  He gets credit for recruiting Ricky.  he went up and down just like Herman is.
getting to the conf champ game in Big 12 is different.  you have to be 1 or 2.  Mackovic won a shitty South division in 96 and then pulled the big upset(Similar to Herman Georgia)
94 is whatever-its the most ridiculous "conference championship" we have.  95 and 96 were legit even if 95 was in a dying SWC.  Mackovic and Herman are cut from the same cloth.  the Fiesta Bowl and 97 proved 96 champ game was a bit of a fluke(thank you James and Priest).  He was an average coach just like Herman.

Mackovic losing five games with the 1996 roster was borderline criminal

[PHLaggie 110]

2 hours ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

Pornstar Faye Reagan

Thanks! What a hottie!

Also wondering who is featured in the avatar of @BurntOrange&White 

[bad_teammate 13194]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I see absolutely no reason for waiting to hire Urban Meyer.

Herman just won and is 4-2. I don't think that's a good reason, of course, but from a PR perspective it makes a little more sense to wait until after the inevitable loss.

But yeah, if you can get Meyer then you get Meyer. I would be against firing Herman at 4-2 after a win just to announce Luke Fickell or something, but Meyer is a unicorn hire and you grab the damned unicorn the moment it is available.

[MoJames 8244]

I also find it interesting that those around me who usually are pumping as much sunshine as possible are very much in the leave it alone camp unless it is Urban.

So even those hardcore optimists on Herman are very much in on getting rid of him if it's Urban.

[wood 11225]

55 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

Inside Texas Scoop...good info here

  Hide contents

QUICK TEAM

On Saturday, we mentioned the players were still bought in. This group doesn’t play smart but they damn sure play hard, and we are seeing incremental improvement in some places.

As you can imagine, they were quite excited about the win and keeping their season’s goals alive. With West Virginia coming to town on Saturday, there’s the chance for another big win. WVU thrashed K-State and their D-line is going to give UT’s O-line fits. All of a sudden, given parity and a poor conference, WVU is a player for the conference.

A couple of notes:

- While he had a costly drop, Jake Smith also made some plays and reached the end zone. The hope is this gives him some confidence. He’s been quite disappointed with his season so far. He’s never really been known for drops so hopefully more targets and playing time will allow himself out of it.

- Keaontay Ingram’s ankle is the main injury concern on Saturday. He’s been in a boot. We have him as questionable.

- Brenden Schooler should return this week. The offense needs more reliable targets to emerge and he gives them another option.

- The main concern is the Stills brothers on the defensive line. They dominated last year, and given the offense’s problems they could be the difference this weekend. The Texas defense is going to have to play a strong game because the offense might not help much. The right side of the O-line has the offense hamstrung.

- There are some guys not seeing the field but it isn’t an indication of how the staff feels about them. Two that come to mind are Brayden Liebrock and Vernon Broughton. Hopefully they’re not overly frustrated. They could be playing more, especially Liebrock.

THEN AND NOW

The more things change, the more they stay the same. If you saw Tom Herman crowd surfing on a swell of players after Saturday‘s victory, I’m sure you were reminded of Charlie Strong doing the same.

Funny thing about the Strong crowd surfing — it wasn’t organic. The players were put up to it to show support for their embattled coach.

Some other things weren’t real from that era, either. Most notably: The players who threatened to protest in support of Strong if he was fired were put up to it by one of Strong’s friends in my line of work. These were younger, more impressionable players. The older players on the team caught wind of that and squashed it. While Strong was well-liked, most key players were done with him after year two and certainly after year three.

For all intents and purposes, Strong lost his job after the Oklahoma State game where the 'Pokes blocked three extra points and carved up the Horns secondary. That’s at least when the groundswell initially started and we spent as much time writing about Tom Herman as anything else. That was early October.

If the same fate befalls Tom Herman, his all intents and purposes game was TCU. Yes, not even OU. Given factors we’ve documented beyond wins and losses Herman had already lost most of his support.

The ‘now’ hasn’t changed much since I wrote about the situation last week, but I’ll use brackets to make amendments to the original now to offer my most recent info after the improbable Saturday victory.

The ‘then‘ will change from the end of the Mack Brown era to the end of the Strong era.

President then: Greg Fenves - Fenves knew what had needed to be done early in 2016 but there was a lot of concern over whether or not he’d make the call. I wasn’t as concerned — Texas had actually explored removing Strong after his second year. While some mention the Kansas loss as the deal breaker, at a minimum he was done after the West Virginia loss the week before. Along with an academic needing to make a major decision regarding the state’s highest paid employee, Fenves had another problem: a placeholder athletic director in Mike Perrin. Perrin, along with Strong, had previously required Fenves to jump on a private plane to help land an offensive coordinator from Tulsa. This brought great shame on the university; people in Japan have committed seppuku for less. From an administration standpoint, Texas was not in a good place to have a robust search.

While it was very likely Tom Herman would be the next head coach in October of 2016, Texas did reach out to Chris Petersen. Fenves must have stumbled onto one of DeLoss Dodds’ dossiers from 2010. Texas also reached out to David Shaw.

Herman was the consensus pick, and Fenves didn’t mess around when the time came. When LSU started to push heavily for Herman, Fenves did the same and made the hire. The school was not set up for a quality search. The chances were too great it would be another Korn Ferry debacle.

President now: Jay Hartzell - It’s Hartzell’s job now, but even his predecessor was done with Herman last December. It was Chris Del Conte who persuaded Greg Fenves to give Herman one more year. Hartzell has always been seen as sympathetic to the athletic and donor side, though I believe he‘d prefer to not be pigeonholed as such. That’s likely why he assigned Richard Reddick to run the historical review of The Eyes of Texas. If we learned anything from the Saban Saga, it’s to get a good understanding of the president’s office when significant changes need to be made. Simply put, Hartzell is open to hiring Urban Meyer.

[Even more simply put, Hartzell wants Meyer if a transition needs to be made]

Athletic Director then: Mike Perrin - Two key factors led to the Herman hire; one was the poor process that led to Charlie Strong, and the other was the poor process that led to Steve Patterson over Oliver Luck as athletic director. Luck was a popular figure with key donor support, but at the last minute a push was made for the prickly Patterson. This may still be a source of derision among donors, and it certainly was in real time. Said one donor to me at the time, “those guys should be black-balled from having influence.” Patterson was terrible and didn’t last long. Mike Perrin was a quick and easy fix and he took the assignment out of duty to the school he loves. After the handling of the OC hire less than a year earlier, he had little input in singing the next head coach.

Athletic Director now: Chris Del Conte - Del Conte has a great working relationship with Hartzell, as well as an okay but recently strained relationship with boosters. There’s one way to repair that relationship and restore the donations rolling in. This is the key difference in the two scenarios, well that and not having Powers involved: Given the financial impact of Covid-19 in conjunction with numerous capital projects, furloughs, and layoffs, the donors are needed much more than in 2013. They have the leverage to get things done, though I don’t get the sense Del Conte needs his arm twisted on this one. In less than a year, Herman has lost a lot of the support from the person who just helped oversee an expensive staff overhaul.

[Del Conte is the duck, calm above water but paddling like hell beneath the water line. He’s fielding calls and emails left and right. These calls don’t necessarily need to be made because he has a handle on the situation. The win in Stillwater was good for the program but it didn’t change anything]

Head coach then: Charlie Strong - There isn’t much to say here that hasn’t been written. He never should have been the head coach at Texas and I use the data of him at USF to make that assertion as anything else.

Head coach now: Tom Herman - Herman has none of the leverage or support from the administration Brown had in 2013. Try as I might, I can’t find any pockets of support for the embattled coach. He never cared much for politicking (hard to blame him) but it’s shortsighted to not create allies in a position such as his. I had two people this weekend speculate that even if he won out, he’d be on the hot seat. That’s hard to fathom, but given the situation, not all that hard to believe.

[The previous two sentences are still the case, but also heard, “he’ll trip up” and “he can’t handle success.” There’s a reason his teams are better as an underdog. Another negative for him is, everyone knows the conference is way down this year.]

BOR then - The BOR was resolute to sign off on whoever Fenves came up with as head coach.

BOR now - From my vantage, the BOR appears to be in lockstep with Del Conte, Hartzell, and the most influential boosters. I can’t speak knowledgeably on all of them. Typically some care about sports, and some don’t. The ones who care about football are like Hartzell and are open to the idea of Urban Meyer. This is a key point: the president, AD, and BOR are on the same exact page.

[Still the case. “There have been leadership voids in the past, but they’re in a good place with this president, athletic director, and BOR.”]

Boosters then - After the Saban fiasco, the Strong hire and tenure, and the Patterson hiring/firing, the boosters were quite jaded with Texas. I can’t tell you how frequently I’d receive some variation of “I don’t care.” Now, that’s not to say some key boosters didn’t help the Herman hire along the path, but booster interest was much lower than normal.

Boosters now - There is no such divide. The lines we have into both cities all favor hiring the strong, centralizing figure. You can add Austin to that group too.

[Del Conte has done a great job of re-engaging donor interest and they’re extremely engaged right now. This group has an Urban or bust mentality]

Result then - Knowing what we knew then, Fenves made the best hire he could have. The best indicator of the market is, LSU wanted Herman but when they couldn’t sign him they stuck with Ed Orgeron. Matt Rhule was hired in that same class, but nobody was calling for that and he probably would have split for the NFL even sooner.

Result now - It’s impossible to know what will happen, and there isn’t yet a job opening, but if UT doesn’t land its top target it won’t be for lack of effort and pulling out all the stops. It won’t be self-inflicted.

[Herman earned a big win on Saturday, and will be favored versus West Virginia, and maybe every game the rest of the way. If he wants to keep his job, he’s going to have to create success, then learn to handle it. He has not been consistently good at either. From the people I talk to, not much changed on Saturday. They don’t think the team is playing well (yard discrepancy was mentioned to me, as well as turnover battle) in general, plus the down conference is being accounted for. It’ll be tough for Herman to keep his job while being the tallest midget.]

From: @Gerry Hamilton

The win over Oklahoma State didn’t add any significant recruiting bounce, but it wasn’t expected to. The staff is ultra-focused on winning/team preparation right now with literally everything on the line.

If Texas should beat West Virginia Saturday, sitting at 5-2 with a three-game win streak and back inside the top 20 in the polls, you will see the staff go extremely hard on the recruiting trail with some potential momentum.

That’s not to say the staff isn’t in communication with key targets, as they are. But the last few weeks have been tough in messaging. More questions than answers for top targets.

Let’s go through some top targets and see where the Longhorns stand.

Shemar Turner, DE/T, DeSoto

Texas has been in communication since the win over Oklahoma State. Turner is still responsive and positive toward the staff. Those recruiting and close to Turner feel like Texas A&M is in a very good spot and the Aggies continued winning with the defensive line's performance only helps.

L.J. Johnson, RB, Cy-Fair

Texas also continues to receive consistent and positive feedback from the difference-maker. Again, Texas A&M is trending here from those recruiting Johnson. Unlike Shemar Turner’s recruitment in which those recruiting feel like Texas A&M is way out in front, Johnson is still more open.

Terrence Cooks, LB, Shadow Creek

This is a recruitment the Longhorns still feel pretty good about. The combination of education and football could win out over program adversity and questions. The current competition for Cooks isn’t lighting it up on the field, so that helps with Texas not having momentum on the trail.

Bryce Foster and Savion Byrd, OL

The duo remains in contact with Texas, but the Longhorns are not expected to win either battle currently.

Andrew Mukuba, S, Austin LBJ

Texas remains in contact with the Clemson commit, and that communication is being initiated both ways. Mukuba is not considered a potential flip candidate to Texas right now, but could be one to remember in December if key factors in his recruitment change.

The staff continues to evaluate cornerback prospects in the 2021 class. Lake Ridge’s Marvin Covington has offers from Miami and Houston, and Jay Valai and Chris Ash are in serious evaluation mode here. Klein Forest’s Ahmonte Watkins prefers running back or offense at the next level, so recruiting him as a pure athlete with a chance at running back first could be a potential road block for Texas.

From: @Justin Wells

CADE KLUBNIK

Texas head coach Tom Herman was so happy after UT’s win over No. 6 Oklahoma State, he offered local Westlake signal-caller Cade Klubnik on the way home from Stillwater.

At 6-foot-3 and 180 pounds, the 2022 quarterback holds 20+ offers, including Notre Dame, Auburn, North Carolina, and Georgia. But getting that call from UT was big.

“I’m looking for a great culture and people of the school," said Klubnik. "Somewhere I can grow as a person, the consistency of a football program of greatness, and a great education.”

After securing a 6A-DI state championship as a sophomore, he knows that expectations come with the success.

“We are 5-0 right now, and that’s great,” said Klubnik. “We're averaging 58 points a game. I'm really looking forward to Lake Travis last game of the season.”

Despite being only midway through his junior year, Klubnik already has a good idea of where he’s wanted.

“I would say Auburn, Georgia, Texas, UNC, and Clemson,” said Klubnik.

Growing up in a home full of Aggies, and having an uncle that played for UT, makes for some fun holiday events. After all that, he still sees himself open. If Texas A&M offered, I believe it would grab his attention. Texas definitely did.

“I think (Texas) will be up there for me,” Klubnik said. “I like their football program a lot and am excited to see how Coach Yurcich does in the future.”

Playing for Texas-Ex Todd Dodge and watching Westlake product Sam Ehlinger lead the Longhorns, Westlake has been very good to Texas and that could continue here.

TREVELL JOHNSON

At Arlington Martin, the defense is loaded with college prospects.

Texas offered 2022 OLB Trevell Johnson yesterday. The 6-foot-1, 200-pound three-star has the eyes of a number of programs, including Arkansas, Baylor, Ole Miss, and Texas Tech. However, the UT offer might mean a little more to Johnson.

“This one means a lot to me and the family," said Johnson. "It’s nothing but high regards for the coaches, (Texas) has been there, building this relationship since my sophomore year. It’s going to be pretty strong.”

He's got a teammate currently committed to UT's Class of 2021, Morice Blackwell. He also already knows what he wants in his future program.

“Good coaching, facilities, and just what it’s going to be like around campus," Johnson said. "I hear from Baylor and Texas Tech the most, and overall we have pretty good relationships.”

Johnson burst on the scene as a sophomore after tallying 99 tackles, 12 tackles for loss, one forced fumble and one safety in 2019. Now, a trip to the state’s capitol is something Johnson plans to do.

“I hope to get down (Austin) after this dead period ends,” Johnson said. “And finally get to see what it’s like in Austin.”

QUICK-HITTERS

- Billy Bowman Jr. to OU. Bad enough to lose him, but to play him for the next four years isn’t appealing either. Oklahoma is also pushing Denton Ryan teammate and UT pledge Ja'Tavion Sanders. There are some expecting his separation from the class, but he's still in the group.

- Jack Bech to LSU. It’s a family thing for the Bech’s and nobody keeps in-state talent in-state like LSU in Louisiana. Bech had told me last week how much he wanted to see Texas, but this kid wasn't leaving home. (throws quotes in the trash)

-Johnathan Brooks, Texas commit from Hallettsville, has been looking around of late. It's hard to know who's interested, but I know he's reached out to Texas A&M.

-JD Coffey, Texas pledge out of Kennedale, is hearing from a few schools, notably Oregon. But I'm told he's still solid to the Horns today.

 

"This group has an Urban or bust mentality"

What starts on Surly ...

[Rip76 4925]

We need more ninjas, stat.

[Macklemore 2876]

22 hours ago, ChemicalHorn said:

What about the talent compared to OU or TCU or ISU? Should they compete with them, Bob?
 

For an ivy leaguer you sure have a stupid fucking opinion on this one.

Which Ivy League school did he go to? He is giving me a SUNY-Ithaca or Brown vibe. Speaking of SUNY-Ithaca, Cornell, to the uninitiated, is there a better school cutdown than that? Cougar High is the only that comes close in my book.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Macklemore

[Bigbend1812 12915]

10 minutes ago, wood said:

"This group has an Urban or bust mentality"

What starts on Surly ...

...sharts on the world.

[Hank Chinaski 6314]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

But yeah, if you can get Meyer then you get Meyer. I would be against firing Herman at 4-2 after a win just to announce Luke Fickell or something, but Meyer is a unicorn hire and you grab the damned unicorn the moment it is available.

This is exactly right. Urban will coach again somewhere and he'll win a lot. It should be at Texas. These opportunities are rare. Tom Herman (who has already screwed up the season in which everything aligned in his favor) slopping together a few meaningless wins against mediocre teams should not be the thing that keeps it from happening. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Hank Chinaski

[RGBIII 22840]

[927 E. 41st 1124]

42 minutes ago, C-Man said:

 

Mackovic losing five games with the 1996 roster was borderline criminal

 

But he DID know what kind of wine went with an ASS WHIPPING!

[UncleBuck 6453]

Mackovic talk not going away. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by UncleBuck

[WinningIsHard 4029]

Those 9.95ers really know how to fuck a fan bases day up. That article said urban is coming and he's not coming all at the same fuckin time. They've gotten all the way to him reaching out to potential assistant coaches but nothing concrete yet. If urban meyer has more of a soul left than these low life bottom feeding pieces of shit then give that mother fucker a burnt orange polo and a sign that says fuck randolp duke to wave around. 

[JPETERMAN 111]

9 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

Mackovic talk not going away. 

Mackovic came to give a guest speech in my blowoff "coaching" class I took Pass/Fail my senior year.  I was the only one not taking notes on everything he said, which clearly pissed him off.  I was paying attention, just not sucking up and acting like every word he said was gospel.  He was talking about how all different sides of the team had to all pull equal weight to be successful.  Then he tried to call me out and asked me what kind of triangle has all 3 of it's angles the same.  I said equilateral.  He smiles big in a gotcha moment and is like NOPE.  Asks 2 other people next to me and they are both like, I was going to say equilateral too.  He goes, nope.  Isosceles.  He got fired shortly thereafter.  Made me happy.  I'll be happy when Herman is gone too.  Arrogant people that think they know everything, talk down to people, and don't learn from their mistakes or harness their ego usually get what they deserve in the end.  Ironic he had the guest speaker in recently  to talk to the team about how ego is the enemy.  If he could have checked his ego at the door, and not been so stubborn, this might have turned out differently for him.   

[anacardo 217]

21 hours ago, orangecat92 said:

Cdc wants to preserve his reputation, I presume, as an ad that makes excellent hires.  If we finish 7 and 3 or worse and Tom comes back, I think it will be because overtures were made and Urban didn’t agree.  No extensions or raises, nothing during offseason, and next year we go 6 and 6 or whatever, and buyouts for everyone go down.  

This is copying a previous event in our history.  After the 1984 freedom bowl massacre that nobody was interested in, everybody in Austin knew Fred needed to go, just a matter of time.  Our leaders waited two more years to make a move.  

When did everybody in Austin know Tom needed to go?  I think it was that moment in Dallas this year, when he decided to go to ot. Instead of trying to win the game in regulation.  Some people are saying this is the worst ou team in 20 years.

i don’t expect leadership to wait 2 years, but it would not surprise me to see a one year wait.  

Kicking for one vs going for two at the end of the fourth was incorrect but understandable.  Kicking in the 2nd OT was indefensible.

[closetohumping 17438]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I go on wins and losses and not olines. Herman is better. No way Herman would have a 4-7 season. You’re making me defend Herman, but Mackovic was not good. 

Yep, it's like saying but osu had four turnovers and we have more talent.  Who's responsible for both?  I hope I don't have to defend Herm again

[Deej 76759]

Herman will string together a few wins and then go full Tom Herman. Relax everyone. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah I think he still pulls off 6-4.  But nobody knows what the bowl game scene is gonna be because we are gonna be in the crest of another bad wave and travel restrictions to far away places.  I don’t think he has a Top 15 upset in December to save his ass.  

[closetohumping 17438]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah I think he still pulls off 6-4.  But nobody knows what the bowl game scene is gonna be because we are gonna be in the crest of another bad wave and travel restrictions to far away places.  I don’t think he has a Top 15 upset in December to save his ass.  

Pull off 6-4?  That's a firing.  He needs to pull off 8-2 and a title to stay

[ConferenceRoom 6141]

27 minutes ago, JPETERMAN said:

Mackovic came to give a guest speech in my blowoff "coaching" class I took Pass/Fail my senior year.  I was the only one not taking notes on everything he said, which clearly pissed him off.  I was paying attention, just not sucking up and acting like every word he said was gospel.  He was talking about how all different sides of the team had to all pull equal weight to be successful.  Then he tried to call me out and asked me what kind of triangle has all 3 of it's angles the same.  I said equilateral.  He smiles big in a gotcha moment and is like NOPE.  Asks 2 other people next to me and they are both like, I was going to say equilateral too.  He goes, nope.  Isosceles.  He got fired shortly thereafter.  Made me happy.  I'll be happy when Herman is gone too.  Arrogant people that think they know everything, talk down to people, and don't learn from their mistakes or harness their ego usually get what they deserve in the end.  Ironic he had the guest speaker in recently  to talk to the team about how ego is the enemy.  If he could have checked his ego at the door, and not been so stubborn, this might have turned out differently for him.   

How much did you give Kramer for this one?

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, it’s a firing.  My point was he can still finish 6-4 and the lack of a big bowl game win to continue to fool people, he’s out.  I’ve got a 200+ Neg rep points since 2017 just on Herman because I thought he was a bad hire.  

[RGBIII 22840]

I think he goes full turtle this saturday. Morning game off a big win, WVU defense seems pretty salty and there is zero chance we have another no turnover game...I bet we have a couple turnovers and their defensive line is going to eat us alive...I fear for Sam honestly, those Stills brothers are big time

[horn_of_the_morning 978]

Post OU debacle was the best time to fire him. How we gave him an out. He may well win this shitty conference and doom us for the next 5 years.

[closetohumping 17438]

2 minutes ago, horn_of_the_morning said:

Post OU debacle was the best time to fire him. How we gave him an out. He may well win this shitty conference and doom us for the next 5 years.


 

+1.  Tom, we're not mathematically out of it but you ain't winning this conference.

[UncleBuck 6453]

2 minutes ago, horn_of_the_morning said:

Post OU debacle was the best time to fire him. How we gave him an out.

I don't disagree, but I just doubt everyone was in line and on board soon enough for that to happen. 

[closetohumping 17438]

4 minutes ago, RGBIII said:

I think he goes full turtle this saturday. Morning game off a big win, WVU defense seems pretty salty and there is zero chance we have another no turnover game...I bet we have a couple turnovers and their defensive line is going to eat us alive...I fear for Sam honestly, those Stills brothers are big time

Does WVA have any talent?  Can they throw a uniform on David Sills? 

[KYHorn 17029]

Vance Bedford is in touch with CDC, for some reason. His twitter is private so here's the text:

Had the opportunity to speak with CDC. He is a class man and a leader. The program is in great hands. He will do the right thing for the athletes and the program. It has been along time but stay patient HookEm

[UncleBuck 6453]

1 minute ago, KYHorn said:

Vance Bedford is in touch with CDC, for some reason. His twitter is private so here's the text:

Had the opportunity to speak with CDC. He is a class man and a leader. The program is in great hands. He will do the right thing for the athletes and the program. It has been along time but stay patient HookEm

wasn't expecting Vance to be the new HC but wow here we are.

Edited November 2, 2020 by UncleBuck

[JPETERMAN 111]

11 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

How much did you give Kramer for this one?

$9.95

[RGBIII 22840]

5 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

I don't disagree, but I just doubt everyone was in line and on board soon enough for that to happen. 

Also hard to cut him without a yes from CUM or at least some advanced talks...definitely should have been after OU with the bye

[canadianhorn21 963]

1 minute ago, KYHorn said:

Vance Bedford is in touch with CDC, for some reason. His twitter is private so here's the text:

Had the opportunity to speak with CDC. He is a class man and a leader. The program is in great hands. He will do the right thing for the athletes and the program. It has been along time but stay patient HookEm

"get on board, or get out the way!"

[Guest Lobo]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Yeah I’m sure you said something weird in those posts. 

And I’m quite sure you have an awkward database of said posts.
 But yes, when I said “pull off”, I simply meant he’s doing poorly right now but can still likely clutch two more wins from the jaws of desperation.  Now if we get embarrassed by WVU at home, maybe he leaves early.  But assuming we sneak out another ugly win, we have a bye week, then Kansas (let’s get nuts and assume we pull that out as well).   What’s the point of firing him after we lost to ISU after Thanksgiving.  Unless that’s some bizarre caveat of our new hire, that he’s announced the day after the KSU game.  I don’t think bowl games are gonna happen, but maybe.

anyway, as y’all have said, maybe an ugly loss to WVU but otherwise, I think he’s here until early December.  Unfortunately.  Happy to see it go another way

[Gene Parmesan 4005]

Is it insider info that his only out is to win the conference, or is that just consensus assumption because you don't fire a coach that just won the conference? 

[UncleBuck 6453]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Is it insider info that his only out is to win the conference, or is that just consensus assumption because you don't fire a coach that just won the conference? 

the latter

[ousux 5597]

Still need a new coach.

Luckily Herman still has time for one of his signature games to remind everyone why.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

More than ample time, several perennial landmines dead ahead

[utee94 15811]

10 minutes ago, ousux said:

On 11/1/2020 at 1:25 AM, Brothahorn said:

Still need a new coach.

Luckily Herman still has time for one of his signature games to remind everyone why.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

More than ample time, several perennial landmines dead ahead

Two out of these three lie in wait:

[ousux 5597]

We aren't gonna whiff on another chance at a top 2 coach are we?

This year both USC and meatchicken could have openings at head corch, we can't afford to be late on this one

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

25 minutes ago, UncleBuck said:

wasn't expecting Vance to be the new HC but wow here we are.

Who’d have thunk that Vance Bedford would come in post Manny and proceed to field consecutive worst ever defenses just two years removed from _iaz accomplishing the same feat?

Edited November 2, 2020 by Bobby_Batronic

[Deej 76759]

28 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Vance Bedford is in touch with CDC, for some reason. His twitter is private so here's the text:

Had the opportunity to speak with CDC. He is a class man and a leader. The program is in great hands. He will do the right thing for the athletes and the program. It has been along time but stay patient HookEm

I'm not falling for the Vance Bedford "Get on the train!" again.